LDS Freedom Forum

markharr wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 7:33 am You pro-mRNA-vaxxers can have my vaccines.

They are of no worth to me.

You have supposed, by taking refuge in deception
and hiding behind falsehoods,
to have covenanted with Death,
or reached an understanding with Sheol, that,
should a flooding scourge sweep through the earth,
it shall not reach you.
...

Your covenant with Death shall prove void,
your understanding with Sheol have no effect:
when the flooding scourge sweeps through,
you shall be overrun by it.

markharr wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 9:56 am It must have worked because after seeing empty chairs in the vaccine area of Costco for weeks, there is now a line as of this morning

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 8:22 am

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:07 am

jreuben wrote: ↑August 13th, 2021, 9:05 pm @AstonishingGrunt the thing you don't seem to get is how impenetrable our testimonies of the restoration, the priesthood and the other scriptures are. The thing we are all seeing is the fulfillment of Isaiah 28 and anyone who knows any degree of the scriptures and doctrine know that the church was preparatory for greater things. Just because the leaders have apostatized does not say anything about our testimonies of the core. Sadly nearly all self proclaimed "exmos" have insurmountable problems with their logic and spiritual faculties. Most of us here could ride you up one side and down the other of Mount Everest without batting an eye with regards to the meaningful things of the kingdom; both basic and "deep" doctrine (that is ALWAYS biblically based) as well as just simple spiritual tuning.

Oh good grief...while I very much doubt your bluster, I'm really here cheering on the group! I told you, I find all of this fascinating. Although, as I said before, I very much see you grooming and lining up to recruit. You, individually, are actually very much in the image of Joseph Smith; I know you'll take that as a compliment, but it really isn't.

Hey, are you the same "jreuben" user on Twitter who got run out of his job in Alaska for being a prolific racist Deznat poster? I mean, if so, I'm interacting with celebrity here, aren't I? That's sure something...on my first day and everything.

Oh, oh, while I have your attention, I'm sure you have some kind of answer for this, but I really want to see what it is...how do you deal with Wilford Woodruff's declaration from October 1890? You know, this one:

"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."

Now, granted, I don't actually believe anything these guys said actually came from a Deity, but you obviously do, so I'm curious what your apologetic defense is given your apparent certainty in your position relative to actions of the current First Presidency.

Your attempts at stirring the pot are falling flat because this forum isn't what you think it is. This is largely a dissident Mormon forum where it is generally agreed upon that prophet infallibility is wrong and has caused many problems within the church.

You seem to think that the Wilford Woodruff quote would really russels some jimmies, but it actually reinforces what many here believe to be a major problem, that is, the self-perpetuating cycle where leaders give themselves undue and false preeminence out of thin air, and then the members follow blindly. Half of the posters here question the legitimacy of Brigham Young as a prophet to begin with. Unlike the general body of the church, people here usually don't engage in prophet worship and instead focus more on the doctrine.

So you're confronting us with this 'surprising' news that the prophets have gone astray as if we don't already know that. This announcement comes as little surprise for most, that doesn't mean it isn't upsetting but it certainly confirms what most have expected: the business/ worldly side of the church has outstripped the original doctrine.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 6:51 am

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 13th, 2021, 6:00 pm Long-time Exmo here. Used to be pretty conservative politically in my true believing days, too. I just have to say, this is one of the most fascinating little petri dishes I've ever seen in terms of human psychology. This entire board is an exercise in bending LDS doctrine to fit a U.S.-Centric right-wing political worldview, but this one letter from the FP has generated more cognitive dissonance in 24 hours than someone like me could have caused by discussing the myriad of problems in church history in an entire lifetime. The night and day switch from "Follow the Prophet" when it suited your political arguments to "The Prophet is Fallen" as soon as it doesn't is whip-lash inducing.

Carry on...I'm truly fascinated to watch this play out. That jreuben guy, though, is a little concerning to me; he seems about 10 minutes away from starting his own cult.

May I suggest just one book? https://www.amazon.com/Malignant-Pied-P ... 204&sr=8-1

I hate to say it, but this place seems ripe for someone to exploit all this fear.

You obviously haven’t been on the forum very long. I had another account 5-6 years ago, things are different yet similar. We still question any action / statement of a church leader.

I’m curious, what fear are you referring to?

jreuben wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 11:01 am @AstonishingGrunt you may not be aware but most communists are capitalists, at least the ones who are successful and are not the run of the mill grunt anarchists. And they married into very wealthy conservative families during the very early 1900s so as to infiltrate essentially every successful or moderately successful to middle class American family at that time. Very well documented. They also own guns and love them - and use them. Everything you say does not preclude the very real possibility that @nightlight and others remarks are correct.

Your questions have been answered elsewhere. If you're not seeing them, please learn to use the search function.

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 10:57 am
What's with the mind reading? I explicitly said I wanted to hear how jreuben addressed the Woodruff quote because it's so widely utilized amongst the mainstream members of the church to justify obedience to the Q15. That's not a "russel some jimmies" effort. I wanted to hear the response.

Look, from my perspective, there are (at least) two things in play here: 1) all Mormons (including you) are cafeteria Mormons. You pick and choose what you like and discard what you don't. In this instance, you allow your political worldview to guide that process. You are already at a disadvantage to understand motivations because you assume that political worldview is guiding the process. I find that fascinating. 2) you are relying on what you perceive to be answers to prayer. I get it...I've been there. But, for me, it's additional evidence that such an approach to truth-seeking is demonstrably unreliable. You literally have people (elsewhere) saying they are getting confirmation from God that the FP's guidance is inspired, and yet here on this little island of the Internet it's the exact opposite. I am very curious how that gets reconciled in your minds. Why do you assume all would pray and get the same answer? That would require more of an explanation. God gives each the instructions they need. Lehi to the promised land, Jeremiah to stay and preach, Mulek to the promised land separate from Lehi's group. Daniel and his friends stay to be taken to Nebuchadnezzar's court. But, hey, if painting me as your enemy is part of that process for you, have at it. You're not hurting my feelings.

I do find it interesting that jreuben didn't answer my questions, but maybe you are his self appointed defenders...don't know.It is a public board. Everyone responds according to their own whims.

nightlight wrote: ↑August 13th, 2021, 10:21 am Turns out that I'm fighting for my job today because I won't get the vaccine......

Any advice?

UK: F.O.I request reveals adverse reactions to the Covid-19 injections are 17.5 times higher than adverse reactions to all other vaccines combined since 2010

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 10:57 am

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 8:22 am

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:07 am

jreuben wrote: ↑August 13th, 2021, 9:05 pm @AstonishingGrunt the thing you don't seem to get is how impenetrable our testimonies of the restoration, the priesthood and the other scriptures are. The thing we are all seeing is the fulfillment of Isaiah 28 and anyone who knows any degree of the scriptures and doctrine know that the church was preparatory for greater things. Just because the leaders have apostatized does not say anything about our testimonies of the core. Sadly nearly all self proclaimed "exmos" have insurmountable problems with their logic and spiritual faculties. Most of us here could ride you up one side and down the other of Mount Everest without batting an eye with regards to the meaningful things of the kingdom; both basic and "deep" doctrine (that is ALWAYS biblically based) as well as just simple spiritual tuning.

Oh good grief...while I very much doubt your bluster, I'm really here cheering on the group! I told you, I find all of this fascinating. Although, as I said before, I very much see you grooming and lining up to recruit. You, individually, are actually very much in the image of Joseph Smith; I know you'll take that as a compliment, but it really isn't.

Hey, are you the same "jreuben" user on Twitter who got run out of his job in Alaska for being a prolific racist Deznat poster? I mean, if so, I'm interacting with celebrity here, aren't I? That's sure something...on my first day and everything.

Oh, oh, while I have your attention, I'm sure you have some kind of answer for this, but I really want to see what it is...how do you deal with Wilford Woodruff's declaration from October 1890? You know, this one:

"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."

Now, granted, I don't actually believe anything these guys said actually came from a Deity, but you obviously do, so I'm curious what your apologetic defense is given your apparent certainty in your position relative to actions of the current First Presidency.

Your attempts at stirring the pot are falling flat because this forum isn't what you think it is. This is largely a dissident Mormon forum where it is generally agreed upon that prophet infallibility is wrong and has caused many problems within the church.

You seem to think that the Wilford Woodruff quote would really russels some jimmies, but it actually reinforces what many here believe to be a major problem, that is, the self-perpetuating cycle where leaders give themselves undue and false preeminence out of thin air, and then the members follow blindly. Half of the posters here question the legitimacy of Brigham Young as a prophet to begin with. Unlike the general body of the church, people here usually don't engage in prophet worship and instead focus more on the doctrine.

So you're confronting us with this 'surprising' news that the prophets have gone astray as if we don't already know that. This announcement comes as little surprise for most, that doesn't mean it isn't upsetting but it certainly confirms what most have expected: the business/ worldly side of the church has outstripped the original doctrine.

What's with the mind reading? I explicitly said I wanted to hear how jreuben addressed the Woodruff quote because it's so widely utilized amongst the mainstream members of the church to justify obedience to the Q15. That's not a "russel some jimmies" effort. I wanted to hear the response.

Look, from my perspective, there are (at least) two things in play here: 1) all Mormons (including you) are cafeteria Mormons. You pick and choose what you like and discard what you don't. In this instance, you allow your political worldview to guide that process. I find that fascinating. 2) you are relying on what you perceive to be answers to prayer. I get it...I've been there. But, for me, it's additional evidence that such an approach to truth-seeking is demonstrably unreliable. You literally have people (elsewhere) saying they are getting confirmation from God that the FP's guidance is inspired, and yet here on this little island of the Internet it's the exact opposite. I am very curious how that gets reconciled in your minds. But, hey, if painting me as your enemy is part of that process for you, have at it. You're not hurting my feelings.

I do find it interesting that jreuben didn't answer my questions, but maybe you are his self appointed defenders...don't know.

jreuben wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 11:17 am @AstonishingGrunt you truly are oblivious to reality. Not surprising, your regurgitation of non-original mainstream rhetoric only amplifies the light on this topic and you are clearly entirely out of your depth in history and precedent. At this time we're only in a pissing match and I don't do pissing matches.

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 11:45 am

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 10:57 am

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 8:22 am

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:07 am

Oh good grief...while I very much doubt your bluster, I'm really here cheering on the group! I told you, I find all of this fascinating. Although, as I said before, I very much see you grooming and lining up to recruit. You, individually, are actually very much in the image of Joseph Smith; I know you'll take that as a compliment, but it really isn't.

Hey, are you the same "jreuben" user on Twitter who got run out of his job in Alaska for being a prolific racist Deznat poster? I mean, if so, I'm interacting with celebrity here, aren't I? That's sure something...on my first day and everything.

Oh, oh, while I have your attention, I'm sure you have some kind of answer for this, but I really want to see what it is...how do you deal with Wilford Woodruff's declaration from October 1890? You know, this one:

"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."

Now, granted, I don't actually believe anything these guys said actually came from a Deity, but you obviously do, so I'm curious what your apologetic defense is given your apparent certainty in your position relative to actions of the current First Presidency.

Your attempts at stirring the pot are falling flat because this forum isn't what you think it is. This is largely a dissident Mormon forum where it is generally agreed upon that prophet infallibility is wrong and has caused many problems within the church.

You seem to think that the Wilford Woodruff quote would really russels some jimmies, but it actually reinforces what many here believe to be a major problem, that is, the self-perpetuating cycle where leaders give themselves undue and false preeminence out of thin air, and then the members follow blindly. Half of the posters here question the legitimacy of Brigham Young as a prophet to begin with. Unlike the general body of the church, people here usually don't engage in prophet worship and instead focus more on the doctrine.

So you're confronting us with this 'surprising' news that the prophets have gone astray as if we don't already know that. This announcement comes as little surprise for most, that doesn't mean it isn't upsetting but it certainly confirms what most have expected: the business/ worldly side of the church has outstripped the original doctrine.

What's with the mind reading? I explicitly said I wanted to hear how jreuben addressed the Woodruff quote because it's so widely utilized amongst the mainstream members of the church to justify obedience to the Q15. That's not a "russel some jimmies" effort. I wanted to hear the response.

Look, from my perspective, there are (at least) two things in play here: 1) all Mormons (including you) are cafeteria Mormons. You pick and choose what you like and discard what you don't. In this instance, you allow your political worldview to guide that process. I find that fascinating. 2) you are relying on what you perceive to be answers to prayer. I get it...I've been there. But, for me, it's additional evidence that such an approach to truth-seeking is demonstrably unreliable. You literally have people (elsewhere) saying they are getting confirmation from God that the FP's guidance is inspired, and yet here on this little island of the Internet it's the exact opposite. I am very curious how that gets reconciled in your minds. But, hey, if painting me as your enemy is part of that process for you, have at it. You're not hurting my feelings.

I do find it interesting that jreuben didn't answer my questions, but maybe you are his self appointed defenders...don't know.

I was only trying to help you understand the perspective that this forum is coming from, as you clearly have missed it. What I said should answer your question on behalf of almost anyone posting here regarding quotes like that.

Yes, we know that *literally* other people disagree that this message wasn't inspired. We can handle the idea that other people don't agree with us, its really not that big of a deal. The scriptures say many will be decieved in the last days. We are confident that we aren't the decieved ones, that's how we "reconcile" it.

I just hope you know that nothing you have brought up is remotely contraversial to anyone reading it; everything you have heretofore said has already been discussed ad nauseam. And before you bring it up, yes we have read the CES letter, yes we know about polygamy, yes we have heard of Mark Hoffman, etc. etc. etc. Really your posts are quite banal and, if you're going to do this, give us something original, thanks.

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 11:55 am

jreuben wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 11:17 am @AstonishingGrunt you truly are oblivious to reality. Not surprising, your regurgitation of non-original mainstream rhetoric only amplifies the light on this topic and you are clearly entirely out of your depth in history and precedent. At this time we're only in a pissing match and I don't do pissing matches.

Ohhhh, okay JR. Please enlighten little ol' naive me. You engage in quick dismissives as if you are the all-knowing when, in fact, you know absolutely nothing about me. You don't know my background. You don't know what I've investigated. You know very little about what I believe. Hell, you don't actually engage the substance of my commentary. You simply wave your hand and say "You are oblivious!" So let it be written, so let it be done, eh Pharaoh?

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:02 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 11:45 am

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 10:57 am

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 8:22 am

Your attempts at stirring the pot are falling flat because this forum isn't what you think it is. This is largely a dissident Mormon forum where it is generally agreed upon that prophet infallibility is wrong and has caused many problems within the church.

You seem to think that the Wilford Woodruff quote would really russels some jimmies, but it actually reinforces what many here believe to be a major problem, that is, the self-perpetuating cycle where leaders give themselves undue and false preeminence out of thin air, and then the members follow blindly. Half of the posters here question the legitimacy of Brigham Young as a prophet to begin with. Unlike the general body of the church, people here usually don't engage in prophet worship and instead focus more on the doctrine.

So you're confronting us with this 'surprising' news that the prophets have gone astray as if we don't already know that. This announcement comes as little surprise for most, that doesn't mean it isn't upsetting but it certainly confirms what most have expected: the business/ worldly side of the church has outstripped the original doctrine.

What's with the mind reading? I explicitly said I wanted to hear how jreuben addressed the Woodruff quote because it's so widely utilized amongst the mainstream members of the church to justify obedience to the Q15. That's not a "russel some jimmies" effort. I wanted to hear the response.

Look, from my perspective, there are (at least) two things in play here: 1) all Mormons (including you) are cafeteria Mormons. You pick and choose what you like and discard what you don't. In this instance, you allow your political worldview to guide that process. I find that fascinating. 2) you are relying on what you perceive to be answers to prayer. I get it...I've been there. But, for me, it's additional evidence that such an approach to truth-seeking is demonstrably unreliable. You literally have people (elsewhere) saying they are getting confirmation from God that the FP's guidance is inspired, and yet here on this little island of the Internet it's the exact opposite. I am very curious how that gets reconciled in your minds. But, hey, if painting me as your enemy is part of that process for you, have at it. You're not hurting my feelings.

I do find it interesting that jreuben didn't answer my questions, but maybe you are his self appointed defenders...don't know.

I was only trying to help you understand the perspective that this forum is coming from, as you clearly have missed it. What I said should answer your question on behalf of almost anyone posting here regarding quotes like that.

Yes, we know that *literally* other people disagree that this message wasn't inspired. We can handle the idea that other people don't agree with us, its really not that big of a deal. The scriptures say many will be decieved in the last days. We are confident that we aren't the decieved ones, that's how we "reconcile" it.

I just hope you know that nothing you have brought up is remotely contraversial to anyone reading it; everything you have heretofore said has already been discussed ad nauseam. And before you bring it up, yes we have read the CES letter, yes we know about polygamy, yes we have heard of Mark Hoffman, etc. etc. etc. Really your posts are quite banal and, if you're going to do this, give us something original, thanks.

Once again with the mind reading so let me be explicit - I have zero interest in trying to convince you that the church's truth claims are false. I have some experience with some advanced studies in cognitive development, learning, and biases. I'm no missionary here. I've just never actually engaged with this element of my (Mormon) tribe.

So, back to the topic - Other people are praying about the same exact thing as you. Other people believe that the Q15 were called and set apart as prophets, seers, and revelators, just like you seem to believe they were. Other people are getting different answers than you in response to those prayers as to the inspiration of of those prophets, seers, and revelators on this one topic (at least). The only thing you've offered me is "They're deceived and we aren't." That's it? You have no other reasoning to offer as to WHY you're right and they're wrong? This is a sincere question.

hyloglyph wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:03 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 11:55 am

jreuben wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 11:17 am @AstonishingGrunt you truly are oblivious to reality. Not surprising, your regurgitation of non-original mainstream rhetoric only amplifies the light on this topic and you are clearly entirely out of your depth in history and precedent. At this time we're only in a pissing match and I don't do pissing matches.

Ohhhh, okay JR. Please enlighten little ol' naive me. You engage in quick dismissives as if you are the all-knowing when, in fact, you know absolutely nothing about me. You don't know my background. You don't know what I've investigated. You know very little about what I believe. Hell, you don't actually engage the substance of my commentary. You simply wave your hand and say "You are oblivious!" So let it be written, so let it be done, eh Pharaoh?

Actually I’ve been reading along mr a grunt.

You have totally misrepresented what people believe.

You are talking past everyone. You write like you know the nuances of the religion but you don’t know the first thing even lol.

You are talking past everyone— either unable or unwilling to understand

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:06 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:02 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 11:45 am

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 10:57 am

What's with the mind reading? I explicitly said I wanted to hear how jreuben addressed the Woodruff quote because it's so widely utilized amongst the mainstream members of the church to justify obedience to the Q15. That's not a "russel some jimmies" effort. I wanted to hear the response.

Look, from my perspective, there are (at least) two things in play here: 1) all Mormons (including you) are cafeteria Mormons. You pick and choose what you like and discard what you don't. In this instance, you allow your political worldview to guide that process. I find that fascinating. 2) you are relying on what you perceive to be answers to prayer. I get it...I've been there. But, for me, it's additional evidence that such an approach to truth-seeking is demonstrably unreliable. You literally have people (elsewhere) saying they are getting confirmation from God that the FP's guidance is inspired, and yet here on this little island of the Internet it's the exact opposite. I am very curious how that gets reconciled in your minds. But, hey, if painting me as your enemy is part of that process for you, have at it. You're not hurting my feelings.

I do find it interesting that jreuben didn't answer my questions, but maybe you are his self appointed defenders...don't know.

I was only trying to help you understand the perspective that this forum is coming from, as you clearly have missed it. What I said should answer your question on behalf of almost anyone posting here regarding quotes like that.

Yes, we know that *literally* other people disagree that this message wasn't inspired. We can handle the idea that other people don't agree with us, its really not that big of a deal. The scriptures say many will be decieved in the last days. We are confident that we aren't the decieved ones, that's how we "reconcile" it.

I just hope you know that nothing you have brought up is remotely contraversial to anyone reading it; everything you have heretofore said has already been discussed ad nauseam. And before you bring it up, yes we have read the CES letter, yes we know about polygamy, yes we have heard of Mark Hoffman, etc. etc. etc. Really your posts are quite banal and, if you're going to do this, give us something original, thanks.

Once again with the mind reading so let me be explicit - I have zero interest in trying to convince you that the church's truth claims are false. I have some experience with some advanced studies in cognitive development, learning, and biases. I'm no missionary here. I've just never actually engaged with this element of my (Mormon) tribe.

So, back to the topic - Other people are praying about the same exact thing as you. Other people believe that the Q15 were called and set apart as prophets, seers, and revelators, just like you seem to believe they were. Other people are getting different answers than you in response to those prayers as to the inspiration of of those prophets, seers, and revelators on this one topic (at least). The only thing you've offered me is "They're deceived and we aren't." That's it? You have no other reasoning to offer as to WHY you're right and they're wrong? This is a sincere question.

Yes, and I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting, Mr. fancy pants psychologist guy. I'm sure Freud, or any other one of your gods, could give you the psychoanalytical explanations you are so desperately looking for so you can feel oh so superior to those hackneyed religious folk.

You find us fascinating? I find you fascinating.

jreuben wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:13 pm @AstonishingGrunt, take this to another thread. All you're doing is detracting from the topic and effort of those herein to discuss the topic at hand. You're not getting replies you want because you're simply irrelevant.

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:08 pm

hyloglyph wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:03 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 11:55 am

jreuben wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 11:17 am @AstonishingGrunt you truly are oblivious to reality. Not surprising, your regurgitation of non-original mainstream rhetoric only amplifies the light on this topic and you are clearly entirely out of your depth in history and precedent. At this time we're only in a pissing match and I don't do pissing matches.

Ohhhh, okay JR. Please enlighten little ol' naive me. You engage in quick dismissives as if you are the all-knowing when, in fact, you know absolutely nothing about me. You don't know my background. You don't know what I've investigated. You know very little about what I believe. Hell, you don't actually engage the substance of my commentary. You simply wave your hand and say "You are oblivious!" So let it be written, so let it be done, eh Pharaoh?

Actually I’ve been reading along mr a grunt.

You have totally misrepresented what people believe.

You are talking past everyone. You write like you know the nuances of the religion but you don’t know the first thing even lol.

You are talking past everyone— either unable or unwilling to understand

Very interesting that you think I have no understanding of the nuance of the faith I lived and studied for 40 years...how you know that is something of a mystery. Please educate me, then. What 'nuance' am I missing?

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:13 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:06 pm

AstonishingGrunt wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 12:02 pm

OPMissionary wrote: ↑August 14th, 2021, 11:45 am

I was only trying to help you understand the perspective that this forum is coming from, as you clearly have missed it. What I said should answer your question on behalf of almost anyone posting here regarding quotes like that.

Yes, we know that *literally* other people disagree that this message wasn't inspired. We can handle the idea that other people don't agree with us, its really not that big of a deal. The scriptures say many will be decieved in the last days. We are confident that we aren't the decieved ones, that's how we "reconcile" it.

I just hope you know that nothing you have brought up is remotely contraversial to anyone reading it; everything you have heretofore said has already been discussed ad nauseam. And before you bring it up, yes we have read the CES letter, yes we know about polygamy, yes we have heard of Mark Hoffman, etc. etc. etc. Really your posts are quite banal and, if you're going to do this, give us something original, thanks.

Once again with the mind reading so let me be explicit - I have zero interest in trying to convince you that the church's truth claims are false. I have some experience with some advanced studies in cognitive development, learning, and biases. I'm no missionary here. I've just never actually engaged with this element of my (Mormon) tribe.

So, back to the topic - Other people are praying about the same exact thing as you. Other people believe that the Q15 were called and set apart as prophets, seers, and revelators, just like you seem to believe they were. Other people are getting different answers than you in response to those prayers as to the inspiration of of those prophets, seers, and revelators on this one topic (at least). The only thing you've offered me is "They're deceived and we aren't." That's it? You have no other reasoning to offer as to WHY you're right and they're wrong? This is a sincere question.

Yes, and I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting, Mr. fancy pants psychologist guy. I'm sure Freud, or any other one of your gods, could give you the psychoanalytical explanations you are so desperately looking for so you can feel oh so superior to those hackneyed religious folk.

You find us fascinating? I find you fascinating.

Actually, I said I did some advanced studies in that area. I never said I'm a psychologist; I'm not. I specifically said I have two degrees in business/finance areas.

Every single one of your responses has been an exercise in mind reading. Why do you do that?

Back to my question - Why do you think you are right and they are wrong? Can you expand on that?