What does Isaiah 24:5 mean to you?

[Mamabear]

Just read Isaiah chapter 24 today. Verse 5 stuck out like a sore thumb because of what was said in conference yesterday. I’m curious to get your thoughts. I haven’t been to the temple since January 2020 so I have not witnessed the changes.
Listening to Russell Nelson yesterday almost gave me a panic attack because I thought he was going change something major about the temple by the way he spoke. But he didn’t. I think maybe a future change will come and I really hope I’m wrong.

[Luke]

D&C 104
52 The covenants being broken through transgression, by covetousness and feigned words--
53 Therefore, you are dissolved as a united order with your brethren, that you are not bound only up to this hour unto them, only on this wise, as I said, by loan as shall be agreed by this order in council, as your circumstances will admit and the voice of the council direct.

[JLHPROF]

Just read Isaiah chapter 24 today. Verse 5 stuck out like a sore thumb because of what was said in conference yesterday. I’m curious to get your thoughts. I haven’t been to the temple since January 2020 so I have not witnessed the changes.
Listening to Russell Nelson yesterday almost gave me a panic attack because I thought he was going change something major about the temple by the way he spoke. But he didn’t. I think maybe a future change will come and I really hope I’m wrong.

They've already hacked and slashed the temple so much that Isaiah 24:5 has been fulfilled.
What difference would any more changes make?

[InfoWarrior82]

The temple(s) have already been desecrated.

The physical building and its ordinances as well as our bodies. Both desecrated by church leaders.

[Mamabear]

D&C 104
52 The covenants being broken through transgression, by covetousness and feigned words--
53 Therefore, you are dissolved as a united order with your brethren, that you are not bound only up to this hour unto them, only on this wise, as I said, by loan as shall be agreed by this order in council, as your circumstances will admit and the voice of the council direct.

Thank you. Yes, I agree. The part I’m focusing on is how they ”changed the ordinance”.
From Avraham Gileadi’s apocalyptic commentary it says, “Causing these curses is the wickedness of Jehovah”s people, who have altered his “ordinances” or “ritual” and perverted his laws or doctrine thereby violating Jehovah’s covenant and rendering it void.”
https://www.isaiahexplained.com/24#commentary

[Mamabear]

Just read Isaiah chapter 24 today. Verse 5 stuck out like a sore thumb because of what was said in conference yesterday. I’m curious to get your thoughts. I haven’t been to the temple since January 2020 so I have not witnessed the changes.
Listening to Russell Nelson yesterday almost gave me a panic attack because I thought he was going change something major about the temple by the way he spoke. But he didn’t. I think maybe a future change will come and I really hope I’m wrong.

They've already hacked and slashed the temple so much that Isaiah 24:5 has been fulfilled.
What difference would any more changes make?

How have they?

[JLHPROF]

Just read Isaiah chapter 24 today. Verse 5 stuck out like a sore thumb because of what was said in conference yesterday. I’m curious to get your thoughts. I haven’t been to the temple since January 2020 so I have not witnessed the changes.
Listening to Russell Nelson yesterday almost gave me a panic attack because I thought he was going change something major about the temple by the way he spoke. But he didn’t. I think maybe a future change will come and I really hope I’m wrong.

They've already hacked and slashed the temple so much that Isaiah 24:5 has been fulfilled.
What difference would any more changes make?

How have they?

What hasn't been changed?

Covenants - reworded and meaning changed
Priesthood robes - changed (items removed)
Garments - changed (items removed)
Penalties - removed making signs and tokens incomplete
Key words - changed
Parting the veil - no longer taught
Temple prayer - no longer permitted for personal use
Tokens (priesthood) - no longer received individually, now like someone else's baptism or ordination applying to you.

To be clear, I do believe the theatrical portion can change - ie the presentation. Reading the history shows that clearly.
But of the elements related to priesthood and revelation there's very little left.

[Mamabear]

Just read Isaiah chapter 24 today. Verse 5 stuck out like a sore thumb because of what was said in conference yesterday. I’m curious to get your thoughts. I haven’t been to the temple since January 2020 so I have not witnessed the changes.
Listening to Russell Nelson yesterday almost gave me a panic attack because I thought he was going change something major about the temple by the way he spoke. But he didn’t. I think maybe a future change will come and I really hope I’m wrong.

They've already hacked and slashed the temple so much that Isaiah 24:5 has been fulfilled.
What difference would any more changes make?

How have they?

What hasn't been changed?

Covenants - reworded and meaning changed
Priesthood robes - changed (items removed)
Garments - changed (items removed)
Penalties - removed making signs and tokens incomplete
Key words - changed
Parting the veil - no longer taught
Temple prayer - no longer permitted for personal use
Tokens (priesthood) - no longer received individually, now like someone else's baptism or ordination applying to you.

To be clear, I do believe the theatrical portion can change - ie the presentation. Reading the history shows that clearly.
But of the elements related to priesthood and revelation there's very little left.

Thank you. Without divulging too much information, what do you mean that parting the veil is no longer taught? Can you answer generally without saying too much?

[JLHPROF]

They've already hacked and slashed the temple so much that Isaiah 24:5 has been fulfilled.
What difference would any more changes make?

How have they?

What hasn't been changed?

Covenants - reworded and meaning changed
Priesthood robes - changed (items removed)
Garments - changed (items removed)
Penalties - removed making signs and tokens incomplete
Key words - changed
Parting the veil - no longer taught
Temple prayer - no longer permitted for personal use
Tokens (priesthood) - no longer received individually, now like someone else's baptism or ordination applying to you.

To be clear, I do believe the theatrical portion can change - ie the presentation. Reading the history shows that clearly.
But of the elements related to priesthood and revelation there's very little left.

Thank you. Without divulging too much information, what do you mean that parting the veil is no longer taught? Can you answer generally without saying too much?

It is a reference both to temple prayer and to https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... religions/.

[tdj]

Wait? Have there been changed to the temple ordinances since covid? I wasn't aware of that. I only know f the changes made since right before Covid.

[Mamabear]

Wait? Have there been changed to the temple ordinances since covid? I wasn't aware of that. I only know f the changes made since right before Covid.

Yes there have been changes unfortunately.

[tdj]

Wait? Have there been changed to the temple ordinances since covid? I wasn't aware of that. I only know f the changes made since right before Covid.

Yes there have been changes unfortunately.

I didn't think it could be shortened anymore without gutting some of the meat and potatoes out of it.

[tdj]

Wait? Have there been changed to the temple ordinances since covid? I wasn't aware of that. I only know f the changes made since right before Covid.

Yes there have been changes unfortunately.

I didn't think it could be shortened anymore without gutting some of the meat and potatoes out of it.

Isn't that sad? Folks have no issue with sitting over two hours to watch a new marvel comic movie, but can't stomach to sit in the temple, so they have to shorten it

[GeeR]

Just read Isaiah chapter 24 today. Verse 5 stuck out like a sore thumb because of what was said in conference yesterday. I’m curious to get your thoughts. I haven’t been to the temple since January 2020 so I have not witnessed the changes.
Listening to Russell Nelson yesterday almost gave me a panic attack because I thought he was going change something major about the temple by the way he spoke. But he didn’t. I think maybe a future change will come and I really hope I’m wrong.

Concerning Isiah 24:5, Joseph Fielding Smith said: “It is the L.D. Saints who have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broke the everlasting covenant.” (Deseret News, Church Section, Oct. 17, 1936) Latter-day Saints” transgressed the law” of consecration established in D&C 42 known as “The Law” then they “changed the ordinance” of monogamy--the one wife doctrine making “one flesh” also mentioned in D&C 42 and 49, to polygamy and polyandry. The result for violating these two primary commandments was they “broke the everlasting [priesthood] covenant”, you know the one mentioned in D&C 121:37 where it says: “Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man [or church].”

Welcome to the counterfeit Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! The counterfeit Corporate church will not connect the dots for you on this important scripture, you have to do it yourself. The current changes are nothing compared to the changes made at the beginning of the restoration. That is why the Lord told the saints to lay low and we’ll try this again “after a little season” “of chastisement and learning.” The “chastisement” for the saints disobedience was their persecution and withdrawal of the priesthood, so the recent changes are really a non-issue if the church is indeed counterfeit and without priesthood authority, right?

[Pazooka]

24:5 could be so much broader than the ordinances administered by the Priesthood.

Some translations have it as: “violated the statutes”; “twisted God’s instructions”; “overstepped the decrees”; “changed the commandment” etc.

One commandment we changed, for example, was the command to literally gather in preparation for the 2nd Coming.

But the following etymology gives some enhanced meaning (for me) concerning the OMAS who will put things back “in order”

[Luke]

Just read Isaiah chapter 24 today. Verse 5 stuck out like a sore thumb because of what was said in conference yesterday. I’m curious to get your thoughts. I haven’t been to the temple since January 2020 so I have not witnessed the changes.
Listening to Russell Nelson yesterday almost gave me a panic attack because I thought he was going change something major about the temple by the way he spoke. But he didn’t. I think maybe a future change will come and I really hope I’m wrong.

Concerning Isiah 24:5, Joseph Fielding Smith said: “It is the L.D. Saints who have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broke the everlasting covenant.” (Deseret News, Church Section, Oct. 17, 1936) Latter-day Saints” transgressed the law” of consecration established in D&C 42 known as “The Law” then they “changed the ordinance” of monogamy--the one wife doctrine making “one flesh” also mentioned in D&C 42 and 49, to polygamy and polyandry. The result for violating these two primary commandments was they “broke the everlasting [priesthood] covenant”, you know the one mentioned in D&C 121:37 where it says: “Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man [or church].”

Welcome to the counterfeit Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! The counterfeit Corporate church will not connect the dots for you on this important scripture, you have to do it yourself. The current changes are nothing compared to the changes made at the beginning of the restoration. That is why the Lord told the saints to lay low and we’ll try this again “after a little season” “of chastisement and learning.” The “chastisement” for the saints disobedience was their persecution and withdrawal of the priesthood, so the recent changes are really a non-issue if the church is indeed counterfeit and without priesthood authority, right?

It was actually when the Church abandoned Celestial Plural Marriage that they went off track.

[Subcomandante]

Just read Isaiah chapter 24 today. Verse 5 stuck out like a sore thumb because of what was said in conference yesterday. I’m curious to get your thoughts. I haven’t been to the temple since January 2020 so I have not witnessed the changes.
Listening to Russell Nelson yesterday almost gave me a panic attack because I thought he was going change something major about the temple by the way he spoke. But he didn’t. I think maybe a future change will come and I really hope I’m wrong.

I think this refers to many people, not just one group.

The Jews had changed their covenants to the point where they ended up losing not one but two temples. And couldn't recognize Moshiach when He was with them in the flesh.

The early Christians likewise made some changes to the covenants of baptism and the Sacrament that rendered them useless to the Lord.

The Muslims changed the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to Mecca.

Some Latter-day Saints (remove the first "S") would have the Church change its doctrine of the family to allow homosexual couples to be sealed in the temple, something that would be a total aberration to Scripture.

[dreamtheater76]

Thought of a few things. I haven't been a Temple worker for a couple of years so we are probably on the same page in that department.
This already may have happened in the early Christian church centuries ago. Many ordinances were changed. Many truths lost. I don't want to go to dark in detail. Yes it got really bad in less than a handful of centuries in some places. Can't say this is it but I don't know how much worse it could possibly get.
One thing that really caught my attention is in the footnotes of this very subject it talks about the everlasting covenant of marriage as well as a couple other things. Homosexual marriage would definitely be a destruction and perversion of marriage ordinances. Not saying it would happen in the Temple. I remember one of security guards at Manti let offshoot members in secretly so there is a possibility. We have seen countless churches fully accepting this perversion. The Community of Christ does homosexual temple ordinances now.

[Baurak Ale]

Just read Isaiah chapter 24 today. Verse 5 stuck out like a sore thumb because of what was said in conference yesterday. I’m curious to get your thoughts. I haven’t been to the temple since January 2020 so I have not witnessed the changes.
Listening to Russell Nelson yesterday almost gave me a panic attack because I thought he was going change something major about the temple by the way he spoke. But he didn’t. I think maybe a future change will come and I really hope I’m wrong.

Concerning Isiah 24:5, Joseph Fielding Smith said: “It is the L.D. Saints who have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broke the everlasting covenant.” (Deseret News, Church Section, Oct. 17, 1936) Latter-day Saints” transgressed the law” of consecration established in D&C 42 known as “The Law” then they “changed the ordinance” of monogamy--the one wife doctrine making “one flesh” also mentioned in D&C 42 and 49, to polygamy and polyandry. The result for violating these two primary commandments was they “broke the everlasting [priesthood] covenant”, you know the one mentioned in D&C 121:37 where it says: “Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man [or church].”

Welcome to the counterfeit Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! The counterfeit Corporate church will not connect the dots for you on this important scripture, you have to do it yourself. The current changes are nothing compared to the changes made at the beginning of the restoration. That is why the Lord told the saints to lay low and we’ll try this again “after a little season” “of chastisement and learning.” The “chastisement” for the saints disobedience was their persecution and withdrawal of the priesthood, so the recent changes are really a non-issue if the church is indeed counterfeit and without priesthood authority, right?

It was actually when the Church abandoned Celestial Plural Marriage that they went off track.

This is true.

(Those interested in a new perspective on the argument that Joseph did in fact teach polygamy could read here: https://theology.science.blog/2020/12/2 ... e-talents/.)

[GeeR]

Just read Isaiah chapter 24 today. Verse 5 stuck out like a sore thumb because of what was said in conference yesterday. I’m curious to get your thoughts. I haven’t been to the temple since January 2020 so I have not witnessed the changes.
Listening to Russell Nelson yesterday almost gave me a panic attack because I thought he was going change something major about the temple by the way he spoke. But he didn’t. I think maybe a future change will come and I really hope I’m wrong.

Concerning Isiah 24:5, Joseph Fielding Smith said: “It is the L.D. Saints who have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broke the everlasting covenant.” (Deseret News, Church Section, Oct. 17, 1936) Latter-day Saints” transgressed the law” of consecration established in D&C 42 known as “The Law” then they “changed the ordinance” of monogamy--the one wife doctrine making “one flesh” also mentioned in D&C 42 and 49, to polygamy and polyandry. The result for violating these two primary commandments was they “broke the everlasting [priesthood] covenant”, you know the one mentioned in D&C 121:37 where it says: “Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man [or church].”

Welcome to the counterfeit Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! The counterfeit Corporate church will not connect the dots for you on this important scripture, you have to do it yourself. The current changes are nothing compared to the changes made at the beginning of the restoration. That is why the Lord told the saints to lay low and we’ll try this again “after a little season” “of chastisement and learning.” The “chastisement” for the saints disobedience was their persecution and withdrawal of the priesthood, so the recent changes are really a non-issue if the church is indeed counterfeit and without priesthood authority, right?

It was actually when the Church abandoned Celestial Plural Marriage that they went off track.

This is true.

(Those interested in a new perspective on the argument that Joseph did in fact teach polygamy could read here: https://theology.science.blog/2020/12/2 ... e-talents/.)

Oh I admit he did teach it and even married as many as 40 wives, but before his martyrdom he changed his mind and did a 180 turn-about.

The Church hides its unsavory history! For instance Gordon B. Hinckley told a national viewing audience on Live with Larry King (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HogSGPZnrNU) that polygamy was “not doctrinal” a.k.a. adulterous, because it wasn’t a revelation. Then after the interview with King, Hinckley omitted from all Sunday School, Priesthood and Relief Society and seminary curriculum, or even telling the members in General Conference that polygamy is "not doctrinal" to this day. Hinckley never pursued or carried out this new revelation of his by denouncing D&C 132 in General Conference nor in Ensign articles. And now that we know that polygamy is “not doctrinal” the doctrine that “justifies” polygamy is still in the Doctrine & Covenants as section 132 and voted on by the members of the church as canonized scripture. What's wrong with this picture? Hinckley failed to tell us members that polygamy is “not doctrinal” because the marriage covenant was “changed” from monogamy to polygamy as predicted in Isaiah 24:5.

[Baurak Ale]

Oh I admit he did teach it and even married as many as 40 wives, but before his martyrdom he changed his mind and did a 180 turn-about.

...And now that we know that polygamy is “not doctrinal”...

We? I don't know that.

You think Hinckley had a revelation that he shared with Larry King but not the church? That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

Unfortunately, you're right that there's an unsavory history in the church, and that interview is part of it. That particular lesson in the history book taught me that it is not hard to say easy things and have friendship with the world.

Also, I have not heard it said before that Joseph entered into plural marriage, took 40 wives, and then changed his mind and cast them all off. I am very interested in what historical evidence you use to justify his about face; it's easy to say he never did it based on his veiled public comments, and it is very easy to say that he did do it based on his unveiled private comments. Taking a blend between the two is impossible based on my knowledge of his total statements, public or private.

[GeeR]

Oh I admit he did teach it and even married as many as 40 wives, but before his martyrdom he changed his mind and did a 180 turn-about.

...And now that we know that polygamy is “not doctrinal”...

We? I don't know that.

You think Hinckley had a revelation that he shared with Larry King but not the church? That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

Unfortunately, you're right that there's an unsavory history in the church, and that interview is part of it. That particular lesson in the history book taught me that it is not hard to say easy things and have friendship with the world.

Also, I have not heard it said before that Joseph entered into plural marriage, took 40 wives, and then changed his mind and cast them all off. I am very interested in what historical evidence you use to justify his about face; it's easy to say he never did it based on his veiled public comments, and it is very easy to say that he did do it based on his unveiled private comments. Taking a blend between the two is impossible based on my knowledge of his total statements, public or private.

“Absurd”? Why would you say it’s absurd, when I gave proof that Hinckley said it on the Larry King show with video to prove it? Yet Hinckley never said a peek to the members about polygamy being “not doctrinal? Why are you questioning the proof I provided you?

He also said on the Larry King show when questioned about before God became God that he was a mortal man on an earth like this one. Well Hinckley hedged on the question saying in effect “I don’t know that we teach it.” A week after the interview I was teaching it to our High Priest Group and the quote by President Snow was in it that said: “As man now is God once was and as God is man may become.” But even this quote is taken from the false doctrine in the King Follett sermon because the Book of Mormon says and I paraphrase: “God is everlasting to everlasting with no beginning and without end.” So Hinckley outright lied!

William Marks was considered by most to be one of the most honest men of personal integrity in Nauvoo. Apparently the Lord was impressed by Marks. He made Marks the President of the Church in Far West and Nauvoo. Here is the testimony that Marks actually published in 1853 in the Zions Harbinger and Baneemy’s Organ:.

“When the doctrine of polygamy was introduced into the church as a principle of exaltation, I took a decided stand against it; which stand rendered me quite unpopular with many of the leading ones of the church…
Joseph, however, became convinced before his death that he had done wrong; for about three weeks before his death, I met him one morning in the street, and he said to me, “Brother Marks… We are a ruined people.” I asked, how so? He said: “This doctrine of polygamy, or Spiritual-wife system, that has been taught and practiced among us, will prove our destruction and overthrow.
I have been deceived,” said he, “in reference to its practice; it is wrong; it is a curse to mankind, and we shall have to leave the United States soon, unless it can be put down and its practice stopped in the church.
Now,’ said he,’ Brother Marks, you have not received this doctrine, and how glad I am. I want you to go into the high council and I will have charges preferred against all who practice this doctrine, and I want you to try them by the laws of the church, and cut them off, if they will not repent and cease the practice of this doctrine.”

[SPIRIT]

Isaiah 24
4 The earth shall pine away, the world miserably perish; the elite of the earth shall be made wretched.
5 The earth lies polluted under its inhabitants: they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances,
set at nought the ancient covenant.
6 The curse devours the earth, for those who dwell on it have incurred guilt; because of it the population of the earth shall be diminished and little of mankind remain.

The destruction of the “earth” and the “world” parallels that of Greater Babylon, which also consists of the “earth” and the “world”
(Isaiah 13:5, 9, 11, 13; 14:16-17, 21, Isaiah 13:5, 9, 11, 13; 14:16-17, 21, 26; 16:4; 23:9; 16:4; 23:9).
The decimation of “mankind” continues that theme (Isaiah 13:12; 33:8).
Causing these curses is the wickedness of Jehovah’s people, who have altered his “ordinances” or “ritual” (hoq)
and perverted his “laws” or “doctrine” (torot), thereby violating Jehovah’s covenant and rendering it void.
Jehovah’s servant, who personifies Jehovah’s covenant (Isaiah 42:6; 49:8), they likewise set at nought (Isaiah 49:7; 50:5-11; 52:14).

[SPIRIT]

Isaiah 24
4 The earth shall pine away, the world miserably perish; the elite of the earth shall be made wretched.
5 The earth lies polluted under its inhabitants: they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances,
set at nought the ancient covenant.
6 The curse devours the earth, for those who dwell on it have incurred guilt; because of it the population of the earth shall be diminished and little of mankind remain.

The destruction of the “earth” and the “world” parallels that of Greater Babylon, which also consists of the “earth” and the “world”
(Isaiah 13:5, 9, 11, 13; 14:16-17, 21, Isaiah 13:5, 9, 11, 13; 14:16-17, 21, 26; 16:4; 23:9; 16:4; 23:9).
The decimation of “mankind” continues that theme (Isaiah 13:12; 33:8).
Causing these curses is the wickedness of Jehovah’s people, who have altered his “ordinances” or “ritual” (hoq)
and perverted his “laws” or “doctrine” (torot), thereby violating Jehovah’s covenant and rendering it void.
Jehovah’s servant, who personifies Jehovah’s covenant (Isaiah 42:6; 49:8), they likewise set at nought (Isaiah 49:7; 50:5-11; 52:14).

Apostle Joseph Fielding Smith declared that;
“It is the L. D. Saints who have transgressed the laws, change the ordinance, broke the everlasting covenant.”
Joseph Fielding Smith (Deseret News, Church Section, Oct. 17, 1936)

[SPIRIT]

Just read Isaiah chapter 24 today. Verse 5 stuck out like a sore thumb because of what was said in conference yesterday. I’m curious to get your thoughts. I haven’t been to the temple since January 2020 so I have not witnessed the changes.
Listening to Russell Nelson yesterday almost gave me a panic attack because I thought he was going change something major about the temple by the way he spoke. But he didn’t. I think maybe a future change will come and I really hope I’m wrong.

I think this refers to many people, not just one group.

The Jews had changed their covenants to the point where they ended up losing not one but two temples. And couldn't recognize Moshiach when He was with them in the flesh.

The early Christians likewise made some changes to the covenants of baptism and the Sacrament that rendered them useless to the Lord.

The Muslims changed the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to Mecca.

Some Latter-day Saints (remove the first "S") would have the Church change its doctrine of the family to allow homosexual couples to be sealed in the temple, something that would be a total aberration to Scripture.

wrong again - as usual.