What do you guys know about hiding sexual abuse in the LDS church?

[zhang_daqian]

Hi all,

I'm trying to find more information about the LDS church hiding instances of abuse within their leadership ranks b/c I'm not sure how much it happens but I want to know for safety reasons. The main form of abuse taking place is sexual and sometimes psychological/grooming from what I'm finding. Do people know about this stuff on this site? I was told people on here know a lot of "insider" church info,

Here is a link to a very extensive document listing many instances of sexual abuse with some being tried and some alleged from 1959-2017. What i'm getting from it is that they used their legal team to do a type of a legal maneuvering around it usually
https://www.hurley-law.com/wp-content/u ... 017-06.pdf

Is this very common in the ranks in areas like Utah with more members? Is pill addiction common? Or is it more likely in rural type areas?
Is this document overblown in peoples' opinions?

Thank you

[Gadianton Slayer]

You can view or download this from my drive:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15WT-j8 ... p=drivesdk

[Gadianton Slayer]

[Alexander]

American Crime Journal (ACJ) began investigating and questioning the operations and finances of (Operation Underground Railroad) in 2019. Operation Underground Railroad is a United States-based nonprofit organization whose stated goal is to assist government agencies in the rescue of human trafficking and sex trafficking victims.

Who else but the legal arm of the LDS Church, the law firm Kirton McConkie, come to OUR's aid.
The firm is notorious for sex-abuse cover in the church.

Seems suspicious to me.

[zhang_daqian]

American Crime Journal (ACJ) began investigating and questioning the operations and finances of (Operation Underground Railroad) in 2019. Operation Underground Railroad is a United States-based nonprofit organization whose stated goal is to assist government agencies in the rescue of human trafficking and sex trafficking victims.

Who else but the legal arm of the LDS Church, the law firm Kirton McConkie, come to OUR's aid.
The firm is notorious for sex-abuse cover in the church.

Seems suspicious to me.

I have never known about ACJ or OUR but I am going to research them online. The LDS have a legal firm as part of their church? They use them to cover up molestings? We are trying to avoid anything like that.

[zhang_daqian]

The LDS clergy is molesting the LDS children it seems to be. Apostle is the highest clergy position? So the man in the video said the whole of Utah are covering it up and the LDS are like the Catholics and Jehovahs witness then. I don't think I can let my family join if this is true. Did the boy prophet Joseph do this once he was older? What about the larger man who came after him?

[Peeps]

The LDS clergy is molesting the LDS children it seems to be. Apostle is the highest clergy position? So the man in the video said the whole of Utah are covering it up and the LDS are like the Catholics and Jehovahs witness then. I don't think I can let my family join if this is true. Did the boy prophet Joseph do this once he was older? What about the larger man who came after him?

Also, there is the Glenn Pace memo:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_memorandum

And ...

Jesus Christ is the ONLY way, the truth, the light, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Him. It does not matter what Joseph Smith said, or the nonsense Brigham Young said about needing a certificate from Joseph to get to the celestial kingdom.

[LukeAir2008]

The LDS clergy is molesting the LDS children it seems to be. Apostle is the highest clergy position? So the man in the video said the whole of Utah are covering it up and the LDS are like the Catholics and Jehovahs witness then. I don't think I can let my family join if this is true. Did the boy prophet Joseph do this once he was older? What about the larger man who came after him?

The LDS Church only has full time paid ‘clergy’ at the highest levels. About 110 men in total. All local leadership - the men who conduct weekly worship services - are unpaid volunteers.

There is zero evidence - none - of any of the full time leaders of the Church being involved in the sexual abuse of children. It would be all over every newspaper in the world if there was even a hint of truth in that accusation.

[Robin Hood]

The LDS clergy is molesting the LDS children it seems to be. Apostle is the highest clergy position? So the man in the video said the whole of Utah are covering it up and the LDS are like the Catholics and Jehovahs witness then. I don't think I can let my family join if this is true. Did the boy prophet Joseph do this once he was older? What about the larger man who came after him?

The LDS Church only has full time paid ‘clergy’ at the highest levels. About 110 men in total. All local leadership - the men who conduct weekly worship services - are unpaid volunteers.

There is zero evidence - none - of any of the full time leaders of the Church being involved in the sexual abuse of children. It would be all over every newspaper in the world if there was even a hint of truth in that accusation.

Don't forget George P. Lee.

[LukeAir2008]

The LDS clergy is molesting the LDS children it seems to be. Apostle is the highest clergy position? So the man in the video said the whole of Utah are covering it up and the LDS are like the Catholics and Jehovahs witness then. I don't think I can let my family join if this is true. Did the boy prophet Joseph do this once he was older? What about the larger man who came after him?

The LDS Church only has full time paid ‘clergy’ at the highest levels. About 110 men in total. All local leadership - the men who conduct weekly worship services - are unpaid volunteers.

There is zero evidence - none - of any of the full time leaders of the Church being involved in the sexual abuse of children. It would be all over every newspaper in the world if there was even a hint of truth in that accusation.

Don't forget George P. Lee.

Oh yeh, I forgot about him.

[Gadianton Slayer]

There is zero evidence - none - of any of the full time leaders of the Church being involved in the sexual abuse of children. It would be all over every newspaper in the world if there was even a hint of truth in that accusation.

What about the allegations against RMN’s daughter and son-in-law? (Which he was part of)

It was dropped solely due to the statute of limitations, and when it was all over the media in 2019 RMN had the members hold a “7-day social media fast” that exact week.

Connect the dots.

https://www.fox13now.com/2018/10/03/law ... -president

If they cover it up in their “lower ranks”, how much better do you think they’d be at hiding their own?

Secret combinations are usually just that, secret.

[Robin Hood]

There is zero evidence - none - of any of the full time leaders of the Church being involved in the sexual abuse of children. It would be all over every newspaper in the world if there was even a hint of truth in that accusation.

What about the allegations against RMN’s daughter and son-in-law? (Which he was part of)

It was dropped solely due to the statute of limitations, and when it was all over the media in 2019 RMN had the members hold a “7-day social media fast” that exact week.

Connect the dots.

https://www.fox13now.com/2018/10/03/law ... -president

If they cover it up in their “lower ranks”, how much better do you think they’d be at hiding their own?

Secret combinations are usually just that, secret.

The social media "fast" was only for the women of the church.

[Niemand]

There is zero evidence - none - of any of the full time leaders of the Church being involved in the sexual abuse of children. It would be all over every newspaper in the world if there was even a hint of truth in that accusation.

What about the allegations against RMN’s daughter and son-in-law? (Which he was part of)

It was dropped solely due to the statute of limitations, and when it was all over the media in 2019 RMN had the members hold a “7-day social media fast” that exact week.

Connect the dots.

https://www.fox13now.com/2018/10/03/law ... -president

If they cover it up in their “lower ranks”, how much better do you think they’d be at hiding their own?

Secret combinations are usually just that, secret.

The social media "fast" was only for the women of the church.

True, but the timing does seem fishy.

Social media fasts are actually one of Pres. Nelson's better ideas.

[John Tavner]

The LDS clergy is molesting the LDS children it seems to be. Apostle is the highest clergy position? So the man in the video said the whole of Utah are covering it up and the LDS are like the Catholics and Jehovahs witness then. I don't think I can let my family join if this is true. Did the boy prophet Joseph do this once he was older? What about the larger man who came after him?

Like all places, some people are good and some bad. Some are good in the church and some are bad. Some are wolves in sheep's clothing and some are sheep and there are a few shepherds. If you are a believing man, I would pray and ask if it is right - or whether to give them the decision or not and just have your family realize there are some dangers - but in today's world, there are dangers everywhere - including other denominations and non-denominational churches, because wolves like to eat sheep. However, just because there are wolves doesn't mean we don't go out to eat grass. A community of believers is important and being baptized unto repentance is important. Most importantly baptism is not solely to get into an organization, it's purpose is to give up your life to bear the Lord's name. To give up your old life of sin and to take upon ourselves the rightoeusness of Christ and to let His grace change us into His image. If they haven't had a chance to be baptized yet with that purpose in their heart, I would at least let them try and seek someone to obtain that, because that act can be a blessing as well as communicating among other believers. A society that is truly seeking Christ together is a beautiful society.

2 Nephi 31:13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

Matthew 28:19

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

Baptism is the symbol of death in our old ways and life in a new way, accepting Christ, but living as if our past is dead. It is the first sign of repentance (turning towards God) when one desires to be baptized they are showing they truly desire to accept the mercy of hte Lord and live a new life, bearing/carrying the name of the Lord to others, so that when others see them, they also see Christ in them.

As an aside, the church will not save your family, only Christ, but baptism is an important part of becoming a part of the body of Christ if they are able to do so. Good luck in your decisions!

[Gadianton Slayer]

There is zero evidence - none - of any of the full time leaders of the Church being involved in the sexual abuse of children. It would be all over every newspaper in the world if there was even a hint of truth in that accusation.

What about the allegations against RMN’s daughter and son-in-law? (Which he was part of)

It was dropped solely due to the statute of limitations, and when it was all over the media in 2019 RMN had the members hold a “7-day social media fast” that exact week.

Connect the dots.

https://www.fox13now.com/2018/10/03/law ... -president

If they cover it up in their “lower ranks”, how much better do you think they’d be at hiding their own?

Secret combinations are usually just that, secret.

The social media "fast" was only for the women of the church.

I know he spoke to the women, but the message was then passed down. I can’t speak for everyone, but our local leaders had everyone participate. My stake did. I wouldn’t doubt that it came down the chain that all stakes should do it.

Seems like a lot of their uncomfortable counsel comes trickling down the chain like that.

[Robin Hood]

There is zero evidence - none - of any of the full time leaders of the Church being involved in the sexual abuse of children. It would be all over every newspaper in the world if there was even a hint of truth in that accusation.

What about the allegations against RMN’s daughter and son-in-law? (Which he was part of)

It was dropped solely due to the statute of limitations, and when it was all over the media in 2019 RMN had the members hold a “7-day social media fast” that exact week.

Connect the dots.

https://www.fox13now.com/2018/10/03/law ... -president

If they cover it up in their “lower ranks”, how much better do you think they’d be at hiding their own?

Secret combinations are usually just that, secret.

The social media "fast" was only for the women of the church.

I know he spoke to the women, but the message was then passed down. I can’t speak for everyone, but our local leaders had everyone participate. My stake did. I wouldn’t doubt that it came down the chain that all stakes should do it.

Seems like a lot of their uncomfortable counsel comes trickling down the chain like that.

I think it's more than a stretch to believe that the reason for the social media fast was to bury the paedo story. It assumes:
1. The story would only be reported on social media and not msm.
2. That everyone would observe the fast.

Nah, not buying it.

[Gadianton Slayer]

What about the allegations against RMN’s daughter and son-in-law? (Which he was part of)

It was dropped solely due to the statute of limitations, and when it was all over the media in 2019 RMN had the members hold a “7-day social media fast” that exact week.

Connect the dots.

https://www.fox13now.com/2018/10/03/law ... -president

If they cover it up in their “lower ranks”, how much better do you think they’d be at hiding their own?

Secret combinations are usually just that, secret.

The social media "fast" was only for the women of the church.

I know he spoke to the women, but the message was then passed down. I can’t speak for everyone, but our local leaders had everyone participate. My stake did. I wouldn’t doubt that it came down the chain that all stakes should do it.

Seems like a lot of their uncomfortable counsel comes trickling down the chain like that.

I think it's more than a stretch to believe that the reason for the social media fast was to bury the paedo story. It assumes:
1. The story would only be reported on social media and not msm.
2. That everyone would observe the fast.

Nah, not buying it.

I see what you mean. Like Niemand said, the timing is fishy. There are a few other things that convince me the current fab 15 participate, but that’s not quite in shareable form. (It’s not my work either, I stopped studying this topic a while ago...)

There is scriptural evidence that churches in the last days are all corrupt/polluted, and the Gentiles specially participate in murders, lying, whoredom, and abominations. I don’t think that the LDS org is exempt from any of that.

If those things aren’t what I think they are, that’s fine... but they are there.

[LukeAir2008]

There is zero evidence - none - of any of the full time leaders of the Church being involved in the sexual abuse of children. It would be all over every newspaper in the world if there was even a hint of truth in that accusation.

What about the allegations against RMN’s daughter and son-in-law? (Which he was part of)

It was dropped solely due to the statute of limitations, and when it was all over the media in 2019 RMN had the members hold a “7-day social media fast” that exact week.

Connect the dots.

https://www.fox13now.com/2018/10/03/law ... -president

If they cover it up in their “lower ranks”, how much better do you think they’d be at hiding their own?

Secret combinations are usually just that, secret.

Oh sorry, I didn’t realise that RMN’s daughter and son-in-law were Church leaders.

[Gadianton Slayer]

There is zero evidence - none - of any of the full time leaders of the Church being involved in the sexual abuse of children. It would be all over every newspaper in the world if there was even a hint of truth in that accusation.

What about the allegations against RMN’s daughter and son-in-law? (Which he was part of)

It was dropped solely due to the statute of limitations, and when it was all over the media in 2019 RMN had the members hold a “7-day social media fast” that exact week.

Connect the dots.

https://www.fox13now.com/2018/10/03/law ... -president

If they cover it up in their “lower ranks”, how much better do you think they’d be at hiding their own?

Secret combinations are usually just that, secret.

Oh sorry, I didn’t realise that RMN’s daughter and son-in-law were Church leaders.

Like I said, there are some dots to connect. Do you see how significant it is if Nelson is hiding sexual abuse in his own family?

If they are guilty (which is really still undecided by the courts) then Nelson would likely be aware. Are there no repercussions for something like this? The same can be asked about any church leader or member involved in sex abuse, and there are hundreds if not thousands of cases as listed in the links above.

If someone is hiding this, they are just as guilty. I would even take it to mean they are participating themselves. They obviously think it’s ok, because his daughter is still a member.

This all depends on if they did it or not, I think they did, others think they didn’t. It’s clear that this is happening throughout LDS leadership though.

Why aren’t we seeing a mass excommunication of these perverts abusing children?

[Robin Hood]

This video is highly edited.

[Gadianton Slayer]

This video is highly edited.

I'm curious which parts you don't believe or deem insufficient?

[Robin Hood]

This video is highly edited.

I'm curious which parts you don't believe or deem insufficient?

It's not about belief or otherwise, it's about credibility. When we have snippets of telephone conversations selected but clearly only the bits which promote the narrative, it makes me immediately suspicious. What was on the rest of the tape and why were we not allowed to hear it?
Also, the guy does what a lot of attention seekers do, he bigged himself up at the start, telling us he rubs shoulders with famous people and they all think he's great etc.
I saw this video a few years ago and it struck me as being mostly nonsense at the time. What happened to the team of psychologists investigating the claims against two apostles? Crickets....

I've seen things like this come and go over the years and nothing ever comes of it because usually it's a non-story inflated by some nobody craving his 15 minutes of fame.

[Gadianton Slayer]

This video is highly edited.

I'm curious which parts you don't believe or deem insufficient?

It's not about belief or otherwise, it's about credibility. When we have snippets of telephone conversations selected but clearly only the bits which promote the narrative, it makes me immediately suspicious. What was on the rest of the tape and why were we not allowed to hear it?
Also, the guy does what a lot of attention seekers do, he bigged himself up at the start, telling us he rubs shoulders with famous people and they all think he's great etc.
I saw this video a few years ago and it struck me as being mostly nonsense at the time. What happened to the team of psychologists investigating the claims against two apostles? Crickets....

I've seen things like this come and go over the years and nothing ever comes of it because usually it's a non-story inflated by some nobody craving his 15 minutes of fame.

Gotcha. Yeah, I understand the concern. I do think he brings up valid questions especially surrounding his personal experience (ex: the church and his ex-wife dropping everything so quickly) that should be considered.

If this were an isolated incident, it would hold relatively no significance. Karren could just be bitter about his divorce and blame it on Mickelsen and the church. But it's not isolated, and this happens often. I know people personally who have either been abused or had family abused, some in the basement of the SL temple, by church leaders (not my names to share, so ignore it if that bothers you).

My question is... if this isn't a big deal in the leadership of the church, why the active and aggressive cover-up of all of these incidents? As Hinckley put it, "a blip here and a blip there"...

[zhang_daqian]

The LDS clergy is molesting the LDS children it seems to be. Apostle is the highest clergy position? So the man in the video said the whole of Utah are covering it up and the LDS are like the Catholics and Jehovahs witness then. I don't think I can let my family join if this is true. Did the boy prophet Joseph do this once he was older? What about the larger man who came after him?

Also, there is the Glenn Pace memo:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_memorandum

And ...

Jesus Christ is the ONLY way, the truth, the light, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Him. It does not matter what Joseph Smith said, or the nonsense Brigham Young said about needing a certificate from Joseph to get to the celestial kingdom.

Yes this is a letter I saw before. I am not keen about it. What did the LDS do about it? These are the ceremonies we are trying to avoid. They are the ceremonies of the Satan the opposer. They capture the soul, only the blood of Jesus can save it. Your holy books teach it.

[NeveR]

This video is SHOCKING - is it real?