We were wrong... it's not the arm of flesh!

[Gadianton Slayer]

Spoiler

[sarc] Guys, they aren't telling us to trust in a man, they're telling us to trust in the Lord! Brigham Young stated that "the Lord Almighty leads this Church", and who leads the church today? Nelson! That means they are one and the same! Nelson is simply the Lord in human form, leading the church. That's why he cannot lead us astray! [/sarc]

Actually, I just wanted to chat about Rasband's talk. Read/watch it here. I'm seriously wondering what some of you think about certain statements.

He begins by giving us the "things of [his] soul", which consists of 7 points. I wish to point some things out and ask questions about the last one. I'm genuinely curious to see if I'm reading this wrong... because it sounds bizarre.

• Seventh, follow God’s living prophet. This may be seventh on my list of things, but it is at the top of my mind in terms of its importance today.

He very clearly states that this is the most important of the things on his list today. What are those other things?

1. love God the Father and Jesus Christ, our Savior.
2. Love thy neighbour.
3. love yourself.
4. keep the commandments.
5. always be worthy to attend the temple.
6. be joyful and cheerful.

Am I interpreting his meaning incorrectly, or did he just say that it's more important to follow "the prophet" than to do those things?

Then, speaking to the young woman, he says:

• She wanted to know what things matter most. “Follow the living prophet,” I said then and I emphasize again today.

So following "the prophet" matters most?

Then another never lead astray statement...

• I promise that as you listen and follow their counsel, you will never be led astray. Never!

Follow their counsel... what counsel? They counseled us to take the vaxxeen. That counsel? I feel like their statements are so obviously designed to confuse the Hell out of the members, never giving clear answers but general ideas.

Another example of that is in his next paragraph:

• when President Nelson speaks, he speaks for the Lord.

Does Nelson always speak for the Lord? Or only sometimes? This seems to say the first, that Nelson speaks for the Lord, period.

He then gives us the example of Naaman, saying:

• The account of Naaman reminds us of the risk of picking and choosing the parts of prophetic counsel that fit our thinking, our expectations, or today’s norms.

What I hear: "you shouldn't pick and choose what Nelson tells you to do, you need to just do it"... am I wrong? Also, isn't it interesting that he uses a story about healing??? No coincidence IMO...

What?

• The most important words we can hear, ponder, and follow are those revealed through our living prophet.

What about the words of Christ? "Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do." (2 Nephi 32:3)

....WHAT?

• it is critical to realize that his [Nelson's] clear direction will shield us all from the deceit, craftiness, and secular ways gaining momentum in the world today.

Do you think that wearing a mask and getting jabbed is shielding us from the deceit, craftiness, and all the other crap in the world today?

Come on... I seriously think that his entire talk was meant to tell all of the members to get in line and listen to Nelson no matter what he says. That it is literally the most important thing we can do today.

I don't get how people don't see an issue with this... help me out.

[Mindfields]

Rasband's a brown noser and certainly church broke. They're all a bunch of suck ups.

[Mamabear]

I listened to his talk during conference and thought it was false. Philosophies of men. The work of God is not frustrated but the work of man is.

[Robin Hood]

Maybe Rasband is hoping to be chosen to serve on the first presidency when Oaks ascends to the throne.

[TruthSeeker77]

Seriously. Get off his jock, Rasband.

[keeprunning]

Follow the prophet is only a trigger for me when I think of people thinking that the vaccine statement was something they need to follow. But when my mind is normal, when I think of them saying to follow the prophet I think of the normal sermons they give in conference. Things like: how to organize your life to follow Christ, and go to the temple, and receive the priesthood, and search the scriptures. Best not to overcomplicate things and give church leaders so much power over our lives. Just listen to their good council and let it be a reminder of things you already know from studying the scriptures.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Follow the prophet is only a trigger for me when I think of people thinking that the vaccine statement was something they need to follow. But when my mind is normal, when I think of them saying to follow the prophet I think of the normal sermons they give in conference. Things like: how to organize your life to follow Christ, and go to the temple, and receive the priesthood, and search the scriptures. Best not to overcomplicate things and give church leaders so much power over our lives. Just listen to their good council and let it be a reminder of things you already know from studying the scriptures.

The problem comes when we feel their statements and doctrines contradict the scriptures that they ask us to study.

[keeprunning]

A problem for some. I've made a choice to stay in the church and ride it out. All church members and all church leaders since the beginning have given their own interpretations and opinions that imo are wrong. Including myself. I don't let it get to me. I tuck it away and try to keep learning.

[Gadianton Slayer]

A problem for some. I've made a choice to stay in the church and ride it out. All church members and all church leaders since the beginning have given their own interpretations and opinions that imo are wrong. Including myself. I don't let it get to me. I tuck it away and try to keep learning.

As long as you stay close to the Spirit and aren’t afraid to admit when someone is wrong, that’s good many people don’t though. They believe the things outlined in Rasband’s talk and it shows.

[Subcomandante]

Out of all the talks I found Rasband to be the worst one.

[keeprunning]

I don't see much wrong with his talk. I don't read into it that much. It depends how you choose to look at it.

[Gadianton Slayer]

I don't see much wrong with his talk. I don't read into it that much. It depends how you choose to look at it.

How else do you interpret the statements I quoted? And do you agree with them?

[keeprunning]

I interpret it that he is saying that a prophet will tell you to love the Lord and do that list he gave anyway, so listen to the prophet.

[Gadianton Slayer]

I interpret it that he is saying that a prophet will tell you to love the Lord and do that list he gave anyway, so listen to the prophet.

Ok, we definitely don't see that the same way. I just caution you in listening to the man, that's all

[InfoWarrior82]

I interpret it that he is saying that a prophet will tell you to love the Lord and do that list he gave anyway, so listen to the prophet.

What would you say to a member who insists that it means that God is telling you to get jabbed through the prophet?

[JustDan]

Actually, I just wanted to chat about Rasband's talk. Read/watch it here. I'm seriously wondering what some of you think about certain statements.

He begins by giving us the "things of [his] soul", which consists of 7 points. I wish to point some things out and ask questions about the last one. I'm genuinely curious to see if I'm reading this wrong... because it sounds bizarre.

• Seventh, follow God’s living prophet. This may be seventh on my list of things, but it is at the top of my mind in terms of its importance today.

He very clearly states that this is the most important of the things on his list today. What are those other things?

1. love God the Father and Jesus Christ, our Savior.
2. Love thy neighbour.
3. love yourself.
4. keep the commandments.
5. always be worthy to attend the temple.
6. be joyful and cheerful.

Am I interpreting his meaning incorrectly, or did he just say that it's more important to follow "the prophet" than to do those things?

I'd say you are interpreting it incorrectly. From what you have reported, he hasn't said following the prophet is more important than any of those on the list. His words "but it is at the top of my mind in terms of its importance today" indicate that as he was preparing to address the people, the matter of following the Prophet was on his mind more than anything. That's normal behaviour. When you think about a topic, a particular point may stand out to you the most and you want to be sure you will focus on it. It doesn't mean that it is more important than anything else, but that it is especially important for your focus.

Do you really think he is literally saying that following the prophet is more important than loving God and keeping the commandments?

On the other matter, he's not accurate to say that a Prophet will never lead us astray.... but what do you really want him to say?? How can he possibly explain WHEN a Prophet is speaking by the Lord and WHEN he is speaking as a man. Can anyone explain that? Do you really expect our church leaders to shoot themselves in both feet?

It's the same reason why the church paints a pretty picture about everything. They have to pretend that all is rosy. I don't like it, but I accept it. If I was to stand up in a church lesson and explain what I have found from my own studies into Joseph Smith, I know many members would lose their faith. So I don't. Some people are too simple or too shallow, that to delve into truth would shatter them. These people would be destroyed if they realised that a Prophet is not always being led by God and that there was a possibility he could be wrong !!! It would be too much for them to be able to determine when he is led by the Spirit and when he is not. etc. etc.

I do feel that you are looking at things too negatively. I've seen this repeatedly in your topics across the forum.

[Gadianton Slayer]

I'd say you are interpreting it incorrectly. From what you have reported, he hasn't said following the prophet is more important than any of those on the list. His words "but it is at the top of my mind in terms of its importance today" indicate that as he was preparing to address the people, the matter of following the Prophet was on his mind more than anything. That's normal behaviour. When you think about a topic, a particular point may stand out to you the most and you want to be sure you will focus on it. It doesn't mean that it is more important than anything else, but that it is especially important for your focus.

Thanks, but I disagree with your interpretation. That's a really far stretch for me.

Do you really think he is literally saying that following the prophet is more important than loving God and keeping the commandments?

Yes.

On the other matter, he's not accurate to say that a Prophet will never lead us astray.... but what do you really want him to say?? How can he possibly explain WHEN a Prophet is speaking by the Lord and WHEN he is speaking as a man. Can anyone explain that? Do you really expect our church leaders to shoot themselves in both feet?

I want him to stand up and say "you will hear truths and falsehoods in this general conference and from us as your leaders, we will do our best but you must rely on the Spirit to discern." That's what they should say, and what I feel they would if they were true prophets. This is what Christ taught in 2 Nephi 28:31, to say that they cannot lead us astray and that we must listen to them is an anti-Christ doctrine.

It's the same reason why the church paints a pretty picture about everything. They have to pretend that all is rosy. I don't like it, but I accept it. If I was to stand up in a church lesson and explain what I have found from my own studies into Joseph Smith, I know many members would lose their faith. So I don't. Some people are too simple or too shallow, that to delve into truth would shatter them. These people would be destroyed if they realised that a Prophet is not always being led by God and that there was a possibility he could be wrong !!! It would be too much for them to be able to determine when he is led by the Spirit and when he is not. etc. etc.

Then they are lazy and uninformed. Help them understand the scriptures and teachings of Christ, and help them rid their trust in a man.

I do feel that you are looking at things too negatively. I've seen this repeatedly in your topics across the forum.

Sometimes I do. But the truth isn't always happy.

[JD21]

Spoiler

[sarc] Guys, they aren't telling us to trust in a man, they're telling us to trust in the Lord! Brigham Young stated that "the Lord Almighty leads this Church", and who leads the church today? Nelson! That means they are one and the same! Nelson is simply the Lord in human form, leading the church. That's why he cannot lead us astray! [/sarc]

Actually, I just wanted to chat about Rasband's talk. Read/watch it here. I'm seriously wondering what some of you think about certain statements.

He begins by giving us the "things of [his] soul", which consists of 7 points. I wish to point some things out and ask questions about the last one. I'm genuinely curious to see if I'm reading this wrong... because it sounds bizarre.

• Seventh, follow God’s living prophet. This may be seventh on my list of things, but it is at the top of my mind in terms of its importance today.

He very clearly states that this is the most important of the things on his list today. What are those other things?

1. love God the Father and Jesus Christ, our Savior.
2. Love thy neighbour.
3. love yourself.
4. keep the commandments.
5. always be worthy to attend the temple.
6. be joyful and cheerful.

Am I interpreting his meaning incorrectly, or did he just say that it's more important to follow "the prophet" than to do those things?

Then, speaking to the young woman, he says:

• She wanted to know what things matter most. “Follow the living prophet,” I said then and I emphasize again today.

So following "the prophet" matters most?

Then another never lead astray statement...

• I promise that as you listen and follow their counsel, you will never be led astray. Never!

Follow their counsel... what counsel? They counseled us to take the vaxxeen. That counsel? I feel like their statements are so obviously designed to confuse the Hell out of the members, never giving clear answers but general ideas.

Another example of that is in his next paragraph:

• when President Nelson speaks, he speaks for the Lord.

Does Nelson always speak for the Lord? Or only sometimes? This seems to say the first, that Nelson speaks for the Lord, period.

He then gives us the example of Naaman, saying:

• The account of Naaman reminds us of the risk of picking and choosing the parts of prophetic counsel that fit our thinking, our expectations, or today’s norms.

What I hear: "you shouldn't pick and choose what Nelson tells you to do, you need to just do it"... am I wrong? Also, isn't it interesting that he uses a story about healing??? No coincidence IMO...

What?

• The most important words we can hear, ponder, and follow are those revealed through our living prophet.

What about the words of Christ? "Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do." (2 Nephi 32:3)

....WHAT?

• it is critical to realize that his [Nelson's] clear direction will shield us all from the deceit, craftiness, and secular ways gaining momentum in the world today.

Do you think that wearing a mask and getting jabbed is shielding us from the deceit, craftiness, and all the other crap in the world today?

Come on... I seriously think that his entire talk was meant to tell all of the members to get in line and listen to Nelson no matter what he says. That it is literally the most important thing we can do today.

I don't get how people don't see an issue with this... help me out.

Great post. Two comments:

1. He should have been struck by a bolt of lightening.

2. Ever seen the movie "Stepford Wives?" I think we've become a "Stepford Church." Since Nelson believes that the long held nickname "mormon" is such an abomination, perhaps we need a new one. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, aka "The Stepford Church," where logical thinking and personal revelation is not required (nor welcomed.)

There are relatively few who seem to be awake to our "awful situation." They just can't seem to grasp that the prophet could be other than a prophet of God. Rasband is following the long held "doctrine" of following the prophet, no matter what. He can't be wrong. God would remove him from the earth if he ever tried to lead us astray. So, don't worry. Get your shots, be happy. Enjoy the lights on temple square- those of you who have obeyed the prophet. You know, the righteous ones. And don't forget to tithe to the corporation, oops, I mean church.

[JD21]

Rasband's a brown noser and certainly church broke. They're all a bunch of suck ups.

I think many are - Stake President and "above."

[Gadianton Slayer]

Spoiler

[sarc] Guys, they aren't telling us to trust in a man, they're telling us to trust in the Lord! Brigham Young stated that "the Lord Almighty leads this Church", and who leads the church today? Nelson! That means they are one and the same! Nelson is simply the Lord in human form, leading the church. That's why he cannot lead us astray! [/sarc]

Actually, I just wanted to chat about Rasband's talk. Read/watch it here. I'm seriously wondering what some of you think about certain statements.

He begins by giving us the "things of [his] soul", which consists of 7 points. I wish to point some things out and ask questions about the last one. I'm genuinely curious to see if I'm reading this wrong... because it sounds bizarre.

• Seventh, follow God’s living prophet. This may be seventh on my list of things, but it is at the top of my mind in terms of its importance today.

He very clearly states that this is the most important of the things on his list today. What are those other things?

1. love God the Father and Jesus Christ, our Savior.
2. Love thy neighbour.
3. love yourself.
4. keep the commandments.
5. always be worthy to attend the temple.
6. be joyful and cheerful.

Am I interpreting his meaning incorrectly, or did he just say that it's more important to follow "the prophet" than to do those things?

Then, speaking to the young woman, he says:

• She wanted to know what things matter most. “Follow the living prophet,” I said then and I emphasize again today.

So following "the prophet" matters most?

Then another never lead astray statement...

• I promise that as you listen and follow their counsel, you will never be led astray. Never!

Follow their counsel... what counsel? They counseled us to take the vaxxeen. That counsel? I feel like their statements are so obviously designed to confuse the Hell out of the members, never giving clear answers but general ideas.

Another example of that is in his next paragraph:

• when President Nelson speaks, he speaks for the Lord.

Does Nelson always speak for the Lord? Or only sometimes? This seems to say the first, that Nelson speaks for the Lord, period.

He then gives us the example of Naaman, saying:

• The account of Naaman reminds us of the risk of picking and choosing the parts of prophetic counsel that fit our thinking, our expectations, or today’s norms.

What I hear: "you shouldn't pick and choose what Nelson tells you to do, you need to just do it"... am I wrong? Also, isn't it interesting that he uses a story about healing??? No coincidence IMO...

What?

• The most important words we can hear, ponder, and follow are those revealed through our living prophet.

What about the words of Christ? "Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do." (2 Nephi 32:3)

....WHAT?

• it is critical to realize that his [Nelson's] clear direction will shield us all from the deceit, craftiness, and secular ways gaining momentum in the world today.

Do you think that wearing a mask and getting jabbed is shielding us from the deceit, craftiness, and all the other crap in the world today?

Come on... I seriously think that his entire talk was meant to tell all of the members to get in line and listen to Nelson no matter what he says. That it is literally the most important thing we can do today.

I don't get how people don't see an issue with this... help me out.

Great post. Two comments:

1. He should have been struck by a bolt of lightening.

2. Ever seen the movie "Stepford Wives?" I think we've become a "Stepford Church." Since Nelson believes that the long held nickname "mormon" is such an abomination, perhaps we need a new one. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, aka "The Stepford Church," where logical thinking and personal revelation is not required (nor welcomed.)

There are relatively few who seem to be awake to our "awful situation." They just can't seem to grasp that the prophet could be other than a prophet of God. Rasband is following the long held "doctrine" of following the prophet, no matter what. He can't be wrong. God would remove him from the earth if he ever tried to lead us astray. So, don't worry. Get your shots, be happy. Enjoy the lights on temple square- those of you who have obeyed the prophet. You know, the righteous ones. And don't forget to tithe to the corporation, oops, I mean church.

Umm....

Yeah, you’re totally right

I’ve never seen the movie, may have to now. Seems to completely fit the bill.

People like to be comfortable I’m sure in all ages there have been those who would rather listen to someone then seek answers for themselves. It’s a lazy doctrine, and is literally damning (stopping their progression).

I’m not going to argue the validity of the Mentinah Archives with anyone, but this statement rings as truth to me:

"...Behold, my people did follow the Great High Priest in Mentinah as if he were God Himself, believing that I could not lead them off His path. Yea, they were all of the belief that God would smite me ere I could ever lead them astray. And smite me He has, with the certain knowledge that, if my people continue to follow my counsels, they shall all be destroyed.

Wherefore, I do leave my stewardship with this counsel; Lean upon God. Importune Him in all things. Cry unto Him even when He has given you visions! Cry unto Him even when He has blessed you with the Gifts of the Spirit! Cry unto Him even when He has walked with you and talked with you! Do not tempt the Lord your God in any thing, but cry unto Him unceasingly."

Made up or not, I want a leader like him.

[JD21]

Spoiler

[sarc] Guys, they aren't telling us to trust in a man, they're telling us to trust in the Lord! Brigham Young stated that "the Lord Almighty leads this Church", and who leads the church today? Nelson! That means they are one and the same! Nelson is simply the Lord in human form, leading the church. That's why he cannot lead us astray! [/sarc]

Actually, I just wanted to chat about Rasband's talk. Read/watch it here. I'm seriously wondering what some of you think about certain statements.

He begins by giving us the "things of [his] soul", which consists of 7 points. I wish to point some things out and ask questions about the last one. I'm genuinely curious to see if I'm reading this wrong... because it sounds bizarre.

• Seventh, follow God’s living prophet. This may be seventh on my list of things, but it is at the top of my mind in terms of its importance today.

He very clearly states that this is the most important of the things on his list today. What are those other things?

1. love God the Father and Jesus Christ, our Savior.
2. Love thy neighbour.
3. love yourself.
4. keep the commandments.
5. always be worthy to attend the temple.
6. be joyful and cheerful.

Am I interpreting his meaning incorrectly, or did he just say that it's more important to follow "the prophet" than to do those things?

Then, speaking to the young woman, he says:

• She wanted to know what things matter most. “Follow the living prophet,” I said then and I emphasize again today.

So following "the prophet" matters most?

Then another never lead astray statement...

• I promise that as you listen and follow their counsel, you will never be led astray. Never!

Follow their counsel... what counsel? They counseled us to take the vaxxeen. That counsel? I feel like their statements are so obviously designed to confuse the Hell out of the members, never giving clear answers but general ideas.

Another example of that is in his next paragraph:

• when President Nelson speaks, he speaks for the Lord.

Does Nelson always speak for the Lord? Or only sometimes? This seems to say the first, that Nelson speaks for the Lord, period.

He then gives us the example of Naaman, saying:

• The account of Naaman reminds us of the risk of picking and choosing the parts of prophetic counsel that fit our thinking, our expectations, or today’s norms.

What I hear: "you shouldn't pick and choose what Nelson tells you to do, you need to just do it"... am I wrong? Also, isn't it interesting that he uses a story about healing??? No coincidence IMO...

What?

• The most important words we can hear, ponder, and follow are those revealed through our living prophet.

What about the words of Christ? "Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do." (2 Nephi 32:3)

....WHAT?

• it is critical to realize that his [Nelson's] clear direction will shield us all from the deceit, craftiness, and secular ways gaining momentum in the world today.

Do you think that wearing a mask and getting jabbed is shielding us from the deceit, craftiness, and all the other crap in the world today?

Come on... I seriously think that his entire talk was meant to tell all of the members to get in line and listen to Nelson no matter what he says. That it is literally the most important thing we can do today.

I don't get how people don't see an issue with this... help me out.

Great post. Two comments:

1. He should have been struck by a bolt of lightening.

2. Ever seen the movie "Stepford Wives?" I think we've become a "Stepford Church." Since Nelson believes that the long held nickname "mormon" is such an abomination, perhaps we need a new one. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, aka "The Stepford Church," where logical thinking and personal revelation is not required (nor welcomed.)

There are relatively few who seem to be awake to our "awful situation." They just can't seem to grasp that the prophet could be other than a prophet of God. Rasband is following the long held "doctrine" of following the prophet, no matter what. He can't be wrong. God would remove him from the earth if he ever tried to lead us astray. So, don't worry. Get your shots, be happy. Enjoy the lights on temple square- those of you who have obeyed the prophet. You know, the righteous ones. And don't forget to tithe to the corporation, oops, I mean church.

Umm....

Yeah, you’re totally right

I’ve never seen the movie, may have to now. Seems to completely fit the bill.

People like to be comfortable I’m sure in all ages there have been those who would rather listen to someone then seek answers for themselves. It’s a lazy doctrine, and is literally damning (stopping their progression).

I’m not going to argue the validity of the Mentinah Archives with anyone, but this statement rings as truth to me:

"...Behold, my people did follow the Great High Priest in Mentinah as if he were God Himself, believing that I could not lead them off His path. Yea, they were all of the belief that God would smite me ere I could ever lead them astray. And smite me He has, with the certain knowledge that, if my people continue to follow my counsels, they shall all be destroyed.

Wherefore, I do leave my stewardship with this counsel; Lean upon God. Importune Him in all things. Cry unto Him even when He has given you visions! Cry unto Him even when He has blessed you with the Gifts of the Spirit! Cry unto Him even when He has walked with you and talked with you! Do not tempt the Lord your God in any thing, but cry unto Him unceasingly."

Made up or not, I want a leader like him.

I've never heard of the Mentinah Archives. Thank you for mentioning them.

The Stepford Wives was a movie (with a remake - Nicole Kidman), where families moved to the town of Stepford, by invitation. Usually their marriages weren't going so well. So the Men's Club would kidnap the problem wife and replace her brain with that of a robot - sort of - anyway, she became the perfect, placid wife. No real emotion. Just a permanent smile and perfect obedience. The husbands seemed to like the new version.

Actually, David Bednar would have LOVED living in Stepford.

[Redpilled Mormon]

Great post. Two comments:

1. He should have been struck by a bolt of lightening.

I died laughing at this, gonna need a new keyboard after shooting soda out of my nose But then again, I have a twisted sense of humor.

[Redpilled Mormon]

I've never heard of the Mentinah Archives. Thank you for mentioning them.

I'd never heard of the Mentinah either, before visiting this forum. I think I got the reference from Gadianton Slayer? Went and looked it up, been reading it though I've barely scratched the surface so far. Haven't read it all, but it doesn't seem to conflict in any way (so far) with the gospel and doctrines and history I'm familiar with in the Book of Mormon. It could easily be Mormon fanfiction, but it if is, it's quite good fanfiction. Especially since we have actual recognized scripture (D&C) that conflicts with the Book of Mormon way more than the Mentinah does, it's kinda striking.

[Rwp]

Out of all the talks I found Rasband to be the worst one.

Out of all the 15, he has always struck me as insincere and teaching doctrine that contradicts what had been previously taught. He was called when I was a RS president and I was VERY true blue back then and I even back then I instantly felt he and Renland were off somehow.

[Rwp]

Out of all the talks I found Rasband to be the worst one.

Out of all the 15, he has always struck me as insincere and teaching doctrine that contradicts what had been previously taught. He was called when I was a RS president and I was VERY true blue back then and I even back then I instantly felt he and Renland were off somehow.