What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

[Gadianton Slayer]

I'm glad the church does require other people in the building when a bishop is interviewing women etc. It's better for both parties.

It should be in the room. IMO

[Robin Hood]

I don't believe in "coincidences", especially not hundreds and thousands of them.

"Hundreds and thousands of them". Well, which is it... are there hundreds or are there thousands?
Or was it just a form of words calculated to make it sound like a lot when you really have no idea how many, if any, for sure?

There are hundreds of these accusations, take a gander through the link in the OP. I think it's safe to assume that the ones reported don't make up all of the actual situations, likely only a fraction. These people have an imposing male figure, supposedly holding their salvation in his hands, who abuses them and demands that they remain quiet. How many will speak up?

If you don't want to believe any of this RH that's fine.

I tend towards the sceptical. I'm reasonably long in the tooth and have seen these kind of stories come and go over the years. At the root there is usually someone with an axe to grind who either makes it up out of whole cloth, or manipulates the story to be more sensational and shocking. It's just the way it is.
Show me a court case and a conviction and I'll believe. The Catholics have had their problems and there is a whole string of convictions and priests in jail to prove it. I need more than hearsay and Chinese whispers.

[Robin Hood]

I'm glad the church does require other people in the building when a bishop is interviewing women etc. It's better for both parties.

It should be in the room. IMO

No it shouldn't.
Glass in the doors is usually sufficient.

[Gadianton Slayer]

I'm glad the church does require other people in the building when a bishop is interviewing women etc. It's better for both parties.

It should be in the room. IMO

No it shouldn't.

I'm thinking specifically about youth/children. You can choose to let your kids do so, I will not.

I saw your update... I've never seen a bishop's door with glass. Instead they are completely soundproof.

[zhang_daqian]

I don't believe in "coincidences", especially not hundreds and thousands of them.

"Hundreds and thousands of them". Well, which is it... are there hundreds or are there thousands?
Or was it just a form of words calculated to make it sound like a lot when you really have no idea how many, if any, for sure?

There are hundreds of these accusations, take a gander through the link in the OP. I think it's safe to assume that the ones reported don't make up all of the actual situations, likely only a fraction. These people have an imposing male figure, supposedly holding their salvation in his hands, who abuses them and demands that they remain quiet. How many will speak up?

If you don't want to believe any of this RH that's fine.

I tend towards the sceptical. I'm reasonably long in the tooth and have seen these kind of stories come and go over the years. At the root there is usually someone with an axe to grind who either makes it up out of whole cloth, or manipulates the story to be more sensational and shocking. It's just the way it is.
Show me a court case and a conviction and I'll believe. The Catholics have had their problems and there is a whole string of convictions and priests in jail to prove it. I need more than hearsay and Chinese whispers.

Sir, we believe in innocence also b/c it's in the Christian spirit but I do not know what you mean by Chinese whispers. I know my family does not appreciates this kind of phrasing if they join. We are asking questions to know what kind of church the LDS are and if they are one body like the holy scriptures teach. We want nothing of any dark ceremonies this is not in the Christian spirit.

We have not heard anything about racism in the church against Asians but we do know that the Blacks could not hold your priesthood. What did you mean by Chinese whispers sir?

[zhang_daqian]

I'm glad the church does require other people in the building when a bishop is interviewing women etc. It's better for both parties.

It should be in the room. IMO

No it shouldn't.

I'm thinking specifically about youth/children. You can choose to let your kids do so, I will not.

I saw your update... I've never seen a bishop's door with glass. Instead they are completely soundproof.

The men bishops talk to young women about things of a sex nature alone in their offices? is this true?

[Gadianton Slayer]

It should be in the room. IMO

No it shouldn't.

I'm thinking specifically about youth/children. You can choose to let your kids do so, I will not.

I saw your update... I've never seen a bishop's door with glass. Instead they are completely soundproof.

The men bishops talk to young women about things of a sex nature alone in their offices? is this true?

Technically yes. The interviews for baptism and a temple recommend both include a question about the individual’s chastity.

[zhang_daqian]

No it shouldn't.

I'm thinking specifically about youth/children. You can choose to let your kids do so, I will not.

I saw your update... I've never seen a bishop's door with glass. Instead they are completely soundproof.

The men bishops talk to young women about things of a sex nature alone in their offices? is this true?

Technically yes. The interviews for baptism and a temple recommend both include a question about the individual’s chastity.

What questions do they ask about chastity to the young girls and at what age? The mother cannot attend with the child? What interview for baptism? We haven't read anything about Jesus interviewing for baptism in the bible. We have studied some of your holy scriptures and we looked about baptism. We didn't see anything about interviews with the clergy.

[Gadianton Slayer]

I'm thinking specifically about youth/children. You can choose to let your kids do so, I will not.

I saw your update... I've never seen a bishop's door with glass. Instead they are completely soundproof.

The men bishops talk to young women about things of a sex nature alone in their offices? is this true?

Technically yes. The interviews for baptism and a temple recommend both include a question about the individual’s chastity.

What questions do they ask about chastity to the young girls and at what age? The mother cannot attend with the child? What interview for baptism? We haven't read anything about Jesus interviewing for baptism in the bible. We have studied some of your holy scriptures and we looked about baptism. We didn't see anything about interviews with the clergy.

Preach My Gospel (the manual used by LDS missionaries) lists the requirement:

• Live the principles of moral worthiness.

The question is usually, “do you live the law of chastity?”

Now, I’ve never gone beyond that question myself, but it’s my understanding that if someone has had sexual transgressions in the past that they are to tell them to the bishop or mission president.

The temple interview is very similar if not identical.

I agree with you about baptism. You may find this thread interesting:
viewtopic.php?p=1196351#p1196351

[Peeps]

The LDS Church only has full time paid ‘clergy’ at the highest levels. About 110 men in total. All local leadership - the men who conduct weekly worship services - are unpaid volunteers.

There is zero evidence - none - of any of the full time leaders of the Church being involved in the sexual abuse of children. It would be all over every newspaper in the world if there was even a hint of truth in that accusation.

The board post of Gadianton Slayer in the video the man said doctors were telling him that some of the apostles were molesting. Is that man a liar? Why don't the LDS know? Do the congregation members talk about their leaders to see if they are good or not? Yes we do not believe in paying money for ceremonies b/c of what the bible teaches. Do the full time clergy get paid for ceremonies or something else?

Yes, I would say the man is probably a liar.
At best it's hearsay.

The congregation members do not know the man? The church has grown so big so you can't speak to him if he is in Utah or ask the apostles? We can't tell if there is dark ceremonies in the LDS or not. Does anyone on this board practice them or know those who do? In China some practice openly or everyone knows but the government is ok to let them.

If there are members of this forum that practice dark ceremonies/arts (and there probably are some that do just that) they will keep it a secret. That is what members of secret societies do here in the western world, pretend to be good moral Christians or become involved in charitable organizations, but really these organizations are really plotting and scheming with all the dark magick imaginable, some beyond imagination. The lower level members may not be aware what the upper levels are up to.

[zhang_daqian]

The men bishops talk to young women about things of a sex nature alone in their offices? is this true?

Technically yes. The interviews for baptism and a temple recommend both include a question about the individual’s chastity.

What questions do they ask about chastity to the young girls and at what age? The mother cannot attend with the child? What interview for baptism? We haven't read anything about Jesus interviewing for baptism in the bible. We have studied some of your holy scriptures and we looked about baptism. We didn't see anything about interviews with the clergy.

Preach My Gospel (the manual used by LDS missionaries) lists the requirement:

• Live the principles of moral worthiness.

The question is usually, “do you live the law of chastity?”

Now, I’ve never gone beyond that question myself, but it’s my understanding that if someone has had sexual transgressions in the past that they are to tell them to the bishop or mission president.

The temple interview is very similar if not identical.

I agree with you about baptism. You may find this thread interesting:
viewtopic.php?p=1196351#p1196351

We don't know anything in the bible about a temple interview but we have read nothing about baptism interviewing. We can't account for it in the bible so we will pray about the interviewing but we did not read about Jesus asking specific questions. We only know you have to have faith in Jesus and shows works meet for repentance to be baptized. We only follow the baptism of Jesus and how he showed his apostles. We only practice ceremonies after Jesus's way to stay in the Christian spirit. We don't follow any other spirits and we are trying to make sense of the molestings b/c we believe some of the men in your scripture books were holy prophets but we will not practice ceremonies of evil spirits.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Technically yes. The interviews for baptism and a temple recommend both include a question about the individual’s chastity.

What questions do they ask about chastity to the young girls and at what age? The mother cannot attend with the child? What interview for baptism? We haven't read anything about Jesus interviewing for baptism in the bible. We have studied some of your holy scriptures and we looked about baptism. We didn't see anything about interviews with the clergy.

Preach My Gospel (the manual used by LDS missionaries) lists the requirement:

• Live the principles of moral worthiness.

The question is usually, “do you live the law of chastity?”

Now, I’ve never gone beyond that question myself, but it’s my understanding that if someone has had sexual transgressions in the past that they are to tell them to the bishop or mission president.

The temple interview is very similar if not identical.

I agree with you about baptism. You may find this thread interesting:
viewtopic.php?p=1196351#p1196351

We don't know anything in the bible about a temple interview but we have read nothing about baptism interviewing. We can't account for it in the bible so we will pray about the interviewing but we did not read about Jesus asking specific questions. We only know you have to have faith in Jesus and shows works meet for repentance to be baptized. We only follow the baptism of Jesus and how he showed his apostles. We only practice ceremonies after Jesus's way to stay in the Christian spirit. We don't follow any other spirits and we are trying to make sense of the molestings b/c we believe some of the men in your scripture books were holy prophets but we will not practice ceremonies of evil spirits.

I agree with you 100%. I am no longer a member of the LDS church myself, but still believe strongly in the Book of Mormon and in the process you just explained.

[Robin Hood]

I'm glad the church does require other people in the building when a bishop is interviewing women etc. It's better for both parties.

It should be in the room. IMO

No it shouldn't.

I'm thinking specifically about youth/children. You can choose to let your kids do so, I will not.

I saw your update... I've never seen a bishop's door with glass. Instead they are completely soundproof.

In the UK all meetinghouse doors to classrooms, bishops office etc have glass.

[Gadianton Slayer]

It should be in the room. IMO

No it shouldn't.

I'm thinking specifically about youth/children. You can choose to let your kids do so, I will not.

I saw your update... I've never seen a bishop's door with glass. Instead they are completely soundproof.

In the UK all meetinghouse doors to classrooms, bishops office etc have glass.

Interesting. Yeah that’s definitely not the case here.

[zhang_daqian]

The board post of Gadianton Slayer in the video the man said doctors were telling him that some of the apostles were molesting. Is that man a liar? Why don't the LDS know? Do the congregation members talk about their leaders to see if they are good or not? Yes we do not believe in paying money for ceremonies b/c of what the bible teaches. Do the full time clergy get paid for ceremonies or something else?

Yes, I would say the man is probably a liar.
At best it's hearsay.

The congregation members do not know the man? The church has grown so big so you can't speak to him if he is in Utah or ask the apostles? We can't tell if there is dark ceremonies in the LDS or not. Does anyone on this board practice them or know those who do? In China some practice openly or everyone knows but the government is ok to let them.

If there are members of this forum that practice dark ceremonies/arts (and there probably are some that do just that) they will keep it a secret. That is what members of secret societies do here in the western world, pretend to be good moral Christians or become involved in charitable organizations, but really these organizations are really plotting and scheming with all the dark magick imaginable, some beyond imagination. The lower level members may not be aware what the upper levels are up to.

Yes we have secret churches in the east also and some are very high dark priests. Many in the government are very high in dark ceremonies and pray to the spirits. Also there are churches who practice evil ceremonies in public so the congregation becomes dark priests same as the times of Moses's law. Our sorcery is ancient in the east but we don't know about the western ceremonious except from the internet.

[Peeps]

Yes, I would say the man is probably a liar.
At best it's hearsay.

The congregation members do not know the man? The church has grown so big so you can't speak to him if he is in Utah or ask the apostles? We can't tell if there is dark ceremonies in the LDS or not. Does anyone on this board practice them or know those who do? In China some practice openly or everyone knows but the government is ok to let them.

If there are members of this forum that practice dark ceremonies/arts (and there probably are some that do just that) they will keep it a secret. That is what members of secret societies do here in the western world, pretend to be good moral Christians or become involved in charitable organizations, but really these organizations are really plotting and scheming with all the dark magick imaginable, some beyond imagination. The lower level members may not be aware what the upper levels are up to.

Yes we have secret churches in the east also and some are very high dark priests. Many in the government are very high in dark ceremonies and pray to the spirits. Also there are churches who practice evil ceremonies in public so the congregation becomes dark priests same as the times of Moses's law. Our sorcery is ancient in the east but we don't know about the western ceremonious except from the internet.

Jesus Christ is the truth that shines from the east to the west.

Isaiah 43
4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.

5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;

7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

[zhang_daqian]

The congregation members do not know the man? The church has grown so big so you can't speak to him if he is in Utah or ask the apostles? We can't tell if there is dark ceremonies in the LDS or not. Does anyone on this board practice them or know those who do? In China some practice openly or everyone knows but the government is ok to let them.

If there are members of this forum that practice dark ceremonies/arts (and there probably are some that do just that) they will keep it a secret. That is what members of secret societies do here in the western world, pretend to be good moral Christians or become involved in charitable organizations, but really these organizations are really plotting and scheming with all the dark magick imaginable, some beyond imagination. The lower level members may not be aware what the upper levels are up to.

Yes we have secret churches in the east also and some are very high dark priests. Many in the government are very high in dark ceremonies and pray to the spirits. Also there are churches who practice evil ceremonies in public so the congregation becomes dark priests same as the times of Moses's law. Our sorcery is ancient in the east but we don't know about the western ceremonious except from the internet.

Jesus Christ is the truth that shines from the east to the west.

Isaiah 43
4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.

5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;

7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Yes Isaiah was a powerful holy prophet who had visions of Israel. We can't make sense of all his words yet but we are asking Jesus to tell us through his spirit to know their meaning.
The wise men from the east read the heaven chart to identify the Messiah child.

[gradles21]

The other obvious case is with the former MTC president confessing on tape to sexually assaulting sister missionaries. One wonders how often this kind of thing has occurred. I give most of them benefit of the doubt, but probably more often than we've heard of. I'm excluding false accusations of course.

Thing is, he didn't confess to anything on tape. Have you heard it?
It turns out that this story is likely untrue and the accuser has got previous for something similar.

I'm maybe getting false memory syndrome myself here, but I seem to recall he did 'fess up to something and even apologised.

I seem to remember him confessing to massaging her shoulders and touching her breasts, and constantly apologizing to her for the damage he did. IIRC she kept bringing up rape in a basement room but he denied that.

[zhang_daqian]

The other obvious case is with the former MTC president confessing on tape to sexually assaulting sister missionaries. One wonders how often this kind of thing has occurred. I give most of them benefit of the doubt, but probably more often than we've heard of. I'm excluding false accusations of course.

Thing is, he didn't confess to anything on tape. Have you heard it?
It turns out that this story is likely untrue and the accuser has got previous for something similar.

I'm maybe getting false memory syndrome myself here, but I seem to recall he did 'fess up to something and even apologised.

I seem to remember him confessing to massaging her shoulders and touching her breasts, and constantly apologizing to her for the damage he did. IIRC she kept bringing up rape in a basement room but he denied that.

Yes who is the president of the MTC? Is he a priest? We do not want any involvement in groping or sex touching. Is he a leader in the congregation of Mormons?

[Niemand]

I'm glad the church does require other people in the building when a bishop is interviewing women etc. It's better for both parties.

It should be in the room. IMO

Difficult if they are disclosing personal information.

[Gadianton Slayer]

I'm glad the church does require other people in the building when a bishop is interviewing women etc. It's better for both parties.

It should be in the room. IMO

Difficult if they are disclosing personal information.

I say for kids... doesn’t really matter. There’s nothing your child, boy or girl, should be telling your bishop that they can’t tell you.

Unless of course it’s abuse BY your parents but in that case the child should go to someone other than the bishop anyways.

[zhang_daqian]

What questions do they ask about chastity to the young girls and at what age? The mother cannot attend with the child? What interview for baptism? We haven't read anything about Jesus interviewing for baptism in the bible. We have studied some of your holy scriptures and we looked about baptism. We didn't see anything about interviews with the clergy.

Preach My Gospel (the manual used by LDS missionaries) lists the requirement:

• Live the principles of moral worthiness.

The question is usually, “do you live the law of chastity?”

Now, I’ve never gone beyond that question myself, but it’s my understanding that if someone has had sexual transgressions in the past that they are to tell them to the bishop or mission president.

The temple interview is very similar if not identical.

I agree with you about baptism. You may find this thread interesting:
viewtopic.php?p=1196351#p1196351

We don't know anything in the bible about a temple interview but we have read nothing about baptism interviewing. We can't account for it in the bible so we will pray about the interviewing but we did not read about Jesus asking specific questions. We only know you have to have faith in Jesus and shows works meet for repentance to be baptized. We only follow the baptism of Jesus and how he showed his apostles. We only practice ceremonies after Jesus's way to stay in the Christian spirit. We don't follow any other spirits and we are trying to make sense of the molestings b/c we believe some of the men in your scripture books were holy prophets but we will not practice ceremonies of evil spirits.

I agree with you 100%. I am no longer a member of the LDS church myself, but still believe strongly in the Book of Mormon and in the process you just explained.

Why do you not fellowship with the LDS congregation any longer? How many do you know who say they were molested?

[Gadianton Slayer]

Preach My Gospel (the manual used by LDS missionaries) lists the requirement:

• Live the principles of moral worthiness.

The question is usually, “do you live the law of chastity?”

Now, I’ve never gone beyond that question myself, but it’s my understanding that if someone has had sexual transgressions in the past that they are to tell them to the bishop or mission president.

The temple interview is very similar if not identical.

I agree with you about baptism. You may find this thread interesting:
viewtopic.php?p=1196351#p1196351

We don't know anything in the bible about a temple interview but we have read nothing about baptism interviewing. We can't account for it in the bible so we will pray about the interviewing but we did not read about Jesus asking specific questions. We only know you have to have faith in Jesus and shows works meet for repentance to be baptized. We only follow the baptism of Jesus and how he showed his apostles. We only practice ceremonies after Jesus's way to stay in the Christian spirit. We don't follow any other spirits and we are trying to make sense of the molestings b/c we believe some of the men in your scripture books were holy prophets but we will not practice ceremonies of evil spirits.

I agree with you 100%. I am no longer a member of the LDS church myself, but still believe strongly in the Book of Mormon and in the process you just explained.

Why do you not fellowship with the LDS congregation any longer? How many do you know who say they were molested?

I'll send you a private message.

[zhang_daqian]

These are some of the cases that I am not feeling are showing the Christian spirit among the LDS congregations
-----
LDS Robert Gene Metcalf "This case was filed in Maricopa County Superior Court in May
1993. In 1979, Gail Metcalf walked in on her husband, Gene Metcalf, and witnessed him
having anal sex with a 13 year old boy who had been residing with them. He was sentenced
to prison for six years for his misconduct with the boy as well as with Gail's children. She
divorced him and the Church excommunicated him. His parental rights were not terminated,
but a six-month no contact order was entered following his release from prison.
In 1987, Gail Metcalf developed a brain tumor and needed extensive medical treatment.
She contacted her local Bishop to discuss what will happen to her children while she is
hospitalized. Her civil lawsuit alleges that she was ordered by her Bishop and the Stake
President to send her children to live with Gene Metcalf and they would monitor the
situation for her making certain the children were safe. She sent them to live with him for
eight months when they were molested again. At his sentencing, there was heavy lobbying
by politicians connected to the Church in defense of Gene Metcalf. Local Bishops involved
and who may be named defendants are Grant Shumway and Don Excell. The case was
resolved with an undisclosed settlement on behalf of the Metcalf children."
-----
“From at least the 1960s if not earlier, LDS Defendants knew that LDS callings and
assignments were being used by pedophiles to victimize children and that LDS Defendants
had an institution-wide child abuse problem. Despite this knowledge, LDS Defendants did
not implement adequate child sex abuse policies.83.This institutional failure by LDS
Defendants was a substantial contributing factor to the abuse of Plaintiffs. LDS Defendants’
failure to implement adequate child abuse policies created a foreseeable risk of harm to the
safety of children in the care of the LDS Defendants, including these plaintiffs.84.As a direct
and foreseeable consequence of LDS Defendants’ negligence as described above, Plaintiffs
have suffered damages as described in paragraphs. “During the time all Plaintiffs were
sexually abused by Dykes, LDS Defendants had knowledge or should have known of
Dykes’ dangerousness to children. In or about 1981 or1982, LDS Defendants discovered
that Dykes had sexually abused a minor child who was a LDS member and scout, and LDS
Defendants conducted their own investigation into the allegations.”
DYKE-Timur Van Dykes 1-Complaint.pdf
-----
LDS Burrell Mohler Sr, his brother and his four sons were charged with 42 counts of child
sexual abuse. "But a church bishop, Paul Tonga, made the idiotic decision to investigate
the matter himself. The Star reported that Burrell Jr. was excommunicated from the LDS
church in 2007 for personal conduct unrelated to child sexual abuse." "For its part, the
Mormon church has said Bishop Tonga should have consulted with church leaders, who
would have told him to notify the authorities." In the early 1990s some of the grandchildren
reportedly went to their mother about the abuse, according to poice documents. Instead of
going to law enforcement, she told the head of her Mormon church. And nothing
happened." MOHLER-Burrell Mohler 1.pdf "Investigators seized several dozen videotapes
from on Mohler son's house"
-----
“Most of these abuse cases were referred to the legal system by individuals other than religious leaders, and yet in many of the cases the abuse had been brought to the attention of clergy members long before it was reported to the authorities."
"One particular incest case I worked with had been reported to six different bishops, and none of those bishops reported it to the authorities. The molestation continued for a period of eleven years.”7
-----

We cannot make any sense of it b/c we believe Alma is a prophet and maybe the boy prophet Joseph was one also. But no one we have spoken to has been able to explain it to us why this is happening.

[Gadianton Slayer]

We cannot make any sense of it b/c we believe Alma is a prophet and maybe the boy prophet Joseph was one also. But no one we have spoken to has been able to explain it to us why this is happening.

Joseph brought forth and translated the Book of Mormon, after that the LDS church became corrupt.