Real life experiences with the vaccine

[TheDuke]

But claiming to be a prophet, and dispensing his opinions on it all while claiming authority from God, not even implying anyone has a choice in the matter and on top of it all being 100% completely wrong is unacceptable to me. There were plenty of people who saw things for what they really were. He should have been one of them, but he was not.

I agree that this appears to show that the Lord isn't warning these leaders on ways to save the flock. I also find that scary. I accept your statements there. I guess in you statement above, that I haven't ever seen RMN say that we don't have a choice. He, in fact, said we should pray, see Dr and make a choice. I will say his minions (Renlund and Eyring for sure) pushed more and put Dr-prophet praise on RMN. And RMN said he felt is was good. But, they never pushed or forced anyone. Now, that does leave a great question about missionaries where they mandated. But, I'd say that I wouldn't go or encourage my sons given those constraints. So, maybe that is leaving little choice. but, I don't think missionary work during covid lockdowns was good for anyone, not missionaries, not investigators, not doing facebook teaching, etc... It was a bad time in general, likely the Lord would rather they stay home than get the jab or be a missionary..... but it is an individuals choice to make, not mine anyway.

[nightlight]

But claiming to be a prophet, and dispensing his opinions on it all while claiming authority from God, not even implying anyone has a choice in the matter and on top of it all being 100% completely wrong is unacceptable to me. There were plenty of people who saw things for what they really were. He should have been one of them, but he was not.

But, they never pushed or forced anyone.

?

"To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated. Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective.

We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders. Please know of our sincere love and great concern for all of God’s children.

The First Presidency

Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

[4Joshua8]

But claiming to be a prophet, and dispensing his opinions on it all while claiming authority from God, not even implying anyone has a choice in the matter and on top of it all being 100% completely wrong is unacceptable to me. There were plenty of people who saw things for what they really were. He should have been one of them, but he was not.

But, they never pushed or forced anyone.

?

"To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated. Available vaccines have proven to be both safe and effective.

We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders. Please know of our sincere love and great concern for all of God’s children.

The First Presidency

Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
Henry B. Eyring

I'd say that's quite the strong push coming from a man who can never lead anyone astray...

[Reluctant Watchman]

But claiming to be a prophet, and dispensing his opinions on it all while claiming authority from God, not even implying anyone has a choice in the matter and on top of it all being 100% completely wrong is unacceptable to me. There were plenty of people who saw things for what they really were. He should have been one of them, but he was not.

I agree that this appears to show that the Lord isn't warning these leaders on ways to save the flock. I also find that scary. I accept your statements there. I guess in you statement above, that I haven't ever seen RMN say that we don't have a choice. He, in fact, said we should pray, see Dr and make a choice. I will say his minions (Renlund and Eyring for sure) pushed more and put Dr-prophet praise on RMN. And RMN said he felt is was good. But, they never pushed or forced anyone. Now, that does leave a great question about missionaries where they mandated. But, I'd say that I wouldn't go or encourage my sons given those constraints. So, maybe that is leaving little choice. but, I don't think missionary work during covid lockdowns was good for anyone, not missionaries, not investigators, not doing facebook teaching, etc... It was a bad time in general, likely the Lord would rather they stay home than get the jab or be a missionary..... but it is an individuals choice to make, not mine anyway.

He also said that he can never lead you astray and that you can trust him completely. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[TheDuke]

Nightlight: so you see the word "urge" as same as "must" or a demand? Again, I don't. I see no inspiration at all. I see Dr's being arrogant and trusted their fellow Drs. (who let them down. BTW I know several Dr's that went through this, formerly fully trusting of their peers at that time, now finally wondering). I see people looking to keep things as open as possible. Perhaps gullible. Surely not getting direct revelation in their weekly Thursday meeting with the Lord. But, not forcing and not pushing or mandating. Unless like I said, a missionary, or something. Stupid, naive, but not evil intent.

AND BTW lead you astray means lead you away from god, not in any temporal things. So, tired of hearing the lead you astray is even suggesting vax. and they never said they wouldn't lead you astray, that was other previous leaders that we through under the bus already anyway, and perhaps Renlund with his "when RMN speaks" opinion. but, none of this is other they hyperbole and smack. Show me some written doctrine here. I can show you opposing statements to your statement. BTW quoting Wendy doesn't count as doctrine.

[Reluctant Watchman]

AND BTW lead you astray means lead you away from god, not in any temporal things.

Show me in scripture where it makes the delineation between temporal and spiritual. You won't find it. The Lord never put stipulations on this. This is a whorish doctrine in the church. And, btw, the church acknowledges that the Savior taught that ALL men, even prophets specifically, can lead you astray.

[Lizzy60]

If any of the 15 make a public statement, in a format that many church members have access to the statement, and if that statement is NOT corrected by someone else in the Q15, preferably the First Presidency, then we can be sure that they ALL agree. We have been told many times that they do not move without total agreement among the 15.

If Nelson had wanted to ask the members to consider the vaxx so temples could open sooner and missionary work could move ahead, he could have put out a video or letter saying that. Instead they issue it on church letterhead, signed by the entire FP, emailed to every member email in their system, and as we found out later, it was a decision made by all 15 in a meeting.

People have been released from callings for being vocal about the dangers of the vaxx, and the dangers of this particular letter. Missionaries have been sent home.

And people are dying, from the clotshot.

[TheDuke]

Not true Lizzy. You cannot say that if FP says something that all 15 agree. And, it makes me laugh that I just said a few minutes ago not to quote Wendy........... she is basically nobody. I see the leaders (RMN) putting the spin that we all agree, blah, blah.... hype. My former employer, the Dems, NFL, everyone makes such a claim. It usually means only that they squelched any public opposition. but, come one quoting Wendy...............................................

Reluctant: you appear to not even be able to read my short response? I never said the words spiritual and temporal. I said the definition of leading astray is leading away from a belief in god. I also agreed that never have prophets been infallible. Not sure what your complaining about. So, like JS and his banking or his putting money into united order to lose it all. Or his bid for US president or even Abraham's success in getting the promised land for all future generations........................ call that temporal if you will. but my point is well founded. Claiming someone is leading you astray for non-doctrinal reasons is fully, and completely UNFOUNDED and isn't even teachings of men, mingled iwith scripture, ............ just teachings of men.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Not true Lizzy. You cannot say that if FP says something that all 15 agree. And, it makes me laugh that I just said a few minutes ago not to quote Wendy........... she is basically nobody. I see the leaders (RMN) putting the spin that we all agree, blah, blah.... hype. My former employer, the Dems, NFL, everyone makes such a claim. It usually means only that they squelched any public opposition. but, come one quoting Wendy...............................................

Reluctant: you appear to not even be able to read my short response? I never said the words spiritual and temporal. I said the definition of leading astray is leading away from a belief in god. I also agreed that never have prophets been infallible. Not sure what your complaining about. So, like JS and his banking or his putting money into united order to lose it all. Or his bid for US president or even Abraham's success in getting the promised land for all future generations........................ call that temporal if you will. but my point is well founded. Claiming someone is leading you astray for non-doctrinal reasons is fully, and completely UNFOUNDED and isn't even teachings of men, mingled iwith scripture, ............ just teachings of men.

Temporal and spiritual covers all bases. Which means there is no distinction between away from God or in any other temporal matter. And I would vehemently argue that he is leading people away from God. Sure, he says nice things from the pulpit, but he also teaches anti-Christian philosophies.

[TheDuke]

Reluctant: I disagree but the idea on continuing to discuss given you're constant negative tones are taking a toll on the spirit today. maybe tomorrow.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Reluctant: I disagree but the idea on continuing to discuss given you're constant negative tones are taking a toll on the spirit today. maybe tomorrow.

“Negative” “Negative” “Negative.”

Duke, all you see is the “negative”, deal with the reality that he teaches false doctrine. I’ve repeatedly shared scripture on the forum that presents what correct doctrine is, yet few care to see both sides (the church is two-faced/hypocrites, and Moroni would agree: “Oh, ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, why have ye polluted the holy church of God). If the church taught and stood by JST Mark 9 and 2 Nephi 28:31, I’d be back in the pew this coming Sunday. Because at least then we could have a conversation about what is doctrine and what is the philosophies of men, and what is downright evil.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I think these words from a recent social media post are quite applicable to the jab discussion. Although, IMO, I think things are far more devious among the Q15.

“ Something I find particularly interesting is what new members to the apostleship are taught. They are told that if their voice is in the minority then they must align with the majority then act as though that was their original voice. So right there it is established that if the Spirit reveals something to only one then that individual must deny the Spirit in order to align with the rest.
President Eyring then reveals the next piece of the puzzle. It is the policy that whatever the “prophet” says is revelation, therefore they must align to it. So what it really boils down to is that whatever the “prophet” says is the revelation that the rest of the apostles must align with, and if a majority of opinions are at odds with “the prophet” then they must change so that they align with his will. In other words, he is a dictator.
That dictator mentality then spreads to the rest of the church wherein all must also align with the “prophet” even if the Spirit reveals differently. In other words, members are also expected to deny the Spirit if the Spirit failed to align with “the prophet”. Thus “the prophet” also has dictatorial authority over God.
It is interesting to see how the core standards play into the observance of that dictator mentality. It is the My Will Core Standard that produces the definition for right and wrong wherein “right” is defined as anything that gets the will met. Brigham Young was a narcissist, thus all had to comply with Brigham’s will else they were in the wrong. That method of thinking was implemented into church policies, and Brigham only put those people into key leadership positions that would uphold that thinking. Hence the policy was established, and still remains, that the will of the leader must be met else it is wrong. That’s also the basis for developing narcissism, hence what we are seeing is a narcissistic church that tries to appease all.”

This is a perfect example of what happened between me and my SP. According to him, I cannot receive revelation contrary to the prophet, otherwise I am the apostate. A load of crap right there.

I questioned the safe/effective claim from the profit and was called to repentance. He said I was calling them liars and deceivers, when I never made such a claim… but, I guess he’d be right regardless. They lied to and they deceived the flock.

[Christianlee]

I went to lunch with a friend today. His wife is vaxxed and boosted. She is constantly getting new bouts of Covid. Her body is wracked with arthritis. She is in her mid-60s.

[Chip]

I went to lunch with a friend today. His wife is vaxxed and boosted. She is constantly getting new bouts of Covid. Her body is wracked with arthritis. She is in her mid-60s.

I have a sister-in-law who is in her early forties and has early onset rheumatoid arthritis from the covid vaccine. She is always sick these days and we never see her. Her husband pleaded with her not to get the shots, but she wanted to follow the prophet.

At one point, her husband asked if we could give her a blessing. So, I prepared at home, drove the 2 hours to get there, and it took hours to get her to seemingly realize that we intended to give her a blessing. I guess you could say she was not really on board. She could not be healed in that state and it was a wasted trip for me. I think she still does not want to acknowledge the gravity of the mistake. It cannot compute in her TBM mind.

Recently, her husband asked me for some ivermectin. I said I would bring down a tube, but he said that would not work because his wife would not take it. She would need pills. So, I calculated a 5 day dose and took them down to him. He said that he was going to tell her that he got them from an Indian friend at work. If she knew they came from me, she would probably be too untrusting of them. It's so strange.

She asked me in the past not to send him anymore articles about vaccine injury. It was "causing him too much stress". What is causing him stress is that his wife is prone to make horrible decisions because of her brainwashed state and potentially fatal determinedness to remain in denial.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I've refrained in some conversations from bringing up the jab and the detrimental side effects, simply because what has been done is done, and the worry probably wouldn't help the situation.

[Reluctant Watchman]

For those of you who haven't realized this yet #HearHim ALSO means #HearThem

[LateOutOfBed]

And, it makes me laugh that I just said a few minutes ago not to quote Wendy........... she is basically nobody.

This statement says a lot about you Duke. You're no better than Wendy. Neither am I. "Are we all not beggars"?

[Reluctant Watchman]

Semi-relevant to the previous discussion.

[h_p]

I guess in you statement above, that I haven't ever seen RMN say that we don't have a choice. He, in fact, said we should pray, see Dr and make a choice.

Do you have a reference for this? The only thing I've ever seen from any of the 15 is Renlund in that stake conference saying we can take the advice of the handbook, which was really a generic statement regarding all actual vaccines made in the BC (Before Crazy) days. I'd honestly like to see it, and if he did, I will certainly give him credit for it.

But, they never pushed or forced anyone.

Nelson was pro vax mandate before Biden was. The BYU Hawaii mandate was levied in the summer with the approval of its Board of Directors, of which the FP and most(?) of the apostles are a part of. If Nelson's opinion was that people had the right to pray about it and make their own choice, BYU Hawaii would either 1) not have had a mandate, or 2) allowed for a religious exemption. They did neither. They didn't even allow for a health exemption. Now you can say the students had a choice not to attend, but I would consider their mandate clearly in the realm of pushing and coercing.

And it's arguably force if they mandate a vax for missions when they're not required by anyone but the church, which was the case. You can't really be a male member in the church's good graces if you willfully don't go on a mission. The cultural pressure and implied negative spiritual consequences are too great to consider it anything but force.

Now, that does leave a great question about missionaries where they mandated. But, I'd say that I wouldn't go or encourage my sons given those constraints. So, maybe that is leaving little choice. but, I don't think missionary work during covid lockdowns was good for anyone, not missionaries, not investigators, not doing facebook teaching, etc... It was a bad time in general, likely the Lord would rather they stay home than get the jab or be a missionary..... but it is an individuals choice to make, not mine anyway.

We can all say what we think the Lord would rather (and I certainly agree with you here), but in this church Nelson has the final say on that, like it or not.

[Reluctant Watchman]

... and to add to the comment from h_p, Rasband was adamant that we get the shot and follow the profit, even if our government leaders told us not to take it. (Rasband told this to a little girl in Africa who said her gov. leaders told them not to take the jab.) The whole "follow your government leaders" was a smoke and mirrors act. They wanted you to follow the profit regardless. They had agenda.

Oh, what's that you say... "hypocrisy..."? Why, yes, that fits nicely.

[Silver Pie]

Preaching evil is evil. By their fruits, ye shall know them. By their doctrine, ye shall know them. Both of which are evil. (Not everything, but certainly evil on very key fruits and very key doctrines)

That's very true.

[Silver Pie]

But when someone starts saying things like we should be jailed or driven out of society, or supporting vax mandates, that's where I draw the line.

This is definitely satanic and, in my opinion, the same spirit that drove the Nephite city Ammonihah to murder (burn) women and children and chase the men out of town. And God destroyed them in one day not too long after that.

[Silver Pie]

.

Before the jags, I don't recall ever hearing about a person that young having a stroke.

[Silver Pie]

I've refrained in some conversations from bringing up the jab and the detrimental side effects, simply because what has been done is done, and the worry probably wouldn't help the situation.

I have some friends with serious health problems; they got a thousand times worse after the jag. Another healthy friend had some kind of brain aneurysm. Almost took her from us, from what I saw. I don't say anything. Even if they believed there was a connection, all it would do is make them feel horrible about their choice. I just pray that God will heal and help them.

[Lizzy60]

I've refrained in some conversations from bringing up the jab and the detrimental side effects, simply because what has been done is done, and the worry probably wouldn't help the situation.

I have some friends with serious health problems; they got a thousand times worse after the jag. Another healthy friend had some kind of brain aneurysm. Almost took her from us, from what I saw. I don't say anything. Even if they believed there was a connection, all it would do is make them feel horrible about their choice. I just pray that God will heal and help them.

A woman has worked for my husband for years, and we are good friends. We were all anti-jab. Her husband, who I don’t know well, had prostate cancer, but it was being treated and it wasn’t considered serious. Then, he got the jab for work. The day she told me, I could tell she didn’t want to hear anything more about jab injuries.

Very shortly after his jab he was diagnosed with very serious, inoperable colon cancer. Chemo, infusions, the works. I am really glad I didn’t say “I told you so”. She needs my friendship, not reminders.