What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

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Serragon
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3464

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by Serragon »

zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 3:12 pm These are some of the cases that I am not feeling are showing the Christian spirit among the LDS congregations
-----
LDS Robert Gene Metcalf "This case was filed in Maricopa County Superior Court in May
1993. In 1979, Gail Metcalf walked in on her husband, Gene Metcalf, and witnessed him
having anal sex with a 13 year old boy who had been residing with them. He was sentenced
to prison for six years for his misconduct with the boy as well as with Gail's children. She
divorced him and the Church excommunicated him. His parental rights were not terminated,
but a six-month no contact order was entered following his release from prison.
In 1987, Gail Metcalf developed a brain tumor and needed extensive medical treatment.
She contacted her local Bishop to discuss what will happen to her children while she is
hospitalized. Her civil lawsuit alleges that she was ordered by her Bishop and the Stake
President to send her children to live with Gene Metcalf and they would monitor the
situation for her making certain the children were safe. She sent them to live with him for
eight months when they were molested again. At his sentencing, there was heavy lobbying
by politicians connected to the Church in defense of Gene Metcalf. Local Bishops involved
and who may be named defendants are Grant Shumway and Don Excell. The case was
resolved with an undisclosed settlement on behalf of the Metcalf children."
-----
“From at least the 1960s if not earlier, LDS Defendants knew that LDS callings and
assignments were being used by pedophiles to victimize children and that LDS Defendants
had an institution-wide child abuse problem. Despite this knowledge, LDS Defendants did
not implement adequate child sex abuse policies.83.This institutional failure by LDS
Defendants was a substantial contributing factor to the abuse of Plaintiffs. LDS Defendants’
failure to implement adequate child abuse policies created a foreseeable risk of harm to the
safety of children in the care of the LDS Defendants, including these plaintiffs.84.As a direct
and foreseeable consequence of LDS Defendants’ negligence as described above, Plaintiffs
have suffered damages as described in paragraphs. “During the time all Plaintiffs were
sexually abused by Dykes, LDS Defendants had knowledge or should have known of
Dykes’ dangerousness to children. In or about 1981 or1982, LDS Defendants discovered
that Dykes had sexually abused a minor child who was a LDS member and scout, and LDS
Defendants conducted their own investigation into the allegations.”
DYKE-Timur Van Dykes 1-Complaint.pdf
-----
LDS Burrell Mohler Sr, his brother and his four sons were charged with 42 counts of child
sexual abuse. "But a church bishop, Paul Tonga, made the idiotic decision to investigate
the matter himself. The Star reported that Burrell Jr. was excommunicated from the LDS
church in 2007 for personal conduct unrelated to child sexual abuse." "For its part, the
Mormon church has said Bishop Tonga should have consulted with church leaders, who
would have told him to notify the authorities." In the early 1990s some of the grandchildren
reportedly went to their mother about the abuse, according to poice documents. Instead of
going to law enforcement, she told the head of her Mormon church. And nothing
happened." MOHLER-Burrell Mohler 1.pdf "Investigators seized several dozen videotapes
from on Mohler son's house"
-----
“Most of these abuse cases were referred to the legal system by individuals other than religious leaders, and yet in many of the cases the abuse had been brought to the attention of clergy members long before it was reported to the authorities."
"One particular incest case I worked with had been reported to six different bishops, and none of those bishops reported it to the authorities. The molestation continued for a period of eleven years.”7
-----

We cannot make any sense of it b/c we believe Alma is a prophet and maybe the boy prophet Joseph was one also. But no one we have spoken to has been able to explain it to us why this is happening.
Currently, the church is extremely diligent about abuse. They require anyone with any possibility of working with kids to take a training course. They encourage all members, not just leadership, to report any abuse to authorities. Any leader who comes into contact with an abuse situation is required to call a hotline that puts them in touch with a counselor. Once the details of the case have been reported to the counselor, they put you in contact with a lawyer who tells you what you are legally required to do depending on where you live. The counselor then gets back on and gives you tips about how to proceed with helping both the victim and the abuser.

Previously, the church tended to try and keep things quieter and not get authorities involved. Some of that was PR, but often it was a leaders decision because they thought it would help the repentance process of the abuser. There are undoubtedly some leaders who still do this even though the church is telling them otherwise, but this is not a systemic issue in the church.

As to your confusion as to why this happens... From your posts here, it seems you simply don't believe in human nature.. or more likely that you believe these types of vices manifest themselves in America and the LDS church more than where you are from. But as i said before, these things come out in the open because of the freedom here and are then addressed. In other places, they remain hidden forever.

zhang_daqian
captain of 50
Posts: 69

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by zhang_daqian »

Serragon wrote: November 9th, 2021, 3:26 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 3:12 pm These are some of the cases that I am not feeling are showing the Christian spirit among the LDS congregations
-----
LDS Robert Gene Metcalf "This case was filed in Maricopa County Superior Court in May
1993. In 1979, Gail Metcalf walked in on her husband, Gene Metcalf, and witnessed him
having anal sex with a 13 year old boy who had been residing with them. He was sentenced
to prison for six years for his misconduct with the boy as well as with Gail's children. She
divorced him and the Church excommunicated him. His parental rights were not terminated,
but a six-month no contact order was entered following his release from prison.
In 1987, Gail Metcalf developed a brain tumor and needed extensive medical treatment.
She contacted her local Bishop to discuss what will happen to her children while she is
hospitalized. Her civil lawsuit alleges that she was ordered by her Bishop and the Stake
President to send her children to live with Gene Metcalf and they would monitor the
situation for her making certain the children were safe. She sent them to live with him for
eight months when they were molested again. At his sentencing, there was heavy lobbying
by politicians connected to the Church in defense of Gene Metcalf. Local Bishops involved
and who may be named defendants are Grant Shumway and Don Excell. The case was
resolved with an undisclosed settlement on behalf of the Metcalf children."
-----
“From at least the 1960s if not earlier, LDS Defendants knew that LDS callings and
assignments were being used by pedophiles to victimize children and that LDS Defendants
had an institution-wide child abuse problem. Despite this knowledge, LDS Defendants did
not implement adequate child sex abuse policies.83.This institutional failure by LDS
Defendants was a substantial contributing factor to the abuse of Plaintiffs. LDS Defendants’
failure to implement adequate child abuse policies created a foreseeable risk of harm to the
safety of children in the care of the LDS Defendants, including these plaintiffs.84.As a direct
and foreseeable consequence of LDS Defendants’ negligence as described above, Plaintiffs
have suffered damages as described in paragraphs. “During the time all Plaintiffs were
sexually abused by Dykes, LDS Defendants had knowledge or should have known of
Dykes’ dangerousness to children. In or about 1981 or1982, LDS Defendants discovered
that Dykes had sexually abused a minor child who was a LDS member and scout, and LDS
Defendants conducted their own investigation into the allegations.”
DYKE-Timur Van Dykes 1-Complaint.pdf
-----
LDS Burrell Mohler Sr, his brother and his four sons were charged with 42 counts of child
sexual abuse. "But a church bishop, Paul Tonga, made the idiotic decision to investigate
the matter himself. The Star reported that Burrell Jr. was excommunicated from the LDS
church in 2007 for personal conduct unrelated to child sexual abuse." "For its part, the
Mormon church has said Bishop Tonga should have consulted with church leaders, who
would have told him to notify the authorities." In the early 1990s some of the grandchildren
reportedly went to their mother about the abuse, according to poice documents. Instead of
going to law enforcement, she told the head of her Mormon church. And nothing
happened." MOHLER-Burrell Mohler 1.pdf "Investigators seized several dozen videotapes
from on Mohler son's house"
-----
“Most of these abuse cases were referred to the legal system by individuals other than religious leaders, and yet in many of the cases the abuse had been brought to the attention of clergy members long before it was reported to the authorities."
"One particular incest case I worked with had been reported to six different bishops, and none of those bishops reported it to the authorities. The molestation continued for a period of eleven years.”7
-----

We cannot make any sense of it b/c we believe Alma is a prophet and maybe the boy prophet Joseph was one also. But no one we have spoken to has been able to explain it to us why this is happening.
Currently, the church is extremely diligent about abuse. They require anyone with any possibility of working with kids to take a training course. They encourage all members, not just leadership, to report any abuse to authorities. Any leader who comes into contact with an abuse situation is required to call a hotline that puts them in touch with a counselor. Once the details of the case have been reported to the counselor, they put you in contact with a lawyer who tells you what you are legally required to do depending on where you live. The counselor then gets back on and gives you tips about how to proceed with helping both the victim and the abuser.

Previously, the church tended to try and keep things quieter and not get authorities involved. Some of that was PR, but often it was a leaders decision because they thought it would help the repentance process of the abuser. There are undoubtedly some leaders who still do this even though the church is telling them otherwise, but this is not a systemic issue in the church.

As to your confusion as to why this happens... From your posts here, it seems you simply don't believe in human nature.. or more likely that you believe these types of vices manifest themselves in America and the LDS church more than where you are from. But as i said before, these things come out in the open because of the freedom here and are then addressed. In other places, they remain hidden forever.
Yes we don't know why these things were hidden for so long by clergy who are in the Christian spirit among the LDS. These things happen in the east but we don't believe they are as common as in the LDS congregation and we do not believe they are hidden by the clergy we fellowshipped with. There is no evidence of hiding things b/c the clergy of our congregation are more open and we voted on the decisions. In other churches we don't know. We never let these types of men and women in the clergy if they tried to hide sex acts then we removed them. That is not in the Christian spirit to hide molestings. We do not know why the LDS waited so long to do this.

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 14411

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by Niemand »

zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 1:27 pm It turns out that this story is likely untrue and the
Yes who is the president of the MTC? Is he a priest? We do not want any involvement in groping or sex touching. Is he a leader in the congregation of Mormons?
I think you're a bit confused here. Practically every adult male LDS, including the missionaries are "priests". I am a priest. Robin Hood on here is a priest as well as pretty much all the males. I won't go into the complexity of our priesthood, but if you're an adult member and a man you'll be considered such... so it isn't such a big deal for us. We have a very democratic priesthood, you can get the Aaronic priesthood as a man shortly after being baptised.

Roughly speaking:
* An LDS bishop is similar to a priest/minister/pastor/vicar in most churches. He runs the local unit, called a ward, which is similar to a parish. If it it really small then he is branch president, but that means much the same thing.
* Stake president is similar to a bishop among RCs/Orthodox/Anglicans - he runs an area made up of wards called a stake.
* Area presidency would be like an archbishop maybe.
* Seventies/General Authorities are a bit like cardinals.
* In the missions you have a Mission President who runs things. The MTC is the missionary training centre - it's a kind of school the missionaries go to. So the MTC president is sort of like a principal or headmaster.

zhang_daqian
captain of 50
Posts: 69

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by zhang_daqian »

Niemand wrote: November 9th, 2021, 5:11 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 1:27 pm It turns out that this story is likely untrue and the
Yes who is the president of the MTC? Is he a priest? We do not want any involvement in groping or sex touching. Is he a leader in the congregation of Mormons?
I think you're a bit confused here. Practically every adult male LDS, including the missionaries are "priests". I am a priest. Robin Hood on here is a priest as well as pretty much all the males. I won't go into the complexity of our priesthood, but if you're an adult member and a man you'll be considered such... so it isn't such a big deal for us. We have a very democratic priesthood, you can get the Aaronic priesthood as a man shortly after being baptised.

Roughly speaking:
* An LDS bishop is similar to a priest/minister/pastor/vicar in most churches. He runs the local unit, called a ward, which is similar to a parish. If it it really small then he is branch president, but that means much the same thing.
* Stake president is similar to a bishop among RCs/Orthodox/Anglicans - he runs an area made up of wards called a stake.
* Area presidency would be like an archbishop maybe.
* Seventies/General Authorities are a bit like cardinals.
* In the missions you have a Mission President who runs things. The MTC is the missionary training centre - it's a kind of school the missionaries go to. So the MTC president is sort of like a principal or headmaster.
Yes we don't believe the bishops are in a Christian spirit if they are hiding the molestings of the congregation. This cannot be permitted in the body of Christ. The bishopric can be forgiven but they cannot be in the clergy for the safety of the younger ones or it will be hidden longer. We won't fellowship this way especially if it reminds us of the Catholics. We do not believe in the spirit of Catholic clergymen even if they profess Christ but we believe in the virgin mother. We believe a millstone will be hung around the spirit of the Catholics because they won't repent of the evil spirit they carry in their clergy.

We don't know of your other church clergymen and we can't find them in the holy books but we don't care about that as much as Christian ceremonies and spirit. We know the priesthood of Aaron also. Thank you Niemand.

Serragon
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3464

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by Serragon »

zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:08 pm
Niemand wrote: November 9th, 2021, 5:11 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 1:27 pm It turns out that this story is likely untrue and the
Yes who is the president of the MTC? Is he a priest? We do not want any involvement in groping or sex touching. Is he a leader in the congregation of Mormons?
I think you're a bit confused here. Practically every adult male LDS, including the missionaries are "priests". I am a priest. Robin Hood on here is a priest as well as pretty much all the males. I won't go into the complexity of our priesthood, but if you're an adult member and a man you'll be considered such... so it isn't such a big deal for us. We have a very democratic priesthood, you can get the Aaronic priesthood as a man shortly after being baptised.

Roughly speaking:
* An LDS bishop is similar to a priest/minister/pastor/vicar in most churches. He runs the local unit, called a ward, which is similar to a parish. If it it really small then he is branch president, but that means much the same thing.
* Stake president is similar to a bishop among RCs/Orthodox/Anglicans - he runs an area made up of wards called a stake.
* Area presidency would be like an archbishop maybe.
* Seventies/General Authorities are a bit like cardinals.
* In the missions you have a Mission President who runs things. The MTC is the missionary training centre - it's a kind of school the missionaries go to. So the MTC president is sort of like a principal or headmaster.
Yes we don't believe the bishops are in a Christian spirit if they are hiding the molestings of the congregation. This cannot be permitted in the body of Christ. The bishopric can be forgiven but they cannot be in the clergy for the safety of the younger ones or it will be hidden longer. We won't fellowship this way especially if it reminds us of the Catholics. We do not believe in the spirit of Catholic clergymen even if they profess Christ but we believe in the virgin mother. We believe a millstone will be hung around the spirit of the Catholics because they won't repent of the evil spirit they carry in their clergy.

We don't know of your other church clergymen and we can't find them in the holy books but we don't care about that as much as Christian ceremonies and spirit. We know the priesthood of Aaron also. Thank you Niemand.
Nobody believes that anyone hiding molestings has a Christian Spirit. You keep saying this over and over, yet there isn't a person here who is advocating for that.

You seem to think that because something has happened it is sanctioned by the church. I'm not sure how many people attend your church, but with millions and millions of members, nearly everything you can possibly imagine will end up happening. The church clearly doesn't condone this behavior and works very hard to root it out. You have stated how pure your church is and how you would never allow anything like this to happen. Let me know how that goes when you have millions of people. Anytime you give people the freedom to lead, things will happen you don't expect or approve of.

I'm not really certain why you seem to be so concerned with this. It clearly is not part of our church culture.

User avatar
~ternal-tummim
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1000

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by ~ternal-tummim »

Serragon wrote: November 9th, 2021, 3:26 pm But as i said before, these things come out in the open because of the freedom here and are then addressed. In other places, they remain hidden forever.
HA ha haaha haha hahaha ha ha ha!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

There is 109 times more freedom in China than in the USA right now.

In China no vax passport.

In China no brutal lockdowns.

In China no gay cake regime.

Come China. You see. Breathe free air. Little bit dirty, true, some cities. But free.

zhang_daqian
captain of 50
Posts: 69

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by zhang_daqian »

Serragon wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:17 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:08 pm
Niemand wrote: November 9th, 2021, 5:11 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 1:27 pm It turns out that this story is likely untrue and the
Yes who is the president of the MTC? Is he a priest? We do not want any involvement in groping or sex touching. Is he a leader in the congregation of Mormons?
I think you're a bit confused here. Practically every adult male LDS, including the missionaries are "priests". I am a priest. Robin Hood on here is a priest as well as pretty much all the males. I won't go into the complexity of our priesthood, but if you're an adult member and a man you'll be considered such... so it isn't such a big deal for us. We have a very democratic priesthood, you can get the Aaronic priesthood as a man shortly after being baptised.

Roughly speaking:
* An LDS bishop is similar to a priest/minister/pastor/vicar in most churches. He runs the local unit, called a ward, which is similar to a parish. If it it really small then he is branch president, but that means much the same thing.
* Stake president is similar to a bishop among RCs/Orthodox/Anglicans - he runs an area made up of wards called a stake.
* Area presidency would be like an archbishop maybe.
* Seventies/General Authorities are a bit like cardinals.
* In the missions you have a Mission President who runs things. The MTC is the missionary training centre - it's a kind of school the missionaries go to. So the MTC president is sort of like a principal or headmaster.
Yes we don't believe the bishops are in a Christian spirit if they are hiding the molestings of the congregation. This cannot be permitted in the body of Christ. The bishopric can be forgiven but they cannot be in the clergy for the safety of the younger ones or it will be hidden longer. We won't fellowship this way especially if it reminds us of the Catholics. We do not believe in the spirit of Catholic clergymen even if they profess Christ but we believe in the virgin mother. We believe a millstone will be hung around the spirit of the Catholics because they won't repent of the evil spirit they carry in their clergy.

We don't know of your other church clergymen and we can't find them in the holy books but we don't care about that as much as Christian ceremonies and spirit. We know the priesthood of Aaron also. Thank you Niemand.
Nobody believes that anyone hiding molestings has a Christian Spirit. You keep saying this over and over, yet there isn't a person here who is advocating for that.

You seem to think that because something has happened it is sanctioned by the church. I'm not sure how many people attend your church, but with millions and millions of members, nearly everything you can possibly imagine will end up happening. The church clearly doesn't condone this behavior and works very hard to root it out. You have stated how pure your church is and how you would never allow anything like this to happen. Let me know how that goes when you have millions of people. Anytime you give people the freedom to lead, things will happen you don't expect or approve of.

I'm not really certain why you seem to be so concerned with this. It clearly is not part of our church culture.
We have researched online on other message boards for weeks. We looked on reddit r/Mormon r/exmormon and churchofjesuschrist.org and talked to the proselytes but no one will tell us if the bishops were removed or disciplined by the higher clergy in the LDS. None of the LDS congregation will talk about it to us. This is why we are asking because those who offend the little ones will have a millstone hung on their neck. So I have to forbid for safety. The bishops are not removed when they don't report the molestings we think so we cannot bring little ones? We don't understand the spirit in the clergy of the LDS.

User avatar
~ternal-tummim
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1000

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by ~ternal-tummim »

zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:28 pm
Serragon wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:17 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:08 pm
Niemand wrote: November 9th, 2021, 5:11 pm

I think you're a bit confused here. Practically every adult male LDS, including the missionaries are "priests". I am a priest. Robin Hood on here is a priest as well as pretty much all the males. I won't go into the complexity of our priesthood, but if you're an adult member and a man you'll be considered such... so it isn't such a big deal for us. We have a very democratic priesthood, you can get the Aaronic priesthood as a man shortly after being baptised.

Roughly speaking:
* An LDS bishop is similar to a priest/minister/pastor/vicar in most churches. He runs the local unit, called a ward, which is similar to a parish. If it it really small then he is branch president, but that means much the same thing.
* Stake president is similar to a bishop among RCs/Orthodox/Anglicans - he runs an area made up of wards called a stake.
* Area presidency would be like an archbishop maybe.
* Seventies/General Authorities are a bit like cardinals.
* In the missions you have a Mission President who runs things. The MTC is the missionary training centre - it's a kind of school the missionaries go to. So the MTC president is sort of like a principal or headmaster.
Yes we don't believe the bishops are in a Christian spirit if they are hiding the molestings of the congregation. This cannot be permitted in the body of Christ. The bishopric can be forgiven but they cannot be in the clergy for the safety of the younger ones or it will be hidden longer. We won't fellowship this way especially if it reminds us of the Catholics. We do not believe in the spirit of Catholic clergymen even if they profess Christ but we believe in the virgin mother. We believe a millstone will be hung around the spirit of the Catholics because they won't repent of the evil spirit they carry in their clergy.

We don't know of your other church clergymen and we can't find them in the holy books but we don't care about that as much as Christian ceremonies and spirit. We know the priesthood of Aaron also. Thank you Niemand.
Nobody believes that anyone hiding molestings has a Christian Spirit. You keep saying this over and over, yet there isn't a person here who is advocating for that.

You seem to think that because something has happened it is sanctioned by the church. I'm not sure how many people attend your church, but with millions and millions of members, nearly everything you can possibly imagine will end up happening. The church clearly doesn't condone this behavior and works very hard to root it out. You have stated how pure your church is and how you would never allow anything like this to happen. Let me know how that goes when you have millions of people. Anytime you give people the freedom to lead, things will happen you don't expect or approve of.

I'm not really certain why you seem to be so concerned with this. It clearly is not part of our church culture.
We have researched online on other message boards for weeks. We looked on reddit r/Mormon r/exmormon and churchofjesuschrist.org and talked to the proselytes but no one will tell us if the bishops were removed or disciplined by the higher clergy in the LDS. None of the LDS congregation will talk about it to us. This is why we are asking because those who offend the little ones will have a millstone hung on their neck. So I have to forbid for safety. The bishops are not removed when they don't report the molestings we think so we cannot bring little ones? We don't understand the spirit in the clergy of the LDS.
Play money does Open many doors. Not good ones, we think.

zhang_daqian
captain of 50
Posts: 69

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by zhang_daqian »

~ternal-tummim wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:32 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:28 pm
Serragon wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:17 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:08 pm

Yes we don't believe the bishops are in a Christian spirit if they are hiding the molestings of the congregation. This cannot be permitted in the body of Christ. The bishopric can be forgiven but they cannot be in the clergy for the safety of the younger ones or it will be hidden longer. We won't fellowship this way especially if it reminds us of the Catholics. We do not believe in the spirit of Catholic clergymen even if they profess Christ but we believe in the virgin mother. We believe a millstone will be hung around the spirit of the Catholics because they won't repent of the evil spirit they carry in their clergy.

We don't know of your other church clergymen and we can't find them in the holy books but we don't care about that as much as Christian ceremonies and spirit. We know the priesthood of Aaron also. Thank you Niemand.
Nobody believes that anyone hiding molestings has a Christian Spirit. You keep saying this over and over, yet there isn't a person here who is advocating for that.

You seem to think that because something has happened it is sanctioned by the church. I'm not sure how many people attend your church, but with millions and millions of members, nearly everything you can possibly imagine will end up happening. The church clearly doesn't condone this behavior and works very hard to root it out. You have stated how pure your church is and how you would never allow anything like this to happen. Let me know how that goes when you have millions of people. Anytime you give people the freedom to lead, things will happen you don't expect or approve of.

I'm not really certain why you seem to be so concerned with this. It clearly is not part of our church culture.
We have researched online on other message boards for weeks. We looked on reddit r/Mormon r/exmormon and churchofjesuschrist.org and talked to the proselytes but no one will tell us if the bishops were removed or disciplined by the higher clergy in the LDS. None of the LDS congregation will talk about it to us. This is why we are asking because those who offend the little ones will have a millstone hung on their neck. So I have to forbid for safety. The bishops are not removed when they don't report the molestings we think so we cannot bring little ones? We don't understand the spirit in the clergy of the LDS.
Play money does Open many doors. Not good ones, we think.
I do not understand this ~ternal-tummim.

4Joshua8
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2450

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by 4Joshua8 »

zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:28 pm
Serragon wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:17 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:08 pm
Niemand wrote: November 9th, 2021, 5:11 pm

I think you're a bit confused here. Practically every adult male LDS, including the missionaries are "priests". I am a priest. Robin Hood on here is a priest as well as pretty much all the males. I won't go into the complexity of our priesthood, but if you're an adult member and a man you'll be considered such... so it isn't such a big deal for us. We have a very democratic priesthood, you can get the Aaronic priesthood as a man shortly after being baptised.

Roughly speaking:
* An LDS bishop is similar to a priest/minister/pastor/vicar in most churches. He runs the local unit, called a ward, which is similar to a parish. If it it really small then he is branch president, but that means much the same thing.
* Stake president is similar to a bishop among RCs/Orthodox/Anglicans - he runs an area made up of wards called a stake.
* Area presidency would be like an archbishop maybe.
* Seventies/General Authorities are a bit like cardinals.
* In the missions you have a Mission President who runs things. The MTC is the missionary training centre - it's a kind of school the missionaries go to. So the MTC president is sort of like a principal or headmaster.
Yes we don't believe the bishops are in a Christian spirit if they are hiding the molestings of the congregation. This cannot be permitted in the body of Christ. The bishopric can be forgiven but they cannot be in the clergy for the safety of the younger ones or it will be hidden longer. We won't fellowship this way especially if it reminds us of the Catholics. We do not believe in the spirit of Catholic clergymen even if they profess Christ but we believe in the virgin mother. We believe a millstone will be hung around the spirit of the Catholics because they won't repent of the evil spirit they carry in their clergy.

We don't know of your other church clergymen and we can't find them in the holy books but we don't care about that as much as Christian ceremonies and spirit. We know the priesthood of Aaron also. Thank you Niemand.
Nobody believes that anyone hiding molestings has a Christian Spirit. You keep saying this over and over, yet there isn't a person here who is advocating for that.

You seem to think that because something has happened it is sanctioned by the church. I'm not sure how many people attend your church, but with millions and millions of members, nearly everything you can possibly imagine will end up happening. The church clearly doesn't condone this behavior and works very hard to root it out. You have stated how pure your church is and how you would never allow anything like this to happen. Let me know how that goes when you have millions of people. Anytime you give people the freedom to lead, things will happen you don't expect or approve of.

I'm not really certain why you seem to be so concerned with this. It clearly is not part of our church culture.
We have researched online on other message boards for weeks. We looked on reddit r/Mormon r/exmormon and churchofjesuschrist.org and talked to the proselytes but no one will tell us if the bishops were removed or disciplined by the higher clergy in the LDS. None of the LDS congregation will talk about it to us. This is why we are asking because those who offend the little ones will have a millstone hung on their neck. So I have to forbid for safety. The bishops are not removed when they don't report the molestings we think so we cannot bring little ones? We don't understand the spirit in the clergy of the LDS.
The way LDS congregations are organized, ordinary members wouldn't know what happened to these men who were accused, unless it was covered in the news or unless they were members of the congregation.
We don't intend to hide it or deceive you, chances are we just don't know.
We believe, as you do, that offending the little ones was condemned unequivocally by Jesus, and we share your concern about sexual abuse.

Your little ones do not have to be alone with the clergy. My wife and I don't let our children out of our site at church. There's a program called "primary" where all the children gather under the supervision of several parents from the congregation. I'm sure they would welcome you in there. Well, I hope they would.

The church isn't perfect. Not by a long shot. Many of us on this forum have serious misgivings about many things the church has done over the years. But, we also know that the church has much good, perhaps more knowledge and truth than any other institution on the planet, if you can see through the error that has creeped in. The Book of Mormon is a prized volume of scripture that we cherish, like we cherish the Bible. I hope you feel God's Spirit as you read it.

Best, 4Joshua8

zhang_daqian
captain of 50
Posts: 69

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by zhang_daqian »

4Joshua8 wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:53 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:28 pm
Serragon wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:17 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:08 pm

Yes we don't believe the bishops are in a Christian spirit if they are hiding the molestings of the congregation. This cannot be permitted in the body of Christ. The bishopric can be forgiven but they cannot be in the clergy for the safety of the younger ones or it will be hidden longer. We won't fellowship this way especially if it reminds us of the Catholics. We do not believe in the spirit of Catholic clergymen even if they profess Christ but we believe in the virgin mother. We believe a millstone will be hung around the spirit of the Catholics because they won't repent of the evil spirit they carry in their clergy.

We don't know of your other church clergymen and we can't find them in the holy books but we don't care about that as much as Christian ceremonies and spirit. We know the priesthood of Aaron also. Thank you Niemand.
Nobody believes that anyone hiding molestings has a Christian Spirit. You keep saying this over and over, yet there isn't a person here who is advocating for that.

You seem to think that because something has happened it is sanctioned by the church. I'm not sure how many people attend your church, but with millions and millions of members, nearly everything you can possibly imagine will end up happening. The church clearly doesn't condone this behavior and works very hard to root it out. You have stated how pure your church is and how you would never allow anything like this to happen. Let me know how that goes when you have millions of people. Anytime you give people the freedom to lead, things will happen you don't expect or approve of.

I'm not really certain why you seem to be so concerned with this. It clearly is not part of our church culture.
We have researched online on other message boards for weeks. We looked on reddit r/Mormon r/exmormon and churchofjesuschrist.org and talked to the proselytes but no one will tell us if the bishops were removed or disciplined by the higher clergy in the LDS. None of the LDS congregation will talk about it to us. This is why we are asking because those who offend the little ones will have a millstone hung on their neck. So I have to forbid for safety. The bishops are not removed when they don't report the molestings we think so we cannot bring little ones? We don't understand the spirit in the clergy of the LDS.
The way LDS congregations are organized, ordinary members wouldn't know what happened to these men who were accused, unless it was covered in the news or unless they were members of the congregation.
We don't intend to hide it or deceive you, chances are we just don't know.
We believe, as you do, that offending the little ones was condemned unequivocally by Jesus, and we share your concern about sexual abuse.

Your little ones do not have to be alone with the clergy. My wife and I don't let our children out of our site at church. There's a program called "primary" where all the children gather under the supervision of several parents from the congregation. I'm sure they would welcome you in there. Well, I hope they would.

The church isn't perfect. Not by a long shot. Many of us on this forum have serious misgivings about many things the church has done over the years. But, we also know that the church has much good, perhaps more knowledge and truth than any other institution on the planet, if you can see through the error that has creeped in. The Book of Mormon is a prized volume of scripture that we cherish, like we cherish the Bible. I hope you feel God's Spirit as you read it.

Best, 4Joshua8
Yes we know about primary but we have to leave the younger ones alone we think with people from the congregation and I will forbid my daughter leave them b/c of the reports we've read. We are going to read the book of mormon to study the prophecies on zion and we don't think we are are perfect or any man but no one will tell us if the bishops are disciplined for hiding the molestings so we can't attend. It's okay b/c we have other congregations we can go to but they do not teach about zion. Thank you 4Joshua8

User avatar
~ternal-tummim
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1000

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by ~ternal-tummim »

zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:38 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:32 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:28 pm
Serragon wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:17 pm

Nobody believes that anyone hiding molestings has a Christian Spirit. You keep saying this over and over, yet there isn't a person here who is advocating for that.

You seem to think that because something has happened it is sanctioned by the church. I'm not sure how many people attend your church, but with millions and millions of members, nearly everything you can possibly imagine will end up happening. The church clearly doesn't condone this behavior and works very hard to root it out. You have stated how pure your church is and how you would never allow anything like this to happen. Let me know how that goes when you have millions of people. Anytime you give people the freedom to lead, things will happen you don't expect or approve of.

I'm not really certain why you seem to be so concerned with this. It clearly is not part of our church culture.
We have researched online on other message boards for weeks. We looked on reddit r/Mormon r/exmormon and churchofjesuschrist.org and talked to the proselytes but no one will tell us if the bishops were removed or disciplined by the higher clergy in the LDS. None of the LDS congregation will talk about it to us. This is why we are asking because those who offend the little ones will have a millstone hung on their neck. So I have to forbid for safety. The bishops are not removed when they don't report the molestings we think so we cannot bring little ones? We don't understand the spirit in the clergy of the LDS.
Play money does Open many doors. Not good ones, we think.
I do not understand this ~ternal-tummim.
In the west we use money. Our whole society is now built on money. Everything we do in our personal lives is based on money. Money has gone far beyond being a tool and has become a colonizer of our lives. It has conquered all.

And that includes our holy churches and our sacred religion. They are no longer holy nor sacred. They are not following The Way. They do not give proper respect to the Holy Books.

So, Satan says “Jump.” They say: “Duōshǎo daqián?”

4Joshua8
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2450

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by 4Joshua8 »

zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 7:01 pm
4Joshua8 wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:53 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:28 pm
Serragon wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:17 pm

Nobody believes that anyone hiding molestings has a Christian Spirit. You keep saying this over and over, yet there isn't a person here who is advocating for that.

You seem to think that because something has happened it is sanctioned by the church. I'm not sure how many people attend your church, but with millions and millions of members, nearly everything you can possibly imagine will end up happening. The church clearly doesn't condone this behavior and works very hard to root it out. You have stated how pure your church is and how you would never allow anything like this to happen. Let me know how that goes when you have millions of people. Anytime you give people the freedom to lead, things will happen you don't expect or approve of.

I'm not really certain why you seem to be so concerned with this. It clearly is not part of our church culture.
We have researched online on other message boards for weeks. We looked on reddit r/Mormon r/exmormon and churchofjesuschrist.org and talked to the proselytes but no one will tell us if the bishops were removed or disciplined by the higher clergy in the LDS. None of the LDS congregation will talk about it to us. This is why we are asking because those who offend the little ones will have a millstone hung on their neck. So I have to forbid for safety. The bishops are not removed when they don't report the molestings we think so we cannot bring little ones? We don't understand the spirit in the clergy of the LDS.
The way LDS congregations are organized, ordinary members wouldn't know what happened to these men who were accused, unless it was covered in the news or unless they were members of the congregation.
We don't intend to hide it or deceive you, chances are we just don't know.
We believe, as you do, that offending the little ones was condemned unequivocally by Jesus, and we share your concern about sexual abuse.

Your little ones do not have to be alone with the clergy. My wife and I don't let our children out of our site at church. There's a program called "primary" where all the children gather under the supervision of several parents from the congregation. I'm sure they would welcome you in there. Well, I hope they would.

The church isn't perfect. Not by a long shot. Many of us on this forum have serious misgivings about many things the church has done over the years. But, we also know that the church has much good, perhaps more knowledge and truth than any other institution on the planet, if you can see through the error that has creeped in. The Book of Mormon is a prized volume of scripture that we cherish, like we cherish the Bible. I hope you feel God's Spirit as you read it.

Best, 4Joshua8
Yes we know about primary but we have to leave the younger ones alone we think with people from the congregation and I will forbid my daughter leave them b/c of the reports we've read. We are going to read the book of mormon to study the prophecies on zion and we don't think we are are perfect or any man but no one will tell us if the bishops are disciplined for hiding the molestings so we can't attend. It's okay b/c we have other congregations we can go to but they do not teach about zion. Thank you 4Joshua8
There are over 30,000 wards and branches in the church, with over 30,000 local bishops/branch presidents, so nobody on this forum is likely to know what happened in each of those cases you posted.

This is a long shot, but probably the best chance you have at finding out what happened in those cases is writing church HQ, explaining that you are not a member but are investigating the church, and asking for an accounting on those specific names and callings in the church. Tell them you find truth here but cannot trust your children with abusers and need to know that the church takes abuse seriously enough to relieve perpetrators of their positions of trust in the church. Explain that you already have missionaries (proselytes) and just need an answer to this question, and see if there is someone at headquarters who could look into each name and tell you what happened.

Some of it may be considered private information by the church, but perhaps they'd at least be willing to say whether or not individuals were relieved of duty.

Again, this is a long shot. If you're Chinese, tell them that. It might help. :)

I wouldn't send them that document, though, in its present form. They might find it too much time to spend on the project. Instead, harvest the names off of it and any other pertinent information, making it as concise as possible, and then attach the original document as an aside. If you take this course of action, I sincerely hope it doesn't end up being a huge waste of time.

Here's their mailing address. If someone knows of a more direct address, please respond.

Office of the First Presidency
50 East North Temple Street
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150
Last edited by 4Joshua8 on November 9th, 2021, 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zhang_daqian
captain of 50
Posts: 69

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by zhang_daqian »

~ternal-tummim wrote: November 9th, 2021, 7:05 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:38 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:32 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:28 pm

We have researched online on other message boards for weeks. We looked on reddit r/Mormon r/exmormon and churchofjesuschrist.org and talked to the proselytes but no one will tell us if the bishops were removed or disciplined by the higher clergy in the LDS. None of the LDS congregation will talk about it to us. This is why we are asking because those who offend the little ones will have a millstone hung on their neck. So I have to forbid for safety. The bishops are not removed when they don't report the molestings we think so we cannot bring little ones? We don't understand the spirit in the clergy of the LDS.
Play money does Open many doors. Not good ones, we think.
I do not understand this ~ternal-tummim.
In the west we use money. Our whole society is now built on money. Everything we do in our personal lives is based on money. Money has gone far beyond being a tool and has become a colonizer of our lives. It has conquered all.

And that includes our holy churches and our sacred religion. They are no longer holy nor sacred. They are not following The Way. They do not give proper respect to the Holy Books.

So, Satan says “Jump.” They say: “Duōshǎo daqián?”
I am going to tell my family about this! Yes in the east there are many rich Chinese who are pāi mǎ pì. Translated means rubbing a horses backside. They are what the west calls licking the boots the PRC wear. Many Chinese love money b/c money is the spirit of the west China wants to be like the west. We don't care but we can't understand the spirit of hiding in the churches in the west so that everything is covered from view. Everyone knows the PRC is lying but we didn't know the west are lying in their churches about molestings. We thought they were reported by the clergy to the government.

zhang_daqian
captain of 50
Posts: 69

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by zhang_daqian »

4Joshua8 wrote: November 9th, 2021, 7:09 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 7:01 pm
4Joshua8 wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:53 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:28 pm

We have researched online on other message boards for weeks. We looked on reddit r/Mormon r/exmormon and churchofjesuschrist.org and talked to the proselytes but no one will tell us if the bishops were removed or disciplined by the higher clergy in the LDS. None of the LDS congregation will talk about it to us. This is why we are asking because those who offend the little ones will have a millstone hung on their neck. So I have to forbid for safety. The bishops are not removed when they don't report the molestings we think so we cannot bring little ones? We don't understand the spirit in the clergy of the LDS.
The way LDS congregations are organized, ordinary members wouldn't know what happened to these men who were accused, unless it was covered in the news or unless they were members of the congregation.
We don't intend to hide it or deceive you, chances are we just don't know.
We believe, as you do, that offending the little ones was condemned unequivocally by Jesus, and we share your concern about sexual abuse.

Your little ones do not have to be alone with the clergy. My wife and I don't let our children out of our site at church. There's a program called "primary" where all the children gather under the supervision of several parents from the congregation. I'm sure they would welcome you in there. Well, I hope they would.

The church isn't perfect. Not by a long shot. Many of us on this forum have serious misgivings about many things the church has done over the years. But, we also know that the church has much good, perhaps more knowledge and truth than any other institution on the planet, if you can see through the error that has creeped in. The Book of Mormon is a prized volume of scripture that we cherish, like we cherish the Bible. I hope you feel God's Spirit as you read it.

Best, 4Joshua8
Yes we know about primary but we have to leave the younger ones alone we think with people from the congregation and I will forbid my daughter leave them b/c of the reports we've read. We are going to read the book of mormon to study the prophecies on zion and we don't think we are are perfect or any man but no one will tell us if the bishops are disciplined for hiding the molestings so we can't attend. It's okay b/c we have other congregations we can go to but they do not teach about zion. Thank you 4Joshua8
There are over 30,000 wards and branches in the church, with over 30,000 local bishops/branch presidents, so nobody on this forum is likely to know what happened in each of those cases you posted.

This is a long shot, but probably the best chance you have at finding out what happened in those cases is writing church HQ, explaining that you are not a member but are investigating the church, and asking for an accounting on those specific names and callings in the church. Tell them you find truth here but cannot trust your children with abusers and need to know that the church takes abuse seriously enough to relieve perpetrators of their positions of trust in the church. Explain that you already have missionaries (proselytes) and just need an answer to this question, and see if there is someone at headquarters who could look into each name and tell you what happened.

Some of it may be considered private information by the church, but perhaps they'd at least be willing to say whether or not individuals were relieved of duty.

Again, this is a long shot. If you're Chinese, tell them that. It might help. :)

I wouldn't send them that document, though, in its present form. They might find it too much time to spend on the project. Instead, harvest the names off of it and any other pertinent information, making it as concise as possible. If you take this course of action, I sincerely hope it doesn't end up being a huge waste of time.

Here's their mailing address. If someone knows of a more direct address, please respond.

Office of the First Presidency
50 East North Temple Street
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150
We thank you 4Joshua8. We have prayed to highest father and we all say the little ones can't go because the church will not regulate itself and give the information to the new members to know they are reporting the molestings to the government. We did not think the LDS held racism against Chinese but my family would not like the Chinese whispers phrasing of your brother on the message board. We do not know if it's wider than this. We have tried to research the best we can but we have faith the Lord will lead us.

4Joshua8
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2450

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by 4Joshua8 »

zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 7:28 pm
4Joshua8 wrote: November 9th, 2021, 7:09 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 7:01 pm
4Joshua8 wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:53 pm

The way LDS congregations are organized, ordinary members wouldn't know what happened to these men who were accused, unless it was covered in the news or unless they were members of the congregation.
We don't intend to hide it or deceive you, chances are we just don't know.
We believe, as you do, that offending the little ones was condemned unequivocally by Jesus, and we share your concern about sexual abuse.

Your little ones do not have to be alone with the clergy. My wife and I don't let our children out of our site at church. There's a program called "primary" where all the children gather under the supervision of several parents from the congregation. I'm sure they would welcome you in there. Well, I hope they would.

The church isn't perfect. Not by a long shot. Many of us on this forum have serious misgivings about many things the church has done over the years. But, we also know that the church has much good, perhaps more knowledge and truth than any other institution on the planet, if you can see through the error that has creeped in. The Book of Mormon is a prized volume of scripture that we cherish, like we cherish the Bible. I hope you feel God's Spirit as you read it.

Best, 4Joshua8
Yes we know about primary but we have to leave the younger ones alone we think with people from the congregation and I will forbid my daughter leave them b/c of the reports we've read. We are going to read the book of mormon to study the prophecies on zion and we don't think we are are perfect or any man but no one will tell us if the bishops are disciplined for hiding the molestings so we can't attend. It's okay b/c we have other congregations we can go to but they do not teach about zion. Thank you 4Joshua8
There are over 30,000 wards and branches in the church, with over 30,000 local bishops/branch presidents, so nobody on this forum is likely to know what happened in each of those cases you posted.

This is a long shot, but probably the best chance you have at finding out what happened in those cases is writing church HQ, explaining that you are not a member but are investigating the church, and asking for an accounting on those specific names and callings in the church. Tell them you find truth here but cannot trust your children with abusers and need to know that the church takes abuse seriously enough to relieve perpetrators of their positions of trust in the church. Explain that you already have missionaries (proselytes) and just need an answer to this question, and see if there is someone at headquarters who could look into each name and tell you what happened.

Some of it may be considered private information by the church, but perhaps they'd at least be willing to say whether or not individuals were relieved of duty.

Again, this is a long shot. If you're Chinese, tell them that. It might help. :)

I wouldn't send them that document, though, in its present form. They might find it too much time to spend on the project. Instead, harvest the names off of it and any other pertinent information, making it as concise as possible. If you take this course of action, I sincerely hope it doesn't end up being a huge waste of time.

Here's their mailing address. If someone knows of a more direct address, please respond.

Office of the First Presidency
50 East North Temple Street
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150
We thank you 4Joshua8. We have prayed to highest father and we all say the little ones can't go because the church will not regulate itself and give the information to the new members to know they are reporting the molestings to the government. We did not think the LDS held racism against Chinese but my family would not like the Chinese whispers phrasing of your brother on the message board. We do not know if it's wider than this. We have tried to research the best we can but we have faith the Lord will lead us.
I just meant that President Nelson has a special place in his heart for the Chinese. He sometimes talks about it in his speeches. That’s why I suggested being sure to say you’re Chinese, if you are. :)

User avatar
John Tavner
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4328

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by John Tavner »

zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 8:55 am
John Tavner wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:56 am
zhang_daqian wrote: November 8th, 2021, 11:02 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: November 8th, 2021, 9:34 pm
The LDS clergy is molesting the LDS children it seems to be. Apostle is the highest clergy position? So the man in the video said the whole of Utah are covering it up and the LDS are like the Catholics and Jehovahs witness then. I don't think I can let my family join if this is true. Did the boy prophet Joseph do this once he was older? What about the larger man who came after him?
Like all places, some people are good and some bad. Some are good in the church and some are bad. Some are wolves in sheep's clothing and some are sheep and there are a few shepherds. If you are a believing man, I would pray and ask if it is right - or whether to give them the decision or not and just have your family realize there are some dangers - but in today's world, there are dangers everywhere - including other denominations and non-denominational churches, because wolves like to eat sheep. However, just because there are wolves doesn't mean we don't go out to eat grass. A community of believers is important and being baptized unto repentance is important. Most importantly baptism is not solely to get into an organization, it's purpose is to give up your life to bear the Lord's name. To give up your old life of sin and to take upon ourselves the rightoeusness of Christ and to let His grace change us into His image. If they haven't had a chance to be baptized yet with that purpose in their heart, I would at least let them try and seek someone to obtain that, because that act can be a blessing as well as communicating among other believers. A society that is truly seeking Christ together is a beautiful society.

2 Nephi 31:13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

Matthew 28:19

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

Baptism is the symbol of death in our old ways and life in a new way, accepting Christ, but living as if our past is dead. It is the first sign of repentance (turning towards God) when one desires to be baptized they are showing they truly desire to accept the mercy of hte Lord and live a new life, bearing/carrying the name of the Lord to others, so that when others see them, they also see Christ in them.

As an aside, the church will not save your family, only Christ, but baptism is an important part of becoming a part of the body of Christ if they are able to do so. Good luck in your decisions!
Yes we know the ceremony of baptism. Jesus was baptized by John in Jordan and after in the holy book of the acts of the apostles the apostles baptize also. We have already received it but we do not believe that it was the right one.

I know Nephi now as well, he's in the book of mormon and is a holy man maybe. Alma is certainly a holy man but if your cite from him teaches baptism in the name of the trinity maybe Nephi is also. I do not know yet. But when I read Alma I knew from his words that he knew about the resurrections.
Right, just pray and ask the Lord if it was the right one - or if there should be another you seek after. Only He can tell you. He looks upon your heart and the heart of the one baptizing. Seek the Lord and ask Him and The Lord and His Spirit will lead you right.

zhang_daqian
captain of 50
Posts: 69

Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by zhang_daqian »

4Joshua8 wrote: November 9th, 2021, 7:53 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 7:28 pm
4Joshua8 wrote: November 9th, 2021, 7:09 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 7:01 pm

Yes we know about primary but we have to leave the younger ones alone we think with people from the congregation and I will forbid my daughter leave them b/c of the reports we've read. We are going to read the book of mormon to study the prophecies on zion and we don't think we are are perfect or any man but no one will tell us if the bishops are disciplined for hiding the molestings so we can't attend. It's okay b/c we have other congregations we can go to but they do not teach about zion. Thank you 4Joshua8
There are over 30,000 wards and branches in the church, with over 30,000 local bishops/branch presidents, so nobody on this forum is likely to know what happened in each of those cases you posted.

This is a long shot, but probably the best chance you have at finding out what happened in those cases is writing church HQ, explaining that you are not a member but are investigating the church, and asking for an accounting on those specific names and callings in the church. Tell them you find truth here but cannot trust your children with abusers and need to know that the church takes abuse seriously enough to relieve perpetrators of their positions of trust in the church. Explain that you already have missionaries (proselytes) and just need an answer to this question, and see if there is someone at headquarters who could look into each name and tell you what happened.

Some of it may be considered private information by the church, but perhaps they'd at least be willing to say whether or not individuals were relieved of duty.

Again, this is a long shot. If you're Chinese, tell them that. It might help. :)

I wouldn't send them that document, though, in its present form. They might find it too much time to spend on the project. Instead, harvest the names off of it and any other pertinent information, making it as concise as possible. If you take this course of action, I sincerely hope it doesn't end up being a huge waste of time.

Here's their mailing address. If someone knows of a more direct address, please respond.

Office of the First Presidency
50 East North Temple Street
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150
We thank you 4Joshua8. We have prayed to highest father and we all say the little ones can't go because the church will not regulate itself and give the information to the new members to know they are reporting the molestings to the government. We did not think the LDS held racism against Chinese but my family would not like the Chinese whispers phrasing of your brother on the message board. We do not know if it's wider than this. We have tried to research the best we can but we have faith the Lord will lead us.
I just meant that President Nelson has a special place in his heart for the Chinese. He sometimes talks about it in his speeches. That’s why I suggested being sure to say you’re Chinese, if you are. :)
No we do not believe president Russell Nelson is a holy prophet. He is the highest president of the LDS we believe but we don't believe he will instruct the bishops to report to the government the molestings. He is like the pope of the Catholics. We do not believe he has been inspired from God because the Christian spirit would report offenses of the little ones and instruct the clergy to follow and would remove any clergy who refused. We cannot believe that he is a holy man but we respect the holy book of mormon of the LDS we think.
But whoever shall offend one of these little
ones who believe in me, it would be better for him that a millstone
were hung about his neck and he was drowned in the depth of the sea.
Matthew

zhang_daqian
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Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by zhang_daqian »

John Tavner wrote: November 9th, 2021, 8:00 pm
zhang_daqian wrote: November 9th, 2021, 8:55 am
John Tavner wrote: November 9th, 2021, 6:56 am
zhang_daqian wrote: November 8th, 2021, 11:02 pm

The LDS clergy is molesting the LDS children it seems to be. Apostle is the highest clergy position? So the man in the video said the whole of Utah are covering it up and the LDS are like the Catholics and Jehovahs witness then. I don't think I can let my family join if this is true. Did the boy prophet Joseph do this once he was older? What about the larger man who came after him?
Like all places, some people are good and some bad. Some are good in the church and some are bad. Some are wolves in sheep's clothing and some are sheep and there are a few shepherds. If you are a believing man, I would pray and ask if it is right - or whether to give them the decision or not and just have your family realize there are some dangers - but in today's world, there are dangers everywhere - including other denominations and non-denominational churches, because wolves like to eat sheep. However, just because there are wolves doesn't mean we don't go out to eat grass. A community of believers is important and being baptized unto repentance is important. Most importantly baptism is not solely to get into an organization, it's purpose is to give up your life to bear the Lord's name. To give up your old life of sin and to take upon ourselves the rightoeusness of Christ and to let His grace change us into His image. If they haven't had a chance to be baptized yet with that purpose in their heart, I would at least let them try and seek someone to obtain that, because that act can be a blessing as well as communicating among other believers. A society that is truly seeking Christ together is a beautiful society.

2 Nephi 31:13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

Matthew 28:19

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

Baptism is the symbol of death in our old ways and life in a new way, accepting Christ, but living as if our past is dead. It is the first sign of repentance (turning towards God) when one desires to be baptized they are showing they truly desire to accept the mercy of hte Lord and live a new life, bearing/carrying the name of the Lord to others, so that when others see them, they also see Christ in them.

As an aside, the church will not save your family, only Christ, but baptism is an important part of becoming a part of the body of Christ if they are able to do so. Good luck in your decisions!
Yes we know the ceremony of baptism. Jesus was baptized by John in Jordan and after in the holy book of the acts of the apostles the apostles baptize also. We have already received it but we do not believe that it was the right one.

I know Nephi now as well, he's in the book of mormon and is a holy man maybe. Alma is certainly a holy man but if your cite from him teaches baptism in the name of the trinity maybe Nephi is also. I do not know yet. But when I read Alma I knew from his words that he knew about the resurrections.
Right, just pray and ask the Lord if it was the right one - or if there should be another you seek after. Only He can tell you. He looks upon your heart and the heart of the one baptizing. Seek the Lord and ask Him and The Lord and His Spirit will lead you right.
Thank you John Tavner.

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notjamesbond003.5
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Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by notjamesbond003.5 »

zhang_daqian-

You're on to something and your instincts are correct. There is a massive coverup of sexual abuse in the LDS Church, over the last 50-75 years-many Apostles and General Authorities have been implicated including members of Russell Nelson's own family who were sent on LDS Missions abroad as a Mission President and wife- to keep them out of the spotlight.

There are many on here who are Defenders of the Faith types, who know and who willingly mislead you-on this very topic, on this message board.
There are some who haven't researched honestly and sufficiently and then ignorantly support the LDS Hierarchy.

The LDS Church will usually only prosecute and expose sexual abusers who are low ranking members and low ranking clergy, and go to great lengths protect the General Authorities-for public relation purposes.

One of the reasons the LDS Church hasn't been brought down like the Catholic Church is because the LDS Church has a better Public Relations Dept. Look how they market globally as an example.

Many of the LDS Hierarchy are involved with USA Govt Agencies like the CIA, FBI and other agencies who are run by The Masons, Godless Atheists and Satanists-all Christ deniers.

These in turn have infiltrated the modern LDS Church in Utah.

When a new General Authority is brought brand new into his office: he surrenders his will and allegiance to The Utah Church-he is now paid handsomely by them, and is set financially for life. He is slowly showed the darker side of the workings of The Utah Church but has taken vows in the Temple to never divulge the Church's dirty secrets or talk ill of The Brethren.

The good news is this: Joseph Smith is still a Prophet and the Book of Mormon is indeed true.

You don't have to join the Utah Church to accept those two truths.

Good luck,
NotJamesBond00.35

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Robin Hood
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Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by Robin Hood »

notjamesbond003.5 wrote: November 10th, 2021, 5:42 am zhang_daqian-

You're on to something and your instincts are correct. There is a massive coverup of sexual abuse in the LDS Church, over the last 50-75 years-many Apostles and General Authorities have been implicated including members of Russell Nelson's own family who were sent on LDS Missions abroad as a Mission President and wife- to keep them out of the spotlight.

There are many on here who are Defenders of the Faith types, who know and who willingly mislead you-on this very topic, on this message board.
There are some who haven't researched honestly and sufficiently and then ignorantly support the LDS Hierarchy.

The LDS Church will usually only prosecute and expose sexual abusers who are low ranking members and low ranking clergy, and go to great lengths protect the General Authorities-for public relation purposes.

One of the reasons the LDS Church hasn't been brought down like the Catholic Church is because the LDS Church has a better Public Relations Dept. Look how they market globally as an example.

Many of the LDS Hierarchy are involved with USA Govt Agencies like the CIA, FBI and other agencies who are run by The Masons, Godless Atheists and Satanists-all Christ deniers.

These in turn have infiltrated the modern LDS Church in Utah.

When a new General Authority is brought brand new into his office: he surrenders his will and allegiance to The Utah Church-he is now paid handsomely by them, and is set financially for life. He is slowly showed the darker side of the workings of The Utah Church but has taken vows in the Temple to never divulge the Church's dirty secrets or talk ill of The Brethren.

The good news is this: Joseph Smith is still a Prophet and the Book of Mormon is indeed true.

You don't have to join the Utah Church to accept those two truths.

Good luck,
NotJamesBond00.35
All sounds very accurate, except of course for a chronic lack of evidence. I'm fed up with people who seem to know so much when they talk generalities and who throw accusations around like confetti, but have nothing to say when asked for evidence... real evidence, not just hearsay.
We do have the case of George P. Lee who was excommunicated when serving as a general authority, and who was subsequently convicted of sexual assault against a 12 year old girl. This was reported in the media at the time and was big news in the church. So, if that's a cover-up we're not very good at it!
There may be other incidents, I'm sure there are. But the oft repeated issue with Nelson's daughter appears to be a great big nothing burger when you strip away all of the hyperbole and get to the facts. The same with President Bishop of the MTC. Ignore all of the media chatter and actually look at the evidence and the story isn't nearly so straightforward.
I chased a paedophile out of the building when I was a bishop and worked closely with the police and with the church's legal department to ensure he was unable to offend again. Nothing was covered up.
Another member of my ward is serving 15 years in jail for historic offences within his family which came to the attention of church authorities. Again, worked closely with the police and the Crown Prosecution Service.
I am happy to accept that all of these accusations are true, if in fact they are. But we have a principle of law which states that a person is innocent until proven guilty, and we have it for a good reason. We require evidence and proof beyond a reasonable doubt in order to convict.
Which is what happened in the case of George P. Lee.

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notjamesbond003.5
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Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by notjamesbond003.5 »

Oh chin chin Prig-Robin.
We all see you’ve been triggered.
Good job on going after the low level pedo in your ward, and patting yourself on the back about it.

As for George Lee the Native American Indian General Authority, George Lee wrote a letter to the Brethren about their corruption and shortly thereafter was framed, for his dissension-but you’re ignorant of the story and stick w the propaganda of the LDS PR Dept.

That said, how come you never have called out the Satanic Pedos in your British Government, like Jimmy Saville and Heath?

Is it because they were never convicted ?
Hmm.
Pretty high bar you set there mate.

Continue to stick to the LDS Manual and play books’ -standard procedure of denial mate, it’s quite entertaining.

Cheers-
Njb

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Robin Hood
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Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by Robin Hood »

notjamesbond003.5 wrote: November 10th, 2021, 7:04 am Oh chin chin Prig-Robin.
We all see you’ve been triggered.
Good job on going after the low level pedo in your ward, and patting yourself on the back about it.

As for George Lee the Native American Indian General Authority, George Lee wrote a letter to the Brethren about their corruption and shortly thereafter was framed, for his dissension-but you’re ignorant of the story and stick w the propaganda of the LDS PR Dept.

That said, how come you never have called out the Satanic Pedos in your British Government, like Jimmy Saville and Heath?

Is it because they were never convicted ?
Hmm.
Pretty high bar you set there mate.

Continue to stick to the LDS Manual and play books’ -standard procedure of denial mate, it’s quite entertaining.

Cheers-
Njb
So, show us this letter George P. Lee wrote to the brethren about their corruption. That should really help us understand what happened. Oh wait.... you don't have it, you've never seen it, it's just hearsay.... but hey, why let that get in the way of a good story.
Remember, you will be judged the way you judge others. Hope you're happy being accused and convicted without evidence.
As for Heath, Savile and Co, I've known about them for years. Read all of David Icke's research and have actually met him. I believed Icke when hardly anyone did, but he presented real evidence not just scattergun accusations like you do. Any fool can do that and you're clearly living proof.
When you wrestle with a pig you both get dirty, but the pig loves it.

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Thinker
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Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by Thinker »

LDS Leaders Sex Abuse Cover-ups
“The Mormon church has a “culture” that protects sexual predators, Johnson said during the press conference.
“There is a very real, horrendous problem in the church right now,” she said. “That problem is that sexual predators are more protected in the Mormon church than innocent children and vulnerable adults.”

Participants (Native Americans) in the Church-sponsored Indian Student Placement Program have filed at least three sexual-abuse lawsuits.

"An Arizona prosecutor, who says a lawyer for the LDS Church told a bishop he didn’t need to inform police that a child was being sexually abused, has filed a bar complaint against that attorney and his law firm.
An indictment against the child’s parents suggests the abuse went on for a decade...”

President Nelson was involved in a case that was dismissed. It’s possible that Nelson & his daughter are innocent, but then why were Mile’s charges mysteriously dismissed despite Bill Cartensen admitting to being one of the perpetrator along with B. Miles (Nelson’s daughter), who was “mostly the cheerleeder and took the videos” during the sexual abuse “parties” (p. 15 & 20)?? If they were innocent why admit to something so disgustingly shameful?

Utah Highest in Sex Abuse Rates of Children.
https://www.ksl.com/article/46669115/ut ... tervention

This context is why some have concerns over the 2021 youth manual & church situations involving youth.

There’s also reason to not trust Zoom which is displaying images on the world-wide-web of our children, at the insistence of church leaders...

ZOOM EXECUTIVE EXPOSED AS CHINESE COMMUNIST SPY WHO SABOTAGED ANTI-CHINA VIDEO CONFERENCES WITH CHILD PORN AND TERRORISM: DOJ
“Jin provided the Chinese Communist Party with information about users and meetings, even supplying the CCP with IP addresses from anyone who...”
https://www.theblaze.com/news/zoom-empl ... se-spy-doj

More of church leaders covering up child sex abuse...

Mormon church faces 7 new lawsuits for alleged Boy Scouts sex abuse cover-up in Arizona
https://www.foxnews.com/us/mormon-churc ... se-arizona

Image

LDS 2021 youth manual
Image


Mormon Church slapped with lawsuit from 6 families over alleged child sexual abuse cover-up (WV)
https://www.christiandaily.com/article/ ... /61648.htm

* The Mormon Church has been accused of using a sexual assault victims hotline to protect the church from lawsuits, VICE News reported Thursday night.
* The way the church's hotline works was revealed in a lawsuit and other documents obtained by the outlet.
* VICE said the documents show that local Mormon leaders were forwarded to the church's law firm instead of being instructed to report allegations to the police.
https://www.insider.com/mormon-church-a ... ims-2019-5

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Iceberg
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Re: What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

Post by Iceberg »

As someone with a design background I know that a lot of thought and research goes into a logo. I would really like to know the back story to that logo. I was unaware of what it could mean until learning here. It bothers me when I see our youth wear shirts with it on it...is it just a unique and fun design or is there hidden meaning behind it? I have no idea but it concerns me. I am also waiting to see what 2022’s logo is.

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