The Santa Claus Effect in the LDS church

[Reluctant Watchman]

Brent Metcalfe was a former church security guard for the church. He recently shared this story about what we could call "The Santa Claus Effect."

"One of the worst experiences I had as a parent was having my son come in to me and – gosh, he has to have been around 5 or 6 – and the neighbor son across the street, and he happened to be the pastor of the local Evangelical Church told him: Did you know that Santa Claus isn’t real? And here I am sitting at the desk in my little office and my son comes in and his friend is with him. And he goes, “so… so.. Santa’s not real – like the ones in the malls, right?” And he’s trying to explain this, and I’m feeling, oh - this is so going to go south; This is not going to go well. And he’s just looking like, “Dad – you told me the truth, right?” And oh my gosh. From then on it was like, I will never lie to my kids again about any cultural tradition, about anything, because the look on his face while he’s trying to explain to me that what we’re talking about are the Santas in the malls and that the real Santa still exists."

So does this happen within the church? Do we have our own flavor of Santa Clause? Below is an experience Metcalfe had while picking up E. Peterson from the airport: (edited slightly from the original podcast to improve readability)

"One of the nights, I was called to pick up Elder Mark E. Peterson from the airport. And so I did… and on the way home from the airport he was actually one of the most cordial General Authorities and members of the 12 I had ever had any personal interaction with (which kind of surprised me), he was very talkative and we were talking back and forth (Boyd K. Packer, by the way, was just the opposite)… So we’re driving him home and I thought, “Oh, I’m just going to go there, I’m going to say, ‘you know, I’m wondering what you would think about this idea. A friend of mine, who’s an LDS apologist and has written this pamphlet that takes this position that the Adam-God theory is false, but yes, Brigham Young taught it, but he’s still a true prophet. Right?

Before I could even get the words out – Mark E. Peterson, unlike others who would usually sit in the back when I would drive them home from the airport, was sitting right next to me in the passenger’s seat. He was already shaking his head. And he said, “No. No. We can never admit this. If we do, we will have members becoming fundamentalists; they’ll be leaving the church; we can never, ever admit this.” And I was just like so taken aback, because he was basically acknowledging, yes – he taught this, but no – we can never admit to it, because this would be a travesty for so many people’s faith, and we cannot be responsible for that. And of course, any historian who’s worth their salt knows that Brigham Young taught it. Whether you’re devout LDS or not, you know that.

(speaking to a friend)…So they asked me, what do you think people find most distressing about the LDS church that causes them to leave? And I said, if there’s one thing that history has told me, and I gave the Adam God theory as an example, it’s that when people discover that Brigham Young taught Adam God, that doesn’t always cause them to leave, it’s when they find out that a General Authority has lied about it. That blows their testimonies out of the water. And I just said, you know, that’s what I’ve learned through all of this. Sooner or later, they’re going to discover that Santa Claus doesn’t exist."

It's not Adam-God theory that I care about in this story, what I find interesting is how the church sets up certain expectations by telling you the "truth" (#puretruth) and then you come to find out—if you choose to dig deeper—that they have lied to you.

If you set your testimony upon the pillars of the brethren they will eventually fail you. This is a fact. You'll learn or find out about something they've said or done and your testimony in them will crumble... but ONLY if that is where your testimony resides. That's why the counsel given by Jesus Christ in various canons of scripture is so important. Trust in Him and Him alone. Yes, we can learn many wonderful lessons by inspired men and women, but only if the Spirit adds a confirming witness to their words.

Come to understand who the Savior truly is, what He taught, and how He is trying to teach, strengthen, guide, heal, and love you.

[Luke]

Before I could even get the words out – Mark E. Peterson, unlike others who would usually sit in the back when I would drive them home from the airport, was sitting right next to me in the passenger’s seat. He was already shaking his head. And he said, “No. No. We can never admit this. If we do, we will have members becoming fundamentalists; they’ll be leaving the church; we can never, ever admit this.”

Good!!

At least Petersen tacitly admitted where the truth was at

[Robin Hood]

I feel strongly about this. We should be open and honest about our past etc and not hide anything.
And yet, I've done the same thing myself. I've withheld certain information from investigators, or from family members and others, because I don't want to cause them distress and injure their faith. It's called being economical with the truth and I do it sometimes without even thinking - it's a kind of default setting.
I have even repeated faith promoting stories which I know for a fact have questionable provenance at best, in order to bolster someone's faith.
Has 45+ years as a Mormon done this to me, or is it common human behaviour?

Regarding the issue of Santa Claus/Father Christmas and other traditions, I don't think we should lie to our children.

[Juliet]

What I don't like is we seem to have a very hierarchal top down control structure in our church. I don't think it was ever meant to be that way. Let people have the details and decide for themselves. We have had countless discussions here about polygamy and people still don't really know if it was a true doctrine or not. The reason why is because, at least for half of the population if I may so speak, most women get a really awful sick feeling thinking that God would want polygamy for any other reason than a temporary situation where all the men died in war and there was no other way to procreate. And to sit there and go on and on that something is true that makes half the population physically sick in their gut is severely unrighteous. Even in the war in heaven, people were allowed to believe as they may. Why we cannot extend that same benefit to members of the church without excommunicating them is beyond me. I mean eventually satan and his hosts were cast out; but not after a very strong warring of testimonies.

It will always be up to the members to gain their own testimony of what is true and what is not. It is important to learn the truth for oneself and not rely on the culture or attitude of others. Because the majority is sometimes wrong.

Alma 45:13-14 really stood out to me this week. If there is one thing I am grateful that I have learned is that what happened in the Book of Mormon often repeats itself today.

13 And when that great day cometh, behold the time very soon cometh that those who are now, or the seed of those who are now numbered among the people of Nephi, shall no more be numbered among the people of Nephi.
14. But whosover remaineth, and is not destroyed in that great and dreadful day, shall be numbered among the Lamanites, and shall become like unto them, all, save it be a few who shall be called the disciples of the Lord; and them shall the Lamanites pursue even until they shall become extinct. And now, because of iniquity, this prophecy shall be fulfilled.

[Gazelem]

This is an example of why our faith should be rooted in Jesus Christ. Men will fail us. Leaders shouldn’t be afraid of members finding out the truth about anything so long as they have correctly taught to have faith in the Savior. If one has built their foundation on Christ, who is perfect, that is sufficient. Whether it takes someone out of the church or whether they stay in after discovery of hard truths, as long as they have the Savior in their life. May I quote: Helaman 5:12.

“ 12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.”

[Reluctant Watchman]

I have even repeated faith promoting stories which I know for a fact have questionable provenance at best, in order to bolster someone's faith.

Has 45+ years as a Mormon done this to me, or is it common human behaviour?

A very interesting question. Something worth pondering. I have some ideas, but I'll think about it more.

[Baurak Ale]

Before I could even get the words out – Mark E. Peterson, unlike others who would usually sit in the back when I would drive them home from the airport, was sitting right next to me in the passenger’s seat. He was already shaking his head. And he said, “No. No. We can never admit this. If we do, we will have members becoming fundamentalists; they’ll be leaving the church; we can never, ever admit this.”

Good!!

At least Petersen tacitly admitted where the truth was at

The problem is that without revelation, future church leaders were unable to explain the doctrine correctly. From the perspective of successive leadership, it’s embarrassing to say you can’t explain a doctrine, but even worse to admit that the Lord has said nothing to you about it.

Ultimately the lies we get from the brethren seem to be mounted as a defense against the worst truth of all: the well of revelation (at least pertaining to the mysteries) has been dry for sometime.

[Baurak Ale]

I feel strongly about this. We should be open and honest about our past etc and not hide anything.
And yet, I've done the same thing myself. I've withheld certain information from investigators, or from family members and others, because I don't want to cause them distress and injure their faith. It's called being economical with the truth and I do it sometimes without even thinking - it's a kind of default setting.
I have even repeated faith promoting stories which I know for a fact have questionable provenance at best, in order to bolster someone's faith.
Has 45+ years as a Mormon done this to me, or is it common human behaviour?

Regarding the issue of Santa Claus/Father Christmas and other traditions, I don't think we should lie to our children.

Agreed. From the start of our marriage, my wife and I decided to only tell our children the truth where it could be comprehended. Hence my children, with implicit trust in our teachings, can tell you all about how the historical Saint Nicholas is dead and how the historical Christ lives.

[JuneBug12000]

Yeah, it bothers my husband that I won't lie about Santa. We also don't celebrate Halloween. That has been really hard for my husband, but he is starting to come around.

[alurker]

Yeah, it bothers my husband that I won't lie about Santa. We also don't celebrate Halloween. That has been really hard for my husband, but he is starting to come around.

I don't mind either; Halloween and Santa Clause both have very good Christian roots.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Yeah, it bothers my husband that I won't lie about Santa. We also don't celebrate Halloween. That has been really hard for my husband, but he is starting to come around.

I don't mind either; Halloween and Santa Clause both have very good Christian roots.

Christian or Pagan?
I'm not a fan of either modern holiday.

[JuneBug12000]

Yeah, it bothers my husband that I won't lie about Santa. We also don't celebrate Halloween. That has been really hard for my husband, but he is starting to come around.

I don't mind either; Halloween and Santa Clause both have very good Christian roots.

I'll stick with the roots and skip the corrupt fruit.

[alurker]

Yeah, it bothers my husband that I won't lie about Santa. We also don't celebrate Halloween. That has been really hard for my husband, but he is starting to come around.

I don't mind either; Halloween and Santa Clause both have very good Christian roots.

Christian or Pagan?
I'm not a fan of either modern holiday.

It has deep Christian roots;

Pagan vs. Christian lol. I'm not mocking it's just the concept is so ludicrious. The only thing that "Pagan" really is is an inversion of something true.

Baal was a "pagan" god, yet the worship of Baal is well within the Christian story (i.e. it's an example of what not to do).
Halloween is just precuser to All Saint's Day. That's why it's call Halloween-All Hallow's Eve-the eve before All Saints Day.

Santa Clause-St. Nicolas and actual Saint. Geez, research a bit.

I agree the commercialization is bad-but that's not what these holidays are about.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Geez, research a bit.

That's how little I care about either holiday because of what they've become.

[alurker]

Geez, research a bit.

That's how little I care about either holiday because of what they've become.

Touche.

I can see that.

[neverendingthoughts]

Yeah, it bothers my husband that I won't lie about Santa. We also don't celebrate Halloween. That has been really hard for my husband, but he is starting to come around.

I don't mind either; Halloween and Santa Clause both have very good Christian roots.

Christian or Pagan?
I'm not a fan of either modern holiday.

It has deep Christian roots;

Pagan vs. Christian lol. I'm not mocking it's just the concept is so ludicrious. The only thing that "Pagan" really is is an inversion of something true.

Baal was a "pagan" god, yet the worship of Baal is well within the Christian story (i.e. it's an example of what not to do).
Halloween is just precuser to All Saint's Day. That's why it's call Halloween-All Hallow's Eve-the eve before All Saints Day.

Santa Clause-St. Nicolas and actual Saint. Geez, research a bit.

I agree the commercialization is bad-but that's not what these holidays are about.

I am pretty sure in some religious communities whom claim the OT as scripture for themselves pagan IS Christianity. How this all works out I think should be pretty fascinating.

[Robin Hood]

Yeah, it bothers my husband that I won't lie about Santa. We also don't celebrate Halloween. That has been really hard for my husband, but he is starting to come around.

We won't have anything to do with Halloween, and we don't observe Christmas either.

[Lizzy60]

I was wondering why Santa Claus is often misspelled. I found the answer:

....”Is it Santa Clause or Santa Claus? While both of these spellings are Christmas related, only one is the proper spelling of Saint Nick's name. Santa Clause is a 1994 movie starring Tim Allen. Santa Claus is the man who delivers presents on Christmas day.”

I don’t like Halloween and never have. I will have nacho cheese doritos for the neighborhood kids because I like my neighbors (100% non-LDS).

[Reluctant Watchman]

I was wondering why Santa Claus is often misspelled. I found the answer:

....”Is it Santa Clause or Santa Claus? While both of these spellings are Christmas related, only one is the proper spelling of Saint Nick's name. Santa Clause is a 1994 movie starring Tim Allen. Santa Claus is the man who delivers presents on Christmas day.”

I don’t like Halloween and never have. I will have nacho cheese doritos for the neighborhood kids because I like my neighbors (100% non-LDS).

Haha, thanks for pointing that out. I misspelled it simply because it was referenced in the podcast that way.

[Luke]

Lorin Woolley actually made this comment on this day many years ago:

“Halloween is a corruption of Elohim, having reference to the evening—October 31st—supposed to be the date when Elohim said, ‘Let us go down and make an earth.’” (Lorin C. Woolley, Book of Remembrance, pg. 40, 18 October 1832)

[Lizzy60]

I was wondering why Santa Claus is often misspelled. I found the answer:

....”Is it Santa Clause or Santa Claus? While both of these spellings are Christmas related, only one is the proper spelling of Saint Nick's name. Santa Clause is a 1994 movie starring Tim Allen. Santa Claus is the man who delivers presents on Christmas day.”

I don’t like Halloween and never have. I will have nacho cheese doritos for the neighborhood kids because I like my neighbors (100% non-LDS).

Haha, thanks for pointing that out. I misspelled it simply because it was referenced in the podcast that way.

This is funny —- someone else made the same mistake and covered their goof humorously.

https://thevoiceofpelham.ca/2015/12/16/clause-vs-claus/

[abijah`]

I've been growing in sympathy for the viewpoint that the Church is and has been in dire straits. Part of my reluctance has had a lot to do with the spirit that I so often see animating people who are anti-LDS, to the point I can come to little other conclusion than that the devil hates the Church, and that he has un insatiable appetite for rage, from within the hearts of people with a chip on their shoulder against it.

There's something about peoples' feelings about the Mormon religion that touches upon the supernatural, opening up a rift for spirits to enter, and animate. Good ones, or evil ones.

Nonetheless, the Council of the Twelve are where the earthly buck stops, regarding their heavenly mandate. But I've seen a Sword of Damacles hanging over them and it worries me.

Not because I feel I depend on them. I don't. If Joseph Smith turned out to be the False Prophet, and the LDS Church turned out to be the Antichrist's personal war`chariot, it wouldn't faze me.

Spiritual self reliance... right? I have it. I don't need the apostles, and I haven't for a long time.

I have zero stock in defending the Twelve. If abijah stood before them in a judgement hall, they would doubtless condemn me. I genuinely feel I have nothing to gain, personally, familially, or elsewise by sticking my neck out for them.

But on my other hand, the Spirit whispers to my soul, bearing record of some unspoken value to be found in holding my tongue, and defending those who would be loathe to reciprocate. I can't explain it. But its real. I've felt it so many times, and ¿what, am I supposed to deny what I'm told on one side, while accepting the other?

The Twelve will have their reckoning. I know it.

But I also know, or rather, I also feel that when they do, the distinction of who was right and who was wrong won't be based on any kind of touchstone people would have suspected.

Because while the Church veritably suffers from a certain cancer, there's some kind of spiritual/supernatural effect on people who oppose that cancer, in a way where it infects them in a proper nasty way.

I honestly don't know what the answer is. -But my inclination for the time being is that it is Love which is the appropriate response to freshly red-pilled mormons. Cheesy, innit.

I like the "Santa Claus" analogy. It speaks to a pernicious reality residing within the collective psyche of modern mormonism.

In the modern west, you could almost consider the realisation of Santa being fake as being a cultural rite-of-passage into the world and possibility of cognitive dissonance. A ritual amongst a modern culture bent on rejecting anything ritual.

I think the Church as being like Santa is proper apt, regarding LDS who wake up to what the Church really is.

But like I said before -- we should observe ourselves in our situation, and then look outward thru a lens of love. We should be cognizant of how the devil has been granted special access into the hearts of people who hate the Church. Its a paradoxical, but genuine reality, so far as I can tell.

Because the cognitive dissonance a TBM has to suffer through, once they see thru the matrix, is a proper serious thing. How is it not our mandate to help them, and be a lifeline for them? I've seen it in strangers, I've seen it in girlfriends, and I've seen it in family members. It can mess with your head, in a proper unhealthy way.

We who know about the reality of the Church have a choice in how we respond.

We can nurture these people, seeing thru a lens of empathy; or we can hoist ourselves to a "I-told-you-so" type of attitude, proper cancerous, I've felt it before, and it leaves a bitter, ugly taste in my mouth.

Just because we know Santa isn't real doesn't mean we need to allow evil spirits to animate enmity within us for people who do.

Satan preys on truth-knowers, eager to use their dis-ignorance against them.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I feel there needs to be a distinction between calling out evil acts or false beliefs and personal condemnation. I can love the Q15, but not “sustain” them in their actions. It would also not be charitable to allow abusive doctrine to be taught to our children. It all depends on your perspective.

[tribrac]

Why is Mark E. Peterson the central figure in so many apocryphal (and probably sensational) Mormon legends?

Maybe his name is easy to remember and it rolls off the tongue so smooth.

[abijah`]

I feel there needs to be a distinction between calling out evil acts or false beliefs and personal condemnation.

Yeah. You're right.

The distinction is real, and Christ occupies the space b/w this truth vs it's falsehood.

Personal condemnation always has a reciprocal price-to-pay, because judgement begets judgement, and all judgers must be judged upon the judgement they mete.

"Calling out" -- as you say -- is something different. Otherwise, all the prophets of the OT would be under condemnation. God has the prerogative to use imperfect people to voice His will, to exhibit His panoramas.

The point I'm trying to make is this: it is so often, that I see this "calling out" to overlap with a demonic spiritual energy, a proper corrupting-force. It makes my toes clench, and the hair on my neck stand up like little else, and I NEED TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT. I've seen it in others and in myself: hatred for the LDS Church is like cherry pie to satan, he'll eat that right up.

Now, I think there is a space for calling-out the LDS Church on its issues, but I think it should be done proper carefully.

Because I can't help but notice that LDS-critics have a way of deteriorating, in direct conjunction and correlation with their anger/enmity/resentment towards the Church.

So, yeah. The Church isn't what it claims to be.

But Satan lies in wait for the bitter person w/ a chip on their shoulder who realises ^that.