Statement that could be seen as gaslighting

[JSmith]

I was largely unable to watch conference over the weekend.

However I did catch elements of Elder Oaks is talk and some others.

On the conference thread there were references to comments that sounded both like gaslighting and like shaming in one way or another

If possible, could you all chip in on what some of those comments were. I am trying to keep track of them

[keeprunning]

It's much more accurate to watch yourself so you can take it in context and the spirit intended.

[JSmith]

It's much more accurate to watch yourself so you can take it in context and the spirit intended.

You do things your way, I’ll do things mine.

[Hosh]

It's much more accurate to watch yourself so you can take it in context and the spirit intended.

I agree. Watching it in person was much worse BECAUSE of the context and way it was intended.

[Thinker]

Good idea, especially considering times in which bad is made to appear good & vice versa. God is the only one we should worship. If someone speaks truth, then questioning & pondering won’t shake it. If someone doesn’t speak truth, it ought to be discovered so as not to be misled.

Just to clarify what gaslighting is:



There were multiple references covid 19/“pandemic” & to being “vaccinated,” social distancing etc., when we now know there was NO PANDEMIC (studies have found 80-99% of supposed covid deaths were actually due to other factors. And Covid shots are not vaccines since people have gotten & spread Covid & these experimental jabs have injured & killed many! Also, social distancing is unnecessarily harmful. Some speakers have suggested these measures as if unquestionable fact & anyone who questions this as “contentious.” This is blaming (gaslighting) people being lied to as if THEY have the problem, rather than the liars or lies being problematic.

[Godislove]

https://www.standard.net/lifestyle/fait ... isharmony/

Elder Renlund:
He cited mixed results of the world’s reaction to the coronavirus, hailing the work of medical personnel, teachers, caregivers and others and the development of
safe and effective vaccines. “Many people have displayed generosity and kindness,” Renlund said, but vulnerable people have suffered due to underlying inequalities.

Said Renlund, “When we contend with each other in anger, Satan laughs and the God of heaven weeps.” He said the work of the church is compromised when contention or enmity exists among members, and contention “is spiritually unhealthy for us as individuals. We are robbed of peace, joy and rest, and our ability to feel the Spirit is compromised.”

“Yet, in some instances, the spiritual stress test has shown tendencies toward contention and divisiveness,” he said. “This suggests that we have work to do, to change our hearts, and to become unified as the Savior’s true disciples. This is not a new challenge, but it is a critical one.”

I do feel that he had some very good things to say in his talk but I feel like when they continue to make political statements regarding the vaccine it just adds fuel to the fire and continues to add pressure to members who remain unvaccinated and helps perpetuate the divide.

[Lizzy60]

https://www.standard.net/lifestyle/fait ... isharmony/

Elder Renlund:
He cited mixed results of the world’s reaction to the coronavirus, hailing the work of medical personnel, teachers, caregivers and others and the development of
safe and effective vaccines. “Many people have displayed generosity and kindness,” Renlund said, but vulnerable people have suffered due to underlying inequalities.

Said Renlund, “When we contend with each other in anger, Satan laughs and the God of heaven weeps.” He said the work of the church is compromised when contention or enmity exists among members, and contention “is spiritually unhealthy for us as individuals. We are robbed of peace, joy and rest, and our ability to feel the Spirit is compromised.”

“Yet, in some instances, the spiritual stress test has shown tendencies toward contention and divisiveness,” he said. “This suggests that we have work to do, to change our hearts, and to become unified as the Savior’s true disciples. This is not a new challenge, but it is a critical one.”

I do feel that he had some very good things to say in his talk but I feel like when they continue to make political statements regarding the vaccine it just adds fuel to the fire and continues to add pressure to members who remain unvaccinated and helps perpetuate the divide.

He supplied more ammunition to the pro-vax members who want non-vaxxed banned from meetings and temples and even hospitals. I wish he would read the comments online so he could know the hate that is shown by the FTP Mormons against those who choose their own medical decisions.

[TrueFaith]

We're living in two distinct universes. These church leaders appeared to have been completely, 100% oblivious to the catastrophe going on right now in the world.

Yeah, that's gaslighting. It doesn't have to be verbal like the illustration in the post above, it can simply be displayed as a general refusal to acknowledge abuse. This conference felt abusive to me. I felt sick through almost every talk.

These cannot be prophets. They aren't acting like it at all. What is the opposite of warning, "lulling? That's what they did.

Wearing masks and talking about faith, get outta here.

[Lizzy60]

Oaks laid on the shame and the gaslighting while encouraging members to attend their meetings in person. He said that if your church meetings have failed you, you have failed. He also said that worshipping on one’s own will result in loss of Priesthood. Who made him God?

[TrueFaith]

Oaks laid on the shame and the gaslighting while encouraging members to attend their meetings in person. He said that if your church meetings have failed you, you have failed. He also said that worshipping on one’s own will result in loss of Priesthood. Who made him God?

Even though THEY shut them down for months. What the actual F.

Isn't that like talking endlessly about the temple, where you can barely even get in the door because of the scheduling limitations?

Clown church.

[diligently seeking]

https://www.standard.net/lifestyle/fait ... isharmony/

Elder Renlund:
He cited mixed results of the world’s reaction to the coronavirus, hailing the work of medical personnel, teachers, caregivers and others and the development of
safe and effective vaccines. “Many people have displayed generosity and kindness,” Renlund said, but vulnerable people have suffered due to underlying inequalities.

Said Renlund, “When we contend with each other in anger, Satan laughs and the God of heaven weeps.” He said the work of the church is compromised when contention or enmity exists among members, and contention “is spiritually unhealthy for us as individuals. We are robbed of peace, joy and rest, and our ability to feel the Spirit is compromised.”

“Yet, in some instances, the spiritual stress test has shown tendencies toward contention and divisiveness,” he said. “This suggests that we have work to do, to change our hearts, and to become unified as the Savior’s true disciples. This is not a new challenge, but it is a critical one.”

I do feel that he had some very good things to say in his talk but I feel like when they continue to make political statements regarding the vaccine it just adds fuel to the fire and continues to add pressure to members who remain unvaccinated and helps perpetuate the divide.

I acknowledge I’m not familiar with his demeanor of delivery with his conference talks. That said, I believe I discerned a more wound tight and even a frustrated etc heart mind and countenance through out much of his delivery. Maybe this mood is his normal delivery and I was influenced negatively by it because of his initial promotion of a troubling vaccination

[SPIRIT]

It's much more accurate to watch yourself so you can take it in context and the spirit intended.

"spirit" ?
more like lack of

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63142&p=1188496&hil ... n#p1188496

[Hiphopopotamus]

Oaks laid on the shame and the gaslighting while encouraging members to attend their meetings in person. He said that if your church meetings have failed you, you have failed. He also said that worshipping on one’s own will result in loss of Priesthood. Who made him God?

"If your church meetings have failed you, you have failed."

That totally sounds like something Christ would say......

[h_p]

Even though THEY shut them down for months. What the actual F.

Isn't that like talking endlessly about the temple, where you can barely even get in the door because of the scheduling limitations?

Clown church.

Here in Texas, they called for a special fast to re-open the temples a few months ago. Which they had complete power to do themselves without any permission from anyone. The entire state was wide open, no restrictions anywhere. We even have an explicit state-wide ban against restricting religious activities. But still, they had to pretend like we needed to petition God for a miracle or something.

[Pazooka]

I had dinner with a temple sealer tonight who wonders how we’re supposed to be spending more time in the temple when the waiting list is a couple of months out. He wonders what RMN is thinking. He also said people are scheduling sealing sessions and massively not showing up. Even he is frustrated.

And then there’s my uncle who was serving as an ordinance worker but it was so boring because of the controlled decrease in volume that he flat-out quit.

[Rwp]

https://www.standard.net/lifestyle/fait ... isharmony/

Elder Renlund:
He cited mixed results of the world’s reaction to the coronavirus, hailing the work of medical personnel, teachers, caregivers and others and the development of
safe and effective vaccines. “Many people have displayed generosity and kindness,” Renlund said, but vulnerable people have suffered due to underlying inequalities.

Said Renlund, “When we contend with each other in anger, Satan laughs and the God of heaven weeps.” He said the work of the church is compromised when contention or enmity exists among members, and contention “is spiritually unhealthy for us as individuals. We are robbed of peace, joy and rest, and our ability to feel the Spirit is compromised.”

“Yet, in some instances, the spiritual stress test has shown tendencies toward contention and divisiveness,” he said. “This suggests that we have work to do, to change our hearts, and to become unified as the Savior’s true disciples. This is not a new challenge, but it is a critical one.”

I do feel that he had some very good things to say in his talk but I feel like when they continue to make political statements regarding the vaccine it just adds fuel to the fire and continues to add pressure to members who remain unvaccinated and helps perpetuate the divide.

I acknowledge I’m not familiar with his demeanor of delivery with his conference talks. That said, I believe I discerned a more wound tight and even a frustrated etc heart mind and countenance through out much of his delivery. Maybe this mood is his normal delivery and I was influenced negatively by it because of his initial promotion of a troubling vaccination

I have not been able to shake the feeling since he was made an apostle that something is deeply off with Elder Renland. Just my personal feelings that I’ve tried many times to set aside but can’t seem to shake.

[Subcomandante]

I was largely unable to watch conference over the weekend.

However I did catch elements of Elder Oaks is talk and some others.

On the conference thread there were references to comments that sounded both like gaslighting and like shaming in one way or another

If possible, could you all chip in on what some of those comments were. I am trying to keep track of them

The clearest gaslight (which I critiqued by the way) was Elder Oaks' idea that if we go to Church and we don't get anything out of it, then it is our fault and our failure. He did quote President Kimball on that, but this idea is erroneous.

[Chip]

The drunkards of Ephraim are stumbling and erring in judgment. They are accelerating towards their plunge into calamity which will be vexatious to even hear about. Isaiah 28 is playing out.

[largerthanlife2]

I was largely unable to watch conference over the weekend.

However I did catch elements of Elder Oaks is talk and some others.

On the conference thread there were references to comments that sounded both like gaslighting and like shaming in one way or another

If possible, could you all chip in on what some of those comments were. I am trying to keep track of them

The clearest gaslight (which I critiqued by the way) was Elder Oaks' idea that if we go to Church and we don't get anything out of it, then it is our fault and our failure. He did quote President Kimball on that, but this idea is erroneous.

The meetings are so boring now that every talk and lesson is a rehash of a general conference talk.

[Chip]

I was largely unable to watch conference over the weekend.

However I did catch elements of Elder Oaks is talk and some others.

On the conference thread there were references to comments that sounded both like gaslighting and like shaming in one way or another

If possible, could you all chip in on what some of those comments were. I am trying to keep track of them

The clearest gaslight (which I critiqued by the way) was Elder Oaks' idea that if we go to Church and we don't get anything out of it, then it is our fault and our failure. He did quote President Kimball on that, but this idea is erroneous.

The meetings are so boring now that every talk and lesson is a rehash of a general conference talk.

All the thinking has been done. It's like observing the heat death of the universe.

[JSmith]

I was largely unable to watch conference over the weekend.

However I did catch elements of Elder Oaks is talk and some others.

On the conference thread there were references to comments that sounded both like gaslighting and like shaming in one way or another

If possible, could you all chip in on what some of those comments were. I am trying to keep track of them

The clearest gaslight (which I critiqued by the way) was Elder Oaks' idea that if we go to Church and we don't get anything out of it, then it is our fault and our failure. He did quote President Kimball on that, but this idea is erroneous.

The meetings are so boring now that every talk and lesson is a rehash of a general conference talk.

They are boring because they are sterilized. We are told to find information from the best books, and to learn all truth, but we can only speak about what is approved to speak about in church. If we are moved by the spirit to go to another source, it Has to be correlated or else you can’t use it.

This stifles the process of teaching, it makes everything and even passionless.

[Chip]

I was largely unable to watch conference over the weekend.

However I did catch elements of Elder Oaks is talk and some others.

On the conference thread there were references to comments that sounded both like gaslighting and like shaming in one way or another

If possible, could you all chip in on what some of those comments were. I am trying to keep track of them

The clearest gaslight (which I critiqued by the way) was Elder Oaks' idea that if we go to Church and we don't get anything out of it, then it is our fault and our failure. He did quote President Kimball on that, but this idea is erroneous.

The meetings are so boring now that every talk and lesson is a rehash of a general conference talk.

They are boring because they are sterilized. We are told to find information from the best books, and to learn all truth, but we can only speak about what is approved to speak about in church. If we are moved by the spirit to go to another source, it Has to be correlated or else you can’t use it.

This stifles the process of teaching, it makes everything and even passionless.

Exactly! The price of their infallibility is an ever-narrowing scope of permissible discussion. And nowadays, they carry water for the secret combination that we are commanded to awaken to. I don't think there's much we members can do about it, other than to find another home, if we are to have one. Following them, as they follow the NWO, has become dangerous.

[ShockHouse]

I had dinner with a temple sealer tonight who wonders how we’re supposed to be spending more time in the temple when the waiting list is a couple of months out. He wonders what RMN is thinking. He also said people are scheduling sealing sessions and massively not showing up. Even he is frustrated.

And then there’s my uncle who was serving as an ordinance worker but it was so boring because of the controlled decrease in volume that he flat-out quit.

I'm not sure where you live, but in Utah it is not that hard to go to the temple right now. I live in the Lehi area and can easily schedule an appointment for this week to any of the temples around me (Draper, Timp, Jordan, Oquirrh, etc...). That's for endowments, initiatory, etc... Source: The appointments I scheduled yesterday for this week.

If any one is trying to schedule one and comes across this, the Jordan River is always the easiest to schedule compared to the others. The others fill in a lot faster.

[Lizzy60]

I had dinner with a temple sealer tonight who wonders how we’re supposed to be spending more time in the temple when the waiting list is a couple of months out. He wonders what RMN is thinking. He also said people are scheduling sealing sessions and massively not showing up. Even he is frustrated.

And then there’s my uncle who was serving as an ordinance worker but it was so boring because of the controlled decrease in volume that he flat-out quit.

I'm not sure where you live, but in Utah it is not that hard to go to the temple right now. I live in the Lehi area and can easily schedule an appointment for this week to any of the temples around me (Draper, Timp, Jordan, Oquirrh, etc...). That's for endowments, initiatory, etc... Source: The appointments I scheduled yesterday for this week.

If any one is trying to schedule one and comes across this, the Jordan River is always the easiest to schedule compared to the others. The others fill in a lot faster.

Your list of temples close to you just further illustrates the huge divide between the Mormon corridor experience in the Church and the rest of the world. If my assigned temple (an hour away) is closed or the appointments are filled, I can choose from Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Houston or Lubbock. Check those out on your google map.

[Subcomandante]

I had dinner with a temple sealer tonight who wonders how we’re supposed to be spending more time in the temple when the waiting list is a couple of months out. He wonders what RMN is thinking. He also said people are scheduling sealing sessions and massively not showing up. Even he is frustrated.

And then there’s my uncle who was serving as an ordinance worker but it was so boring because of the controlled decrease in volume that he flat-out quit.

I'm not sure where you live, but in Utah it is not that hard to go to the temple right now. I live in the Lehi area and can easily schedule an appointment for this week to any of the temples around me (Draper, Timp, Jordan, Oquirrh, etc...). That's for endowments, initiatory, etc... Source: The appointments I scheduled yesterday for this week.

If any one is trying to schedule one and comes across this, the Jordan River is always the easiest to schedule compared to the others. The others fill in a lot faster.

Your list of temples close to you just further illustrates the huge divide between the Mormon corridor experience in the Church and the rest of the world. If my assigned temple (an hour away) is closed or the appointments are filled, I can choose from Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Houston or Lubbock. Check those out on your google map.

Yep you have temples within 5 miles of each other in the Mormon corridor. For the temple yesterday announced in Culiacán Mexico, they needed 12 hours to travel one way to Hermosillo or the same amount of time to travel to Guadalajara.

For those in Tijuana that can't cross the border to San Diego, only 30 minutes away once you clear the border, the nearest temple was 12 hours away, also to Hermosillo.

Don't get me started with a place like Yerevan Armenia or Ulan Batoor Mongolia.