LDS Freedom Forum

Aprhys wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 8:25 pm

alurker wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 6:25 pm

Aprhys wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 5:54 pm Now let's look at the revered prophet J.S. Gets caught diddlin' all sorts of women who weren't his legal wives, makes up some b.s. about an angel with a flaming sword threatening to kill him if he didn't marry lots of women then cons many church members to follow his perverted ways.

Joseph did nothing of the sort; all a bunch of lies from adulterers' like Brigham Young to gain acceptance for their wickedness among the members.

Not a single piece of contemporary evidence has ever surfaced about JS being a polygamist. With all the women he supposedly "married" you'd think there would be at least one contemporary journal entry, but there are none. They are all written decades after the fact.

Even the ones that are trotted out, when you dig and look at the actual sourcing, it is all a bunch of lies (sources rewritten, sources changed, documents written by known liars (like John C. Bennett), etc.). No shred of proof at all for Joseph actually doing what you claim.

So Oliver Cowdrys claim of "I did not fail to affirm that what I had said was strictly true. A dirty, nasty, filthy scrape of his and Fanny Alger’s was talked over in which I strictly declared that I had never deviated from the truth on the matter." was a lie? It seems that anytime someone wrote something about Joes perversions they are lies. Right? So your telling me that Joe was commanded to institute polygamy by the "angel with a flaming sword," yet never participated in the practice? C'mon man. Really? That's like saying he restored the gospel but never really was that involved in it.

Subcomandante wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 7:22 pm

A global institution of any type takes the best practices from every region of the world and tries to apply them to the body as a whole. An American institution with an international presence tends to try the American model and then apply it throughout the world.

Aprhys wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 4:47 pm

farmerchick wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 4:25 pm

Aprhys wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 3:27 pm

alurker wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 3:16 pm
It's so fascinating to me; when you were younger you thought you were better than others and now you still think you are better than others because you have no hatred and bigotry.

I don't think you learned a thing. Go on proclaiming how great and awesome and marvelous you are because you don't have hate and bigotry and how you can look down on others who do.

ROFLOL . . .too funny.

You are right. Having seen pure hatred first hand and having acted on that pure hatred (ignorance) and then having to lose a good part of my life and see family and friends lose a LONG part of their life because of their hatred I can say without a doubt that those who do not hate are better than those who do. Am I a better person now that I try not to hate than I was when I hated everyone and everything to the point that I would kill someone for who they were? Absolutely! How can you argue against that? I hope your hate never gets that bad. I hope you can see people for who they really are and not some stereotype. I hope you never get to experience the ugly side of humanity. I hope you can continue to enjoy a calm and easy life where you don't have anything better to worry about than someone else's sexuality. Above all I hope you and others like you can find peace. Real peace. The kind of peace that only understanding the pure love of Christ can bring. As Salaam Alaikum

Are you blaming yourself for your hatred of others in your younger life..or the church...or what exactly? I can tell you I respect all people in all walks of life......But I don't want to know about sexual proclivities of others at church.....why would I care to know? Why would you care to know? Why can't we all agree that homosexual relations have no place in my Sunday school lesson? I don't want to hate anyone...i want to trudge on my individual path to hopefully exaltation without the baggage of someone else telling me about their sodomy desires and I have to listen and accept.......i don't care...has nothing to do with me individually....it does however tear down the family values we hold collectively within our church and taints our future as a society as we have been warned what will happen to us if we don't follow God's pattern as outlined in the scriptures. .i don't want gays thrown off a building or beaten with rebar or have any other legal repercussions in society in housing or employment...but same sex relationships are not valued the same as hetero sexual relationships in Gods eyes as far as the scriptures tell us...so why are we being indoctrinated at church to accept this? I can be civil to a gay person...i can rent or sell them a home. I can be respectful and decent to them in conversation,, I can employ them...i can sit with them in the pews....i can generally show love to them as a person but that doesn't mean I agree with them or their philosophies/agenda.......the gay agenda isn't just toleration...it's saturation of society to the point that it will be desirable and mainstream......why are some gay people so vocal? It's because they want all of us to affirm their choices in positive ways and if we won't they will make us.....it's a form of societal control being perpetrated by people who are using the gay agenda to infiltrate and change our family structure so our way of life as we have known it in America will be gone... ...the gay agenda is a vehicle used by people in power to divide us and conquer us...to take our personal freedoms, religion, and prosperity away from us......this is so much bigger than just accepting a gay lifestyle.......why because equality is not the goal...it's equity.....it's about destroying the foundation of the western world one person at a time using fair minded tolerant people to do it. And everyone seems to be getting on the bandwagon.....there is no peace in delighting in sin....the plan of happiness is not about Adam and Steve adopting a child and telling religiois people they are better because they worked a work around gods creative powers......homosexuals are being normalized all around us as warm loving human beings....while straight white traditional family Men are abusers of women and children and the environment.....the wholesomeness of family values are obsolete and the new way will be love is love.....who can argue against that? The goal is to change the traditional family structure that allows for liberty to exist and replace it with government who will mandate all things to all people for their own good.... Peace will not be found unless people follow the pattern God set out for us to follow......the storm rages all around us and will be in our home as we continue to listen and embrace the doctrines of men. Hate is one of those doctrines that destroys as you so aptly pointed out......SOOO I guess your story is very instructive.

Your point is exactly my point. I do not want to exclude anyone from the gospel. Gay, straight, left-handed, liberal, conservative... What disturbs me is that there are many within the church who seem to have a zero tolerance policy towards anyone who differs from them in any form. I read on here that there are members of LDSFF who believe that Democrats should be excommunicated and cannot ever obtain redemption much less salvation. My attempt in telling my story was to show that sometimes our biases are unfounded and will lead to our destruction while having no affect on those we despise. Yes there are some gays who want to shove their lifestyle in others faces but this is the minority. Most live their lives just like straight people do. Have you lived in the South? Born-again Christians force their beliefs in everyone's faces and you are ostracized for not following thier beliefs. But these are the loud minority. For the most part people don't care what you do. I am tired of the hatred. Left hates Right. White hates Black. Blacks hate Asians. If I were God I would flush the whole thing down the toilet since my self proclaimed "chosen people," can't even figure this crap out. Who am I to say who can and cannot partake in the Saviors gospel since I am the lowest of his disciples. Look I understand why my Ward ostracizes me. I am a former felon (and 20 year military veteran, and proud father, and devoted husband, and pretty awesome volunteer baseball coach at our high school.) But to my upper middle class neighborhood I will always be the scary felon with the tattoos. Only two of them have ever heard my story and only two of them ever will. That's fine. I probably would feel the same way if I were in their shoes. But I am not in their shoes. I have walked a different path and the path that I continue to walk and will walk until I die will be a path that tries to change people's minds so that they can learn from my mistakes. The trials and tribulations written in Revelations comes because of man's wickedness towards his fellow man. If we could all figure this stuff out we would already be living in a in paradise with the Savior walking amongst us. I am just doing what I feel is right to try to bring a little more peace and kindness to my plane of existence. Maybe I am misguided. Maybe I am way off base but it's a heck of a lot better than the alternative road I was traveling.

Aprhys wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 5:54 pm How is this any different than my son who is straight.

Aprhys wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 4:47 pm

farmerchick wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 4:25 pm

Aprhys wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 3:27 pm

alurker wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 3:16 pm
It's so fascinating to me; when you were younger you thought you were better than others and now you still think you are better than others because you have no hatred and bigotry.

I don't think you learned a thing. Go on proclaiming how great and awesome and marvelous you are because you don't have hate and bigotry and how you can look down on others who do.

ROFLOL . . .too funny.

You are right. Having seen pure hatred first hand and having acted on that pure hatred (ignorance) and then having to lose a good part of my life and see family and friends lose a LONG part of their life because of their hatred I can say without a doubt that those who do not hate are better than those who do. Am I a better person now that I try not to hate than I was when I hated everyone and everything to the point that I would kill someone for who they were? Absolutely! How can you argue against that? I hope your hate never gets that bad. I hope you can see people for who they really are and not some stereotype. I hope you never get to experience the ugly side of humanity. I hope you can continue to enjoy a calm and easy life where you don't have anything better to worry about than someone else's sexuality. Above all I hope you and others like you can find peace. Real peace. The kind of peace that only understanding the pure love of Christ can bring. As Salaam Alaikum

Are you blaming yourself for your hatred of others in your younger life..or the church...or what exactly? I can tell you I respect all people in all walks of life......But I don't want to know about sexual proclivities of others at church.....why would I care to know? Why would you care to know? Why can't we all agree that homosexual relations have no place in my Sunday school lesson? I don't want to hate anyone...i want to trudge on my individual path to hopefully exaltation without the baggage of someone else telling me about their sodomy desires and I have to listen and accept.......i don't care...has nothing to do with me individually....it does however tear down the family values we hold collectively within our church and taints our future as a society as we have been warned what will happen to us if we don't follow God's pattern as outlined in the scriptures. .i don't want gays thrown off a building or beaten with rebar or have any other legal repercussions in society in housing or employment...but same sex relationships are not valued the same as hetero sexual relationships in Gods eyes as far as the scriptures tell us...so why are we being indoctrinated at church to accept this? I can be civil to a gay person...i can rent or sell them a home. I can be respectful and decent to them in conversation,, I can employ them...i can sit with them in the pews....i can generally show love to them as a person but that doesn't mean I agree with them or their philosophies/agenda.......the gay agenda isn't just toleration...it's saturation of society to the point that it will be desirable and mainstream......why are some gay people so vocal? It's because they want all of us to affirm their choices in positive ways and if we won't they will make us.....it's a form of societal control being perpetrated by people who are using the gay agenda to infiltrate and change our family structure so our way of life as we have known it in America will be gone... ...the gay agenda is a vehicle used by people in power to divide us and conquer us...to take our personal freedoms, religion, and prosperity away from us......this is so much bigger than just accepting a gay lifestyle.......why because equality is not the goal...it's equity.....it's about destroying the foundation of the western world one person at a time using fair minded tolerant people to do it. And everyone seems to be getting on the bandwagon.....there is no peace in delighting in sin....the plan of happiness is not about Adam and Steve adopting a child and telling religiois people they are better because they worked a work around gods creative powers......homosexuals are being normalized all around us as warm loving human beings....while straight white traditional family Men are abusers of women and children and the environment.....the wholesomeness of family values are obsolete and the new way will be love is love.....who can argue against that? The goal is to change the traditional family structure that allows for liberty to exist and replace it with government who will mandate all things to all people for their own good.... Peace will not be found unless people follow the pattern God set out for us to follow......the storm rages all around us and will be in our home as we continue to listen and embrace the doctrines of men. Hate is one of those doctrines that destroys as you so aptly pointed out......SOOO I guess your story is very instructive.

Your point is exactly my point. I do not want to exclude anyone from the gospel. Gay, straight, left-handed, liberal, conservative... What disturbs me is that there are many within the church who seem to have a zero tolerance policy towards anyone who differs from them in any form. I read on here that there are members of LDSFF who believe that Democrats should be excommunicated and cannot ever obtain redemption much less salvation. My attempt in telling my story was to show that sometimes our biases are unfounded and will lead to our destruction while having no affect on those we despise. Yes there are some gays who want to shove their lifestyle in others faces but this is the minority. Most live their lives just like straight people do. Have you lived in the South? Born-again Christians force their beliefs in everyone's faces and you are ostracized for not following thier beliefs. But these are the loud minority. For the most part people don't care what you do. I am tired of the hatred. Left hates Right. White hates Black. Blacks hate Asians. If I were God I would flush the whole thing down the toilet since my self proclaimed "chosen people," can't even figure this crap out. Who am I to say who can and cannot partake in the Saviors gospel since I am the lowest of his disciples. Look I understand why my Ward ostracizes me. I am a former felon (and 20 year military veteran, and proud father, and devoted husband, and pretty awesome volunteer baseball coach at our high school.) But to my upper middle class neighborhood I will always be the scary felon with the tattoos. Only two of them have ever heard my story and only two of them ever will. That's fine. I probably would feel the same way if I were in their shoes. But I am not in their shoes. I have walked a different path and the path that I continue to walk and will walk until I die will be a path that tries to change people's minds so that they can learn from my mistakes. The trials and tribulations written in Revelations comes because of man's wickedness towards his fellow man. If we could all figure this stuff out we would already be living in a in paradise with the Savior walking amongst us. I am just doing what I feel is right to try to bring a little more peace and kindness to my plane of existence. Maybe I am misguided. Maybe I am way off base but it's a heck of a lot better than the alternative road I was traveling.

Serragon wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 4:17 pm

TrueFaith wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 3:57 pm
People who experience same-sex attraction or identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual can make and keep covenants with God and fully and worthily participate in the Church. Identifying as gay, lesbian, or bisexual or experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin and does not prohibit one from participating in the Church, holding callings, or attending the temple.[/i]”

The first sentence is fine. Having a fetish or vice that you are trying to overcome or keep in check should not preclude you from full church activity.

The second sentence is where the church has jumped the shark. Identifying is homosexual behavior. It is entrenching and elevating the fetish instead of the opposite. This is the foot in the door that has been leveraged over the last decade by the queer proponents.

The church should be empathetic to those who have this fetish or vice and help them overcome it, but they should have never accepted it as an identity.

Aprhys wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 4:47 pm

farmerchick wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 4:25 pm

Aprhys wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 3:27 pm

alurker wrote: ↑November 6th, 2021, 3:16 pm
It's so fascinating to me; when you were younger you thought you were better than others and now you still think you are better than others because you have no hatred and bigotry.

I don't think you learned a thing. Go on proclaiming how great and awesome and marvelous you are because you don't have hate and bigotry and how you can look down on others who do.

ROFLOL . . .too funny.

You are right. Having seen pure hatred first hand and having acted on that pure hatred (ignorance) and then having to lose a good part of my life and see family and friends lose a LONG part of their life because of their hatred I can say without a doubt that those who do not hate are better than those who do. Am I a better person now that I try not to hate than I was when I hated everyone and everything to the point that I would kill someone for who they were? Absolutely! How can you argue against that? I hope your hate never gets that bad. I hope you can see people for who they really are and not some stereotype. I hope you never get to experience the ugly side of humanity. I hope you can continue to enjoy a calm and easy life where you don't have anything better to worry about than someone else's sexuality. Above all I hope you and others like you can find peace. Real peace. The kind of peace that only understanding the pure love of Christ can bring. As Salaam Alaikum

Are you blaming yourself for your hatred of others in your younger life..or the church...or what exactly? I can tell you I respect all people in all walks of life......But I don't want to know about sexual proclivities of others at church.....why would I care to know? Why would you care to know? Why can't we all agree that homosexual relations have no place in my Sunday school lesson? I don't want to hate anyone...i want to trudge on my individual path to hopefully exaltation without the baggage of someone else telling me about their sodomy desires and I have to listen and accept.......i don't care...has nothing to do with me individually....it does however tear down the family values we hold collectively within our church and taints our future as a society as we have been warned what will happen to us if we don't follow God's pattern as outlined in the scriptures. .i don't want gays thrown off a building or beaten with rebar or have any other legal repercussions in society in housing or employment...but same sex relationships are not valued the same as hetero sexual relationships in Gods eyes as far as the scriptures tell us...so why are we being indoctrinated at church to accept this? I can be civil to a gay person...i can rent or sell them a home. I can be respectful and decent to them in conversation,, I can employ them...i can sit with them in the pews....i can generally show love to them as a person but that doesn't mean I agree with them or their philosophies/agenda.......the gay agenda isn't just toleration...it's saturation of society to the point that it will be desirable and mainstream......why are some gay people so vocal? It's because they want all of us to affirm their choices in positive ways and if we won't they will make us.....it's a form of societal control being perpetrated by people who are using the gay agenda to infiltrate and change our family structure so our way of life as we have known it in America will be gone... ...the gay agenda is a vehicle used by people in power to divide us and conquer us...to take our personal freedoms, religion, and prosperity away from us......this is so much bigger than just accepting a gay lifestyle.......why because equality is not the goal...it's equity.....it's about destroying the foundation of the western world one person at a time using fair minded tolerant people to do it. And everyone seems to be getting on the bandwagon.....there is no peace in delighting in sin....the plan of happiness is not about Adam and Steve adopting a child and telling religiois people they are better because they worked a work around gods creative powers......homosexuals are being normalized all around us as warm loving human beings....while straight white traditional family Men are abusers of women and children and the environment.....the wholesomeness of family values are obsolete and the new way will be love is love.....who can argue against that? The goal is to change the traditional family structure that allows for liberty to exist and replace it with government who will mandate all things to all people for their own good.... Peace will not be found unless people follow the pattern God set out for us to follow......the storm rages all around us and will be in our home as we continue to listen and embrace the doctrines of men. Hate is one of those doctrines that destroys as you so aptly pointed out......SOOO I guess your story is very instructive.

Your point is exactly my point. I do not want to exclude anyone from the gospel. Gay, straight, left-handed, liberal, conservative... What disturbs me is that there are many within the church who seem to have a zero tolerance policy towards anyone who differs from them in any form. I read on here that there are members of LDSFF who believe that Democrats should be excommunicated and cannot ever obtain redemption much less salvation. My attempt in telling my story was to show that sometimes our biases are unfounded and will lead to our destruction while having no affect on those we despise. Yes there are some gays who want to shove their lifestyle in others faces but this is the minority. Most live their lives just like straight people do. Have you lived in the South? Born-again Christians force their beliefs in everyone's faces and you are ostracized for not following thier beliefs. But these are the loud minority. For the most part people don't care what you do. I am tired of the hatred. Left hates Right. White hates Black. Blacks hate Asians. If I were God I would flush the whole thing down the toilet since my self proclaimed "chosen people," can't even figure this crap out. Who am I to say who can and cannot partake in the Saviors gospel since I am the lowest of his disciples. Look I understand why my Ward ostracizes me. I am a former felon (and 20 year military veteran, and proud father, and devoted husband, and pretty awesome volunteer baseball coach at our high school.) But to my upper middle class neighborhood I will always be the scary felon with the tattoos. Only two of them have ever heard my story and only two of them ever will. That's fine. I probably would feel the same way if I were in their shoes. But I am not in their shoes. I have walked a different path and the path that I continue to walk and will walk until I die will be a path that tries to change people's minds so that they can learn from my mistakes. The trials and tribulations written in Revelations comes because of man's wickedness towards his fellow man. If we could all figure this stuff out we would already be living in a in paradise with the Savior walking amongst us. I am just doing what I feel is right to try to bring a little more peace and kindness to my plane of existence. Maybe I am misguided. Maybe I am way off base but it's a heck of a lot better than the alternative road I was traveling.

Serragon wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 4:10 pm

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 4:03 pm Boys are boys.
Girls are girls.

Not confusing.

Boys are girls.
Girls are boys.

Confusing.
Babylon.

The goal of progressives is to completely destroy your foundations. Only then can they be rebuilt on their principles.

Serragon wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 4:10 pm

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 4:03 pm Boys are boys.
Girls are girls.

Not confusing.

Boys are girls.
Girls are boys.

Confusing.
Babylon.

The goal of progressives is to completely destroy your foundations. Only then can they be rebuilt on their principles.

BroJones wrote: ↑November 8th, 2021, 7:19 am

Serragon wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 4:10 pm

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 4:03 pm Boys are boys.
Girls are girls.

Not confusing.

Boys are girls.
Girls are boys.

Confusing.
Babylon.

The goal of progressives is to completely destroy your foundations. Only then can they be rebuilt on their principles.

Do they also want to destroy the country? And the free world too?

"a preparation of killed microorganisms, living attenuated organisms, or living fully virulent organisms that is administered to produce or artificially increase immunity to a particular disease"

"a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein)"

alurker wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 5:37 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 4:17 pm

TrueFaith wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 3:57 pm
People who experience same-sex attraction or identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual can make and keep covenants with God and fully and worthily participate in the Church. Identifying as gay, lesbian, or bisexual or experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin and does not prohibit one from participating in the Church, holding callings, or attending the temple.[/i]”

The first sentence is fine. Having a fetish or vice that you are trying to overcome or keep in check should not preclude you from full church activity.

The second sentence is where the church has jumped the shark. Identifying is homosexual behavior. It is entrenching and elevating the fetish instead of the opposite. This is the foot in the door that has been leveraged over the last decade by the queer proponents.

The church should be empathetic to those who have this fetish or vice and help them overcome it, but they should have never accepted it as an identity.

Are the chickens finally starting to come home to roost?

The Church a few years ago started saying that identifying as LGBTQ+ was not a sin, only "acting" on it. As you rightly pointed out, simply identifying with it is acting it out. We have openly homosexual missionaries who are "worthy in every way".

What a sick, twisted religion. What adult man (or woman) here would voluntarily commit to living with a person of the same-sex who is openly homosexuals 24-7; sleep in the same room, etc.

Yet we tell our young kids barely 18 that it's okay and that they should do it. Our leaders are wicked-period.

No godly man or woman would encourage straight men/women to live 24-7 with someone who is openly homosexual. They are encouraging wickedness.

TrueFaith wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 5:59 pm

Aprhys wrote: ↑November 5th, 2021, 5:54 pm I have to play devil's advocate here. I have a nephew who is gay. Flaming gay. You could tell this kid was gay when he was eight. Homosexuality is a mental disorder. Now with that being said. He holds a temple recommend. He has never acted out on his physical desires. How is this any different than my son who is straight. Likes girls. Has also kept his physical desires within the appropriate bounds. Now let's look at the revered prophet J.S. Gets caught diddlin' all sorts of women who weren't his legal wives, makes up some b.s. about an angel with a flaming sword threatening to kill him if he didn't marry lots of women then cons many church members to follow his perverted ways. So please tell me who is more worthy to enter the temple. A. Gay guy who lives the law of chastity B. Straight guy who lives the law of chastity or C. Sex fiend and perverted con man.

I'd say the guy who says that Joseph Smith was a "Sex fiend and perverted con man" is probably the least worthy of all.

TrueFaith wrote: ↑November 28th, 2021, 4:24 pm Sadly many members of the Church will learn one day that Polygamy is not about lust or perversion and they will be struck with guilt at how they were deceived by the world.