Wearing Masks During Priesthood Blessings/Ordinances (Poll)

[bbsion]

Here is the thing for me. Since the beginning of last year when this "pandemic" started, I feel I have been able to easily identify satanic influences dictating the "guidelines" and government bodies that are just trying to enslave us further. Several years ago I decided that if the government is trying to force, bribe, and coerce you into doing what they think is the "greater good", it is VERY likely not in your best interest to comply. The mask, to me, has felt like it represents compliance to the satanic influences that have been in control from the beginning of this manufactured "pandemic". It feels like a fruit of an evil tree. Maybe masks weren't always that way before Covid, but to me, for the most part, that is what they represent now.

So you can see that putting on a mask when I am healthy and helping to perform a blessing, using priesthood power and faith (which should be able to move mountains) feels a bit hypocritical.

Maybe I just answered my own question and maybe I am wrong. But my dilemma has been, does the mask always represent compliance to an evil agenda or when is it just a brief discomfort for my stubborn and defiant nature?

The reason I pose these questions is not because I want to create contention. It's because I like to gather perspective from other individuals, especially other Mormons about topics like this. I read what people say and I try to discern the truth with the Spirit.

Right now I need to keep asking God to help my unbelief and my faith. To help me be sure and not doubtful. To help me have the courage to do what I think is right regardless of the cost. But to discern what is right is crucial.

[EllaJean]

Church members saying it's child abuse to have your child wear a mask is mind blowing and devastating.

Does a child need to wear a mask for this virus? No, they do not. Not a single child has died from this plandemic in the state in which I live. But the physical and mental abuse will carry with them for a long time, especially now that the gubment is ramping up the jab fro 28M youth.

Here is where my medical background comes into play. Because I've taken Microbiology and understand disease process, the transmission of virus's and long term complications from communicable diseases like smallpox and Polio, my children wear masks. They are happy and healthy and fine, the only psychological effects that may get to them is from the adults who have made fun of them. I understand the risks of dying in children are low, but it's not the low risk of death I'm concerned about, it's long term effects. I want my children to have the healthiest lives possible, which leads to a good quality of life. I've worked in healthcare too long to see how poor health affects normal daily function. Study Polio, sometimes the effects of that virus didn't show up until years down the road. Virus's do strange things and effects take time to measure. My sister who is young and healthy is now having heart problems after having COVID 10 months ago. Medical professionals are still learning about the long term effects of COVID and probably will be for some time.
My children are also smart enough to understand they can get COVID and spread it to others, including family or friends who are immunocompromised. You would be surprised how many people are walking around, adults and children who are on medicines for autoimmune diseases or cancer, that suppress their immune systems which in turn makes it a lot more difficult for their bodies to fight off a infection. Even though my children are healthy and the risks are low for them, we understand other's may not be so lucky and want to help those around us rather then put them at risk.
I understand COVID most likely won't be going away and is staying, but I also understand that over time it will change and become less complicated like it is now. If you've worked with COVID patients like I have, you wouldn't be minimizing it so much.
I see a lot of people say we need to have faith over a vaccine, or faith over a mask, but when a living Prophet of God, announces that the vaccine is a direct Godsend, nothing short of miraculous and an answer to our prayers and fasting, I'm not going to argue with that. I've been taught from my youth that faith without works is dead. Ignoring the Prophet's guidance on this or thinking he has been deceived or is wrong is a slippery slope, and if he is reporting this vaccine is basically a miracle, why would I not want my children to be partakers of a modern day miracle?

[Luke]

Church members saying it's child abuse to have your child wear a mask is mind blowing and devastating.

Does a child need to wear a mask for this virus? No, they do not. Not a single child has died from this plandemic in the state in which I live. But the physical and mental abuse will carry with them for a long time, especially now that the gubment is ramping up the jab fro 28M youth.

Here is where my medical background comes into play. Because I've taken Microbiology and understand disease process, the transmission of virus's and long term complications from communicable diseases like smallpox and Polio, my children wear masks. They are happy and healthy and fine, the only psychological effects that may get to them is from the adults who have made fun of them. I understand the risks of dying in children are low, but it's not the low risk of death I'm concerned about, it's long term effects. I want my children to have the healthiest lives possible, which leads to a good quality of life. I've worked in healthcare too long to see how poor health affects normal daily function. Study Polio, sometimes the effects of that virus didn't show up until years down the road. Virus's do strange things and effects take time to measure. My sister who is young and healthy is now having heart problems after having COVID 10 months ago. Medical professionals are still learning about the long term effects of COVID and probably will be for some time.
My children are also smart enough to understand they can get COVID and spread it to others, including family or friends who are immunocompromised. You would be surprised how many people are walking around, adults and children who are on medicines for autoimmune diseases or cancer, that suppress their immune systems which in turn makes it a lot more difficult for their bodies to fight off a infection. Even though my children are healthy and the risks are low for them, we understand other's may not be so lucky and want to help those around us rather then put them at risk.
I understand COVID most likely won't be going away and is staying, but I also understand that over time it will change and become less complicated like it is now. If you've worked with COVID patients like I have, you wouldn't be minimizing it so much.
I see a lot of people say we need to have faith over a vaccine, or faith over a mask, but when a living Prophet of God, announces that the vaccine is a direct Godsend, nothing short of miraculous and an answer to our prayers and fasting, I'm not going to argue with that. I've been taught from my youth that faith without works is dead. Ignoring the Prophet's guidance on this or thinking he has been deceived or is wrong is a slippery slope, and if he is reporting this vaccine is basically a miracle, why would I not want my children to be partakers of a modern day miracle?

RMN is a false prophet.

[Lizzy60]

Church members saying it's child abuse to have your child wear a mask is mind blowing and devastating.

Does a child need to wear a mask for this virus? No, they do not. Not a single child has died from this plandemic in the state in which I live. But the physical and mental abuse will carry with them for a long time, especially now that the gubment is ramping up the jab fro 28M youth.

Here is where my medical background comes into play. Because I've taken Microbiology and understand disease process, the transmission of virus's and long term complications from communicable diseases like smallpox and Polio, my children wear masks. They are happy and healthy and fine, the only psychological effects that may get to them is from the adults who have made fun of them. I understand the risks of dying in children are low, but it's not the low risk of death I'm concerned about, it's long term effects. I want my children to have the healthiest lives possible, which leads to a good quality of life. I've worked in healthcare too long to see how poor health affects normal daily function. Study Polio, sometimes the effects of that virus didn't show up until years down the road. Virus's do strange things and effects take time to measure. My sister who is young and healthy is now having heart problems after having COVID 10 months ago. Medical professionals are still learning about the long term effects of COVID and probably will be for some time.
My children are also smart enough to understand they can get COVID and spread it to others, including family or friends who are immunocompromised. You would be surprised how many people are walking around, adults and children who are on medicines for autoimmune diseases or cancer, that suppress their immune systems which in turn makes it a lot more difficult for their bodies to fight off a infection. Even though my children are healthy and the risks are low for them, we understand other's may not be so lucky and want to help those around us rather then put them at risk.
I understand COVID most likely won't be going away and is staying, but I also understand that over time it will change and become less complicated like it is now. If you've worked with COVID patients like I have, you wouldn't be minimizing it so much.
I see a lot of people say we need to have faith over a vaccine, or faith over a mask, but when a living Prophet of God, announces that the vaccine is a direct Godsend, nothing short of miraculous and an answer to our prayers and fasting, I'm not going to argue with that. I've been taught from my youth that faith without works is dead. Ignoring the Prophet's guidance on this or thinking he has been deceived or is wrong is a slippery slope, and if he is reporting this vaccine is basically a miracle, why would I not want my children to be partakers of a modern day miracle?

Do you have children aged 5-12? Will you have them get the covid vax?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Church members saying it's child abuse to have your child wear a mask is mind blowing and devastating.

Does a child need to wear a mask for this virus? No, they do not. Not a single child has died from this plandemic in the state in which I live. But the physical and mental abuse will carry with them for a long time, especially now that the gubment is ramping up the jab fro 28M youth.

Here is where my medical background comes into play. Because I've taken Microbiology and understand disease process, the transmission of virus's and long term complications from communicable diseases like smallpox and Polio, my children wear masks. They are happy and healthy and fine, the only psychological effects that may get to them is from the adults who have made fun of them. I understand the risks of dying in children are low, but it's not the low risk of death I'm concerned about, it's long term effects. I want my children to have the healthiest lives possible, which leads to a good quality of life. I've worked in healthcare too long to see how poor health affects normal daily function. Study Polio, sometimes the effects of that virus didn't show up until years down the road. Virus's do strange things and effects take time to measure. My sister who is young and healthy is now having heart problems after having COVID 10 months ago. Medical professionals are still learning about the long term effects of COVID and probably will be for some time.
My children are also smart enough to understand they can get COVID and spread it to others, including family or friends who are immunocompromised. You would be surprised how many people are walking around, adults and children who are on medicines for autoimmune diseases or cancer, that suppress their immune systems which in turn makes it a lot more difficult for their bodies to fight off a infection. Even though my children are healthy and the risks are low for them, we understand other's may not be so lucky and want to help those around us rather then put them at risk.
I understand COVID most likely won't be going away and is staying, but I also understand that over time it will change and become less complicated like it is now. If you've worked with COVID patients like I have, you wouldn't be minimizing it so much.
I see a lot of people say we need to have faith over a vaccine, or faith over a mask, but when a living Prophet of God, announces that the vaccine is a direct Godsend, nothing short of miraculous and an answer to our prayers and fasting, I'm not going to argue with that. I've been taught from my youth that faith without works is dead. Ignoring the Prophet's guidance on this or thinking he has been deceived or is wrong is a slippery slope, and if he is reporting this vaccine is basically a miracle, why would I not want my children to be partakers of a modern day miracle?

Your medical background conflicts with many studies btw.

To say that masks have no risk to children is silly. There are both physical and emotional side effects.

The risk of children dying is nearly ZERO%. Literally.

Asymptomatic spread was actually debunked by the WHO. I can show you the study if you'd like.

Covid isn't going away? You mean, the "flu" is here to stay? Haha.

Hospital protocols are killing many flu patients. Not "CV19".

The shot did not come from God, just sayin'. RMN and his cohorts (Q15) literally preach anti-Christian doctrine from the pulpits of the church.

Gaslighting to the extreme.

But I'm sure you are a nice person. I guess.

[Subcomandante]

There is NO medical benefit to wearing a mask. To say otherwise is to lie. Every single person that wears a mask is proclaiming loyalty to the lie. May they all rot in hell.

Our country and world is on the brink of disaster. Every single mask wear down to the very last one prays that the United States will be destroyed and the the deep state will take over completely and that millions of people will be brutally murdered. That is what wearing a mask means.

We should NEVER enter a business or church that requires a mask. EVER!

We should tell relatives that continue to blatantly and overtly worship satan that we will have to part company. Please never call me again as long as you live unless you are done with masks.

Sissies that think it is okay to pretend they do not fully worship satan are making a big mistake. Any Bishop or Stake President that wears a mask is absolutely without exception a dedicated disciple of satan. May they all rot in hell.

It is not okay to perform an ordinance while flipping God the bird. That is what a mask is.

Hyperbole much?

Nope. I just call it like I see it.

You call it like you see it, without considering alternative reasons why people do what they do. It's not all black and white. This is absolutism

Not everyone that decides to put on a mask is a Satan worshipper. Some do so ignorantly. Others, because they suffer from other types of health problems in which a mask is proven to work (seasonal allergies; the K95 masks filter out pollen with ease).

[Allison]

Here is the thing for me. Since the beginning of last year when this "pandemic" started, I feel I have been able to easily identify satanic influences dictating the "guidelines" and government bodies that are just trying to enslave us further. Several years ago I decided that if the government is trying to force, bribe, and coerce you into doing what they think is the "greater good", it is VERY likely not in your best interest to comply. The mask, to me, has felt like it represents compliance to the satanic influences that have been in control from the beginning of this manufactured "pandemic". It feels like a fruit of an evil tree. Maybe masks weren't always that way before Covid, but to me, for the most part, that is what they represent now.

So you can see that putting on a mask when I am healthy and helping to perform a blessing, using priesthood power and faith (which should be able to move mountains) feels a bit hypocritical.

Maybe I just answered my own question and maybe I am wrong. But my dilemma has been, does the mask always represent compliance to an evil agenda or when is it just a brief discomfort for my stubborn and defiant nature?

The reason I pose these questions is not because I want to create contention. It's because I like to gather perspective from other individuals, especially other Mormons about topics like this. I read what people say and I try to discern the truth with the Spirit.

Right now I need to keep asking God to help my unbelief and my faith. To help me be sure and not doubtful. To help me have the courage to do what I think is right regardless of the cost. But to discern what is right is crucial.

I confess that I wore a mask in February so I could visit my husband in the hospital for several days, and I would do it again. He is way more important to me, he needed me, and they had the power to give me that ultimatum.

Then last year we wore a mask three times in order to go to the temple with children of our dear friends for their own ordinances.

I can’t claim I have a perfect mask track record for those reasons, but I think I might be a little regretful now if I had refused to to humble myself for those moments. Sometimes people are more important.

And now, a friend who I fear may be die of cancer soon has invited me to come for a visit. I will gladly wear a mask, knowing it will reduce her fear and stress level. She didn’t ask me to wear a mask, but I know she believes in them. This could be the last time I see her and again, and she is more important to me; I want to honor her needs.

This is all just to say that the answer you get from Heavenly Father may surprise you either way. All the best with your decision.

[Mamabear]

Here is the thing for me. Since the beginning of last year when this "pandemic" started, I feel I have been able to easily identify satanic influences dictating the "guidelines" and government bodies that are just trying to enslave us further. Several years ago I decided that if the government is trying to force, bribe, and coerce you into doing what they think is the "greater good", it is VERY likely not in your best interest to comply. The mask, to me, has felt like it represents compliance to the satanic influences that have been in control from the beginning of this manufactured "pandemic". It feels like a fruit of an evil tree. Maybe masks weren't always that way before Covid, but to me, for the most part, that is what they represent now.

So you can see that putting on a mask when I am healthy and helping to perform a blessing, using priesthood power and faith (which should be able to move mountains) feels a bit hypocritical.

Maybe I just answered my own question and maybe I am wrong. But my dilemma has been, does the mask always represent compliance to an evil agenda or when is it just a brief discomfort for my stubborn and defiant nature?

The reason I pose these questions is not because I want to create contention. It's because I like to gather perspective from other individuals, especially other Mormons about topics like this. I read what people say and I try to discern the truth with the Spirit.

Right now I need to keep asking God to help my unbelief and my faith. To help me be sure and not doubtful. To help me have the courage to do what I think is right regardless of the cost. But to discern what is right is crucial.

I agree. It’s funny, I was just thinking that sometimes in life we ask God what to do when we need His guidance. And the beautiful thing is that sometimes he will tell us specifically what to do and then there are other times he wants us to decide for ourselves.
And occasionally when deciding between 2 options, neither choice is the wrong choice, it’s just the one we resonate with.

[Prana]

If the person giving the blessing, or performing the ordinance, is the one requiring the face diaper, that person has neither the discernment nor the power to make those things effective in the first place. It’s a mockery of the entire event.

[Reluctant Watchman]

To point out the obvious. We can nitpick all the small details about masks, jabs, anal swabs, you know, the fun stuff. You can flush all of that down the toilet when you realize that governments around the world are taking away your medical freedom through mandates. For those of you who don't realize that... when are you going to wake up?

[Lizzy60]

My husband owns his business and works from home so I don’t have an employer telling me to wear a mask. I shop in-person at local stores including national chains, I eat in restaurants, my ward encourages masks but doesn’t require them, I walk and bike in my neighborhood where I never see anyone masked outside.

The only place in the course of my normal life where I am absolutely required to wear a mask, or go home, is the TEMPLE. Something is seriously wrong.

[Lineman1012]

My husband owns his business and works from home so I don’t have an employer telling me to wear a mask. I shop in-person at local stores including national chains, I eat in restaurants, my ward encourages masks but doesn’t require them, I walk and bike in my neighborhood where I never see anyone masked outside.

The only place in the course of my normal life where I am absolutely required to wear a mask, or go home, is the TEMPLE. Something is seriously wrong.

Yes. I've thought at times, that it is as if the church members, with any authority, such as temple presidents, mission presidents, stake presidents, church president, love this "ok" from the government to push something on their members. It's as if they relish the power more than the freedom. I can't understand it.

[Fred]

There is NO medical benefit to wearing a mask. To say otherwise is to lie. Every single person that wears a mask is proclaiming loyalty to the lie. May they all rot in hell.

Our country and world is on the brink of disaster. Every single mask wear down to the very last one prays that the United States will be destroyed and the the deep state will take over completely and that millions of people will be brutally murdered. That is what wearing a mask means.

We should NEVER enter a business or church that requires a mask. EVER!

We should tell relatives that continue to blatantly and overtly worship satan that we will have to part company. Please never call me again as long as you live unless you are done with masks.

Sissies that think it is okay to pretend they do not fully worship satan are making a big mistake. Any Bishop or Stake President that wears a mask is absolutely without exception a dedicated disciple of satan. May they all rot in hell.

It is not okay to perform an ordinance while flipping God the bird. That is what a mask is.

Hyperbole much?

Nope. I just call it like I see it.

You call it like you see it, without considering alternative reasons why people do what they do. It's not all black and white. This is absolutism

Not everyone that decides to put on a mask is a Satan worshipper. Some do so ignorantly. Others, because they suffer from other types of health problems in which a mask is proven to work (seasonal allergies; the K95 masks filter out pollen with ease).

It matters not WHY they wear the symbol of satan. They do it willingly. Now, I do realize that some people are simply far too stupid to seek truth. But for those that have the capability and don't, they are satan worshipers even if they don't wear a mask. So when I say they love satan it isn't just because they wear a mask. There are other reasons, as well. What there are not is any exceptions, except for children too young to make that decision.

[EllaJean]

Another thing I'm trying to wrap my mind around. Suddenly, during covid, support of and following the prophet and defending him publicly is now called gas lighting. That word gets thrown around way too often all because someone thinks and behaves differently. If you look up the definition it means, " manipulate by psychological means into questioning their own sanity." Did I make you question your own sanity? If someone is claiming the prophet and apostles are teaching anti christ doctrine it makes me wonder why they spend time on this website other than to destroy faith and pull people from the iron rod. It says a lot about where someone stands if they don't trust the prophets guidance and counsel, think he has been deceived or a false prophet and publicly say so.

Church members saying it's child abuse to have your child wear a mask is mind blowing and devastating.

Does a child need to wear a mask for this virus? No, they do not. Not a single child has died from this plandemic in the state in which I live. But the physical and mental abuse will carry with them for a long time, especially now that the gubment is ramping up the jab fro 28M youth.

Here is where my medical background comes into play. Because I've taken Microbiology and understand disease process, the transmission of virus's and long term complications from communicable diseases like smallpox and Polio, my children wear masks. They are happy and healthy and fine, the only psychological effects that may get to them is from the adults who have made fun of them. I understand the risks of dying in children are low, but it's not the low risk of death I'm concerned about, it's long term effects. I want my children to have the healthiest lives possible, which leads to a good quality of life. I've worked in healthcare too long to see how poor health affects normal daily function. Study Polio, sometimes the effects of that virus didn't show up until years down the road. Virus's do strange things and effects take time to measure. My sister who is young and healthy is now having heart problems after having COVID 10 months ago. Medical professionals are still learning about the long term effects of COVID and probably will be for some time.
My children are also smart enough to understand they can get COVID and spread it to others, including family or friends who are immunocompromised. You would be surprised how many people are walking around, adults and children who are on medicines for autoimmune diseases or cancer, that suppress their immune systems which in turn makes it a lot more difficult for their bodies to fight off a infection. Even though my children are healthy and the risks are low for them, we understand other's may not be so lucky and want to help those around us rather then put them at risk.
I understand COVID most likely won't be going away and is staying, but I also understand that over time it will change and become less complicated like it is now. If you've worked with COVID patients like I have, you wouldn't be minimizing it so much.
I see a lot of people say we need to have faith over a vaccine, or faith over a mask, but when a living Prophet of God, announces that the vaccine is a direct Godsend, nothing short of miraculous and an answer to our prayers and fasting, I'm not going to argue with that. I've been taught from my youth that faith without works is dead. Ignoring the Prophet's guidance on this or thinking he has been deceived or is wrong is a slippery slope, and if he is reporting this vaccine is basically a miracle, why would I not want my children to be partakers of a modern day miracle?

Your medical background conflicts with many studies btw.

To say that masks have no risk to children is silly. There are both physical and emotional side effects.

The risk of children dying is nearly ZERO%. Literally.

Asymptomatic spread was actually debunked by the WHO. I can show you the study if you'd like.

Covid isn't going away? You mean, the "flu" is here to stay? Haha.

Hospital protocols are killing many flu patients. Not "CV19".

The shot did not come from God, just sayin'. RMN and his cohorts (Q15) literally preach anti-Christian doctrine from the pulpits of the church.

Gaslighting to the extreme.

But I'm sure you are a nice person. I guess.

[Fred]

My husband owns his business and works from home so I don’t have an employer telling me to wear a mask. I shop in-person at local stores including national chains, I eat in restaurants, my ward encourages masks but doesn’t require them, I walk and bike in my neighborhood where I never see anyone masked outside.

The only place in the course of my normal life where I am absolutely required to wear a mask, or go home, is the TEMPLE. Something is seriously wrong.

Yes. I've thought at times, that it is as if the church members, with any authority, such as temple presidents, mission presidents, stake presidents, church president, love this "ok" from the government to push something on their members. It's as if they relish the power more than the freedom. I can't understand it.

The loss of freedom does not affect them yet. The maid does the shopping. Nannys watch any kids. Someone gets paid to read their mail. Their spouse keeps their mouth shut and only interacts with approved drones. The church guy lies about having a testimony wherever he goes. Someone drives him to and from. He does check his own bank account and feels he is doing the Lord's work well. If he speaks in public, he delivers an approved speech. He overhears someone telling his grand son about Ivermectin and he asks his stupor-visor why the church is withholding the truth about Ivermectin and is told that the profit wants people getting the jab and the truth can wait as it is God's plan. He visits his own ward and people stand up when he walks in and treats him like a rock star. They slobber all over themselves and he attempts to act humble. He goes home and his wife knows what a worthless POS he is so he tells her to shut up and sit in the corner.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Another thing I'm trying to wrap my mind around. Suddenly, during covid, support of and following the prophet and defending him publicly is now called gas lighting. That word gets thrown around way too often all because someone thinks and behaves differently. If you look up the definition it means, " manipulate by psychological means into questioning their own sanity." Did I make you question your own sanity? If someone is claiming the prophet and apostles are teaching anti christ doctrine it makes me wonder why they spend time on this website other than to destroy faith and pull people from the iron rod. It says a lot about where someone stands if they don't trust the prophets guidance and counsel, think he has been deceived or a false prophet and publicly say so.

If questioning the brethren "destroys faith", then your faith is misplaced. Your "faith" should never be in the "arm of flesh." Helping people overcome false beliefs, false traditions, and incorrect doctrine will actually help strengthen faith in Christ. My BIL accused me of tearing down faith once. I tried to explain my intent, and that was to actually strengthen faith in Christ. He wasn't going to have any of that. We are actually seeing the ancient prophecies fulfilled, even from the Savior Himself. That should make all of us astounded and strengthen our faith. But, unfortunately, most people don't realize that the OT, NT, and BoM condemn the LDS church (all churches in fact) in the last days.

[EllaJean]

I sincerely apologize for accusing you of destroying faith. I know it hurts when people accuse us of things that are far from the truth. I can't relate to people who believe in the LDS church while at the same time believe following the prophet is trusting in the arm of flesh. My study of this year's come follow me with the doctrine and covenants and using the institute manual has given me insight into much of church history and what Joseph Smith had to deal with from friends turning on him to how he handled the persecution and betrayal. Despite people calling him a false prophet when things didn't go the way they thought it should or how he dealt with things or people when they turned on him parallels so much to our current time. To me, believing the living prophet goes hand in hand with believing in Christ, it's a core fundamental of the gospel. The only way a prophet has been taken out of the midst of people is through unbelief and rejection. And today, because of how President Nelson has guided and counseled us through COVID people are rejecting him also.

Another thing I'm trying to wrap my mind around. Suddenly, during covid, support of and following the prophet and defending him publicly is now called gas lighting. That word gets thrown around way too often all because someone thinks and behaves differently. If you look up the definition it means, " manipulate by psychological means into questioning their own sanity." Did I make you question your own sanity? If someone is claiming the prophet and apostles are teaching anti christ doctrine it makes me wonder why they spend time on this website other than to destroy faith and pull people from the iron rod. It says a lot about where someone stands if they don't trust the prophets guidance and counsel, think he has been deceived or a false prophet and publicly say so.

If questioning the brethren "destroys faith", then your faith is misplaced. Your "faith" should never be in the "arm of flesh." Helping people overcome false beliefs, false traditions, and incorrect doctrine will actually help strengthen faith in Christ. My BIL accused me of tearing down faith once. I tried to explain my intent, and that was to actually strengthen faith in Christ. He wasn't going to have any of that. We are actually seeing the ancient prophecies fulfilled, even from the Savior Himself. That should make all of us astounded and strengthen our faith. But, unfortunately, most people don't realize that the OT, NT, and BoM condemn the LDS church (all churches in fact) in the last days.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I sincerely apologize for accusing you of destroying faith. I know it hurts when people accuse us of things that are far from the truth. I can't relate to people who believe in the LDS church while at the same time believe following the prophet is trusting in the arm of flesh. My study of this year's come follow me with the doctrine and covenants and using the institute manual has given me insight into much of church history and what Joseph Smith had to deal with from friends turning on him to how he handled the persecution and betrayal. Despite people calling him a false prophet when things didn't go the way they thought it should or how he dealt with things or people when they turned on him parallels so much to our current time. To me, believing the living prophet goes hand in hand with believing in Christ, it's a core fundamental of the gospel. The only way a prophet has been taken out of the midst of people is through unbelief and rejection. And today, because of how President Nelson has guided and counseled us through COVID people are rejecting him also.

Uhhhh... our viewpoints on this diverge greatly. Learning from church history from the church is like asking the Ford dealer if their F-150 is any good.

The come follow me manual section 112 completely skipped any commentary about the judgment that will come upon "the Lord's house" and the reason for this happening is due to the church blaspheming His name in His house.

As far as the "arm of flesh", the Lord didn't make any exemptions. Just check out JST Mark 9. The Lord includes even the greatest of all prophets (seers) as having the capacity to transgress, and that we pluck them out if they do so.

[Subcomandante]

The arm of flesh argument relating the vaccines is a rather ridiculous one if one is to look at what the Hebrew says.

It literally means to trust in one's own power, might, mind and strength, to resolve different problems, without invoking the name of Him that created you and caused you to have that power, might, mind, and strength.

In essence, being the natural man. A man that is not keen on listening to God's words as disseminated from His own mouth or by the mouth of those that He calls to be His messengers.

A natural man is an enemy to God. Because he worships that which his hands create, without considering God or His message.

[Reluctant Watchman]

The arm of flesh argument relating the vaccines is a rather ridiculous one if one is to look at what the Hebrew says.

It literally means to trust in one's own power, might, mind and strength, to resolve different problems, without invoking the name of Him that created you and caused you to have that power, might, mind, and strength.

In essence, being the natural man. A man that is not keen on listening to God's words as disseminated from His own mouth or by the mouth of those that He calls to be His messengers.

A natural man is an enemy to God. Because he worships that which his hands create, without considering God or His message.

Read all of 2 Nephi 28 (especially the last 10-12 verses before 30-31), and tell me who the Lord is speaking to when he talks about the "arm of flesh". Then compare that to JST Mark 9. Pretty clear to me. Not to mention the dozens of examples of ancient prophets railing against the Lord's servants and prophets in the last days.

[alurker]

Church members saying it's child abuse to have your child wear a mask is mind blowing and devastating.

Does a child need to wear a mask for this virus? No, they do not. Not a single child has died from this plandemic in the state in which I live. But the physical and mental abuse will carry with them for a long time, especially now that the gubment is ramping up the jab fro 28M youth.

Here is where my medical background comes into play. Because I've taken Microbiology and understand disease process, the transmission of virus's and long term complications from communicable diseases like smallpox and Polio, my children wear masks. They are happy and healthy and fine, the only psychological effects that may get to them is from the adults who have made fun of them. I understand the risks of dying in children are low, but it's not the low risk of death I'm concerned about, it's long term effects. I want my children to have the healthiest lives possible, which leads to a good quality of life. I've worked in healthcare too long to see how poor health affects normal daily function. Study Polio, sometimes the effects of that virus didn't show up until years down the road. Virus's do strange things and effects take time to measure. My sister who is young and healthy is now having heart problems after having COVID 10 months ago. Medical professionals are still learning about the long term effects of COVID and probably will be for some time.
My children are also smart enough to understand they can get COVID and spread it to others, including family or friends who are immunocompromised. You would be surprised how many people are walking around, adults and children who are on medicines for autoimmune diseases or cancer, that suppress their immune systems which in turn makes it a lot more difficult for their bodies to fight off a infection. Even though my children are healthy and the risks are low for them, we understand other's may not be so lucky and want to help those around us rather then put them at risk.
I understand COVID most likely won't be going away and is staying, but I also understand that over time it will change and become less complicated like it is now. If you've worked with COVID patients like I have, you wouldn't be minimizing it so much.
I see a lot of people say we need to have faith over a vaccine, or faith over a mask, but when a living Prophet of God, announces that the vaccine is a direct Godsend, nothing short of miraculous and an answer to our prayers and fasting, I'm not going to argue with that. I've been taught from my youth that faith without works is dead. Ignoring the Prophet's guidance on this or thinking he has been deceived or is wrong is a slippery slope, and if he is reporting this vaccine is basically a miracle, why would I not want my children to be partakers of a modern day miracle?

You are psychologically damaging your children by teaching them that EVERYONE is a threat. The only way to not be a threat is to for an individual to wear a magical token. As soon as a person puts on this magical token then they are not a threat. They take off this magical token and poof they are now a threat.

I refuse to allow others to treat me as such-especially in my own religion. I refuse to treat others as such, especially in my own religion. I will not let others judge me as a threat or not based upon whether I am wearing the approved magical token and I will not judge others as a threat whether they are wearing or not wearing the approved magical token.

I judge someone a threat but behaviors that are actually threatening; such as a coughing fit; someone who looks sweaty and LOOKS unwell, not whether they have some magical bull@#$% device strapped to their face.

[alurker]

I sincerely apologize for accusing you of destroying faith. I know it hurts when people accuse us of things that are far from the truth. I can't relate to people who believe in the LDS church while at the same time believe following the prophet is trusting in the arm of flesh. My study of this year's come follow me with the doctrine and covenants and using the institute manual has given me insight into much of church history and what Joseph Smith had to deal with from friends turning on him to how he handled the persecution and betrayal. Despite people calling him a false prophet when things didn't go the way they thought it should or how he dealt with things or people when they turned on him parallels so much to our current time. To me, believing the living prophet goes hand in hand with believing in Christ, it's a core fundamental of the gospel. The only way a prophet has been taken out of the midst of people is through unbelief and rejection. And today, because of how President Nelson has guided and counseled us through COVID people are rejecting him also.

Another thing I'm trying to wrap my mind around. Suddenly, during covid, support of and following the prophet and defending him publicly is now called gas lighting. That word gets thrown around way too often all because someone thinks and behaves differently. If you look up the definition it means, " manipulate by psychological means into questioning their own sanity." Did I make you question your own sanity? If someone is claiming the prophet and apostles are teaching anti christ doctrine it makes me wonder why they spend time on this website other than to destroy faith and pull people from the iron rod. It says a lot about where someone stands if they don't trust the prophets guidance and counsel, think he has been deceived or a false prophet and publicly say so.

If questioning the brethren "destroys faith", then your faith is misplaced. Your "faith" should never be in the "arm of flesh." Helping people overcome false beliefs, false traditions, and incorrect doctrine will actually help strengthen faith in Christ. My BIL accused me of tearing down faith once. I tried to explain my intent, and that was to actually strengthen faith in Christ. He wasn't going to have any of that. We are actually seeing the ancient prophecies fulfilled, even from the Savior Himself. That should make all of us astounded and strengthen our faith. But, unfortunately, most people don't realize that the OT, NT, and BoM condemn the LDS church (all churches in fact) in the last days.

You are correct; people in the Church treat the leaders not that they represent Christ but that they ARE Christ.

You and others who treat masks as some magical bull@#$ device are doing the very thing that you claim others are doing; I understand it is not your intent but you are trying to get other people to question their own reality.

I put on a mask, I am now not longer a threat. I take off the mask, I am a threat . . .but as long as I take off the mask at certain "approved" times I'm now no longer a threat. For example, Elder Bednar and his wife can give a talk to a room full of people without a mask and they aren't a threat. Everyone else has to wear a mask because they are a threat; but they can remove the mask for just a second and then they aren't a threat anymore. At GC, the speaker can remove the mask for 20+ minutes and he/she isn't a threat; but as soon as he/she sits down the mask better be up or they are a threat again.

It's a bunch of bull@#$# rules just to satisfy a bunch of narcissitic, self-centered people who can't deal with the fact that @$% happens in life and sometimes it happens to you; sometimes you get sick and sometimes you die from it and that's just the way life is. It's not fair and there is no "justice" in it; but it happens and rather than learn to live with it and deal with it, these other a$$holes are terrified of getting sick demand that everyone in society act like a bunch of scared witless fools.

You wore a mask for a year and now claim that this magical bull##$@ device is what prevented you from getting sick.

I've traveled all over the country, traveled around the world over the last two years, only wearing masks when I absolutely have to (i.e. planes) and guess what; I've interacted with thousands of people. I have been exposed to it multiple times over by this point. I haven't had anything more than a bad cold.

I refuse to let anyone blame me for the death of their loved one b/c I didn't wear a mask. Crap happens in life, learn to deal with it.

[alurker]

I sincerely apologize for accusing you of destroying faith. I know it hurts when people accuse us of things that are far from the truth. I can't relate to people who believe in the LDS church while at the same time believe following the prophet is trusting in the arm of flesh.

The only people who I've ever met over the last several months who get upset, distraught, down-right mad and offended at members who say "nah, I'm not doing that" are those individuals who they themselves have a very, very weak testimony of Christ.

They have a testimony of the organization of the Church; they have a testimony of the goodness of other men; they will tell you until they are blue in the face about how great such and such leader is, how inspired so-and-so is; they loooove to get up on their little rameumptons and explain to everyone how blessed they are, how wonderful they are, how awesome, how holy; how special as a people the church is; isn't it wonderful to have so-and-so led us today.

But they never and I mean never sing praises to Christ for redeeming their soul. They simply do not do it; they speak plenty ABOUT Christ, but they never speak of Him actually rescuing THEM. Christ is always rescuing others, but not them, b/c you see they are holy; they are awesome, they really don't have a need for Christ personally; they have a need to be seen by other men as being good Christians.

I don't have a problem with someone who takes the vax b/c the President said so, but they always and inevitably have a problem with me for not doing so.

Because in their mind the President of the Church IS Christ manifest in the flesh and to disobey the President is to disobey Christ and one can only have that attitude if one has never had a real meaningful understanding that it is Christ who saves us, not the President of the Church.

[alurker]

My study of this year's come follow me with the doctrine and covenants and using the institute manual has given me insight into much of church history and what Joseph Smith had to deal with from friends turning on him to how he handled the persecution and betrayal.

I wonder if they are going to tell you when you get to 132 that there is no original copy of the revelation. Emma "supposedly" threw it into the fire and then no one knew hide nor hair of the actual words of the revelation until 1853 which it was then published in the Seer 9 years after JS death and that somehow this 1843 revelation gets into the hands of Orson Pratt for publication. Quite the miracle, 1843 revelation goes poof no original copy but is then produced word for word by Orson Pratt 9 years later.

Joseph Smith had to deal with a lot of things and probably the worst of it all was evil adulterous men fornicating with other men's wives and then claiming that Joseph Smith gave them authority to do so all the while never producing any original manuscript from Joseph Smith about it.

(I'm looking at you Brigham Young and your adulterous affairs with women who had husbands).

[alurker]

A really good article if you want to see the future:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts ... fore-bauer