Such a great divide within the church on this subject!The Creator wrote: ↑May 7th, 2022, 3:10 pmI think you meant to say that the American sheep descended from the sheep the Lamanites raised in the Heartland of America. The Mexican sheep were brought by the Spaniards.
Working on the Railroad
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Re: Working on the Railroad
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Re: Working on the Railroad
Thanks for the "obvious". The older I get, the more dyslexic and grammar/spelling challenged I get.
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Re: Working on the Railroad
Within 50 years, the Mesoamerican theory will be mostly forgotten. The bigger divide/debate will be between the Heartland theory vs the theory that the BoM is not a history of a real civilization.larsenb wrote: ↑May 9th, 2022, 1:20 pmSuch a great divide within the church on this subject!The Creator wrote: ↑May 7th, 2022, 3:10 pmI think you meant to say that the American sheep descended from the sheep the Lamanites raised in the Heartland of America. The Mexican sheep were brought by the Spaniards.
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Re: Working on the Railroad
Hold on to those comforting thoughts, Brian. We need all the comfort we can get now-a-days.The Creator wrote: ↑May 9th, 2022, 1:24 pmWithin 50 years, the Mesoamerican theory will be mostly forgotten. The bigger divide/debate will be between the Heartland theory vs the theory that the BoM is not a history of a real civilization.larsenb wrote: ↑May 9th, 2022, 1:20 pmSuch a great divide within the church on this subject!The Creator wrote: ↑May 7th, 2022, 3:10 pmI think you meant to say that the American sheep descended from the sheep the Lamanites raised in the Heartland of America. The Mexican sheep were brought by the Spaniards.
- Mangus MacLeod
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Re: Working on the Railroad
Since I have been known to share stories in this thread, rather than start another thread for this story -- which seems like it would be a waste anyway, I'm going to be loyal to this thread and share it here.
Within the past week, I was traveling along I-15 through Utah from Arizona to Idaho. I needed a few things, so I stopped at the Costco in Spanish Fork, and than swung over by the nearby Walmart. As I was pulling through the parking lot, I noticed what appeared to be a hispanic woman, sitting in a wheelchair, with braces on both legs, pan-handling. She was in a weird spot, at the side of the Walmart parking, right in front of the Petco dumpsters.
Well, for whatever reason, I have a soft spot for pan-handlers. I know that some of them are scammers, so I virtually always talk to them to find out what their story is, and then discern for myself whether or not I think they are worthy of a donation. And, if I conclude they are, I usually try to be as generous as I can be, in hopes that it will be enough that they can then go do what it is they need to do, whether it be buy a tank of gas, or whatever.
In this case, I made a mental note of this woman, and then went into Walmart, with the intention of going and talking to her when I was done, which I did.
She was sitting out in the sun in a hot, black parking lot in the middle of the afternoon, without any shade, food or water. She didn't speak a word of English. But between my poor Spanish and our cell phone translation apps, we were able to communicate, and she told me her story. She said that she had come from Ecuador to the U.S./Mexican border in hopes of crossing. She had come with her "man," leaving three children in Ecuador with her mother, hoping to eventually send for them. Well, at the border, she made it over the wall, but badly broke both her ankles when she landed on the U.S., side of the border, requiring extensive reconstructive surgery, including plates and screws, etc. But her man didn't make it over the wall, and was detained in Mexico. This all happened about two months ago, and she hasn't heard from him since. But she recently made it to Provo, where she has a friend, who she is staying with.
Because I have been scammed/burnt before, including recently in the worst such scam I have ever experienced, I took a trust but verify approach with her, and actually asked her to take off her braces and show me her ankles, which she did. At that point, I was quite embarrassed that I had been so jaded. I got her some food and water, gave her a generous donation, and got her contact information.
On my way back from Idaho, I checked in on her, at her residence, with her friends, in Provo, just to see how everyone was doing. There were nine people in a two bedroom apartment, for which they all pool their money earned mostly from working for Door Dash, and pay $1900/month for rent. She told me that because of her broken ankles, obviously there's not much work she can do, so that's why she panhandles, because she is obligated both for her share of the living expenses, and to send some money back home for her children. She said that panhandling beats sitting home bored in the apartment. But since they live in a second floor apartment, someone has to take her wheelchair, while someone else carries her on their back down the stairs.
I asked her how much money she typically receives per half-day pan-handling session. I was shocked when she told me that it is usually only $20-30, and never more than $50 (except the day I came by).
I'll be honest, I am still kind of floored, that right in the heart of so-called "Zion," people are that self-absorbed and blind to the needs around them.
I am still floored. Should I be? What is wrong with me that I should even care about something like this?
Within the past week, I was traveling along I-15 through Utah from Arizona to Idaho. I needed a few things, so I stopped at the Costco in Spanish Fork, and than swung over by the nearby Walmart. As I was pulling through the parking lot, I noticed what appeared to be a hispanic woman, sitting in a wheelchair, with braces on both legs, pan-handling. She was in a weird spot, at the side of the Walmart parking, right in front of the Petco dumpsters.
Well, for whatever reason, I have a soft spot for pan-handlers. I know that some of them are scammers, so I virtually always talk to them to find out what their story is, and then discern for myself whether or not I think they are worthy of a donation. And, if I conclude they are, I usually try to be as generous as I can be, in hopes that it will be enough that they can then go do what it is they need to do, whether it be buy a tank of gas, or whatever.
In this case, I made a mental note of this woman, and then went into Walmart, with the intention of going and talking to her when I was done, which I did.
She was sitting out in the sun in a hot, black parking lot in the middle of the afternoon, without any shade, food or water. She didn't speak a word of English. But between my poor Spanish and our cell phone translation apps, we were able to communicate, and she told me her story. She said that she had come from Ecuador to the U.S./Mexican border in hopes of crossing. She had come with her "man," leaving three children in Ecuador with her mother, hoping to eventually send for them. Well, at the border, she made it over the wall, but badly broke both her ankles when she landed on the U.S., side of the border, requiring extensive reconstructive surgery, including plates and screws, etc. But her man didn't make it over the wall, and was detained in Mexico. This all happened about two months ago, and she hasn't heard from him since. But she recently made it to Provo, where she has a friend, who she is staying with.
Because I have been scammed/burnt before, including recently in the worst such scam I have ever experienced, I took a trust but verify approach with her, and actually asked her to take off her braces and show me her ankles, which she did. At that point, I was quite embarrassed that I had been so jaded. I got her some food and water, gave her a generous donation, and got her contact information.
On my way back from Idaho, I checked in on her, at her residence, with her friends, in Provo, just to see how everyone was doing. There were nine people in a two bedroom apartment, for which they all pool their money earned mostly from working for Door Dash, and pay $1900/month for rent. She told me that because of her broken ankles, obviously there's not much work she can do, so that's why she panhandles, because she is obligated both for her share of the living expenses, and to send some money back home for her children. She said that panhandling beats sitting home bored in the apartment. But since they live in a second floor apartment, someone has to take her wheelchair, while someone else carries her on their back down the stairs.
I asked her how much money she typically receives per half-day pan-handling session. I was shocked when she told me that it is usually only $20-30, and never more than $50 (except the day I came by).
I'll be honest, I am still kind of floored, that right in the heart of so-called "Zion," people are that self-absorbed and blind to the needs around them.
I am still floored. Should I be? What is wrong with me that I should even care about something like this?
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Re: Working on the Railroad
This is what proves we aren't Zion. Do we seek out the sufferers? The poor, the hungry, and the lonely? Some do, but I could definitely do better. I'm too wrapped up in my own problems and I don't think I'm the only one. I try to reach out to others but in Rexburg I get a chance to help someone personally about once a year.Mangus MacLeod wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 10:29 pm Since I have been known to share stories in this thread, rather than start another thread for this story -- which seems like it would be a waste anyway, I'm going to be loyal to this thread and share it here.
Within the past week, I was traveling along I-15 through Utah from Arizona to Idaho. I needed a few things, so I stopped at the Costco in Spanish Fork, and than swung over by the nearby Walmart. As I was pulling through the parking lot, I noticed what appeared to be a hispanic woman, sitting in a wheelchair, with braces on both legs, pan-handling. She was in a weird spot, at the side of the Walmart parking, right in front of the Petco dumpsters.
Well, for whatever reason, I have a soft spot for pan-handlers. I know that some of them are scammers, so I virtually always talk to them to find out what their story is, and then discern for myself whether or not I think they are worthy of a donation. And, if I conclude they are, I usually try to be as generous as I can be, in hopes that it will be enough that they can then go do what it is they need to do, whether it be buy a tank of gas, or whatever.
In this case, I made a mental note of this woman, and then went into Walmart, with the intention of going and talking to her when I was done, which I did.
SA 8.2022.jpg
She was sitting out in the sun in a hot, black parking lot in the middle of the afternoon, without any shade, food or water. She didn't speak a word of English. But between my poor Spanish and our cell phone translation apps, we were able to communicate, and she told me her story. She said that she had come from Ecuador to the U.S./Mexican border in hopes of crossing. She had come with her "man," leaving three children in Ecuador with her mother, hoping to eventually send for them. Well, at the border, she made it over the wall, but badly broke both her ankles when she landed on the U.S., side of the border, requiring extensive reconstructive surgery, including plates and screws, etc. But her man didn't make it over the wall, and was detained in Mexico. This all happened about two months ago, and she hasn't heard from him since. But she recently made it to Provo, where she has a friend, who she is staying with.
Because I have been scammed/burnt before, including recently in the worst such scam I have ever experienced, I took a trust but verify approach with her, and actually asked her to take off her braces and show me her ankles, which she did. At that point, I was quite embarrassed that I had been so jaded. I got her some food and water, gave her a generous donation, and got her contact information.
On my way back from Idaho, I checked in on her, at her residence, with her friends, in Provo, just to see how everyone was doing. There were nine people in a two bedroom apartment, for which they all pool their money earned mostly from working for Door Dash, and pay $1900/month for rent. She told me that because of her broken ankles, obviously there's not much work she can do, so that's why she panhandles, because she is obligated both for her share of the living expenses, and to send some money back home for her children. She said that panhandling beats sitting home bored in the apartment. But since they live in a second floor apartment, someone has to take her wheelchair, while someone else carries her on their back down the stairs.
I asked her how much money she typically receives per half-day pan-handling session. I was shocked when she told me that it is usually only $20-30, and never more than $50 (except the day I came by).
I'll be honest, I am still kind of floored, that right in the heart of so-called "Zion," people are that self-absorbed and blind to the needs around them.
I am still floored. Should I be? What is wrong with me that I should even care about something like this?
Of course, we should be worried about her. She's Jesus on the cross. She's our sister and we hardly do anything. Maybe we give at the office (read Church except now I don't trust them with money anymore).
If she has a go fund me page I'll send her some money to help her. It won't be too much but I could do $20 or $30 each month.
Right now we really need to find a trusted organization to help the people in Pakistan. One place I read about got 70 inches of rain in one day. You think it's the last days?!?
Last edited by Atrasado on August 30th, 2022, 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Working on the Railroad
Mangus MacLeod wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 10:29 pm Since I have been known to share stories in this thread, rather than start another thread for this story -- which seems like it would be a waste anyway, I'm going to be loyal to this thread and share it here.
Within the past week, I was traveling along I-15 through Utah from Arizona to Idaho. I needed a few things, so I stopped at the Costco in Spanish Fork, and than swung over by the nearby Walmart. As I was pulling through the parking lot, I noticed what appeared to be a hispanic woman, sitting in a wheelchair, with braces on both legs, pan-handling. She was in a weird spot, at the side of the Walmart parking, right in front of the Petco dumpsters.
Well, for whatever reason, I have a soft spot for pan-handlers. I know that some of them are scammers, so I virtually always talk to them to find out what their story is, and then discern for myself whether or not I think they are worthy of a donation. And, if I conclude they are, I usually try to be as generous as I can be, in hopes that it will be enough that they can then go do what it is they need to do, whether it be buy a tank of gas, or whatever.
In this case, I made a mental note of this woman, and then went into Walmart, with the intention of going and talking to her when I was done, which I did.
SA 8.2022.jpg
She was sitting out in the sun in a hot, black parking lot in the middle of the afternoon, without any shade, food or water. She didn't speak a word of English. But between my poor Spanish and our cell phone translation apps, we were able to communicate, and she told me her story. She said that she had come from Ecuador to the U.S./Mexican border in hopes of crossing. She had come with her "man," leaving three children in Ecuador with her mother, hoping to eventually send for them. Well, at the border, she made it over the wall, but badly broke both her ankles when she landed on the U.S., side of the border, requiring extensive reconstructive surgery, including plates and screws, etc. But her man didn't make it over the wall, and was detained in Mexico. This all happened about two months ago, and she hasn't heard from him since. But she recently made it to Provo, where she has a friend, who she is staying with.
Because I have been scammed/burnt before, including recently in the worst such scam I have ever experienced, I took a trust but verify approach with her, and actually asked her to take off her braces and show me her ankles, which she did. At that point, I was quite embarrassed that I had been so jaded. I got her some food and water, gave her a generous donation, and got her contact information.
On my way back from Idaho, I checked in on her, at her residence, with her friends, in Provo, just to see how everyone was doing. There were nine people in a two bedroom apartment, for which they all pool their money earned mostly from working for Door Dash, and pay $1900/month for rent. She told me that because of her broken ankles, obviously there's not much work she can do, so that's why she panhandles, because she is obligated both for her share of the living expenses, and to send some money back home for her children. She said that panhandling beats sitting home bored in the apartment. But since they live in a second floor apartment, someone has to take her wheelchair, while someone else carries her on their back down the stairs.
I asked her how much money she typically receives per half-day pan-handling session. I was shocked when she told me that it is usually only $20-30, and never more than $50 (except the day I came by).
I'll be honest, I am still kind of floored, that right in the heart of so-called "Zion," people are that self-absorbed and blind to the needs around them.
I am still floored. Should I be? What is wrong with me that I should even care about something like this?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with you. What's wrong, is there is not enough like you. You are doing as Jesus Christ said to do, you are doing something good to the "least of these," and so you will have treasure in Heaven, because that is where your heart is.
- Lineman1012
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Re: Working on the Railroad
If you wanna try a fun experiment to see how tight a grip you have on your money, read Babylon, try this: set aside $20 one dollar bills and give one to every panhandler you see. You can’t risk your life or put anyone else in danger, like if you’re in the middle lane and they’re on the side of the road, you get a pass. But if you pull up alongside of them at a stop sign and they walk by, you have to give them one dollar. Just see if you can do it. Then report back
A friend and I had this challenge for a new year resolution. We did it for an entire year and I bet we didn’t give away more than $30 each. Funny thing is the Lord steps in and tests you to see how well you do. Close to the end of the year my friend saw a guy in need and he opened his wallet and all he had was a $1 and a $20. The thought came to him, “give him the $20”. He gave him the $1 and the guy stared him down and as he was doing that my friend heard, “you failed the test”. “You can give 20 guys $1 but you can’t give one guy $20”.To this day he knows that was an angel send to run the test.
A friend and I had this challenge for a new year resolution. We did it for an entire year and I bet we didn’t give away more than $30 each. Funny thing is the Lord steps in and tests you to see how well you do. Close to the end of the year my friend saw a guy in need and he opened his wallet and all he had was a $1 and a $20. The thought came to him, “give him the $20”. He gave him the $1 and the guy stared him down and as he was doing that my friend heard, “you failed the test”. “You can give 20 guys $1 but you can’t give one guy $20”.To this day he knows that was an angel send to run the test.
- Mangus MacLeod
- captain of 100
- Posts: 193
Re: Working on the Railroad
Well, I have certainly had my eyes opened. People seriously only give $1 in situations like this?
It sounds like maybe I am the odd man out. Everybody else seems to be expecting everyone else to match what they give, for it to amount to anything, while my approach is to try to figure out what will satisfy the need and simply take care of it as quickly and expeditiously as possible.
Years ago I started taking at least half of what ever I was paying in Fast Offerings, and always tried to carry at least that much cash at all times, with the intent to give it to someone in need.
One of the interesting things I have experienced though is that my wife always seems to resent it. It seems like every time I do something like that she acts like I’m trying to circumvent the Church’s role, and like anything I give is coming straight out of her own mouth.
This isn’t the first time I have encountered this. I grew up in a rural area and seldom went to the “city.” The first time I had ever seen a homeless panhandler was when I was 19 and my mother took me to Mr. Mac’s in downtown SLC to buy some missionary suits. We passed some panhandlers and my mother made a big point of telling me that as long as we pay our Fast Offerings, we should never feel the need to give to panhandlers. Besides, we had no way of knowing what they would do with it. But the Church would figure it all out and take care of any actual needs.
It sounds like maybe I am the odd man out. Everybody else seems to be expecting everyone else to match what they give, for it to amount to anything, while my approach is to try to figure out what will satisfy the need and simply take care of it as quickly and expeditiously as possible.
Years ago I started taking at least half of what ever I was paying in Fast Offerings, and always tried to carry at least that much cash at all times, with the intent to give it to someone in need.
One of the interesting things I have experienced though is that my wife always seems to resent it. It seems like every time I do something like that she acts like I’m trying to circumvent the Church’s role, and like anything I give is coming straight out of her own mouth.
This isn’t the first time I have encountered this. I grew up in a rural area and seldom went to the “city.” The first time I had ever seen a homeless panhandler was when I was 19 and my mother took me to Mr. Mac’s in downtown SLC to buy some missionary suits. We passed some panhandlers and my mother made a big point of telling me that as long as we pay our Fast Offerings, we should never feel the need to give to panhandlers. Besides, we had no way of knowing what they would do with it. But the Church would figure it all out and take care of any actual needs.
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Re: Working on the Railroad
I don't think your mother is unique in that way. However, I didn't read that the Savior said, blessed are you who have given fast offerings. I think he wanted us to be a little more personal.Mangus MacLeod wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 3:11 am Well, I have certainly had my eyes opened. People seriously only give $1 in situations like this?
It sounds like maybe I am the odd man out. Everybody else seems to be expecting everyone else to match what they give, for it to amount to anything, while my approach is to try to figure out what will satisfy the need and simply take care of it as quickly and expeditiously as possible.
Years ago I started taking at least half of what ever I was paying in Fast Offerings, and always tried to carry at least that much cash at all times, with the intent to give it to someone in need.
One of the interesting things I have experienced though is that my wife always seems to resent it. It seems like every time I do something like that she acts like I’m trying to circumvent the Church’s role, and like anything I give is coming straight out of her own mouth.
This isn’t the first time I have encountered this. I grew up in a rural area and seldom went to the “city.” The first time I had ever seen a homeless panhandler was when I was 19 and my mother took me to Mr. Mac’s in downtown SLC to buy some missionary suits. We passed some panhandlers and my mother made a big point of telling me that as long as we pay our Fast Offerings, we should never feel the need to give to panhandlers. Besides, we had no way of knowing what they would do with it. But the Church would figure it all out and take care of any actual needs.
Last edited by Atrasado on September 4th, 2022, 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Lineman1012
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Re: Working on the Railroad
We started with one dollar because we were always condemning them for begging. It was a way to break that habit and see if we could give something, anything or to see if we would walk away sad because we had great possession. Giving to a panhandler or anyone in need is more about you than them.Mangus MacLeod wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 3:11 am Well, I have certainly had my eyes opened. People seriously only give $1 in situations like this?
It sounds like maybe I am the odd man out. Everybody else seems to be expecting everyone else to match what they give, for it to amount to anything, while my approach is to try to figure out what will satisfy the need and simply take care of it as quickly and expeditiously as possible.
Years ago I started taking at least half of what ever I was paying in Fast Offerings, and always tried to carry at least that much cash at all times, with the intent to give it to someone in need.
One of the interesting things I have experienced though is that my wife always seems to resent it. It seems like every time I do something like that she acts like I’m trying to circumvent the Church’s role, and like anything I give is coming straight out of her own mouth.
This isn’t the first time I have encountered this. I grew up in a rural area and seldom went to the “city.” The first time I had ever seen a homeless panhandler was when I was 19 and my mother took me to Mr. Mac’s in downtown SLC to buy some missionary suits. We passed some panhandlers and my mother made a big point of telling me that as long as we pay our Fast Offerings, we should never feel the need to give to panhandlers. Besides, we had no way of knowing what they would do with it. But the Church would figure it all out and take care of any actual needs.
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Re: Working on the Railroad
Mangus MacLeod wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 10:29 pm Since I have been known to share stories in this thread, rather than start another thread for this story -- which seems like it would be a waste anyway, I'm going to be loyal to this thread and share it here.
Within the past week, I was traveling along I-15 through Utah from Arizona to Idaho. I needed a few things, so I stopped at the Costco in Spanish Fork, and than swung over by the nearby Walmart. As I was pulling through the parking lot, I noticed what appeared to be a hispanic woman, sitting in a wheelchair, with braces on both legs, pan-handling. She was in a weird spot, at the side of the Walmart parking, right in front of the Petco dumpsters.
Well, for whatever reason, I have a soft spot for pan-handlers. I know that some of them are scammers, so I virtually always talk to them to find out what their story is, and then discern for myself whether or not I think they are worthy of a donation. And, if I conclude they are, I usually try to be as generous as I can be, in hopes that it will be enough that they can then go do what it is they need to do, whether it be buy a tank of gas, or whatever.
In this case, I made a mental note of this woman, and then went into Walmart, with the intention of going and talking to her when I was done, which I did.
SA 8.2022.jpg
She was sitting out in the sun in a hot, black parking lot in the middle of the afternoon, without any shade, food or water. She didn't speak a word of English. But between my poor Spanish and our cell phone translation apps, we were able to communicate, and she told me her story. She said that she had come from Ecuador to the U.S./Mexican border in hopes of crossing. She had come with her "man," leaving three children in Ecuador with her mother, hoping to eventually send for them. Well, at the border, she made it over the wall, but badly broke both her ankles when she landed on the U.S., side of the border, requiring extensive reconstructive surgery, including plates and screws, etc. But her man didn't make it over the wall, and was detained in Mexico. This all happened about two months ago, and she hasn't heard from him since. But she recently made it to Provo, where she has a friend, who she is staying with.
Because I have been scammed/burnt before, including recently in the worst such scam I have ever experienced, I took a trust but verify approach with her, and actually asked her to take off her braces and show me her ankles, which she did. At that point, I was quite embarrassed that I had been so jaded. I got her some food and water, gave her a generous donation, and got her contact information.
On my way back from Idaho, I checked in on her, at her residence, with her friends, in Provo, just to see how everyone was doing. There were nine people in a two bedroom apartment, for which they all pool their money earned mostly from working for Door Dash, and pay $1900/month for rent. She told me that because of her broken ankles, obviously there's not much work she can do, so that's why she panhandles, because she is obligated both for her share of the living expenses, and to send some money back home for her children. She said that panhandling beats sitting home bored in the apartment. But since they live in a second floor apartment, someone has to take her wheelchair, while someone else carries her on their back down the stairs.
I asked her how much money she typically receives per half-day pan-handling session. I was shocked when she told me that it is usually only $20-30, and never more than $50 (except the day I came by).
I'll be honest, I am still kind of floored, that right in the heart of so-called "Zion," people are that self-absorbed and blind to the needs around them.
I am still floored. Should I be? What is wrong with me that I should even care about something like this?
Who paid for her surgery?
- Mangus MacLeod
- captain of 100
- Posts: 193
Re: Working on the Railroad
Good question. Who paid for the surgery, and the hospital stay, and everything else? — I’m pretty sure the U.S. Govt. — i.e., you and me?Vision wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 9:24 amMangus MacLeod wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 10:29 pm Since I have been known to share stories in this thread, rather than start another thread for this story -- which seems like it would be a waste anyway, I'm going to be loyal to this thread and share it here.
Within the past week, I was traveling along I-15 through Utah from Arizona to Idaho. I needed a few things, so I stopped at the Costco in Spanish Fork, and than swung over by the nearby Walmart. As I was pulling through the parking lot, I noticed what appeared to be a hispanic woman, sitting in a wheelchair, with braces on both legs, pan-handling. She was in a weird spot, at the side of the Walmart parking, right in front of the Petco dumpsters.
Well, for whatever reason, I have a soft spot for pan-handlers. I know that some of them are scammers, so I virtually always talk to them to find out what their story is, and then discern for myself whether or not I think they are worthy of a donation. And, if I conclude they are, I usually try to be as generous as I can be, in hopes that it will be enough that they can then go do what it is they need to do, whether it be buy a tank of gas, or whatever.
In this case, I made a mental note of this woman, and then went into Walmart, with the intention of going and talking to her when I was done, which I did.
SA 8.2022.jpg
She was sitting out in the sun in a hot, black parking lot in the middle of the afternoon, without any shade, food or water. She didn't speak a word of English. But between my poor Spanish and our cell phone translation apps, we were able to communicate, and she told me her story. She said that she had come from Ecuador to the U.S./Mexican border in hopes of crossing. She had come with her "man," leaving three children in Ecuador with her mother, hoping to eventually send for them. Well, at the border, she made it over the wall, but badly broke both her ankles when she landed on the U.S., side of the border, requiring extensive reconstructive surgery, including plates and screws, etc. But her man didn't make it over the wall, and was detained in Mexico. This all happened about two months ago, and she hasn't heard from him since. But she recently made it to Provo, where she has a friend, who she is staying with.
Because I have been scammed/burnt before, including recently in the worst such scam I have ever experienced, I took a trust but verify approach with her, and actually asked her to take off her braces and show me her ankles, which she did. At that point, I was quite embarrassed that I had been so jaded. I got her some food and water, gave her a generous donation, and got her contact information.
On my way back from Idaho, I checked in on her, at her residence, with her friends, in Provo, just to see how everyone was doing. There were nine people in a two bedroom apartment, for which they all pool their money earned mostly from working for Door Dash, and pay $1900/month for rent. She told me that because of her broken ankles, obviously there's not much work she can do, so that's why she panhandles, because she is obligated both for her share of the living expenses, and to send some money back home for her children. She said that panhandling beats sitting home bored in the apartment. But since they live in a second floor apartment, someone has to take her wheelchair, while someone else carries her on their back down the stairs.
I asked her how much money she typically receives per half-day pan-handling session. I was shocked when she told me that it is usually only $20-30, and never more than $50 (except the day I came by).
I'll be honest, I am still kind of floored, that right in the heart of so-called "Zion," people are that self-absorbed and blind to the needs around them.
I am still floored. Should I be? What is wrong with me that I should even care about something like this?
Who paid for her surgery?
But, what’s your point? You/we have all already given enough? Fair enough.
But it’s pretty tough to correctly judge anyone else until we have walked in their shoes.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2600
Re: Working on the Railroad
I am sure what I am about to say will not make me popular.
Sobeit.
She got hurt breaking into someone elses home.
If she had stayed where God planted her.
She would not have needed to be helped.
The homeowner generously paid for her surgury.
Now she owes him money.
She was not invited nor does she belong here.
Deport her and everyone else in that apartment.
They are contributing to raising the cost of housing.
And lowering the cost of labor.
And you are succoring a criminal alien.
I believe that is also a crime.
Or was.
Sir H
Sobeit.
She got hurt breaking into someone elses home.
If she had stayed where God planted her.
She would not have needed to be helped.
The homeowner generously paid for her surgury.
Now she owes him money.
She was not invited nor does she belong here.
Deport her and everyone else in that apartment.
They are contributing to raising the cost of housing.
And lowering the cost of labor.
And you are succoring a criminal alien.
I believe that is also a crime.
Or was.
Sir H
Last edited by HVDC on August 31st, 2022, 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1771
Re: Working on the Railroad
I can see your analogies. But I cause a lot of my own problems, too.HVDC wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 2:09 pm I am sure what I am about yo say will not make me popular.
Sobeit.
She got hurt breaking into someone elses home.
If she had stayed where God planted her.
She would not have needed to be helped.
The homeowner generously paid for her surgury.
Now she owes him money.
She was not invited nor does she belong here.
Deport her and everyone else in that apartment.
They are contributing to raising the cost of housing.
And lowering the cost of labor.
And you are succoring a criminal alien.
I believe that is also a crime.
Or was.
Sir H
Are we not all beggars? Didn't Christ break some pharisaical laws to help others?
How do we balance justice and mercy? I'm not sure but I'm trying, though not so well, to err on the side of mercy.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2600
Re: Working on the Railroad
You said she was hurt breaking into the country.Mangus MacLeod wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 1:52 pmGood question. Who paid for the surgery, and the hospital stay, and everything else? — I’m pretty sure the U.S. Govt. — i.e., you and me?Vision wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 9:24 amMangus MacLeod wrote: ↑August 30th, 2022, 10:29 pm Since I have been known to share stories in this thread, rather than start another thread for this story -- which seems like it would be a waste anyway, I'm going to be loyal to this thread and share it here.
Within the past week, I was traveling along I-15 through Utah from Arizona to Idaho. I needed a few things, so I stopped at the Costco in Spanish Fork, and than swung over by the nearby Walmart. As I was pulling through the parking lot, I noticed what appeared to be a hispanic woman, sitting in a wheelchair, with braces on both legs, pan-handling. She was in a weird spot, at the side of the Walmart parking, right in front of the Petco dumpsters.
Well, for whatever reason, I have a soft spot for pan-handlers. I know that some of them are scammers, so I virtually always talk to them to find out what their story is, and then discern for myself whether or not I think they are worthy of a donation. And, if I conclude they are, I usually try to be as generous as I can be, in hopes that it will be enough that they can then go do what it is they need to do, whether it be buy a tank of gas, or whatever.
In this case, I made a mental note of this woman, and then went into Walmart, with the intention of going and talking to her when I was done, which I did.
SA 8.2022.jpg
She was sitting out in the sun in a hot, black parking lot in the middle of the afternoon, without any shade, food or water. She didn't speak a word of English. But between my poor Spanish and our cell phone translation apps, we were able to communicate, and she told me her story. She said that she had come from Ecuador to the U.S./Mexican border in hopes of crossing. She had come with her "man," leaving three children in Ecuador with her mother, hoping to eventually send for them. Well, at the border, she made it over the wall, but badly broke both her ankles when she landed on the U.S., side of the border, requiring extensive reconstructive surgery, including plates and screws, etc. But her man didn't make it over the wall, and was detained in Mexico. This all happened about two months ago, and she hasn't heard from him since. But she recently made it to Provo, where she has a friend, who she is staying with.
Because I have been scammed/burnt before, including recently in the worst such scam I have ever experienced, I took a trust but verify approach with her, and actually asked her to take off her braces and show me her ankles, which she did. At that point, I was quite embarrassed that I had been so jaded. I got her some food and water, gave her a generous donation, and got her contact information.
On my way back from Idaho, I checked in on her, at her residence, with her friends, in Provo, just to see how everyone was doing. There were nine people in a two bedroom apartment, for which they all pool their money earned mostly from working for Door Dash, and pay $1900/month for rent. She told me that because of her broken ankles, obviously there's not much work she can do, so that's why she panhandles, because she is obligated both for her share of the living expenses, and to send some money back home for her children. She said that panhandling beats sitting home bored in the apartment. But since they live in a second floor apartment, someone has to take her wheelchair, while someone else carries her on their back down the stairs.
I asked her how much money she typically receives per half-day pan-handling session. I was shocked when she told me that it is usually only $20-30, and never more than $50 (except the day I came by).
I'll be honest, I am still kind of floored, that right in the heart of so-called "Zion," people are that self-absorbed and blind to the needs around them.
I am still floored. Should I be? What is wrong with me that I should even care about something like this?
Who paid for her surgery?
But, what’s your point? You/we have all already given enough? Fair enough.
But it’s pretty tough to correctly judge anyone else until we have walked in their shoes.
Not too difficult to judge the right or wrong of that.
Guilty of illegal entry.
Are you suggesting we should all just break the law if we think we should?
If all did that there would be no laws.
No need for lawyers either.
Fix her and deport her.
Poste haste.
Before she births another anchor baby.
Who will be given special rights to education and employement over us non-whatever Americans.
Sir H
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2600
Re: Working on the Railroad
No one American has the right to give succor and access to the country to a criminal alien.Atrasado wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 2:15 pmI can see your analogies. But I cause a lot of my own problems, too.HVDC wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 2:09 pm I am sure what I am about yo say will not make me popular.
Sobeit.
She got hurt breaking into someone elses home.
If she had stayed where God planted her.
She would not have needed to be helped.
The homeowner generously paid for her surgury.
Now she owes him money.
She was not invited nor does she belong here.
Deport her and everyone else in that apartment.
They are contributing to raising the cost of housing.
And lowering the cost of labor.
And you are succoring a criminal alien.
I believe that is also a crime.
Or was.
Sir H
Are we not all beggars? Didn't Christ break some pharisaical laws to help others?
How do we balance justice and mercy? I'm not sure but I'm trying, though not so well, to err on the side of mercy.
This country belongs to all Americans.
Not to criminal aliens.
If we all wanted to do that.
We would change the law.
Then it would be legal.
Stop giving my country away.
Simple.
Sir H
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1771
Re: Working on the Railroad
I think my opinion might make me less popular than you but here goes.HVDC wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 2:19 pmNo one American has the right to give succor and access to the country to a criminal alien.Atrasado wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 2:15 pmI can see your analogies. But I cause a lot of my own problems, too.HVDC wrote: ↑August 31st, 2022, 2:09 pm I am sure what I am about yo say will not make me popular.
Sobeit.
She got hurt breaking into someone elses home.
If she had stayed where God planted her.
She would not have needed to be helped.
The homeowner generously paid for her surgury.
Now she owes him money.
She was not invited nor does she belong here.
Deport her and everyone else in that apartment.
They are contributing to raising the cost of housing.
And lowering the cost of labor.
And you are succoring a criminal alien.
I believe that is also a crime.
Or was.
Sir H
Are we not all beggars? Didn't Christ break some pharisaical laws to help others?
How do we balance justice and mercy? I'm not sure but I'm trying, though not so well, to err on the side of mercy.
This country belongs to all Americans.
Not to criminal aliens.
If we all wanted to do that.
We would change the law.
Then it would be legal.
Stop giving my country away.
Simple.
Sir H
When our government was overthrowing her country's government and ruining her country through CIA drug smuggling what did we as Americans do about that?
Why do we have the right to dictate to other countries what they will do and steal from them and force them to use American dollars which steals from them as well?
Things are not simple, cut and dried. I'm in favor of borders, but I'm also in favor of treating others fairly and we haven't.
Most Americans are not aware of all the harm the United States has done to others and would never approve of they did. Unfortunately, that isn't an excuse. As Americans, it's our duty to understand things (and not just what the cabal wants us to know) and most people don't take that duty seriously. Others are aware and like what we have done. I was like that to a degree. Maybe they will go to hell unless they repent. Others know and try to say something, but good luck fighting Operation Mockingbird on that. We all bear blood guilt and responsibility for what we have allowed to happen on our watch.
So you can damn the beggar who's broken a law if you want. But I would think about the bigger picture. Those are my two cents.
Last edited by Atrasado on September 1st, 2022, 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2600
Re: Working on the Railroad
I never damned the beggar.
I merely pointed out she wouldn't be a beggar if she hadn't broken into the country.
She has received charity.
But now she should leave.
Emotion is clouding your brain.
Equador is not a third world hell hold.
But America is rapidly becoming one.
I am well aware of Americas Sins.
But I don't believe I should pay for them.
You may if you wish.
But only using your resources.
Sir H
I merely pointed out she wouldn't be a beggar if she hadn't broken into the country.
She has received charity.
But now she should leave.
Emotion is clouding your brain.
Equador is not a third world hell hold.
But America is rapidly becoming one.
I am well aware of Americas Sins.
But I don't believe I should pay for them.
You may if you wish.
But only using your resources.
Sir H
- tmac
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 4526
- Location: Reality
Re: Working on the Railroad
I’m going to chime in on this.
One of my main gigs these days is to attempt to find and provide labor for the western livestock industry, which would completely collapse without labor from Latin America, because no spoiled Americans have any interest in doing this grueling work. In the meantime, North American family agriculture is likewise facing a perpetuation crisis, because very few Americans want to work or produce at all any more. All they want to do is consume.
But regardless of the “entitled” mentality, eventually this will all sort itself out when most of the entitled consumers starve to death and some of the producers end up surviving because of their ability to produce.
You can talk “laws” all you want, but at the end of the day it is the fundamental laws of nature that are the most important, and eventually nature and the laws of nature will run their course. And it will be interesting to see who is still standing and puffing their chests at that point.
As society, civilizations and populations evolve in typical survival-of-the-fittest fashion it is those who produce and reproduce that will survive.
And, just curious Sir H, what, if anything, are you actually willing to risk life, limb, and family for? Just sayin’.
One of my main gigs these days is to attempt to find and provide labor for the western livestock industry, which would completely collapse without labor from Latin America, because no spoiled Americans have any interest in doing this grueling work. In the meantime, North American family agriculture is likewise facing a perpetuation crisis, because very few Americans want to work or produce at all any more. All they want to do is consume.
But regardless of the “entitled” mentality, eventually this will all sort itself out when most of the entitled consumers starve to death and some of the producers end up surviving because of their ability to produce.
You can talk “laws” all you want, but at the end of the day it is the fundamental laws of nature that are the most important, and eventually nature and the laws of nature will run their course. And it will be interesting to see who is still standing and puffing their chests at that point.
As society, civilizations and populations evolve in typical survival-of-the-fittest fashion it is those who produce and reproduce that will survive.
And, just curious Sir H, what, if anything, are you actually willing to risk life, limb, and family for? Just sayin’.
- Fred
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 7611
- Location: Zion
Re: Working on the Railroad
They don't come because they love freedom. the constitution. or to become Americans. They hate us. They came to get freebies, rape women, draw graffiti, and be parasites and divide us. They create a divide by not learning English. They have few if any skills. They are socialists and therefore satanic. When the welfare runs out, we will either kill them or they will kill us.
We owe them nothing. Zero. Zip. They are criminals the second they step on our soil.
It is American complacency. laziness, cowardice, and satanic comfort that allow it. I was in line at the Post Office behind a deputy sheriff when at the front of the line was an obvious criminal. He spoke no English, was holding up the line and wanted to get his mail. I asked the deputy "Why don't you arrest the obvious criminal?" She said that nobody cares. If we lock him up no one will come get him and we will have to feed him forever.
There are millions of those commie pricks here now. They contribute nothing.
We owe them nothing. Zero. Zip. They are criminals the second they step on our soil.
It is American complacency. laziness, cowardice, and satanic comfort that allow it. I was in line at the Post Office behind a deputy sheriff when at the front of the line was an obvious criminal. He spoke no English, was holding up the line and wanted to get his mail. I asked the deputy "Why don't you arrest the obvious criminal?" She said that nobody cares. If we lock him up no one will come get him and we will have to feed him forever.
There are millions of those commie pricks here now. They contribute nothing.
- creator
- (of the Forum)
- Posts: 8239
- Location: The Matrix
- Contact:
Re: Working on the Railroad
Fred, I would assume the bad people you are describing are only a small minority of those that enter this country illegally. Most probably just want a better life and are good people.
- Fred
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 7611
- Location: Zion
Re: Working on the Railroad
It sure would be good if you are correct. We have a country to save. Some have no interest in that. Maybe the country won't get saved.
When Californians move to Texas, they bring what they left with them. Same with foreigners. How many states want to be like California? How many states want to be a third world country?
New York and DC were all about open borders until they were on their door step. Then what do you do with thousands of people that don't speak the language and have no skills? Feed them. Give them a place to sleep. Finance it how? Is it sustainable?
When I lived in West Valley, 50 or so illegals moved into a three story home across the street. Things began to disappear from my yard. I did not support them willingly. They do what they have to in order to survive. But it is not by contributing. It is by taking.
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- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1771
Re: Working on the Railroad
I've known illegal immigrants and most of them would work any of us under the table.Fred wrote: ↑September 1st, 2022, 10:02 am They don't come because they love freedom. the constitution. or to become Americans. They hate us. They came to get freebies, rape women, draw graffiti, and be parasites and divide us. They create a divide by not learning English. They have few if any skills. They are socialists and therefore satanic. When the welfare runs out, we will either kill them or they will kill us.
We owe them nothing. Zero. Zip. They are criminals the second they step on our soil.
It is American complacency. laziness, cowardice, and satanic comfort that allow it. I was in line at the Post Office behind a deputy sheriff when at the front of the line was an obvious criminal. He spoke no English, was holding up the line and wanted to get his mail. I asked the deputy "Why don't you arrest the obvious criminal?" She said that nobody cares. If we lock him up no one will come get him and we will have to feed him forever.
There are millions of those commie pricks here now. They contribute nothing.
- Fred
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 7611
- Location: Zion
Re: Working on the Railroad
God gave everyone talents. Some of us are smart. Some of us are laborers.Atrasado wrote: ↑September 1st, 2022, 5:05 pmI've known illegal immigrants and most of them would work any of us under the table.Fred wrote: ↑September 1st, 2022, 10:02 am They don't come because they love freedom. the constitution. or to become Americans. They hate us. They came to get freebies, rape women, draw graffiti, and be parasites and divide us. They create a divide by not learning English. They have few if any skills. They are socialists and therefore satanic. When the welfare runs out, we will either kill them or they will kill us.
We owe them nothing. Zero. Zip. They are criminals the second they step on our soil.
It is American complacency. laziness, cowardice, and satanic comfort that allow it. I was in line at the Post Office behind a deputy sheriff when at the front of the line was an obvious criminal. He spoke no English, was holding up the line and wanted to get his mail. I asked the deputy "Why don't you arrest the obvious criminal?" She said that nobody cares. If we lock him up no one will come get him and we will have to feed him forever.
There are millions of those commie pricks here now. They contribute nothing.
Of course there are good things a person might say about them. But criminally breaking into our country to hasten our bankruptcy and destruction is not one of them.