The original 1840s temple endowment

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SJR3t2 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 9:09 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 31st, 2022, 3:17 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: October 31st, 2022, 2:41 pm Doesn't exist because it was not from YHWH through JS, but made up by Brigham Young with the help of other occult cultures.
If taught correctly, the four core laws are beautiful. I believe there is sufficient evidence to believe that some sort of temple endowment was occurring. I think simply stating that "nothing happen, it all originated with BY" is dismissing a lot of pretty verifiable church history.
We disagree as there is much in the Brighamite temple ceremony that contradicts Torah and even the Sermon on the Mount / at the Temple.
That is why I said, "If taught correctly." It is not taught correctly. But to suggest that it was all a fabrication is to overlook mountains of historical evidence from Joseph's era.

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SJR3t2
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by SJR3t2 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 1st, 2022, 9:11 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 9:09 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 31st, 2022, 3:17 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: October 31st, 2022, 2:41 pm Doesn't exist because it was not from YHWH through JS, but made up by Brigham Young with the help of other occult cultures.
If taught correctly, the four core laws are beautiful. I believe there is sufficient evidence to believe that some sort of temple endowment was occurring. I think simply stating that "nothing happen, it all originated with BY" is dismissing a lot of pretty verifiable church history.
We disagree as there is much in the Brighamite temple ceremony that contradicts Torah and even the Sermon on the Mount / at the Temple.
That is why I said, "If taught correctly." It is not taught correctly. But to suggest that it was all a fabrication is to overlook mountains of historical evidence from Joseph's era.
I don't think you understood why I said what I said to be honest.

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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SJR3t2 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 12:15 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 1st, 2022, 9:11 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 9:09 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: October 31st, 2022, 3:17 pm
If taught correctly, the four core laws are beautiful. I believe there is sufficient evidence to believe that some sort of temple endowment was occurring. I think simply stating that "nothing happen, it all originated with BY" is dismissing a lot of pretty verifiable church history.
We disagree as there is much in the Brighamite temple ceremony that contradicts Torah and even the Sermon on the Mount / at the Temple.
That is why I said, "If taught correctly." It is not taught correctly. But to suggest that it was all a fabrication is to overlook mountains of historical evidence from Joseph's era.
I don't think you understood why I said what I said to be honest.
Correct doctrine won't disagree with Torah and Christ. That's what I'm saying.

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SJR3t2
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by SJR3t2 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 1st, 2022, 12:34 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 12:15 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 1st, 2022, 9:11 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 9:09 am

We disagree as there is much in the Brighamite temple ceremony that contradicts Torah and even the Sermon on the Mount / at the Temple.
That is why I said, "If taught correctly." It is not taught correctly. But to suggest that it was all a fabrication is to overlook mountains of historical evidence from Joseph's era.
I don't think you understood why I said what I said to be honest.
Correct doctrine won't disagree with Torah and Christ. That's what I'm saying.
And Brigham Young and all his perversions and additions, including his temple ceremony, don't that is what I'm saying. Even if JS had a hand in it, which you don't, you have no transcript of what it was, because he never had anything to do with it.

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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SJR3t2 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 1:08 pm And Brigham Young and all his perversions and additions, including his temple ceremony, don't that is what I'm saying. Even if JS had a hand in it, which you don't, you have no transcript of what it was, because he never had anything to do with it.
But are the principles, if taught correctly, true? Yes.

And just because we don't have an official record from Joseph doesn't mean that he didn't do something with it.

I guess we'll just disagree and move off into our own little corners of thought.

I should also add, don't get so pigeon-holed that you don't recognize truth in other areas. If God wants to share truth, He often does it in unexpected ways. Otherwise, we fall into the same faulty logic as is condemned in the BoM: "A bible, a bible, we have a bible..."

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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by SJR3t2 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 1st, 2022, 1:16 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 1:08 pm And Brigham Young and all his perversions and additions, including his temple ceremony, don't that is what I'm saying. Even if JS had a hand in it, which you don't, you have no transcript of what it was, because he never had anything to do with it.
But are the principles, if taught correctly, true? Yes.

And just because we don't have an official record from Joseph doesn't mean that he didn't do something with it.

I guess we'll just disagree and move off into our own little corners of thought.

I should also add, don't get so pigeon-holed that you don't recognize truth in other areas. If God wants to share truth, He often does it in unexpected ways. Otherwise, we fall into the same faulty logic as is condemned in the BoM: "A bible, a bible, we have a bible..."
We are just not going to agree about the Brighamite temple and it's source.

YHWH does not contradict what He has already said, don't forget that, and the Brighamite temple contradicts what He has said on just about everything.

2 Nephi (LDS 29:7-9) (RLDS 12:55-63)
A 7 Know ye not that there are more NATIONS than one?
-B Know ye not that I, the Lord [YHWH] your God [ELOHIM], have CREATED ALL MEN,
--C and that I REMEMBER those who are upon the ISLES OF THE SEA;
---D1 and that I RULE in the heavens above and in the earth beneath;
---D2 and I BRING FORTH my WORD unto the children of men,
----E yea, even upon all the NATIONS of the earth?
-----F 8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall RECEIVE MORE of my WORD?
------G Know ye not that the TESTIMONY of TWO NATIONS is a WITNESS unto you that I am GOD [ELOHIM],
------G that I REMEMBER one NATION like unto ANOTHER?
-----F Wherefore, I SPEAK THE SAME WORDS UNTO ONE NATION LIKE UNTO ANOTHER.
----EA And when the two NATIONS shall run TOGETHER
----EB the testimony of the two NATIONS shall run TOGETHER also.
---D1 9 And I do this that I may PROVE unto many that I AM THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER;
---D2 and that I SPEAK FORTH my WORDS according to mine own pleasure.
--C And because that I have spoken one word YE NEED NOT SUPPOSE THAT I CANNOT SPEAK ANOTHER;
-B for MY [YHWH ELOHIM] WORK is not yet finished;
A neither shall it be until the end of MAN, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SJR3t2 wrote: November 2nd, 2022, 8:43 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 1st, 2022, 1:16 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 1:08 pm And Brigham Young and all his perversions and additions, including his temple ceremony, don't that is what I'm saying. Even if JS had a hand in it, which you don't, you have no transcript of what it was, because he never had anything to do with it.
But are the principles, if taught correctly, true? Yes.

And just because we don't have an official record from Joseph doesn't mean that he didn't do something with it.

I guess we'll just disagree and move off into our own little corners of thought.

I should also add, don't get so pigeon-holed that you don't recognize truth in other areas. If God wants to share truth, He often does it in unexpected ways. Otherwise, we fall into the same faulty logic as is condemned in the BoM: "A bible, a bible, we have a bible..."
We are just not going to agree about the Brighamite temple and it's source.

YHWH does not contradict what He has already said, don't forget that, and the Brighamite temple contradicts what He has said on just about everything.

2 Nephi (LDS 29:7-9) (RLDS 12:55-63)
A 7 Know ye not that there are more NATIONS than one?
-B Know ye not that I, the Lord [YHWH] your God [ELOHIM], have CREATED ALL MEN,
--C and that I REMEMBER those who are upon the ISLES OF THE SEA;
---D1 and that I RULE in the heavens above and in the earth beneath;
---D2 and I BRING FORTH my WORD unto the children of men,
----E yea, even upon all the NATIONS of the earth?
-----F 8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall RECEIVE MORE of my WORD?
------G Know ye not that the TESTIMONY of TWO NATIONS is a WITNESS unto you that I am GOD [ELOHIM],
------G that I REMEMBER one NATION like unto ANOTHER?
-----F Wherefore, I SPEAK THE SAME WORDS UNTO ONE NATION LIKE UNTO ANOTHER.
----EA And when the two NATIONS shall run TOGETHER
----EB the testimony of the two NATIONS shall run TOGETHER also.
---D1 9 And I do this that I may PROVE unto many that I AM THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER;
---D2 and that I SPEAK FORTH my WORDS according to mine own pleasure.
--C And because that I have spoken one word YE NEED NOT SUPPOSE THAT I CANNOT SPEAK ANOTHER;
-B for MY [YHWH ELOHIM] WORK is not yet finished;
A neither shall it be until the end of MAN, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
I don't think you get what I'm saying. What Brigham taught was wrong. That we can agree upon. But to deny that a correct teaching of the law of the gospel, sacrifice, virtue, and consecration is invalid is, IMO, overlooking much truth. What constitutes correct doctrine is what we should be focusing on.

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SJR3t2
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by SJR3t2 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 2nd, 2022, 9:07 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 2nd, 2022, 8:43 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 1st, 2022, 1:16 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: November 1st, 2022, 1:08 pm And Brigham Young and all his perversions and additions, including his temple ceremony, don't that is what I'm saying. Even if JS had a hand in it, which you don't, you have no transcript of what it was, because he never had anything to do with it.
But are the principles, if taught correctly, true? Yes.

And just because we don't have an official record from Joseph doesn't mean that he didn't do something with it.

I guess we'll just disagree and move off into our own little corners of thought.

I should also add, don't get so pigeon-holed that you don't recognize truth in other areas. If God wants to share truth, He often does it in unexpected ways. Otherwise, we fall into the same faulty logic as is condemned in the BoM: "A bible, a bible, we have a bible..."
We are just not going to agree about the Brighamite temple and it's source.

YHWH does not contradict what He has already said, don't forget that, and the Brighamite temple contradicts what He has said on just about everything.

2 Nephi (LDS 29:7-9) (RLDS 12:55-63)
A 7 Know ye not that there are more NATIONS than one?
-B Know ye not that I, the Lord [YHWH] your God [ELOHIM], have CREATED ALL MEN,
--C and that I REMEMBER those who are upon the ISLES OF THE SEA;
---D1 and that I RULE in the heavens above and in the earth beneath;
---D2 and I BRING FORTH my WORD unto the children of men,
----E yea, even upon all the NATIONS of the earth?
-----F 8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall RECEIVE MORE of my WORD?
------G Know ye not that the TESTIMONY of TWO NATIONS is a WITNESS unto you that I am GOD [ELOHIM],
------G that I REMEMBER one NATION like unto ANOTHER?
-----F Wherefore, I SPEAK THE SAME WORDS UNTO ONE NATION LIKE UNTO ANOTHER.
----EA And when the two NATIONS shall run TOGETHER
----EB the testimony of the two NATIONS shall run TOGETHER also.
---D1 9 And I do this that I may PROVE unto many that I AM THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER;
---D2 and that I SPEAK FORTH my WORDS according to mine own pleasure.
--C And because that I have spoken one word YE NEED NOT SUPPOSE THAT I CANNOT SPEAK ANOTHER;
-B for MY [YHWH ELOHIM] WORK is not yet finished;
A neither shall it be until the end of MAN, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
I don't think you get what I'm saying. What Brigham taught was wrong. That we can agree upon. But to deny that a correct teaching of the law of the gospel, sacrifice, virtue, and consecration is invalid is, IMO, overlooking much truth. What constitutes correct doctrine is what we should be focusing on.
I get what you are saying, but what you don't get is I disagree.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SJR3t2 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:45 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 2nd, 2022, 9:07 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 2nd, 2022, 8:43 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 1st, 2022, 1:16 pm
But are the principles, if taught correctly, true? Yes.

And just because we don't have an official record from Joseph doesn't mean that he didn't do something with it.

I guess we'll just disagree and move off into our own little corners of thought.

I should also add, don't get so pigeon-holed that you don't recognize truth in other areas. If God wants to share truth, He often does it in unexpected ways. Otherwise, we fall into the same faulty logic as is condemned in the BoM: "A bible, a bible, we have a bible..."
We are just not going to agree about the Brighamite temple and it's source.

YHWH does not contradict what He has already said, don't forget that, and the Brighamite temple contradicts what He has said on just about everything.

2 Nephi (LDS 29:7-9) (RLDS 12:55-63)
A 7 Know ye not that there are more NATIONS than one?
-B Know ye not that I, the Lord [YHWH] your God [ELOHIM], have CREATED ALL MEN,
--C and that I REMEMBER those who are upon the ISLES OF THE SEA;
---D1 and that I RULE in the heavens above and in the earth beneath;
---D2 and I BRING FORTH my WORD unto the children of men,
----E yea, even upon all the NATIONS of the earth?
-----F 8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall RECEIVE MORE of my WORD?
------G Know ye not that the TESTIMONY of TWO NATIONS is a WITNESS unto you that I am GOD [ELOHIM],
------G that I REMEMBER one NATION like unto ANOTHER?
-----F Wherefore, I SPEAK THE SAME WORDS UNTO ONE NATION LIKE UNTO ANOTHER.
----EA And when the two NATIONS shall run TOGETHER
----EB the testimony of the two NATIONS shall run TOGETHER also.
---D1 9 And I do this that I may PROVE unto many that I AM THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER;
---D2 and that I SPEAK FORTH my WORDS according to mine own pleasure.
--C And because that I have spoken one word YE NEED NOT SUPPOSE THAT I CANNOT SPEAK ANOTHER;
-B for MY [YHWH ELOHIM] WORK is not yet finished;
A neither shall it be until the end of MAN, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
I don't think you get what I'm saying. What Brigham taught was wrong. That we can agree upon. But to deny that a correct teaching of the law of the gospel, sacrifice, virtue, and consecration is invalid is, IMO, overlooking much truth. What constitutes correct doctrine is what we should be focusing on.
I get what you are saying, but what you don't get is I disagree.
I’m sorry that the Christ’s gospel, the principle of sacrifice and virtue, and personal and societal consecration don’t fit into your idea of religion.

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SJR3t2
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by SJR3t2 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 6:28 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:45 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 2nd, 2022, 9:07 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 2nd, 2022, 8:43 am

We are just not going to agree about the Brighamite temple and it's source.

YHWH does not contradict what He has already said, don't forget that, and the Brighamite temple contradicts what He has said on just about everything.

2 Nephi (LDS 29:7-9) (RLDS 12:55-63)
A 7 Know ye not that there are more NATIONS than one?
-B Know ye not that I, the Lord [YHWH] your God [ELOHIM], have CREATED ALL MEN,
--C and that I REMEMBER those who are upon the ISLES OF THE SEA;
---D1 and that I RULE in the heavens above and in the earth beneath;
---D2 and I BRING FORTH my WORD unto the children of men,
----E yea, even upon all the NATIONS of the earth?
-----F 8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall RECEIVE MORE of my WORD?
------G Know ye not that the TESTIMONY of TWO NATIONS is a WITNESS unto you that I am GOD [ELOHIM],
------G that I REMEMBER one NATION like unto ANOTHER?
-----F Wherefore, I SPEAK THE SAME WORDS UNTO ONE NATION LIKE UNTO ANOTHER.
----EA And when the two NATIONS shall run TOGETHER
----EB the testimony of the two NATIONS shall run TOGETHER also.
---D1 9 And I do this that I may PROVE unto many that I AM THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER;
---D2 and that I SPEAK FORTH my WORDS according to mine own pleasure.
--C And because that I have spoken one word YE NEED NOT SUPPOSE THAT I CANNOT SPEAK ANOTHER;
-B for MY [YHWH ELOHIM] WORK is not yet finished;
A neither shall it be until the end of MAN, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
I don't think you get what I'm saying. What Brigham taught was wrong. That we can agree upon. But to deny that a correct teaching of the law of the gospel, sacrifice, virtue, and consecration is invalid is, IMO, overlooking much truth. What constitutes correct doctrine is what we should be focusing on.
I get what you are saying, but what you don't get is I disagree.
I’m sorry that the Christ’s gospel, the principle of sacrifice and virtue, and personal and societal consecration don’t fit into your idea of religion.
Oh we disagree what Yeshua's gospel is for sure. Not to mention obedience is better than sacrifice. You have not idea what my idea of religion is, and are doing a straw man.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SJR3t2 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:20 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 6:28 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:45 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 2nd, 2022, 9:07 am
I don't think you get what I'm saying. What Brigham taught was wrong. That we can agree upon. But to deny that a correct teaching of the law of the gospel, sacrifice, virtue, and consecration is invalid is, IMO, overlooking much truth. What constitutes correct doctrine is what we should be focusing on.
I get what you are saying, but what you don't get is I disagree.
I’m sorry that the Christ’s gospel, the principle of sacrifice and virtue, and personal and societal consecration don’t fit into your idea of religion.
Oh we disagree what Yeshua's gospel is for sure. Not to mention obedience is better than sacrifice. You have not idea what my idea of religion is, and are doing a straw man.
I didn’t even explain my idea on any of these laws, and you “disagree.” A true man of learning. That’s fine. I know there are other basic principles that we don’t agree on, so yeah.

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SJR3t2
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by SJR3t2 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:21 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:20 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 6:28 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: November 3rd, 2022, 8:45 am

I get what you are saying, but what you don't get is I disagree.
I’m sorry that the Christ’s gospel, the principle of sacrifice and virtue, and personal and societal consecration don’t fit into your idea of religion.
Oh we disagree what Yeshua's gospel is for sure. Not to mention obedience is better than sacrifice. You have not idea what my idea of religion is, and are doing a straw man.
I didn’t even explain my idea on any of these laws, and you “disagree.” A true man of learning. That’s fine. I know there are other basic principles that we don’t agree on, so yeah.
I disagree with the Brighamite temple and it's source. You put words into my mouth to try to make me look bad.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:10 am I disagree with the Brighamite temple and it's source. You put words into my mouth to try to make me look bad.
And I said that if these principles were actually taught correctly, they are good. To which you disagreed.

I'm not trying to make you look bad. I think we should have a robust conversation (another thread maybe) about what actually constitutes the four core laws.

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Luke
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Luke »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:15 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:10 am I disagree with the Brighamite temple and it's source. You put words into my mouth to try to make me look bad.
And I said that if these principles were actually taught correctly, they are good. To which you disagreed.

I'm not trying to make you look bad. I think we should have a robust conversation (another thread maybe) about what actually constitutes the four core laws.
I know that you can see a blurred line between two of the laws, but it’s definitely five.

I’ve been reading something lately that you might like—I’ll post it later.

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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Luke wrote: November 4th, 2022, 1:24 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:15 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:10 am I disagree with the Brighamite temple and it's source. You put words into my mouth to try to make me look bad.
And I said that if these principles were actually taught correctly, they are good. To which you disagreed.

I'm not trying to make you look bad. I think we should have a robust conversation (another thread maybe) about what actually constitutes the four core laws.
I know that you can see a blurred line between two of the laws, but it’s definitely five.

I’ve been reading something lately that you might like—I’ll post it later.
Which 5? How I see it: Gospel/Obedience, Sacrifice, Virtue, Consecration. The first two (Gospel/Obedience) cover a lot of doctrine.

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Luke
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Luke »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 1:26 pm
Luke wrote: November 4th, 2022, 1:24 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:15 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:10 am I disagree with the Brighamite temple and it's source. You put words into my mouth to try to make me look bad.
And I said that if these principles were actually taught correctly, they are good. To which you disagreed.

I'm not trying to make you look bad. I think we should have a robust conversation (another thread maybe) about what actually constitutes the four core laws.
I know that you can see a blurred line between two of the laws, but it’s definitely five.

I’ve been reading something lately that you might like—I’ll post it later.
Which 5? How I see it: Gospel/Obedience, Sacrifice, Virtue, Consecration. The first two (Gospel/Obedience) cover a lot of doctrine.
Gospel, Obedience, Sacrifice, Virtue, Consecration.

Gospel and Obedience are different.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Luke wrote: November 4th, 2022, 1:34 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 1:26 pm
Luke wrote: November 4th, 2022, 1:24 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:15 am
And I said that if these principles were actually taught correctly, they are good. To which you disagreed.

I'm not trying to make you look bad. I think we should have a robust conversation (another thread maybe) about what actually constitutes the four core laws.
I know that you can see a blurred line between two of the laws, but it’s definitely five.

I’ve been reading something lately that you might like—I’ll post it later.
Which 5? How I see it: Gospel/Obedience, Sacrifice, Virtue, Consecration. The first two (Gospel/Obedience) cover a lot of doctrine.
Gospel, Obedience, Sacrifice, Virtue, Consecration.

Gospel and Obedience are different.
I can see the distinction... In reality, they all mix and blend together in some fashion. Obedience, Sacrifice, Virtue, and Consecration are all part of the "gospel" to some degree. Sacrifice is part of the Law of Consecration, in part.

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SJR3t2
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by SJR3t2 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:15 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:10 am I disagree with the Brighamite temple and it's source. You put words into my mouth to try to make me look bad.
And I said that if these principles were actually taught correctly, they are good. To which you disagreed.

I'm not trying to make you look bad. I think we should have a robust conversation (another thread maybe) about what actually constitutes the four core laws.
You put words in my mouth that I never said. We disagree about the source of the Brighamite temple and where if it teaches good or not. That is what I have focused on, you put words in my mouth I never said. Good day.

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JLHPROF
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by JLHPROF »

SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 6:51 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:15 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:10 am I disagree with the Brighamite temple and it's source. You put words into my mouth to try to make me look bad.
And I said that if these principles were actually taught correctly, they are good. To which you disagreed.

I'm not trying to make you look bad. I think we should have a robust conversation (another thread maybe) about what actually constitutes the four core laws.
You put words in my mouth that I never said. We disagree about the source of the Brighamite temple and where if it teaches good or not. That is what I have focused on, you put words in my mouth I never said. Good day.
The temple endowment as systematized by Brigham is the pinnacle of the restored gospel. Every element is found in scripture. Every culture in history has featured parts of it showing a teaching diaspora scattered throughout the millennia.
You'll never be able to convince me the temple endowment is any less than that.
What the Church has remaining today is a shadow of that magnificent restored ordinance under Joseph and Brigham.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 6:51 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:15 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:10 am I disagree with the Brighamite temple and it's source. You put words into my mouth to try to make me look bad.
And I said that if these principles were actually taught correctly, they are good. To which you disagreed.

I'm not trying to make you look bad. I think we should have a robust conversation (another thread maybe) about what actually constitutes the four core laws.
You put words in my mouth that I never said. We disagree about the source of the Brighamite temple and where if it teaches good or not. That is what I have focused on, you put words in my mouth I never said. Good day.
I have no idea where you are going with this. I addressed a completely different idea that you repeatedly choose to ignore.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JLHPROF wrote: November 4th, 2022, 8:02 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 6:51 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:15 am
SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:10 am I disagree with the Brighamite temple and it's source. You put words into my mouth to try to make me look bad.
And I said that if these principles were actually taught correctly, they are good. To which you disagreed.

I'm not trying to make you look bad. I think we should have a robust conversation (another thread maybe) about what actually constitutes the four core laws.
You put words in my mouth that I never said. We disagree about the source of the Brighamite temple and where if it teaches good or not. That is what I have focused on, you put words in my mouth I never said. Good day.
The temple endowment as systematized by Brigham is the pinnacle of the restored gospel. Every element is found in scripture. Every culture in history has featured parts of it showing a teaching diaspora scattered throughout the millennia.
You'll never be able to convince me the temple endowment is any less than that.
What the Church has remaining today is a shadow of that magnificent restored ordinance under Joseph and Brigham.
Uh, you need to study your church history and changes to the temple. And no, there are aspects that are not scriptural.

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JLHPROF
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Posts: 1087

Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by JLHPROF »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 8:24 pm
JLHPROF wrote: November 4th, 2022, 8:02 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 6:51 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 11:15 am
And I said that if these principles were actually taught correctly, they are good. To which you disagreed.

I'm not trying to make you look bad. I think we should have a robust conversation (another thread maybe) about what actually constitutes the four core laws.
You put words in my mouth that I never said. We disagree about the source of the Brighamite temple and where if it teaches good or not. That is what I have focused on, you put words in my mouth I never said. Good day.
The temple endowment as systematized by Brigham is the pinnacle of the restored gospel. Every element is found in scripture. Every culture in history has featured parts of it showing a teaching diaspora scattered throughout the millennia.
You'll never be able to convince me the temple endowment is any less than that.
What the Church has remaining today is a shadow of that magnificent restored ordinance under Joseph and Brigham.
Uh, you need to study your church history and changes to the temple. And no, there are aspects that are not scriptural.
I am aware of every change to the temple in Church history, even the wrong changed. And I've studied it in depth.
And yes, the original under Joseph/Brigham is all scriptural.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JLHPROF wrote: November 4th, 2022, 8:47 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 8:24 pm
JLHPROF wrote: November 4th, 2022, 8:02 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: November 4th, 2022, 6:51 pm

You put words in my mouth that I never said. We disagree about the source of the Brighamite temple and where if it teaches good or not. That is what I have focused on, you put words in my mouth I never said. Good day.
The temple endowment as systematized by Brigham is the pinnacle of the restored gospel. Every element is found in scripture. Every culture in history has featured parts of it showing a teaching diaspora scattered throughout the millennia.
You'll never be able to convince me the temple endowment is any less than that.
What the Church has remaining today is a shadow of that magnificent restored ordinance under Joseph and Brigham.
Uh, you need to study your church history and changes to the temple. And no, there are aspects that are not scriptural.
I am aware of every change to the temple in Church history. And I've studied it in depth.
And yes, it's all scriptural.
You can’t be aware of “every” change since there is not a single record ever recorded of what Joseph taught.

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Shawn Henry
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Posts: 4514

Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by Shawn Henry »

"menny things are perfect"

Heber's writings are proof positive that he never read a single book in the BoM, Bible, or any book for that matter.

Wouldn't being an Apostle be encouragement enough to familiarize yourself with the word of God?

Menny are cald and foo are chosin.

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JLHPROF
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1087

Re: The original 1840s temple endowment

Post by JLHPROF »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 8:48 pm
JLHPROF wrote: November 4th, 2022, 8:47 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 4th, 2022, 8:24 pm
JLHPROF wrote: November 4th, 2022, 8:02 pm
The temple endowment as systematized by Brigham is the pinnacle of the restored gospel. Every element is found in scripture. Every culture in history has featured parts of it showing a teaching diaspora scattered throughout the millennia.
You'll never be able to convince me the temple endowment is any less than that.
What the Church has remaining today is a shadow of that magnificent restored ordinance under Joseph and Brigham.
Uh, you need to study your church history and changes to the temple. And no, there are aspects that are not scriptural.
I am aware of every change to the temple in Church history. And I've studied it in depth.
And yes, it's all scriptural.
You can’t be aware of “every” change since there is not a single record ever recorded of what Joseph taught.
You know what I meant. 🙄

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