LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:28 pm**

tribrac wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:27 pm Did they happen to tell us which of the 3 vaccines we should choose?

Seems pretty important distinction to me.

If the goal was to make you healthy maybe...

They don’t care.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:29 pm**

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:14 pm “When ‘Mormonism’ finds favor with the wicked in this land, it will have gone into the shade; but until the power of the Priesthood is gone, ‘Mormonism’ will never become popular with the wicked.” (Brigham Young, JD 4:38, 31 August 1856)

“And when the spirit of persecution, the spirit of hatred, of wrath, and malice ceases in the world against this people, it will be the time that this people have apostatized and joined hands with the wicked, and never until then; which I pray may never come.” (Brigham Young, JD 4:326-327, 31 May 1857)

So if what he says is true, the power of the priesthood is now gone, and we, as a church, have apostatized. Might be the first time I've agreed with BY.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:30 pm**

Gazelem wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:20 pm
Cruiserdude wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:14 pm “When ‘Mormonism’ finds favor with the wicked in this land, it will have gone into the shade; but until the power of the Priesthood is gone, ‘Mormonism’ will never become popular with the wicked.” (Brigham Young, JD 4:38, 31 August 1856)

“And when the spirit of persecution, the spirit of hatred, of wrath, and malice ceases in the world against this people, it will be the time that this people have apostatized and joined hands with the wicked, and never until then; which I pray may never come.” (Brigham Young, JD 4:326-327, 31 May 1857)
Wow, we can give Brother Brigham credit where credit is due.

Yep, it's not so much about Brigham(though he sure did nail it in these quotes) but about the eternal principle taught in his message. Christ Himself taught the very same principle,
He even talks of it in His intercessory prayer. The true Saints will NEVER be celebrated by the world. The world DESPISES our Lord and His true saints. We HAVE to stay true to our Lord and King and to none other.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:32 pm**

Really puts a strain on my faith tbh. I really hate they are taking this stance.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:34 pm**

Are they paying attention to any sources besides KSL and the Deseret News?

These vaccines are failing! A vaccine that works doesn't require booster shots after a few months. A vaccine that works will cause your body to kill the virus, not continue spreading it.

Masks do NOTHING against this thing. Everywhere they've been mandated never saw even a tiny change in rates. But let's not let the truth conflict with what the Goverment is preaching.

You wouldn't expect the church to encourage taking the mark of the beast, but that's where we're headed.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:35 pm**

BLATANT IN OUR FACE FOR THOSE WHO ARE YEARS BEHIND THE CURVE. This is not about them not discerning. It is about willfully aligning with evil and Christ allowing evil to rise to the top of His Church.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:35 pm**

Trucker wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:26 pm
Destroyer wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:19 pm
TrueFaith wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:14 pm Is the prophet counseling us to follow Jesus Christ?

No:

"We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders”

I mean...seriously...what else do you need to see to realize that Russel M Nelson isn't following Christ? HE. JUST. TOLD. US.
So thankful for all the wisdom of man...

Isaiah 29

14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Read the previous chapter and tell me what you think is going on.

I've read it and reread it over and over. It's very clear.

Isaiah 28

7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

My reference to chapter 29 was mocking the hubris of man in thinking he's wise.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:37 pm**

Destroyer wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:35 pm
Trucker wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:26 pm
Destroyer wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:19 pm
TrueFaith wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:14 pm Is the prophet counseling us to follow Jesus Christ?

No:

"We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders”

I mean...seriously...what else do you need to see to realize that Russel M Nelson isn't following Christ? HE. JUST. TOLD. US.
So thankful for all the wisdom of man...

Isaiah 29

14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Read the previous chapter and tell me what you think is going on.
I've read it and reread it over and over. It's very clear.

Isaiah 28

7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

My reference to chapter 29 was mocking the hubris of man in thinking he's wise.

14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:38 pm**

Trucker wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:37 pm
Destroyer wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:35 pm
Trucker wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:26 pm
Destroyer wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:19 pm

So thankful for all the wisdom of man...

Isaiah 29

14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Read the previous chapter and tell me what you think is going on.
I've read it and reread it over and over. It's very clear.

Isaiah 28

7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

My reference to chapter 29 was mocking the hubris of man in thinking he's wise.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:39 pm**

nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:24 pm We have to get our own personal revelation, as Pres. Nelson counsels, to know whether they're speaking inspired counsel or not. As Joseph Smith taught,
A Prophet is not always a Prophet only when he is acting as such.
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... h-1843/178

Given the doubtless intense pressure the first presidency and quorum are receiving from the church's legal team / PR department, in addition to the entangling alliances our church has with various international groups who are all lock-step on this issue, I think this is another instance of them speaking men instead of as prophets & apostles.

The dissenting opinion from numerous doctors seem to suggest masks do nothing for viruses and that the gene therapy injection may actually be making things worse.
We should never follow a course of action based merely on a majority consensus - it only takes one dissenting voice for all these arguments from every other source to be proven a waste of breath.

Everyone's entitled to receive their own personal confirmation.

Bull. The 15 tell Kirton & McConkie what to do and pay them big bucks.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:40 pm**

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:38 pm
Trucker wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:37 pm
Destroyer wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:35 pm
Trucker wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:26 pm

Read the previous chapter and tell me what you think is going on.
I've read it and reread it over and over. It's very clear.

Isaiah 28

7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

My reference to chapter 29 was mocking the hubris of man in thinking he's wise.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

and the footnote refers to the scourge referenced in DC45 which at the time of DC 45 had not come yet, so this is a modern scourge.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:41 pm**

Be still, my soul: The Lord is on thy side;
With patience bear thy cross of grief or pain.
Leave to thy God to order and provide;
In ev’ry change he faithful will remain.
Be still, my soul: Thy best, thy heav’nly Friend
Thru thorny ways leads to a joyful end.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:41 pm**

nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:24 pm We have to get our own personal revelation, as Pres. Nelson counsels, to know whether they're speaking inspired counsel or not. As Joseph Smith taught,
A Prophet is not always a Prophet only when he is acting as such.

The issue here isn’t whether he is speaking as a prophet or not, it’s that he is willingly and intentionally misleading people.

We don’t have to wonder “when” he speaks for God, he never has and never will.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:43 pm**

Why don't members protest?

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:44 pm**

HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:43 pm Why don't members protest?

Because most agree with them. This forum is not representative of the membership at large.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:47 pm**

I was bugged the day Nelson was promoted. First prophet I've ever seen with a huge grin on his face sitting on the edge of his seat enjoying the praise of the world worshiping him.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:47 pm**

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:30 pm
Gazelem wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:20 pm
Cruiserdude wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:14 pm “When ‘Mormonism’ finds favor with the wicked in this land, it will have gone into the shade; but until the power of the Priesthood is gone, ‘Mormonism’ will never become popular with the wicked.” (Brigham Young, JD 4:38, 31 August 1856)

“And when the spirit of persecution, the spirit of hatred, of wrath, and malice ceases in the world against this people, it will be the time that this people have apostatized and joined hands with the wicked, and never until then; which I pray may never come.” (Brigham Young, JD 4:326-327, 31 May 1857)
Wow, we can give Brother Brigham credit where credit is due.
Yep, it's not so much about Brigham(though he sure did nail it in these quotes) but about the eternal principle taught in his message. Christ Himself taught the very same principle,
He even talks of it in His intercessory prayer. The true Saints will NEVER be celebrated by the world. The world DESPISES our Lord and His true saints. We HAVE to stay true to our Lord and King and to none other.

I agree with you on all those accounts. Thank you for adding that.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:48 pm**

Haven't you heard? Brigham Young was cancelled.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:49 pm**

nightowl wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:32 pm Really puts a strain on my faith tbh. I really hate they are taking this stance.

They're not perfect.
It can be easy to, after receiving the royal treatment for so many years from so many accommodating assistants and capable mid-level leaders (who likely are aspiring for the same treatment someday), assume they can add the stamp of their high office below any of their personal convictions or opinions.

The membership of the church ought to recognize that not every word they write or utter should be considered divinely-inspired.

We made a mistake in elevating them to this point. They have responsibility to be careful they don't abuse the lofty position of their office and transform popular politically-inspired viewpoints into quasi-doctrines.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:49 pm**

I too prayed two days ago to find out if I was wrong about the vax. I have not been told I'm wrong to stay away from it. So, I will but the pressures are building on all sides (within family, at job(s), at church (leaders and friends), at stores, neighbors, co-workers that I trusted as conservative, etc...) what a lobbying effort all around. I hope the statements above that it will soon come to an end will be true. But, I'm not sure.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:51 pm**

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:44 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:43 pm Why don't members protest?
Because most agree with them. This forum is not representative of the membership at large.

Yes.
And the ones that don’t agree and keep their feelings to themselves, belong to The Church of the Brethrenites. And they fear getting kicked out. Because “Follow the Prophet”.... or else.
Mind f-ing.
That’s what this is.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:52 pm**

I don't think that masks do anything, so if they say that church isn't safe unless we wear a mask, then to me it's not safe to go at all. I might be staying home until the delta calms down a bit. I'm going to get the moderna vax today or tomorrow (I was planning this before the 1st presidency statement). God speed men!

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:52 pm**

HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:39 pm
nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:24 pm We have to get our own personal revelation, as Pres. Nelson counsels, to know whether they're speaking inspired counsel or not. As Joseph Smith taught,
A Prophet is not always a Prophet only when he is acting as such.
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... h-1843/178

Given the doubtless intense pressure the first presidency and quorum are receiving from the church's legal team / PR department, in addition to the entangling alliances our church has with various international groups who are all lock-step on this issue, I think this is another instance of them speaking men instead of as prophets & apostles.

The dissenting opinion from numerous doctors seem to suggest masks do nothing for viruses and that the gene therapy injection may actually be making things worse.
We should never follow a course of action based merely on a majority consensus - it only takes one dissenting voice for all these arguments from every other source to be proven a waste of breath.

Everyone's entitled to receive their own personal confirmation.
Bull. The 15 tell Kirton & McConkie what to do and pay them big bucks.

I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. This is the best-case scenario I can come up with. Hubris may have something to do with it.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 2:56 pm**

nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:52 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:39 pm
nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:24 pm We have to get our own personal revelation, as Pres. Nelson counsels, to know whether they're speaking inspired counsel or not. As Joseph Smith taught,
A Prophet is not always a Prophet only when he is acting as such.
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... h-1843/178

Given the doubtless intense pressure the first presidency and quorum are receiving from the church's legal team / PR department, in addition to the entangling alliances our church has with various international groups who are all lock-step on this issue, I think this is another instance of them speaking men instead of as prophets & apostles.

The dissenting opinion from numerous doctors seem to suggest masks do nothing for viruses and that the gene therapy injection may actually be making things worse.
We should never follow a course of action based merely on a majority consensus - it only takes one dissenting voice for all these arguments from every other source to be proven a waste of breath.

Everyone's entitled to receive their own personal confirmation.
Bull. The 15 tell Kirton & McConkie what to do and pay them big bucks.
I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. This is the best-case scenario I can come up with. Hubris may have something to do with it.

Why isn't "we simply disagree" immediately higher on people's lists? Why does everyone jump straight to "Everyone who disagrees with me is doing so for evil reasons." I mean, at this point, you know that most doctors and most people generally agree with what they're saying, right? Why is it so hard to think that they're in the majority of people who've looked at it and simply came to a different conclusion than you did?

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:04 pm**

tribrac wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:23 pm I siad TPTB would stop at nothing until we were all injected.

You did

LDS Freedom Forum

First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

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Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine