Does Proxy Work Bother You?

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Pazooka
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Re: Does Proxy Work Bother You?

Post by Pazooka »

If you examine the language it’s interesting to note that he is saying the “place” (temple) is for endowments for oneself and baptisms for the dead. Even though he mentions endowments and has the opportunity to mention endowment work for the dead, he conspicuously does not.

"in regard to the law of the Priesthood—there should be a place where all nations shall come up from time to time to receive their endowments, and the Lord has said, this shall be the place for the baptism for the dead—every man that has been baptized and belongs to the Kingdom, has a right to be baptized for those who are gone before”

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: Does Proxy Work Bother You?

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

Robin Hood wrote: September 3rd, 2021, 3:20 am
Havenseeker wrote: September 3rd, 2021, 1:28 am I would like to get some other opinions on this topic. I have mixed feelings about temple work and since I have found people on this forum to have interesting POVs I would like to present my quandary.

The temple ordinances bothered me from the beginning. As I later continued to attend and do proxy work I had two spiritual interactions:

1) A very lengthy interaction with a Sister where I was the vessel for a message from the Spirit. This was a distinctly positive experience - the first, and only, I’d ever had with such clarity from the Holy Ghost.

2) During a sealing, I was “visited” by one of the names that I was doing proxy work for. It was a distinctly unpleasant interaction that left me pondering the nature of the work we do in the Temple.

I am a slow thinker. I chew on ideas, sometimes for years, to come to an understanding of deep truths. So here are my thoughts:

We are told in the scriptures to avoid familiar spirits, witchcraft, and medium work (channeling spirits), yet proxy work is all about channeling spirits. We call them to us and invite them into our bodies (Including the Holy Ghost, who is a spirit too.)

Now maybe in most cases it is benign, but in my case, it was a very upset and angry spirit that rattled around inside my space. From my understanding of the occult, I was put in a very spiritually dangerous situation. Fortunately for me, I am the equivalent to spiritual lead, so the visitor could not stay long, but it seemed irresponsible of the Church to have put me in such a delicate situation in the first place.

It seems to me that proxy work is in direct opposition to the scriptures, but if for some reason it’s still okay, it seems wrong/irresponsible to channel spirits without a working knowledge of spiritual self defense.

And so here’s the crux of this post: Is proxy work doing the duty of a Medium? Should we really be channeling spirits, especially when we are not taught how to protect ourselves from them? Am I the only one who thinks there is a problem?

~Havenseeker
A very interesting perspective.
I have always had mixed feelings regarding the principle of temple work.
I don't have much of a problem with baptisms for the dead, but am a little unsure of everything else, especially endowments for the dead.
I cannot for the life of me understand why we perform endowments for those who have passed away. They are still perfectly able to make promises and covenants; why do I have to do it for them?
Something needs to keep those tithing-paying members coming back in every now and then...

Prana
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Re: Does Proxy Work Bother You?

Post by Prana »

Proxy work is busy work to keep members treading on the corporate hamster wheel while church executives stunt for the NWO.

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Gadianton Slayer
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Re: Does Proxy Work Bother You?

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

Personally, believing in MMP, I see no reason for much of the vicarious work being done. I don’t think it’s this idea of,”oh I’ve got to do temple work because all those people are depending on me!”

I’ve been meaning to look into it more, so this is my un-studied opinion.

Serragon
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Re: Does Proxy Work Bother You?

Post by Serragon »

Prana wrote: October 15th, 2021, 4:18 pm Proxy work is busy work to keep members treading on the corporate hamster wheel while church executives stunt for the NWO.
I know too many people, including close relatives, who have had experiences in the temple in relation to doing work for their relatives to think it is meaningless. But I do think we have jumped the shark a bit with how we do things for everyone over and over again.

I recently tracked down one of my wifes relatives I had been looking for for years. Turns out that, according to the church, he already had a wife and has been sealed. Looking for any reason for this person to be attached to him, there was nothing. Someone just did it and that was that. This kind of thing needs to stop and we need to stop doing work for people we are not related to unless asked by one of the relatives to participate.

Prana
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Re: Does Proxy Work Bother You?

Post by Prana »

Serragon wrote: October 15th, 2021, 4:26 pm
Prana wrote: October 15th, 2021, 4:18 pm Proxy work is busy work to keep members treading on the corporate hamster wheel while church executives stunt for the NWO.
I know too many people, including close relatives, who have had experiences in the temple in relation to doing work for their relatives to think it is meaningless. But I do think we have jumped the shark a bit with how we do things for everyone over and over again.

I recently tracked down one of my wifes relatives I had been looking for for years. Turns out that, according to the church, he already had a wife and has been sealed. Looking for any reason for this person to be attached to him, there was nothing. Someone just did it and that was that. This kind of thing needs to stop and we need to stop doing work for people we are not related to unless asked by one of the relatives to participate.
I can sympathize with the ‘spiritual experience’ defense. I used it myself for years to explain away the fraud that is being perpetuated on good people by a 501c3 NWO corporation.

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Pazooka
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Re: Does Proxy Work Bother You?

Post by Pazooka »

Here’s a treatment of the commencement of endowment work for the dead in the St. George temple in 1877. I think it deserves scrutiny. Upon first examination, I don’t believe JS’s comments warrant support for what we currently undertake.

https://byustudies.byu.edu/wp-content/u ... d027a9.pdf

EmmaLee
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Re: Does Proxy Work Bother You?

Post by EmmaLee »

Robin Hood wrote: October 15th, 2021, 3:55 pm My wife has ancestors who have been endowed and sealed, but never baptised!

Having said that, my son told me that when he was in the MTC there were a couple of missionaries there who had received the Melchizedek priesthood, been endowed etc, but had never been baptised. They were baptised there before they left the MTC for their missions.
Serragon wrote:....according to the church, he already had a wife and has been sealed. Looking for any reason for this person to be attached to him, there was nothing. Someone just did it and that was that.

“Mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion” Doctrine & Covenants 132:8

After spending weeks checking the records of the Church several years ago, I found that the vast majority of my ancestors (on both sides) have had their temple work done for them multiple times - been baptized many times, had their initiatory done many times, have been endowed many times, sealed to this, that, and the other person, again, multiple times, etc. That is not "order" - that is "confusion". The examples given by RH and Serragon - more confusion. Is the Lord pleased with all this?

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Elizabeth
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Re: Does Proxy Work Bother You?

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