Tobit & Book of Mormon + NT

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Niemand
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Tobit & Book of Mormon + NT

Post by Niemand »

Somebody's probably done this before, but I thought it would be interesting to go through the books of the Apocrypha, especially given Ezra/Esdras' eagle. It's a long while since I read it.

D&C 91 says
‘There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly; There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are interpolations by the hands of men."

It also states we should be led by the Spirit in these things. But it is not a total write off off the books. I thought I would start with Tobit. Tobit's two main legacies are the name Toby/Tobias, and the fame of the demon Asmodeus.

Tobit and the Book of Mormon
In Tobit 1:3-4, you can see some similarities to the Book of Mormon straight away, notably the "I, narrator" line:
I Tobit have walked all the days of my life in the ways of truth and justice, and I did many almsdeeds to my brethren, and my nation, who came with me to Nineveh, into the land of the Assyrians.

4And when I was in mine own country, in the land of Israel being but young, all the tribe of Nephthali my father fell from the house of Jerusalem, which was chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, that all the tribes should sacrifice there, where the temple of the habitation of the most High was consecrated and built for all ages.
Plot
The part I remember most from this was the blind man having his sight restored which reminds me of the New Testament.

Image

Stolen from https://www.abibleaday.com/bible-books/tobit/
The book is the account of Tobit, an Israelite originally from the Northern Kingdom of Israel, who was deported to Nineveh. In distress over his life, misfortune, and blindness, he asks God to let him die.

In another city, Sarah also giving up on life, makes a similar request. God hears both their prayers, sending the angel Raphael in disguise to help them both, with the help of Tobit’s son Tobiah.
Image
Tobiah makes a journey with Raphael on his father‘s behalf to retrieve some money. Along the way he is attacked by a fish, which he seizes at Raphael’s prompting. He later meets and marries Sarah.

From the fish he makes a potion that he uses to drive the demon Asmedeus from Sarah and to restore his father’s sight.
Raphael reveals his true identity as an angel, and Tobit sings a song of praise. The book ends with Tobit telling Tobiah to leave Nineveh before it is destroyed. Tobit dies at the ripe age of 112.
Very superficial, but I'd be interested in any other views.
Last edited by Niemand on November 9th, 2021, 6:55 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Niemand
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Re: Tobit - Apocrypha

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References and similarities to Tobit in the New Testament.

Giving to the poor
Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me
Tobit 4:7
give alms from your possessions, and do not let your eye begrudge the gift when you make it. Do not turn your face away from anyone who is poor, and the face of God will not be turned away from you.
Tobit 4:8
If you have many possessions, make your gift from them in proportion; if few, do not be afraid to give according to the little you have.

Tobit 4:10
For almsgiving delivers from death and keeps you from going into the Darkness.
Tobit 4:16
Give of thy bread to the hungry, and of thy garments to them that are naked; and according to thine abundance give alms: and let not thine eye be envious, when thou givest alms.
Matthew 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me...
Fast offering
Tobit 12:8
Prayer is good with fasting and alms and righteousness. A little with righteousness is better than much with unrighteousness. It is better to give alms than to lay up gold
Interesting that a version of the Golden Rule appears in Tobit 4:15
Do that to no man which thou hatest: drink not wine to make thee drunken: neither let drunkenness go with thee in thy journey.
Seven Spirits/Angels
Revelation 1:4 ... Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne
Tobit 12:15 –“I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels, which present the prayers of the saints, and which go in and out before the glory of the Holy One.”
Ministering of Angels
Revelation 8:3-4 – And another angel came and stood at the altar... he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
Tobit 12:12,15 – So now when you and Sarah prayed, it was I [the archangel Raphael] who brought and read the record of your prayer before the glory of the Lord, and likewise whenever you would bury the dead.
The New Jerusalem/Heavenly city
Revelation 21:19 – The wall is built of jasper, while the city is pure gold, clear as glass. 19 The foundations of the wall of the city are adorned with every jewel... the fourth emerald.. and the street of the city is pure gold, transparent as glass.
Tobit 13:18 – The gates of Jerusalem will be built with sapphire and emerald, and all your walls with precious stones. The towers of Jerusalem will be built with gold, and their battlements with pure gold. The streets of Jerusalem will be paved with ruby and with stones of Ophir.
The Seven Men
Matthew 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 – Now there were seven brothers; the first married, and died childless; ……..
Tobit 3:8 – For she had been married to seven husbands, and the wicked demon Asmodeus had killed each of them …
Tobit 7:11 – I have given her to seven men of our kinsmen, and all died on the night when they went in to her ….

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Niemand
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Re: Tobit - Apocrypha

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Tobit and the Book of Mormon

Opening
1 Tobit 3 I, Tobit have walked all the days of my life in the ways of truth and justice, and I did many almsdeeds to my brethren, and my nation, who came with me to Nineveh, into the land of the Assyrians.
1 Nephi 1 I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days...
Alms
Tobit 12:8 It is better to give alms than to lay up gold.
3 Nephi 13:1 Verily, verily, I say that I would that ye should do alms unto the poor
3 Nephi 13:20-21 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Inherit the Land
Tobit 4:12
“Beware of all whoredom, my son, and chiefly take a wife of the seed of thy fathers, and take not a strange woman to wife, which is not of thy father's tribe: for we are the children of the prophets, Noe [Noah], Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: remember, my son, that our fathers from the beginning, even that they all married wives of their own kindred, and were blessed in their children, and their seed shall inherit the land.
2 Nephi 4.11 And after he had made an end of speaking unto them, he spake unto Sam, saying: Blessed art thou, and thy seed; for thou shalt inherit the land like unto thy brother Nephi. And thy seed shall be numbered with his seed; and thou shalt be even like unto thy brother, and thy seed like unto his seed; and thou shalt be blessed in all thy days.
Turn to Christ
Tobit 13:6 6
If ye turn to him with your whole heart, and with your whole mind, and deal uprightly before him, then will he turn unto you, and will not hide his face from you. Therefore see what he will do with you, and confess him with your whole mouth, and praise the Lord of might, and extol the everlasting King. In the land of my captivity do I praise him, and declare his might and majesty to a sinful nation. O ye sinners, turn and do justice before him: who can tell if he will accept you, and have mercy on you?
Omni 1:26 And now, my beloved brethren, I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved.

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Niemand
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Re: Tobit & Book of Mormon + NT

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Link to discussion of Laodiceans
viewtopic.php?t=64025&p=1208281

"The lost Psalm 151 & Book of Mormon"
Psalm 151 is to be found in Eastern Orthodox Bibles but not in Roman Catholic or Protestant ones. Some people thinj it is made up of two lost psalms.
viewtopic.php?t=63875

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BuriedTartaria
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Re: Tobit - Apocrypha

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Niemand wrote: November 9th, 2021, 4:57 am

Giving to the poor
Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me
Tobit 4:7
give alms from your possessions, and do not let your eye begrudge the gift when you make it. Do not turn your face away from anyone who is poor, and the face of God will not be turned away from you.
Tobit 4:8
If you have many possessions, make your gift from them in proportion; if few, do not be afraid to give according to the little you have.

Tobit 4:10
For almsgiving delivers from death and keeps you from going into the Darkness.
Tobit 4:16
Give of thy bread to the hungry, and of thy garments to them that are naked; and according to thine abundance give alms: and let not thine eye be envious, when thou givest alms.
Matthew 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me...
Wow.... the scriptures' really focus on directly giving to the poor rather than paying an institution when it comes to discussing charity and donating money. Not saying or implying institutions of God with an obligation to receive tithing haven't existed but when you get into the messages of giving in the scriptures, the focus is so much more on directly giving to the poor.

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Niemand
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Re: Tobit - Apocrypha

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BuriedTartaria wrote: September 24th, 2022, 12:56 am
Niemand wrote: November 9th, 2021, 4:57 am

Giving to the poor
Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me
Tobit 4:7
give alms from your possessions, and do not let your eye begrudge the gift when you make it. Do not turn your face away from anyone who is poor, and the face of God will not be turned away from you.
Tobit 4:8
If you have many possessions, make your gift from them in proportion; if few, do not be afraid to give according to the little you have.

Tobit 4:10
For almsgiving delivers from death and keeps you from going into the Darkness.
Tobit 4:16
Give of thy bread to the hungry, and of thy garments to them that are naked; and according to thine abundance give alms: and let not thine eye be envious, when thou givest alms.
Matthew 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me...
Wow.... the scriptures' really focus on directly giving to the poor rather than paying an institution when it comes to discussing charity and donating money. Not saying or implying institutions of God with an obligation to receive tithing haven't existed but when you get into the messages of giving in the scriptures, the focus is so much more on directly giving to the poor.
I'm more inclined to help directly, as long as drugs and drink aren't involved. The current LDS does help the ppor to some extent (and I've seen that first hand with people we've helped), but maybe not as much as it should do.

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BuriedTartaria
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Re: Tobit - Apocrypha

Post by BuriedTartaria »

Niemand wrote: September 24th, 2022, 2:08 am
BuriedTartaria wrote: September 24th, 2022, 12:56 am
Niemand wrote: November 9th, 2021, 4:57 am

Giving to the poor
Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me
Tobit 4:7
give alms from your possessions, and do not let your eye begrudge the gift when you make it. Do not turn your face away from anyone who is poor, and the face of God will not be turned away from you.
Tobit 4:8
If you have many possessions, make your gift from them in proportion; if few, do not be afraid to give according to the little you have.

Tobit 4:10
For almsgiving delivers from death and keeps you from going into the Darkness.
Tobit 4:16
Give of thy bread to the hungry, and of thy garments to them that are naked; and according to thine abundance give alms: and let not thine eye be envious, when thou givest alms.
Matthew 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me...
Wow.... the scriptures' really focus on directly giving to the poor rather than paying an institution when it comes to discussing charity and donating money. Not saying or implying institutions of God with an obligation to receive tithing haven't existed but when you get into the messages of giving in the scriptures, the focus is so much more on directly giving to the poor.
I'm more inclined to help directly, as long as drugs and drink aren't involved. The current LDS does help the ppor to some extent (and I've seen that first hand with people we've helped), but maybe not as much as it should do.
They do help the poor. I agree. I shouldn't have implied they don't. And there is always the risk that when you hand someone cash that you see on the side of the road, it may just be going to drugs or drink.

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Niemand
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Re: Tobit - Apocrypha

Post by Niemand »

BuriedTartaria wrote: September 24th, 2022, 11:43 am
Niemand wrote: September 24th, 2022, 2:08 am
BuriedTartaria wrote: September 24th, 2022, 12:56 am
Niemand wrote: November 9th, 2021, 4:57 am

Giving to the poor









Wow.... the scriptures' really focus on directly giving to the poor rather than paying an institution when it comes to discussing charity and donating money. Not saying or implying institutions of God with an obligation to receive tithing haven't existed but when you get into the messages of giving in the scriptures, the focus is so much more on directly giving to the poor.
I'm more inclined to help directly, as long as drugs and drink aren't involved. The current LDS does help the ppor to some extent (and I've seen that first hand with people we've helped), but maybe not as much as it should do.
They do help the poor. I agree. I shouldn't have implied they don't. And there is always the risk that when you hand someone cash that you see on the side of the road, it may just be going to drugs or drink.
I don't think they do enough. A lot of the help is from the grassroots end. We helped out an ex-soldier with PTSD. Even though he's never shown face in the chapel, I'm proud we did. The guy had a rough life and he needed to catch a break.

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Niemand
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Re: Tobit & Book of Mormon + NT

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Tobit mentioned in Mormon Doctrine

From viewtopic.php?f=31&p=785719#p785719
iWriteStuff wrote: May 30th, 2017, 11:33 am
Mormon Doctrine, under heading title "Raphael"

As part of the restitution of all things, Raphael, an angelic ministrant, a personage who held keys of power during his mortal ministry, returned to earth in modern times and conferred the keys of his dispensation upon Joseph Smith. (D. & C. 128:21.) The Bible contains no mention of Raphael; the apocryphal book of Tobias,[sic] however, contains this statement: "I am the Angel Raphael, one of the seven, who stand before the Lord." (Tob. 12:15.)

As to Raphael's mortal identity we can only speculate. We do know the personages however, who restored the keys exercised in the various great dispensations mentioned in the Bible, with the exception of the dispensation of Enoch. An inference thus arises that Raphael may be Enoch or some other great prophet from his dispensation. If this assumption is correct, then the keys restored by Raphael would be those enjoyed by the saints in Enoch's day including, perhaps, the power whereby men may be translated.
From same thread
Love wrote: March 25th, 2018, 7:03 pm Azarias the son of the great Ananias". The story of the adventurous journey during which the protective influence of the angel is shown in many ways including the binding "in the desert of upper Egypt" of the demon who had previously slain seven husbands of Sara, daughter of Raguel, is picturesquely related in Tobit 5-11, to which the reader is referred. After the return and the healing of the blindness of the elder Tobias, Azarias makes himself known as "the angel Raphael, one of the seven, who stand before the Lord"

since “Azarias” means “the healer of YHWH” and “Ananias” means “The goodness of YHWH” or “The grace of YHWH”. Now, the Angel was then only disguising his true name (which means “God’s healer”) and testifying that he is sent into the world by God’s goodness. Thus, he gives his name through a certain riddle –

According to Jewish apocrypha, Metatron is the name Enoch received after his transformation into an angel.The book of Genesis (5:24) is often cited as evidence of Enoch's bodily ascension into heaven: "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."

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Niemand
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Re: Tobit & Book of Mormon + NT

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Latest Apocrypha:
1 Esdras
viewtopic.php?p=1343974

2 Esdras (the most relevant book in the Apocrypha?)
viewtopic.php?p=1344302

Bel and the Dragon
viewtopic.php?t=69261

Prayer of Azarias (Azariah) and Hymn of the Three Children
viewtopic.php?p=1341609

Prayer of Mannases (Manasseh)
viewtopic.php?t=69263

Apocryphal additions to Esther
viewtopic.php?p=1343414

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Niemand
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Re: Tobit & Book of Mormon + NT

Post by Niemand »

Tobit (KJV) audiobook - 44 minutes
Latest Apocrypha
Book of Susanna
viewtopic.php?t=69386

Book of Judith
viewtopic.php?t=69402

The Book of Sirach, Ecclesiasticus, the NT, the BOM and the other Jesus
viewtopic.php?t=69412

Book of Baruch and the Epistle of Jeremy/Jeremiah
viewtopic.php?p=1346145

1 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69454

2 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?p=1347024

3 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69496

Wisdom of Solomon
viewtopic.php?t=69469

The Book of Odes - this is an Eastern Orthodox work of limited interest, but included for the sake of completeness.
viewtopic.php?t=69470
Last edited by Niemand on January 30th, 2023, 3:45 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Tobit & Book of Mormon + NT

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Some References and Allusions to the Apocrypha in the New Testament

Matthew 6:2-4; cf Tobit 4:5-11 and Tobit 12:8 – “Revere the Lord all your days….do not walk in the ways of wrongdoing….to all those who practice righteousness give alms from your possessions, and do not let your eye begrudge the gift when you make it. Do not turn away your face from anyone who is poor, and the face of God will not be turned away from you….So you will be laying up a good treasure for yourself against the day of necessity. For almsgiving delivers from death and keeps you from going into the Darkness. Indeed, almsgiving, for all who practice it, is an excellent offering in the presence of the Most High” (Tob 4:5-11).

“Prayer with fasting is good, but better than both is almsgiving with righteousness. A little with righteousness is better than wealth with wrongdoing. It is better to give alms than to lay up gold. For almsgiving saves from death and purges away every sin. Those who give alms will enjoy a full life, but those who commit sin are their own worst enemies” (Tob 12:8-10).


Matthew 6:19-21 cf Tobit 4:5-11 – “Revere the Lord all your days….do not walk in the ways of wrongdoing….to all those who practice righteousness give alms from your possessions, and do not let your eye begrudge the gift when you make it. Do not turn away your face from anyone who is poor, and the face of God will not be turned away from you….So you will be laying up a good treasure for yourself against the day of necessity. For almsgiving delivers from death and keeps you from going into the Darkness. Indeed, almsgiving, for all who practice it, is an excellent offering in the presence of the Most High”.

Matthew 7:12 cf Tobit 4:15 – “And what you hate, do not do to anyone”

Matthew 12:27; Acts 19:13-14 cf Tobit 8:2-3 – “Then Tobias remembered the words of Raphael [the angel], and he took the fish’s liver and heart out of the bag where he had them and put them on the embers of the incense. The odour of the fish so repelled the demon that he fled to the remotest parts of Egypt. But Raphael followed him, and at once bound him there hand and foot”

*Matthew 22:23-33 cf Tobit 3:7-17 – “On the same day, at Ecbatana in Media, it also happened that Sarah, the daughter of Raguel, was reproached by one of her father’s maids. For she had been married to seven husbands, and the wicked demon Asmodeus had killed each of them before they had been with her as is customary for wives. So the maid said to her, ‘You are the one who kills your husbands! See, you have already been married to seven husbands and have not borne the name of a single one of them. Why do you beat us? Because your husbands are dead? Go with them! May we never see a son or a daughter of yours!’?”

Mark 7:31-37; 8:22-26; John 9:6-8 cf Tobit 3:16-17; 11:7-15 – “At that very moment, the prayers of both of them were heard in the glorious presence of God. So Raphael was sent to heal both of them: Tobit, by removing the white films from his eyes, so that he might see God’s light with his eyes…” (Tobit 3:16).

“…Smear the gall of the fish on his eyes; the medicine will make the white films shrink and peel off from his eyes, and your father will regain his sight and see the light” (Tobit 11:7-3).

“Then Tobit got up and came stumbling out through the courtyard door. Tobias went up to him, with the gall of fish in his hand, and holding them firmly, he blew into his eyes, saying, ‘Take courage, father.’ With this he applied the medicine on his eyes, and it made them smart. Next, with both his hands he peeled off the white films from the corners of his eyes. Then Tobit saw his son and threw his arms around him, and he wept and said to him, ‘I see you, my son, the light of my eyes!” (Tobit 11:10-14).

The point of quoting this is to demonstrate that God uses means that seem strange, even unnecessary, to us to accomplish his purposes. One of the criticisms of the book of Tobit is that this healing was too bizarre to be taken seriously; on that basis Mark 7:31-37, 8:22-26, andJohn 9:6-8 should likewise be rejected because they, too, are bizarre and an unnecessary means of healing.

Mark 12:18-27 cf Tobit 3:7-17 – see Matthew 22:23-33.

James 4:8 cf Tobit 13:6 – “If you turn to him with all your heart and with all your soul, to do what is true before him, then he will turn to you”.

James 5:4 cf Tobit 4:14 – “Do not keep over until the next day the wages of those who work for you, but pay them at once. If you serve God you will receive payment”.

*Revelation 8:2 cf Tobit 12:15 – “I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand ready and enter before the glory of the Lord”. This is the only passage in the whole bible, other than Revelation 8:2, which refers to “the seven angels who stand before God”; yet it is pre-Christian. How can this be if Tobit is not inspired revelation of the Spirit?

*Revelation 8:3-4 cf Tobit 12:12 – “So now, when you and Sarah prayed, it was I [the angel Raphael] who brought and read the record of your prayer before the glory of the Lord”. This is closely related to Revelation 8:2 above.

Revelation 21:18-21 cf Tobit 13:16 (v.21 in DRB) – “….The gates of Jerusalem will be built with sapphire and emerald, and all your walls with precious stones. The towers of Jerusalem will be built with gold, and their battlements with pure gold. The streets of Jerusalem will be paved with ruby and with stones of Ophir….”.


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Niemand
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Re: Tobit & Book of Mormon + NT

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Latest Apocrypha
4 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?p=1348046

Outside the Western and Eastern Orthodox Canon...

The Ethiopian canon. This includes brief info on the books of Sinodos, Ethiopian Clement, Ethiopian Covenant, and Didascalia as well as a list of other works in the canon.
viewtopic.php?t=69540

The Book of Jubilees aka Leptogenesis or Little Genesis
viewtopic.php?p=1348962

3 Corinthians (Armenian canon)
viewtopic.php?t=69567

Protestant perspective
https://faith.edu/faith-news/why-we-rej ... apocrypha/
Does Tobit 12:9 Teach Salvation by Works?

It says, “For almsgiving saves one from death and expiates [removes] every sin.” Before we make a final decision on this passage in Tobit, we should look at similar words and ask if they teach that salvation is by good works: “The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” These are the words of the Lord Jesus, found in John 5-28-29! I do not believe that they teach that salvation comes by works, but I can understand why someone might think so. In light of verse 24 (“He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life”), I interpret these words of Jesus to mean that good works demonstrate whether or not a person really is trusting in God the Father and Jesus Christ for salvation. Could not the words in Tobit be understood similarly?

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Re: Tobit & Book of Mormon + NT

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Tobit in Protestant use – by the Amish of all people!

https://amishamerica.com/bible/
the Martin Luther German Bible which Amish use contains the books of the Apocrypha (Luther described them as not equal to other books of the Bible, but “useful and good to read.”)

John Hostetler also notes that the Apocrypha plays a role in Amish wedding ceremonies, “which [include] the retelling of the marriage of Tobias and Sarah in the Apocrypha” (see Hostetler, John A., Amish Roots: A Treasury of History, Wisdom, and Lore, p. 117). Furthermore, in Amish Society, he recounts an Amish wedding service that includes readings from the Book of Tobit (Hostetler, John A., Amish Society, p. 195). Additionally, the Gospel of Nicodemus is also reportedly used by Amish.
https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Apocrypha
It is interesting to note that the Old Order Amish in the United States traditionally use the book of Tobit as the basis for the wedding sermon. A manuscript Amish Ministers Manual directs the use of Tobit in the wedding service in the following words: "So one turns to the book of Tobit. Although it is an apocryphal book and is not counted among the books of Holy Scripture, it nevertheless gives a beautiful teaching, strengthens the pious and God-fearing ones in the faith, especially in regard to marriage, and leads through all trial and tribulation to the hope that God finally will bring things to a conclusion with joy. So one begins in the book of Tobit . . ." A summary of the part of Tobit used in the Amish wedding sermon is printed in Joh. D. Hochstetler's reproduction of an Amish document of 1781, Ein alter Brief.
Latest Apocrypha
Ethiopian Bible:
The Book of Enoch
viewtopic.php?t=69577

New Testament Apocrypha and Antilegomena from Codex Sinaiticus

The Shepherd of Hermas - inspired literature or pagan trash?
viewtopic.php?t=69650

The Epistle of Barnabas (NT Apocrypha) - link between OT and NT, or not?
viewtopic.php?t=69679

The Didache or Teachings of the Apostles
viewtopic.php?t=69698

The Gospel of Nicodemus or Acts of Pilate, as tested on Mennonites
viewtopic.php?t=69760

And
Antilegomena: the books which barely made it into the Bible - Revelation, Esther, Song of Songs, James etc
viewtopic.php?p=1350652

Is Q canonical? How about the Gospel of Thomas? The answer's more complicated than it first appears.
viewtopic.php?t=69715

The LDS Bible dictionary on lost books referred to in the Bible.
viewtopic.php?t=69805

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Niemand
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Re: Tobit & Book of Mormon + NT

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The reference to the woman having seven husbands in Tobit may be a parallel to the man having seven wives mentioned in Isaiah 4 (and poss. 54.) This is sometimes taken as a polygamy reference in Isaiah, whereas in Tobit, the woman has been a serial monogamist who keeps losing her husbands in succession.
Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
viewtopic.php?p=1362493

Latest Apocrypha
Four more Apocryphal Psalms - 152, 153, 154, 155
viewtopic.php?p=1360712

Book of Jubilees (Apocrypha) aka the Little Genesis or Leptogenesis - Cain, Moses, Enoch, Nephilim
viewtopic.php?t=69548

1 Meqabyan (Ethiopian canon), another lost book?
viewtopic.php?t=69855

2 Meqabyan (Ethiopian canon), - the return of Tsirutsaydan
viewtopic.php?t=69971

The Samaritans, their canon and its significance
viewtopic.php?t=69905

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13997

Re: Tobit & Book of Mormon + NT

Post by Niemand »

Latest Apocrypha etc.
Underrated Bible stories #3: Habakkuk's Hair-raising Experience (from Bel & the Dragon in the KJV Apocrypha)
viewtopic.php?t=69509

The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs (Armenian canon): are these lost books by the founders of each Tribe of Israel or a later forgery?
viewtopic.php?t=71314

Ethiopian Canon...
3 Meqabyan (Ethiopian canon) a Question of Satan, another lost work?
viewtopic.php?t=70277

The First and Second Books of Adam and Eve (the Conflict with Satan)
viewtopic.php?t=70846

Other New Testament works
1 Clement: Papist propaganda or a window into the early church?
viewtopic.php?p=1368842

2 Clement: Inclement Gnosticism?
viewtopic.php?t=70327

The Three different Apocalypses of Peter: Guides to the universe or sadism? The ancient Apocalypse of Peter, the Arabic Apocalypse of Peter and the Nag Hammadi/Gnostic Text of the same name.
viewtopic.php?t=70682

A post on the Restored Branch, an English LDS microsect and its canon which includes works from the Nag Hammadi and Gnostic texts: these are the Gospel of Peter, the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Phillip, the Gospel of Truth (sic), the Letter of the Apostle Paul, the Sophia (Wisdom) of Jesus the Christ, the Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles and the Letter of Peter which he sent to Philip.
viewtopic.php?t=70413

Celtic legends about the Bible, including the visits of Biblical figures to western Europe, the Michael Line, Holy Grail/Arthurian legend, and Pontius Pilate. Discusses the Lost Chapter of the Acts of the Apostles (the Sonnini Manuscript), Magna Tabula Glastonia, writings of Nicephorus, Leabhar Gabhala/Lebor Gabála Érenn (Book of Settlements), the Mabinogion etc.
viewtopic.php?t=71061

On other interrelated religions:
My thread about the Koran, and its use of figures from the Bible, the Apocrypha and extracanonical material. How useful a source is the Koran itself? Does it have any real extra information on Biblical figures? This is something of work in progress.
viewtopic.php?t=70169

Was Zoroaster/Zarathustra a lost prophet of God? Some surprising links between this largely forgotten figure and Judaism, plus the Gathas.
viewtopic.php?t=65938

My thread on a bizarre Middle Eastern sect and their beliefs. Are the Yezidis of the Middle East an ancient Satanist group or a lost Jewish tribe? And what is the connection between their religion and today's rainbow flag? Is this strange group simply misunderstood?
viewtopic.php?t=70625

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13997

Re: Tobit & Book of Mormon + NT

Post by Niemand »

Other LDS resources
An LDS blog review of Tobit:
https://johnslds.blogspot.com/2014/10/a ... t.html?m=1

He doesn't really cover much ground there that I haven't already, but provides a good summary of the book.

An alternative audiobook of Tobit by another Mormon. 50 mins approx.
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Latest Apocrypha etc
Will the real Book of Jasher please stand up? At least a dozen works are claimed to be the Book of Jasher, but did it ever exist in the first place?
viewtopic.php?p=1438746

The Book of Gad the Seer, a work referred to in the Old Testament which may have been preserved by a small group of Jews in India. Some of its content is stunning including references to a sacrificed lamb who is sent by God and the future tribulation.
viewtopic.php?t=71421

The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs: are these lost books of the founders of each Tribe of Israel or a later forgery?
viewtopic.php?t=71314

The Ascension of Isaiah, visions of Christ and Antichrist
viewtopic.php?t=71598

The Book of the Cock – an unfortunately named gospel still in current use in Ethiopia.
viewtopic.php?t=71338

The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians, an early endorsement of Paul or a forgery?
viewtopic.php?p=1400884

The Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus - a beautiful short epistle about the relations of Christians and non-Christians, and the Tree of Knowledge
viewtopic.php?p=1404032

End Times Prophecy in Apocrypha/Pseudepigrapha: A guide
Includes discussions of 2 Esdras, (1) Enoch, Nicodemus, Ascension of Isaiah, Gad the Seer and the Shepherd of Hermas
viewtopic.php?t=71659

New Age Bibles: Urantia, Oahspe, Kolbrin, Oera Linda, Crowley's Book of the Law, a Course in Miracles etc. These works, usually channelled, provide a very different take on spirituality yet are strangely similar to one another. How should we approach these new works and are they just demonic?
viewtopic.php?p=1433133

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