Joseph Smith and the White Horse Prophecy

[pjbrownie]

Is this controversial. I remember hearing that it's bogus. Anyway, here it is.

The Mormon Elder John J. Roberts recorded a prophecy made by Joseph Smith, the founder of the LDS Church, during a grand review of the Nauvoo Legion in May 1843. Theodore Turley also was present at the conversation. He reiterated the prophecy during a sermon about two weeks later. Smith said:
"I want to tell you something. I will speak in a parable like unto John the Revelator.
"You will go to the Rocky Mountains and you will be a great and mighty people established there, which I will call the 'White Horse of Peace and Safety'... I shall never go there. Your enemies will continue to follow you with persecutions and will make obnoxious laws against you in Congress to destroy the White Horse, but you will have a friend or two to defend you to throw out the worst part of the laws, so they will not hurt much. You must continue to petition Congress all the time, but they will treat you like strangers and aliens and will not give you your rights but will govern you with strangers and commissioners; you will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed; it will hang by a thread, as it were, as fine as the finest silk fiber.
"I love the Constitution; it was made under the inspiration of God, and will be preserved and saved by the efforts of the White Horse and the Red Horse [the Indians] who will combine in its defense. The White Horse will raise an ensign on the tops of the mountains of peace and safety. The White Horse will find the mountains full of minerals and they will become very rich. You will see silver piled up in the streets.
"You will see gold shoveled up like sand. Gold will be of little value even in a mercantile capacity, for the people of the world will have something else to do in seeking for salvation.
"The time will come when the banks in every nation will fail and only two places will be safe where people can deposit their gold and treasures. These places will be the White Horse and England’s vaults.
"A terrible revolution will take place in America such as has never been seen before, for the land will be literally left without a supreme government, and every species of wickedness will be rampant. It will be so terrible that father will be against son, mother against daughter, and daughter against mother. The most terrible scenes of murder, bloodshed, and rapine that has ever been looked on will take place. Peace will be taken from the earth, and there will be peace only in the Rocky Mountains. This will cause many thousands of honest heart to gather there, not because they would be saints but for safety and because they would not take up the sword against their neighbor.
"You will be so numerous that you will be in danger of famine, but not for the want of seed time and harvest, but because of so many to be fed. Many will come with bundles under their arms to escape the calamities, and there will be no escape except by fleeing to Zion.
"Those that come to you will try to keep the laws and be one with you, for they will see your unity and the greatness of your organization.
"The Turkish Empire or the Crescent will be one of the first nations that will be disrupted, for freedom must be given for the Gospel to be preached in the Holy Land.
"The Lord took of the best blood of the nations and planted them on the small islands now known as England and Great Britain, and gave them great power in the nations for a thousand years and their power will continue with them, that they may keep the balance of power and keep Russia from usurping her power all over the world. England and France are now bitter enemies, but they will be allied together and be united to keep Russia from conquering the world.
"The two Popes, Greek and Catholic, will come together and be united...
"While the terrible revolution of which I have spoken is going on, England will be neutral until it becomes so inhuman that she will interfere to stop the shedding of blood. England and France will unite together to subdue the nations; they will find the nations so broken up and so many claiming government, till there will be no responsible government.
"Then it will appear to the other nations or powers as though England had taken possession of the country. The Black horse will flee to the invaders and join with them, for they will have fear of the coming slaves again, knowing England did not believe in slavery; fleeing to them they believe would make them safe; armed with British bayonets, the doings of the Black Horse will be terrible...
"During this time the White Horse will have gathered strength, sending out Elders to gather the honest in heart among the Pale Horse, or people of the United States, to stand by the Constitution of the United States, as it was given by the inspiration of God.
"In these days God will set up a kingdom, never to be thrown down, for other kingdoms to come unto. And these kingdoms that will not let the Gospel be preached will be humbled until they will.
"England, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Holland, and Belgium have a considerable amount of blood of Israel among their people which must be gathered. These nations will submit to the kingdom of God. England will be the last of these kingdoms to surrender, but when she does so it will be as a whole in comparison as she threw off the Catholic power. The nobility know that the Gospel is true but it has not enough pomp and grandeur and influence for them to embrace it. They are proud, and will not acknowledge the Kingdom of God, or come unto it, until they see the power which it will have.
"Peace and safety in the Rocky Mountains will be protected by a cordon band of the White Horse and the Red Horse.
"The coming of the 10 Tribes of Israel, the coming of the Messiah among his people, will be so natural that only those who see Him will know that He has come, but he will come and give his laws unto Zion, and minister unto His people. This will not be His coming in the clouds of heaven to take vengeance upon the wicked of the world.
"The Temple in Jackson County will be built in this generation. The saints will think there will not be time to build it, but with all the help you will receive you will put up a great temple quickly. They will have all the gold, silver, and precious stone; for these things only will be used for the beautifying of the temple; all the skilled mechanics you want, and the Ten Tribes of Israel will help you build it. When you see this land bound with iron you may look to Jackson County...
"There is a land beyond the Rocky Mountains that will be invaded by the heathen Chinese unless great care and protection are given. Speaking of the heathen, where there is no law there is no condemnation; this will apply to them.
"Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke nations afar off, and they will be one with the White Horse, but when the law goes forth they will obey; for the law will go forth from Zion.
"The last great struggle that Zion will have to contend with is when the whole of the Americas will be made the Zion of our God.
"Those opposing will be called Gog and Magog. The nations of the world led by the Russian Czar and their power, will be great, but all opposition will be overcome and this land will be the Zion of our God."
Another prophecy uttered by Joseph Smith told how the Saints would go to the Rocky Mountains and become a great and wealthy people. In the latter days, however, Smith said:
"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, 'Let's divide up the lands of the United States'; then the people of the US will unite and swear by the blood of their forefathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the US Army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up --- when the boys from the mountains rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, 'Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God'. Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."

[pjbrownie]

I'm going to break it down - it can be a bit wordy and confusing - when I some time on my break at work. In the meantime, give me your two cents.

[MercynGrace]

The White Horse prophecy is a collection of remembered statements pieced together by two men whose integrity seems to be intact. Nevertheless, the statement itself was formulated some ten years after they were supposed to have heard the prophet utter the various ideas composing the prophecy.

Elder McConkie calls it "false and deceptive" in Mormon Doctrine. And this article addresses authenticity at length http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/whitehorse.pdf The concept that the constitution would hang by a thread seems to be related to this written recollection and that particular idea has been reiterated in GC frequently for more than a hundred years but the rest of the White Horse 'prophecy' seems to have been dismissed and there doesn't appear to be any reference to it on lds.org

[mirkwood]

I'd have to say this statement kills off any credibility in the White Horse Prophecy:

The ridiculous story about the "red horse," and "the black horse," and "the white horse," and a lot of trash that has been circulated about and printed and sent around as a great revelation given by the Prophet Joseph Smith, is a matter that was gotten up, I understand, some ten years after the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by two of our brethren who put together some broken sentences from the Prophet that they may have-heard him utter from time to time, and formulated this so called revelation out of it, and it was never spoken by the prophet in the manner in which they have out it forth. It is simply false: that is all there is to it. (Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1918, p.58.)

[jbalm]

Thanks mirkwood.

Now I don't have to try to figure out all of those different colored horses.

Never could make much sense of it. And based on what I've read, Joseph Smith wasn't so cryptic in his real prophecies anyway.

[pjbrownie]

I'd have to say this statement kills off any credibility in the White Horse Prophecy:

The ridiculous story about the "red horse," and "the black horse," and "the white horse," and a lot of trash that has been circulated about and printed and sent around as a great revelation given by the Prophet Joseph Smith, is a matter that was gotten up, I understand, some ten years after the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by two of our brethren who put together some broken sentences from the Prophet that they may have-heard him utter from time to time, and formulated this so called revelation out of it, and it was never spoken by the prophet in the manner in which they have out it forth. It is simply false: that is all there is to it. (Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1918, p.58.)

So he said something, its just uncertain as what exactly he said - too much uncertainty. Too bad we don't know exactly what he said.

[clarkkent14]

Read this on the matter: http://www.box.net/shared/tqncpj9his

It should cover all of your questions and concerns.

[ryanjenny1997]

Some do believe the white horse prophesy is a joke. Well, so far much of it has already come true. I believe it is fairly accurate. Think about China for example. , when this prophesy was recorded China was nothing. Later, In WW2 China almost lost to Japan. So why would Joseph mention China hitting the usa back when they were nothing. So if the prophesy has a lot already proven true, then why not future events as well.

Match this prophesy with others including statements Mosiah Hancock recorded, and we see a pattern here.

Pattern in all things. God has a pattern of giving the righteous the blessings of visions and dreams, especially before destruction. Many today are having them, and many fit a similar pattern, etc

Brigham Young and others made many statements of similar pattern. The Red Horse, the indians will rise up and be powerful. We know the Rocky Mountains will be a safe haven for the saints, etc. Salt lake will probably get dumped though, gee wonder why! Salt Lake county voted majority for Obama. The Book of Mormon talks about similar pattern with jacob, etc.

[pjbrownie]

My sentiments exactly. It may not be "binding" and it has been softly denounced (probably because members were running around attributing it as binding from Joseph Smith). It probably has some inaccuracies. I see a few as I read it. The idea that France and England have anything good in mind in the last days is a fallacy. There is no recording of the invasion of a modern Assyrian force to liberate the Saints from modern Babylon as we see in Isaiah. Other than that, it seems to stand up pretty well. There is no silver in the streets, but I can wait and see on that one. The character of the bretheren who compiled the prophecy is not in question, so I believe Joseph probably did say something along these lines. We just have to take it with a grain of salt.

[HeirofNumenor]

Read "Prophecy: Key to the Future" by Duane S. Crowther (published 1962, revised 1995). His appendix has the White Horse Prophecy in full, along with a paragraph by paragraph breakdown of each section, with comparisons to similar statements by the Apostles, as well as how individual points seem to have been fulfilled or validated.

He does make the disclaimer that he doesn't know if the prophecy is true or not, but that many points seem to have been fulfilled or substantiated.

[firend]

Read "Prophecy: Key to the Future" by Duane S. Crowther (published 1962, revised 1995). His appendix has the White Horse Prophecy in full, along with a paragraph by paragraph breakdown of each section, with comparisons to similar statements by the Apostles, as well as how individual points seem to have been fulfilled or validated.

He does make the disclaimer that he doesn't know if the prophecy is true or not, but that many points seem to have been fulfilled or substantiated.

ya, great book. I think he gets most of it right. By the way, I like your smiley face picture, cool! or hot! lol