LDS Freedom Forum

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:38 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:13 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:06 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:02 pm

Once again with the mind reading so let me be explicit - I have zero interest in trying to convince you that the church's truth claims are false. I have some experience with some advanced studies in cognitive development, learning, and biases. I'm no missionary here. I've just never actually engaged with this element of my (Mormon) tribe.

So, back to the topic - Other people are praying about the same exact thing as you. Other people believe that the Q15 were called and set apart as prophets, seers, and revelators, just like you seem to believe they were. Other people are getting different answers than you in response to those prayers as to the inspiration of of those prophets, seers, and revelators on this one topic (at least). The only thing you've offered me is "They're deceived and we aren't." That's it? You have no other reasoning to offer as to WHY you're right and they're wrong? This is a sincere question.

Yes, and I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting, Mr. fancy pants psychologist guy. I'm sure Freud, or any other one of your gods, could give you the psychoanalytical explanations you are so desperately looking for so you can feel oh so superior to those hackneyed religious folk.

You find us fascinating? I find you fascinating.

Actually, I said I did some advanced studies in that area. I never said I'm a psychologist; I'm not. I specifically said I have two degrees in business/finance areas.

Every single one of your responses has been an exercise in mind reading. Why do you do that?

Back to my question - Why do you think you are right and they are wrong? Can you expand on that?

Too many reasons to count, and that's not including prayer. Warm fuzzies doesn't always mean you're feeling the spirit, especially since information precedes revelation.

The church has been on a downward trend for quite some time, slowly embracing the ways of the world as the scriptures predicted. They're behaving as arrogantly as any fortune 500 business and they've demonstrated that they will go along to get along regardless of morals or doctrine. When they give us a blanket statement to trust the government while not mentioning God or scripture, we can see that's clearly what they're doing now.

Read Isaiah and what he says about the covenant with death. Read Revelation, especially regarding the vials, the seven Angels, and the mark, and you might understand, if you have any discernment, why the current events send chills up my spine.

I don't expect to convince you in one post, in fact you'll probably mock me. But if you really want to understand why we're very concerned, it will take hours of research and an open mind.

You say "Too many reasons to count" but you provide nothing else? I'm not looking for you to try to convince me, but you make these broad assertions with no specificity. Again, why are your answers more correct than your fellow-Saints?

And, for the record, please don't assume I've not read nor studied Isaiah and Revelations. Those are painfully faulty assumptions.

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:38 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:13 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:06 pm

Yes, and I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting, Mr. fancy pants psychologist guy. I'm sure Freud, or any other one of your gods, could give you the psychoanalytical explanations you are so desperately looking for so you can feel oh so superior to those hackneyed religious folk.

You find us fascinating? I find you fascinating.

Actually, I said I did some advanced studies in that area. I never said I'm a psychologist; I'm not. I specifically said I have two degrees in business/finance areas.

Every single one of your responses has been an exercise in mind reading. Why do you do that?

Back to my question - Why do you think you are right and they are wrong? Can you expand on that?

Too many reasons to count, and that's not including prayer. Warm fuzzies doesn't always mean you're feeling the spirit, especially since information precedes revelation.

The church has been on a downward trend for quite some time, slowly embracing the ways of the world as the scriptures predicted. They're behaving as arrogantly as any fortune 500 business and they've demonstrated that they will go along to get along regardless of morals or doctrine. When they give us a blanket statement to trust the government while not mentioning God or scripture, we can see that's clearly what they're doing now.

Read Isaiah and what he says about the covenant with death. Read Revelation, especially regarding the vials, the seven Angels, and the mark, and you might understand, if you have any discernment, why the current events send chills up my spine.

I don't expect to convince you in one post, in fact you'll probably mock me. But if you really want to understand why we're very concerned, it will take hours of research and an open mind.

You say "Too many reasons to count" but you provide nothing else? I'm not looking for you to try to convince me, but you make these broad assertions with no specificity. Again, why are your answers more correct than your fellow-Saints?

And, for the record, please don't assume I've not read nor studied Isaiah and Revelations. Those are painfully faulty assumptions.

Blah blah blah, you're clearly not sincere, just looking to argue. Go bark up a different tree.

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:38 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:13 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:06 pm

Yes, and I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting, Mr. fancy pants psychologist guy. I'm sure Freud, or any other one of your gods, could give you the psychoanalytical explanations you are so desperately looking for so you can feel oh so superior to those hackneyed religious folk.

You find us fascinating? I find you fascinating.

Actually, I said I did some advanced studies in that area. I never said I'm a psychologist; I'm not. I specifically said I have two degrees in business/finance areas.

Every single one of your responses has been an exercise in mind reading. Why do you do that?

Back to my question - Why do you think you are right and they are wrong? Can you expand on that?

Too many reasons to count, and that's not including prayer. Warm fuzzies doesn't always mean you're feeling the spirit, especially since information precedes revelation.

The church has been on a downward trend for quite some time, slowly embracing the ways of the world as the scriptures predicted. They're behaving as arrogantly as any fortune 500 business and they've demonstrated that they will go along to get along regardless of morals or doctrine. When they give us a blanket statement to trust the government while not mentioning God or scripture, we can see that's clearly what they're doing now.

Read Isaiah and what he says about the covenant with death. Read Revelation, especially regarding the vials, the seven Angels, and the mark, and you might understand, if you have any discernment, why the current events send chills up my spine.

I don't expect to convince you in one post, in fact you'll probably mock me. But if you really want to understand why we're very concerned, it will take hours of research and an open mind.

You say "Too many reasons to count" but you provide nothing else? I'm not looking for you to try to convince me, but you make these broad assertions with no specificity. Again, why are your answers more correct than your fellow-Saints?

And, for the record, please don't assume I've not read nor studied Isaiah and Revelations. Those are painfully faulty assumptions.

The book of Revelation does not have an “s” on Revelation. It’s Revelation, NOT Revelations. Tell us again how much you’ve read it.

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 7:42 am

markharr wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 7:33 am You pro-mRNA-vaxxers can have my vaccines.

They are of no worth to me.

So you're saying you're getting the J&J vax instead.

just-kidding-fred-armisen.gif

the DNA vaccines aren't any better they do the same thing with an extra step or two. At this point, if one is bent on getting vaxxed but for good reason are skeptical about the current lot of vaccines then they could wait for the Novavax version which is coming sooner rather than later.

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 7:30 am

ransomme wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 2:47 am

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 13th, 2021, 10:53 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑August 13th, 2021, 10:46 am
I hear blood clots really aren’t that bad anyway.

There's no reason to think the vax caused blood clots. People got bent out of shape because it looked like they had blood clots in 8 out of a million cases, instead of the 5 out of a million cases we see in the public. But there were too many variables that they couldn't account for (age, health history, etc) so it's pretty well accepted as not statistically significant at this point.

What? The vaccine makes the body produce the spike protein. Patients sick with that virus with that spike protein present with inflammation and thrombosis. These are some of the main issues in COVID-19. This is why the first protocols for treatment were antiinflammatories (corticosteroids) and blood thinners.

So of course it follows that the coronavirus vaccine may induce some of the same problems as a SARS-CoV-2 infection.

We have millions of people who've taken the vax, so there's a significant sample size. We simply haven't seen significant blood clot numbers among the vaxed.

Yes, the interplay between autoantibodies and increased white blood cells has caused blood clots among covid patients. But it isn't safe to assume that a vax would do the same thing. Since the spike proteins can't replicate from a vax, the body doesn't get overwhelmed and have to rush out a bunch of new white blood cells and the like over several days.

The adenovirus vector vaccines (DNA vaccines) cause a blood clotting reaction called vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia (VITT). VITT is caused by specific antibodies that are triggered by the vaccine and that stick to components from blood platelets causing them to trigger clot formation. It's not the spike protein itself, it is just a fact concerning adenovirus vector vaccines.

“The antibodies stick to the platelet protein called platelet factor 4 (PF4) in a very unique and specific orientation, which allows them to align with other antibodies and platelets in the precise formation that leads to a self-perpetuating vicious cycle of clotting events,” said Ishac Nazy, PhD, associate professor of medicine for the Michael G. DeGroote School of Medicine at McMaster University in Ontario, Canada. “These disease-causing aggregates quickly activate platelets, creating a highly intense clotting environment in patients,” he said.

If you're going to argue with a troll, then you have to use their own tactics against them. Otherwise ignore them.

TrueFaith wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:32 pm If you're going to argue with a troll, then you have to use their own tactics against them. Otherwise ignore them.

Ignore them in the first place, or take your fight to PM's. I have produce from the garden to process and time is short.

I will not go through every quoted-quoted-quoted-quote hoping to find a meaningful dialogue. No one is reading through these ridiculous spats.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:16 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:38 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:13 pm

Actually, I said I did some advanced studies in that area. I never said I'm a psychologist; I'm not. I specifically said I have two degrees in business/finance areas.

Every single one of your responses has been an exercise in mind reading. Why do you do that?

Back to my question - Why do you think you are right and they are wrong? Can you expand on that?

Too many reasons to count, and that's not including prayer. Warm fuzzies doesn't always mean you're feeling the spirit, especially since information precedes revelation.

The church has been on a downward trend for quite some time, slowly embracing the ways of the world as the scriptures predicted. They're behaving as arrogantly as any fortune 500 business and they've demonstrated that they will go along to get along regardless of morals or doctrine. When they give us a blanket statement to trust the government while not mentioning God or scripture, we can see that's clearly what they're doing now.

Read Isaiah and what he says about the covenant with death. Read Revelation, especially regarding the vials, the seven Angels, and the mark, and you might understand, if you have any discernment, why the current events send chills up my spine.

I don't expect to convince you in one post, in fact you'll probably mock me. But if you really want to understand why we're very concerned, it will take hours of research and an open mind.

You say "Too many reasons to count" but you provide nothing else? I'm not looking for you to try to convince me, but you make these broad assertions with no specificity. Again, why are your answers more correct than your fellow-Saints?

And, for the record, please don't assume I've not read nor studied Isaiah and Revelations. Those are painfully faulty assumptions.

The book of Revelation does not have an “s” on Revelation. It’s Revelation, NOT Revelations. Tell us again how much you’ve read it.

"Hello fellow mormons, I have come to educate you on why conspiracy theories are wrong. Revelationsssss??? I've read revelationsssss plenty of times, nothing to see here!"

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:16 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:38 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:13 pm

Actually, I said I did some advanced studies in that area. I never said I'm a psychologist; I'm not. I specifically said I have two degrees in business/finance areas.

Every single one of your responses has been an exercise in mind reading. Why do you do that?

Back to my question - Why do you think you are right and they are wrong? Can you expand on that?

Too many reasons to count, and that's not including prayer. Warm fuzzies doesn't always mean you're feeling the spirit, especially since information precedes revelation.

The church has been on a downward trend for quite some time, slowly embracing the ways of the world as the scriptures predicted. They're behaving as arrogantly as any fortune 500 business and they've demonstrated that they will go along to get along regardless of morals or doctrine. When they give us a blanket statement to trust the government while not mentioning God or scripture, we can see that's clearly what they're doing now.

Read Isaiah and what he says about the covenant with death. Read Revelation, especially regarding the vials, the seven Angels, and the mark, and you might understand, if you have any discernment, why the current events send chills up my spine.

I don't expect to convince you in one post, in fact you'll probably mock me. But if you really want to understand why we're very concerned, it will take hours of research and an open mind.

You say "Too many reasons to count" but you provide nothing else? I'm not looking for you to try to convince me, but you make these broad assertions with no specificity. Again, why are your answers more correct than your fellow-Saints?

And, for the record, please don't assume I've not read nor studied Isaiah and Revelations. Those are painfully faulty assumptions.

The book of Revelation does not have an “s” on Revelation. It’s Revelation, NOT Revelations. Tell us again how much you’ve read it.

Yep. Good catch. My bad on the typo. Thank you.

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:12 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:38 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:13 pm

Actually, I said I did some advanced studies in that area. I never said I'm a psychologist; I'm not. I specifically said I have two degrees in business/finance areas.

Every single one of your responses has been an exercise in mind reading. Why do you do that?

Back to my question - Why do you think you are right and they are wrong? Can you expand on that?

Too many reasons to count, and that's not including prayer. Warm fuzzies doesn't always mean you're feeling the spirit, especially since information precedes revelation.

The church has been on a downward trend for quite some time, slowly embracing the ways of the world as the scriptures predicted. They're behaving as arrogantly as any fortune 500 business and they've demonstrated that they will go along to get along regardless of morals or doctrine. When they give us a blanket statement to trust the government while not mentioning God or scripture, we can see that's clearly what they're doing now.

Read Isaiah and what he says about the covenant with death. Read Revelation, especially regarding the vials, the seven Angels, and the mark, and you might understand, if you have any discernment, why the current events send chills up my spine.

I don't expect to convince you in one post, in fact you'll probably mock me. But if you really want to understand why we're very concerned, it will take hours of research and an open mind.

You say "Too many reasons to count" but you provide nothing else? I'm not looking for you to try to convince me, but you make these broad assertions with no specificity. Again, why are your answers more correct than your fellow-Saints?

And, for the record, please don't assume I've not read nor studied Isaiah and Revelations. Those are painfully faulty assumptions.

Blah blah blah, you're clearly not sincere, just looking to argue. Go bark up a different tree.

Why can't you answer a simple question?

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:51 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:12 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:38 pm

Too many reasons to count, and that's not including prayer. Warm fuzzies doesn't always mean you're feeling the spirit, especially since information precedes revelation.

The church has been on a downward trend for quite some time, slowly embracing the ways of the world as the scriptures predicted. They're behaving as arrogantly as any fortune 500 business and they've demonstrated that they will go along to get along regardless of morals or doctrine. When they give us a blanket statement to trust the government while not mentioning God or scripture, we can see that's clearly what they're doing now.

Read Isaiah and what he says about the covenant with death. Read Revelation, especially regarding the vials, the seven Angels, and the mark, and you might understand, if you have any discernment, why the current events send chills up my spine.

I don't expect to convince you in one post, in fact you'll probably mock me. But if you really want to understand why we're very concerned, it will take hours of research and an open mind.

You say "Too many reasons to count" but you provide nothing else? I'm not looking for you to try to convince me, but you make these broad assertions with no specificity. Again, why are your answers more correct than your fellow-Saints?

And, for the record, please don't assume I've not read nor studied Isaiah and Revelations. Those are painfully faulty assumptions.

Blah blah blah, you're clearly not sincere, just looking to argue. Go bark up a different tree.

Why can't you answer a simple question?

Actually you’re the one who can’t answer a simple question in the other thread brother.

Just leave these people alone. Did you not see him ask you to bark up another tree?

You’re ruining the thread because you’re on these tangents that have huge assumptions built into them. It’s too messy.

Edit to add:
There we go. That was not a bad response on the other thread

buffalo_girl wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:41 pm

TrueFaith wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:32 pm If you're going to argue with a troll, then you have to use their own tactics against them. Otherwise ignore them.

Ignore them in the first place, or take your fight to PM's. I have produce from the garden to process and time is short.

I will not go through every quoted-quoted-quoted-quote hoping to find a meaningful dialogue. No one is reading through these ridiculous spats.

I fight my own fights, I don't run to authority when my feelings get hurt.

Don't read the spats then. Skip them. Personal Responsibility.

We live in a very kind ward but kindness doesn’t mean that the insanity of the world does not touch it.

Yesterday, our new stake president sent an email that mask are strongly urged among other things. This was said in a kind and gentle manner, but it was still said.

Today our kind and straight shooting Bishop sent an email that they will still have zoom church available to a select few who connect with the Bishop and explain why they are unable to attend Sacrament meeting. He then in the most kind way possible, sucker punched us followed by a strong upper cut as my husband put it. He said starting tomorrow that the general authorization to administer the Sacrament in your homes is rescinded. But with extreme kindness he lets us know that if we have a need to continue doing the Sacrament in our home to please contact him and he can help.

I am grateful to live in an area with so much kindness.

With all of this kindness, why am I falling apart and crying and wondering why we were scattered and taken from one tyrannical state only to be gathered back into the beast of tyranny under a new guise In another state.

We are still in the process of moving in to our home and I am ready to flee. But there is no where in this world to flee too.

Also,I am pretty sure the adage “kill them with kindness” may be happening here.

Willow

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm And, for the record, please don't assume I've not read nor studied Isaiah and Revelations. Those are painfully faulty assumptions.

Well I mean *bruh*, you're not even getting the name of the book right

"Revelation", not plural but singular - the single ultimate revelation "of Jesus Christ".

abijah` wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 2:24 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:07 pm And, for the record, please don't assume I've not read nor studied Isaiah and Revelations. Those are painfully faulty assumptions.

Well I mean *bruh*, you're not even getting the name of the book right

"Revelation", not plural but singular - the single ultimate revelation "of Jesus Christ".

Yeah, I know. I already admitted to my error, above.

Willow wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 2:13 pm We live in a very kind ward but kindness doesn’t mean that the insanity of the world does not touch it.

Yesterday, our new stake president sent an email that mask are strongly urged among other things. This was said in a kind and gentle manner, but it was still said.

Today our kind and straight shooting Bishop sent an email that they will still have zoom church available to a select few who connect with the Bishop and explain why they are unable to attend Sacrament meeting. He then in the most kind way possible, sucker punched us followed by a strong upper cut as my husband put it. He said starting tomorrow that the general authority to administer the Sacrament in your homes is rescinded. But with extreme kindness he lets us know that if we have a need to continue doing the Sacrament in our home to please contact him and he can help.

I am grateful to live in an area with so much kindness.

With all of this kindness, why am I falling apart and crying and wondering why we were scattered and taken from one tyrannical state only to be gathered back into the beast of tyranny under a new guise In another state.

We are still in the process of moving in to our home and I am ready to flee. But there is no where in this world to flee too.

Also,I am pretty sure the adage “kill them with kindness” may be happening here.

Willow

That is not kindness.

The authority to bless and administer sacrament is available to every elder (priest even) and cannot be taken away except in the case of unworthiness

Willow wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 2:13 pm We live in a very kind ward but kindness doesn’t mean that the insanity of the world does not touch it.

Yesterday, our new stake president sent an email that mask are strongly urged among other things. This was said in a kind and gentle manner, but it was still said.

Today our kind and straight shooting Bishop sent an email that they will still have zoom church available to a select few who connect with the Bishop and explain why they are unable to attend Sacrament meeting. He then in the most kind way possible, sucker punched us followed by a strong upper cut as my husband put it. He said starting tomorrow that the general authority to administer the Sacrament in your homes is rescinded. But with extreme kindness he lets us know that if we have a need to continue doing the Sacrament in our home to please contact him and he can help.

I am grateful to live in an area with so much kindness.

With all of this kindness, why am I falling apart and crying and wondering why we were scattered and taken from one tyrannical state only to be gathered back into the beast of tyranny under a new guise In another state.

We are still in the process of moving in to our home and I am ready to flee. But there is no where in this world to flee too.

Also,I am pretty sure the adage “kill them with kindness” may be happening here.

Willow

I’ve discussed this in another thread, there is no doctrinal basis for giving permission to perform ordinances. That is the fault of man and their power hungry authoritative desires.

ransomme wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:18 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 7:42 am

markharr wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 7:33 am You pro-mRNA-vaxxers can have my vaccines.

They are of no worth to me.

So you're saying you're getting the J&J vax instead.

just-kidding-fred-armisen.gif

the DNA vaccines aren't any better they do the same thing with an extra step or two. At this point, if one is bent on getting vaxxed but for good reason are skeptical about the current lot of vaccines then they could wait for the Novavax version which is coming sooner rather than later.

Why do you call it a dna vaccine?

Thank you for tuning in to this circus of a conversation...

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion...

“This global elite, aided & abetted by indentured politicians, scientists, media moguls, and government bureaucrats, is maneuvering to use the current pandemic & economic meltdown to grab unprecedented power and wealth and impose…draconian surveillance, censorship, and control.”
-"The truth about Covid-19", by Dr. Joseph Mercola, Ronnie Cummins, and foreword by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

It's all just silly. This was just simply a "we better do the "responsible" thing and tell everyone to do what all the health authorities are recommending." How are people so crazy thinking this is a "follow the prophet" thing? This is more a President of the Church thing. What is the purpose of a prophet? To point people to Christ. Encouraging people in a pandemic to wear a mask and get a shot is NOT a salvation issue. Take it or leave it. I'm ignoring their advice because I think it's all stupid. From the very beginning of the pandemic I've thought it was stupid. If I've never done any of this crap for any other scary virus out there, I'm not going to start now.

Willow wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 2:13 pm He said starting tomorrow that the general authority to administer the Sacrament in your homes is rescinded. But with extreme kindness he lets us know that if we have a need to continue doing the Sacrament in our home to please contact him and he can help.

More on this in the thread Sacrament at Home

They have no jurisdiction, follow the Spirit

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:50 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 1:16 pm The book of Revelation does not have an “s” on Revelation. It’s Revelation, NOT Revelations. Tell us again how much you’ve read it.

Yep. Good catch. My bad on the typo. Thank you.

It's a very common mistake, and in no way indicative of one's familiarity with the scripture.

Of course, Lizzy knows this. She was just being snide.

Well it is true the FP statement doesn't claim any revelation. It does just echo our wise government leaders. But, it is not being interpreted that way by the lower level GA's (like our area 70), it comes across as follow the prophet, though it was not given as prophecy. Folks like Renlund have taken it and berated people for not following counsel of the prophet, making his apostleship perspective that it is prophecy. Local leaders use it as a weapon against dissenters. It just seems like they don't understand.

And to answer Grunt's question. I don't question that the 15 have been called in an orderly fashion, or that they have the keys of administration. But, I have never blindly followed them. I spent much of this week praying hard (after months of praying gently) about their guidance. And it isn't what the Holy Spirit tells me. You ask why? Easy answer but you will not like it. The answer is the same reason why they gave up teaching milk and went to breast milk in Come Follow Me, why we read PR approved GC talks instead of scriptures like Isaiah or early prophetic teachings. It is because the rank-and-file Mormon needs it. That is what you need. You need to have breast milk pumped to you to survive. That is really ok, please don't be offended. We are all at different stages of progression, read KFD, Joseph's last sermon. We grow from small to great, line-upon-line. Most in the church today aren't ready for or worthy to participate in exaltation. Period, end, stop. Gone are the days when the church was small, many or most understood and studied the scriptures and the leaders dealt in deep doctrine and even touched the edges of the Mysteries of the Kingdom. As the church grew, and people came to it that were simpler, they also are pressing forward for salvation, maybe Terrestrial, maybe entry level Celestial, but not many of the new converts from around the world are actually ready to discuss exaltation. sure, how to live with god, how to inherit his love, how to be engulfed in his glory, but not how to become like god, or to have his godly attributes. It is ok, never has the majority of the church truly been ready for exaltation. One third part are fighting their way out of being a SoP, almost all the rest fighting to get out of the Telestial, few make it. Only a handful are truly preparing for exaltation, and those folks are capable receiving the spirit, praying and having the confidence of the Lord to see beyond the breast milk.

So, you should simply "follow the prophet". If you do you will be blessed. Even if you die from the Vax, it will be accounted unto you as a blessing. Like the children of Moses, a lower law, but live it any you shall "live". But, please stop berating those that are seeking more. It is our right to learn to live by the spirit and to do what god wants for each of us.\

There are 16M Mormons, how many will die from vax? Not my problem, RMN's problem. My problem is me and my wife (some responsibility for my children but they flew the coop years ago). That is MY problem. I am not praying to find out what the LDS community should do. I'm praying for me and mine. RMN doesn't even know who I am, he cannot pray for me as an individual. Even if he could that would mean not praying for the other 16M, or giving only a nano-second to my issue. The answer to my prayers, by THE SPIRIT, is not what RMN or the wise government and medical men (and women) say. But, for you it is different. Go with it. Go in peace. But, don't try to preach to me what the spirit wants me and mine to do. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

Heads up y’all - please stay on topic.

If you want to talk about how awesome of a former member you are, start your own thread for that.

@Willow I am sorry to hear of your plight. I am sorry but no one has the authority to remove or bestow keys and authority at this point if the Lord himself confirms that ordinances and administrations of the priesthood are valid for us. It's as simple as that and we will not only administer the sacrament in our family, but we will also ordain and perform other ordinances as the Spirit directs even if they are of the higher order found in the temple. No one in my family will go without the blessings of the priesthood because they are in full force by those who righteously hold and use it here. I have faith that the Lord will not only ratify our efforts and faith, but that He will come and make his abode with us during these difficult times and we shall be sealed up as per His promises.

I cannot help but to reflect on the state and likely feelings of Zechariah, his son John and even Jesus and his earthly parents during their day. I can't help but believe that it was very similar for them, just as it was similar for brother Joseph and even Martin Luther, but of course the time was not yet right for him to receive and restore the priesthood.

@hyloglyph I do not believe that anyone following the current course set forth by the church has the authority to forbid or take away any keys of the priesthood - and perhaps they never did have such authority. I think this all goes back to a more personal dealing with the Lord and why personal revelation and families have always been so pinnacle.

@Gadianton Slayer is right about their assertions on authority.

We need to be wise and trust real studies, science and doctors (and ABOVE ALL: PERSONAL REVELATION). I sincerely hope that we are ALL wrong and that these killshots don't kill those we love who've received them, but at this point there is too much alignment with what the church leadership is doing with fulfillment of prophecy regarding the tribulation of the last days and their persecution of true saints as well as the outline of Revelation.