First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

[Trucker]

Well it is true the FP statement doesn't claim any revelation. It does just echo our wise government leaders. But, it is not being interpreted that way by the lower level GA's (like our area 70), it comes across as follow the prophet, though it was not given as prophecy. Folks like Renlund have taken it and berated people for not following counsel of the prophet, making his apostleship perspective that it is prophecy. Local leaders use it as a weapon against dissenters. It just seems like they don't understand.

And to answer Grunt's question. I don't question that the 15 have been called in an orderly fashion, or that they have the keys of administration. But, I have never blindly followed them. I spent much of this week praying hard (after months of praying gently) about their guidance. And it isn't what the Holy Spirit tells me. You ask why? Easy answer but you will not like it. The answer is the same reason why they gave up teaching milk and went to breast milk in Come Follow Me, why we read PR approved GC talks instead of scriptures like Isaiah or early prophetic teachings. It is because the rank-and-file Mormon needs it. That is what you need. You need to have breast milk pumped to you to survive. That is really ok, please don't be offended. We are all at different stages of progression, read KFD, Joseph's last sermon. We grow from small to great, line-upon-line. Most in the church today aren't ready for or worthy to participate in exaltation. Period, end, stop. Gone are the days when the church was small, many or most understood and studied the scriptures and the leaders dealt in deep doctrine and even touched the edges of the Mysteries of the Kingdom. As the church grew, and people came to it that were simpler, they also are pressing forward for salvation, maybe Terrestrial, maybe entry level Celestial, but not many of the new converts from around the world are actually ready to discuss exaltation. sure, how to live with god, how to inherit his love, how to be engulfed in his glory, but not how to become like god, or to have his godly attributes. It is ok, never has the majority of the church truly been ready for exaltation. One third part are fighting their way out of being a SoP, almost all the rest fighting to get out of the Telestial, few make it. Only a handful are truly preparing for exaltation, and those folks are capable receiving the spirit, praying and having the confidence of the Lord to see beyond the breast milk.

So, you should simply "follow the prophet". If you do you will be blessed. Even if you die from the Vax, it will be accounted unto you as a blessing. Like the children of Moses, a lower law, but live it any you shall "live". But, please stop berating those that are seeking more. It is our right to learn to live by the spirit and to do what god wants for each of us.\

There are 16M Mormons, how many will die from vax? Not my problem, RMN's problem. My problem is me and my wife (some responsibility for my children but they flew the coop years ago). That is MY problem. I am not praying to find out what the LDS community should do. I'm praying for me and mine. RMN doesn't even know who I am, he cannot pray for me as an individual. Even if he could that would mean not praying for the other 16M, or giving only a nano-second to my issue. The answer to my prayers, by THE SPIRIT, is not what RMN or the wise government and medical men (and women) say. But, for you it is different. Go with it. Go in peace. But, don't try to preach to me what the spirit wants me and mine to do. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

Now I know you didn't say this and our church leaders haven't said it either, but there have been other religious groups who have gotten believers to partake of something they know is harmful to them, and even deadly, but it is counted unto them as righteousness. In fact, this is kind of the mentality Chad Daybell and crew seem to have developed.

I can't think of a single instance in the scriptures where someone is told by the Lord to harm themselves or kill themselves for the glory of god or a blessing in heaven or added righteousness, etc. Like I said, I don't think we as a church are doing that, but we are getting uncomfortably too close to the idea that it is good for you to take the vaccine, even if it kills you, because that shows our devotion and faith. I sure hope no one in the church starts thinking that way.

[Gadianton Slayer]

@Gadianton Slayer is right about their assertions on authority.

Think on Moroni 6:6

“And they did meet together oft to partake of bread and wine, in remembrance of the Lord Jesus.“

Where did we decide that “oft” means once a week? I think it’s more along the lines of verse 8...

“But as oft as they repented and sought forgiveness, with real intent, they were forgiven.“

It’s something I’m going to ponder on more.

I’m going to be taking the sacrament with red grape juice and unleavened bread for the first time this weekend I feel the symbolism is significant.

[larsenb]

Heads up y’all - please stay on topic.

If you want to talk about how awesome of a former member you are, start your own thread for that.

Love that sense of humor.

[TheDuke]

I didn't mean to imply such egregious misuse of power. Simply that honestly following orders from any appointed to lead is a solid defense for the rank-and-file in any organization (business, religion, military). And I do believe with all my heart that those who honestly try to do their best and in that process find themselves prone to or working very hard to follow the prophet, will indeed be blessed. Now I say this because I believe the 15 are not satanic, or evil, or malicious. I think they are either at times guided by the spirit, looking beyond the mark, looking at the big picture (saving the masses at the expense of a few, like a general in a losing battle), a bit lost in pride, or misunderstanding what the have been told, or reusing the last revelation (like Abraham with Pharaoh on his second trip south into Egypt.) That is not the same as telling someone to harm themselves or drink the koolaid.

[TheDuke]

So, is it on or off topic to discuss being a great former member if I get exed for complaining about Covid policies? haha

[larsenb]

. . . .

Now I know you didn't say this and our church leaders haven't said it either, but there have been other religious groups who have gotten believers to partake of something they know is harmful to them, and even deadly, but it is counted unto them as righteousness. In fact, this is kind of the mentality Chad Daybell and crew seem to have developed.

I can't think of a single instance in the scriptures where someone is told by the Lord to harm themselves or kill themselves for the glory of god or a blessing in heaven or added righteousness, etc. Like I said, I don't think we as a church are doing that, but we are getting uncomfortably too close to the idea that it is good for you to take the vaccine, even if it kills you, because that shows our devotion and faith. I sure hope no one in the church starts thinking that way.

The real demarcation line for me will be when they start supporting such things as vacciine passports and all the awful freedom-destroying restrictions that can and will imply.

Restricting BYU university attendance, is bad enough, though, and a step in the direction of vaccine passports.

[Chip]

...So, you should simply "follow the prophet". If you do you will be blessed. Even if you die from the Vax, it will be accounted unto you as a blessing. Like the children of Moses, a lower law, but live it any you shall "live"...

But the prophet is using NWO language and repeating their lies. Why would God bless us for going along with that? It seems to me that we would be cursed for following such obvious wrongness.

As it says, "if you ask for that which is not expedient, it will be to your condemnation." Or something like that. Maybe you're praying for things that the Holy Ghost has already warned you against. It's like Joseph praying repeatedly for permission to lend Martin Harris the BoM transcript. As a Mormon, it's hard to break from the programming that the leaders are infallible.

[iWriteStuff]

So, is it on or off topic to discuss being a great former member if I get exed for complaining about Covid policies? haha

That, sir, would be on topic!

Context is everything.

Carry on!

[buffalo_girl]

With all of this kindness, why am I falling apart and crying and wondering why we were scattered and taken from one tyrannical state only to be gathered back into the beast of tyranny under a new guise In another state.

We are still in the process of moving in to our home and I am ready to flee. But there is no where in this world to flee too.

Also,I am pretty sure the adage “kill them with kindness” may be happening here.

If you were scattered out of California, that's a good thing! My 9 years living in Utah was one trial of faith after another and that was decades ago.

Our Stake & Temple District have reinstated the 'mask' policy. I suppose our hymnals will be taken back, the Sacrament passed with 'social distancing', no hugging or handshaking allowed, Primary kids masked up and suffocating, and not being able to understand what people are saying 'behind the mask'.

This morning, my husband attended the funeral of a local crop plane flyer. Poor guy hit a high-tension power line while spraying a field. The funeral was at the local Baptist Church. There was standing room only and even those were pouring out the backdoor into the alley. I asked Chuck if everyone was wearing a mask. "No, they were not. And there had to have been several hundred people in attendance." He also told me they sang "Abide with Me" and "Amazing Grace". "Were there hymn books," I asked. "Yes, there were." After the service everyone returned to the church for a sit-down meal!

Another 'Super Spreader' event in the Dakotas, I guess. Let's keep an eye on statistics out of Linton, ND and Sturgis, SD!

[markharr]

I sure miss the days where the most contentious debate in a ward was where to have scout camp.

[jreuben]

I would have had no problems with masks if they had been used all of this time like the Japanese have used them. That is fine, but the hypocrisy level and utilization in the reasons for which they are now being used (with the lack of any degree of consideration of facts, data and actual scientific research) is unacceptable and demonstrates very, very bad things. These things are not acceptable by and for followers of Christ. And the ongoing reiteration of the questions regarding "why are we not using the priesthood to bless the sick whatever the sickness may be? Where is our faith" is so important! I was grateful that it was requested of me during this pandemonepic to go to a sick members' home and administer blessings to their family and to not wear masks. What a simple exercise of faith and for that I was blessed so much.

We are to be wise, but we are NOT to be faithless. Up has become down and so forth and again we see fulfillment of prophecy and we await much more terrible tribulation. He is coming!

[Lizzy60]

President Wirthlin will be needing his mask as he evacuates his home in Parleys Canyon this afternoon. Not for covid, but for smoke.

https://kjzz.com/news/local/fire-breaks ... eys-canyon

[marc]

Now it's official.

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[ransomme]

You pro-mRNA-vaxxers can have my vaccines.

They are of no worth to me.

So you're saying you're getting the J&J vax instead.

just-kidding-fred-armisen.gif

the DNA vaccines aren't any better they do the same thing with an extra step or two. At this point, if one is bent on getting vaxxed but for good reason are skeptical about the current lot of vaccines then they could wait for the Novavax version which is coming sooner rather than later.

Why do you call it a dna vaccine?

because they are "adenovirus DNA vectors". long story short, modified adenovirus DNA enters a cell's nucleus, which reads this DNA and makes RNA which then goes to the Ribosome which reads the RNA to make the spike protein. Like I said it is the same as the RNA vaccines with extrasteps. In the end, both use the ribosome to read RNA to produce the spike protein.

"Adenovirus-vectored vaccines are injected intramuscularly into the deltoid muscle where they infect muscle cells via clathrin-mediated endocytosis. The virions escape from endosomes and are transported to the nuclear membrane by microtubules. After docking on a nuclear pore complex, adenoviral DNA is released into the nucleus where the SARS-CoV-2 spike gene is transcribed into messenger RNA (mRNA). The mRNA is transported to the cytoplasm to be translated by ribosomes, making SARS-CoV-2 spike protein. Muscle cells around the injection site make lots of spike protein, which can be detected by immune cells in the tissue."

[marc]

“We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders”

I wonder why they didn't say, “We will win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders”

I mean, we still can win the war even if we don't follow the experts and leaders of Babylon.

[Gadianton Slayer]

“We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders”

I wonder why they didn't say, “We will win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders”

I mean, we still can win the war even if we don't follow the experts and leaders of Babylon.

And then there’s this gem:

“We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population.”

[HisWrathSoon]

Now it's official. 3.jpg

Demonic. Lots of validation for some of us. Sadly.

[Lizzy60]

Comment from a liberal progressive member at By Common Consent:
———————————————————-
One of HL Mencken’s favorite (not to mention funniest) topics was the stupidity of Americans, particularly of the rural variety. He could not have envisioned Internet-fueled stupidity, especially the QAnon variety. I have worried for many years that we’re too stupid to sustain a democracy. It’s a darn good thing that in the Church we have men who do the thinking for us!
————————————————————

[Willow]

This blog has several posts and comments on the subject. They don’t allow opposing views — they are liberal progressive LDS, but you can see the other side of the coin over there.

https://bycommonconsent.com/

This title reminds me of Medusa the Gorgon rather than Moses in the wilderness:

look_at_the_damn_snake.png

Link to this asininity: https://bycommonconsent.com/2021/08/12/ ... amn-snake/

Even more buffoonery: https://bycommonconsent.com/2021/08/12/ ... -response/

Somebody please email these idiotic authors and tell them to pull their heads out of this burning sand—my blood pressure can't take this anymore.

We're truly beginning to see the dividing of the wheat and the tares, of the wolves and the sheep—more so than ever before in our history. I'm beginning to truly understand how the prophets in the Book of Mormon felt as they witnessed the downfall of their society.

I am truly sickened after reading this article and so many of the comments. We are a divided people and the hate, lies, elitism and death wishes from members of our own church are beyond distressing.

My extended family is so divided it is heartbreaking. We have spent the past 3 months being told that family members couldn’t see us because they were in the process of getting the vaccine. Waiting for their appointment, waiting for the 4 weeks between shots and then waiting for the two weeks time period after they got their second vaccine when they are the most vulnerable to covid. Now we are being told that they can’t visit because their antibodies are wearing off and they need to wait for their appointment to get their booster. Oh and some are quarantining because they are going to Hawaii for two weeks. They all have had the vaccine and what is worse is that my family all had covid last year. I am so tired of being made to feel like we are lepers and that they are lofty elites. I am so tired of all of this.

Willow

[larsenb]

So you're saying you're getting the J&J vax instead.

just-kidding-fred-armisen.gif

the DNA vaccines aren't any better they do the same thing with an extra step or two. At this point, if one is bent on getting vaxxed but for good reason are skeptical about the current lot of vaccines then they could wait for the Novavax version which is coming sooner rather than later.

Why do you call it a dna vaccine?

because they are "adenovirus DNA vectors". long story short, modified adenovirus DNA enters a cell's nucleus, which reads this DNA and makes RNA which then goes to the Ribosome which reads the RNA to make the spike protein. Like I said it is the same as the RNA vaccines with extrasteps. In the end, both use the ribosome to read RNA to produce the spike protein.

"Adenovirus-vectored vaccines are injected intramuscularly into the deltoid muscle where they infect muscle cells via clathrin-mediated endocytosis. The virions escape from endosomes and are transported to the nuclear membrane by microtubules. After docking on a nuclear pore complex, adenoviral DNA is released into the nucleus where the SARS-CoV-2 spike gene is transcribed into messenger RNA (mRNA). The mRNA is transported to the cytoplasm to be translated by ribosomes, making SARS-CoV-2 spike protein. Muscle cells around the injection site make lots of spike protein, which can be detected by immune cells in the tissue."

Link to this paper/article?

[marc]

“We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders”

I wonder why they didn't say, “We will win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders”

I mean, we still can win the war even if we don't follow the experts and leaders of Babylon.

And then there’s this gem:

“We know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved by immunizing a very high percentage of the population.”

Or alternatively, "we know that protection from the diseases they cause can only be achieved...rather than will only be achieved..."

Using the word "can" isn't definitively reliable.

[Durzan]

In the end this message did cause me to really open up to prayer and try to overcome my own biases. After that I still feel I will not take vaccine. Having said that I feel comfortable that if-and-when local or other authorities strengthen their grip and either actually force me (and my wife) or practically force us, then I will consult the Lord again for an update. But, as of know it seems he will bless us with health regardless, either protect us from any terrible ravages of the virus or from the potentially worse ravages of this vaccine. At least this initial version. But, I would go the J&J route and skip the mRNA. Also, I would seek a PH blessing against the vaccine if I am forced to go that route.

Now I can sleep at night and no longer have to worry about COVID-19 or vaccine. Back to worrying about those stupid masks and wondering if I'll get to go to church in person again in my life time.

I would say my experience lines up a bit closer with yours than with what others have said here. Though my answer may have been a bit different.

[EmmaLee]

“This global elite, aided & abetted by indentured politicians, scientists, media moguls, and government bureaucrats, is maneuvering to use the current pandemic & economic meltdown to grab unprecedented power and wealth and impose…draconian surveillance, censorship, and control.”
-"The truth about Covid-19", by Dr. Joseph Mercola, Ronnie Cummins, and foreword by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

He forgot to include "global faith leaders" - some of them, such as our own FP/Twelve, are certainly aiding and abetting the global elite.

[Fred]

Now it's official. 3.jpg

I wonder how long they followed satan before they realized that God was not interested in talking to them? With no direction from Heaven, they decided to follow the leader of the world. They probably thought the members wouldn't notice.

[Alexander]

Now it's official. 3.jpg