First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

[franklinbluth]

I mean government mandates. What is political about delineating what happens at church? Is it political for them to buy folding chairs? Why is this political?

So since purchasing folding chairs isn't political, nothing is? Or since the brethren can delineate what happens at church, nothing they do is political? Doesn't seem to make any sense at all. But I suspect this is just another move the goalposts moment.

No, it means that we should be able to know what is political without reference to anyone else. The government doesn't get to decide what is political. We define it. Talking about vaccines, without saying that they should be government mandated, is not political.

I see.. so what is political is subjective, not objective. What nonsense.

Context and motive define what is political, not your own subjective idea about it. When the church ramps up their rhetoric against racism in conjunction with it becoming a political hot button in the culture at large, it is political. It doesn't matter how you feel about their words or how you feel about racism.


When the church tells people to vax in the context of a massive campaign by world governments to get people vaxxed, it is political. It doesn't matter how you feel about it or how you define it.

When behavior changes and it coincides with public political pressure, it is political.

No, exactly the opposite. What is political is absolute. It does not change with what the government is talking about that week.

So if the government says drugs are bad, we should hand that issue over to them? I don't want to be a government tool, so I better not talk to my kids about drugs. I mean, in the current context of the government talking about drugs, I can't talk about it myself.

Again, the government doesn't get to decide what is political. Don't look to the government first to decide what a think is.

[franklinbluth]

Don't let politics poison your life. Too many people these days are so defined by politics that they cannot abide saying something (even something true!) just because their political opponents also said it.

You called me a Trumpster yesterday.

I mean... was I wrong?

It's a good thing you aren't a field goal kicker. You move those goal posts so fast you would never know where to kick.

I said that people would inherently reject things just because their opponents said it. You responded "But you called me a Trumpsters!" What in the world does that have to do with what I said?

[TheDuke]

Franklin: then why did CDC say to reduce the PCR cycles after much research on the day of (plus or minus 48 hours, as I cannot recall all that happened that week) of Biden's inauguration day, so that the next month they had lower numbers? Why would they send a memo (one memo to all) to reduce them as Fauci and CDC did? I think you are cherry picking notes.

[Serragon]

So since purchasing folding chairs isn't political, nothing is? Or since the brethren can delineate what happens at church, nothing they do is political? Doesn't seem to make any sense at all. But I suspect this is just another move the goalposts moment.

No, it means that we should be able to know what is political without reference to anyone else. The government doesn't get to decide what is political. We define it. Talking about vaccines, without saying that they should be government mandated, is not political.

I see.. so what is political is subjective, not objective. What nonsense.

Context and motive define what is political, not your own subjective idea about it. When the church ramps up their rhetoric against racism in conjunction with it becoming a political hot button in the culture at large, it is political. It doesn't matter how you feel about their words or how you feel about racism.


When the church tells people to vax in the context of a massive campaign by world governments to get people vaxxed, it is political. It doesn't matter how you feel about it or how you define it.

When behavior changes and it coincides with public political pressure, it is political.

No, exactly the opposite. What is political is absolute. It does not change with what the government is talking about that week.

So if the government says drugs are bad, we should hand that issue over to them? I don't want to be a government tool, so I better not talk to my kids about drugs. I mean, in the current context of the government talking about drugs, I can't talk about it myself.

Again, the government doesn't get to decide what is political. Don't look to the government first to decide what a think is.

Goalposts moved again.

No one is arguing that you can't say the same thing the government is saying or you become a tool. But when you are praising the people doing the mandating and telling people they are wise and thoughtful and that they should be followed it is political. This isn't hard to figure out.

When BLM forms and starts rioting all over the country and fierce political pressure arises and then the church sends out an apostle to give a speech with "Black Lives Matter" as the logo, you are being political. Again, this isn't hard to figure out. It isn't buying folding chairs. It isn't saying drugs cause harm. It is political pandering pure and simple.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Franklin: then why did CDC say to reduce the PCR cycles after much research on the day of (plus or minus 48 hours, as I cannot recall all that happened that week) of Biden's inauguration day, so that the next month they had lower numbers? Why would they send a memo (one memo to all) to reduce them as Fauci and CDC did? I think you are cherry picking notes.

He’s not worth arguing with. You will run circles until your lungs explode, and he’ll still be sitting back in his chair counting bills with a smile.

Yes, I did imply that.

[franklinbluth]

No, it means that we should be able to know what is political without reference to anyone else. The government doesn't get to decide what is political. We define it. Talking about vaccines, without saying that they should be government mandated, is not political.

I see.. so what is political is subjective, not objective. What nonsense.

Context and motive define what is political, not your own subjective idea about it. When the church ramps up their rhetoric against racism in conjunction with it becoming a political hot button in the culture at large, it is political. It doesn't matter how you feel about their words or how you feel about racism.


When the church tells people to vax in the context of a massive campaign by world governments to get people vaxxed, it is political. It doesn't matter how you feel about it or how you define it.

When behavior changes and it coincides with public political pressure, it is political.

No, exactly the opposite. What is political is absolute. It does not change with what the government is talking about that week.

So if the government says drugs are bad, we should hand that issue over to them? I don't want to be a government tool, so I better not talk to my kids about drugs. I mean, in the current context of the government talking about drugs, I can't talk about it myself.

Again, the government doesn't get to decide what is political. Don't look to the government first to decide what a think is.

Goalposts moved again.

No one is arguing that you can't say the same thing the government is saying or you become a tool. But when you are praising the people doing the mandating and telling people they are wise and thoughtful and that they should be followed it is political. This isn't hard to figure out.

When BLM forms and starts rioting all over the country and fierce political pressure arises and then the church sends out an apostle to give a speech with "Black Lives Matter" as the logo, you are being political. Again, this isn't hard to figure out. It isn't buying folding chairs. It isn't saying drugs cause harm. It is political pandering pure and simple.

You're completely changing your argument.

You previously said "Context and motive define what is political, not your own subjective idea about it. When the church ramps up their rhetoric against racism in conjunction with it becoming a political hot button in the culture at large, it is political."

Now you're saying it's about praising people.

Your previous post was absolutely wrong and I'm glad you've changed your mind. Praising people is getting closer to political, but you're moving the goalposts. The cited things (including in the most recent post) has been saying that black lives matter, saying the vax is good, and stuff like that. Saying something unrelated to the government, even when other people are saying it, isn't political.

This is what I've always said. I'm not the one moving the goalposts.

[franklinbluth]

Franklin: then why did CDC say to reduce the PCR cycles after much research on the day of (plus or minus 48 hours, as I cannot recall all that happened that week) of Biden's inauguration day, so that the next month they had lower numbers? Why would they send a memo (one memo to all) to reduce them as Fauci and CDC did? I think you are cherry picking notes.

I'm saying they didn't say that at all. You're being lied to. Read the memo for yourself. I linked it above.

[larsenb]

I was watching this motivating, energizing, video, from a freedom-loving, freedom-fighting attorney (Thomas Renz), who loves G*d and his family, and is fighting this on several fronts, when my wife said, "did you hear what the church just put out"? Noooo.... How can they be so lost in all of this, in medical science, common law/constitutionally, and basic liberty/freedoms.

If they force this issue (and it's da** near as close as it can be), millions more won't return, and we'll look and wait for the Saviour in our own groups/neighborhoods/circles worshipping Him who is mighty to save.

ENOUGH OF THE FEAR!

Excellent 30 minute use of you time (SA interviewer has many excellent interviews with folks on the front lines):
https://jermwarfare.com/blog/thomas-renz-vaccines-vaers

(edited misspelling/added some additional context)

Just had to say, this guy (Thomas Renz) is incredible. I only wish I could get my file leaders to watch it. He defines the whole situation even to include how it is a battle between tyranny and freedom, good and evil, etc. I.e., he has waked up to a sense of our awful situation.

When in heavens name, are our dear leaders going to wake up to this situation? For crying out loud. We have the premier primer on those who propel us into these awful situations. We have been warned about them in our day.

I will be repeating this on my thread that delves into this mystery.

[Prana]

I’m sorry.

[Sirius]

That is my very point. they put restrictions on engaging in politics at church while at the same time using their church position and authority to engage in politics.

Pres. Nelson engages w/ the NAACP as the President of the Church and hands over funds. My local Bishop is not allowed to do the same for the local anti-abortion groups.

I think their instructions were pretty clear. Don't talk about politics at church. They didn't. The issue of donations and whatever is a separate question. I don't think they're saying that people can't talk about politics outside of the church, which is what they did.

When they write an official letter to all the members, when they publish that letter on all their websites, when they email that letter to every member whose email they have, that is CHURCH business. You cannot get any more CHURCH than that. It’s not like they were chatting to some folk at the grocery store.

Of you're talking about the vax, what's political about saying "Hey, get vaxed." They're not endorsing mandates or anything like that. I guess if you make everything about politics, then it would make it hard to abide by this guideline. But for most people, there's a whole lot of life that isn't about politics.

Uh, yeah they kind of are. When they are telling you to, "trust wise medical experts and government leaders". These are the same folks pushing for mandating. That alone goes against God's whole design. It's like I'm having flashbacks of the war in Heaven haha.

[Serragon]

I see.. so what is political is subjective, not objective. What nonsense.

Context and motive define what is political, not your own subjective idea about it. When the church ramps up their rhetoric against racism in conjunction with it becoming a political hot button in the culture at large, it is political. It doesn't matter how you feel about their words or how you feel about racism.


When the church tells people to vax in the context of a massive campaign by world governments to get people vaxxed, it is political. It doesn't matter how you feel about it or how you define it.

When behavior changes and it coincides with public political pressure, it is political.

No, exactly the opposite. What is political is absolute. It does not change with what the government is talking about that week.

So if the government says drugs are bad, we should hand that issue over to them? I don't want to be a government tool, so I better not talk to my kids about drugs. I mean, in the current context of the government talking about drugs, I can't talk about it myself.

Again, the government doesn't get to decide what is political. Don't look to the government first to decide what a think is.

Goalposts moved again.

No one is arguing that you can't say the same thing the government is saying or you become a tool. But when you are praising the people doing the mandating and telling people they are wise and thoughtful and that they should be followed it is political. This isn't hard to figure out.

When BLM forms and starts rioting all over the country and fierce political pressure arises and then the church sends out an apostle to give a speech with "Black Lives Matter" as the logo, you are being political. Again, this isn't hard to figure out. It isn't buying folding chairs. It isn't saying drugs cause harm. It is political pandering pure and simple.

You're completely changing your argument.

You previously said "Context and motive define what is political, not your own subjective idea about it. When the church ramps up their rhetoric against racism in conjunction with it becoming a political hot button in the culture at large, it is political."

Now you're saying it's about praising people.

Your previous post was absolutely wrong and I'm glad you've changed your mind. Praising people is getting closer to political, but you're moving the goalposts. The cited things (including in the most recent post) has been saying that black lives matter, saying the vax is good, and stuff like that. Saying something unrelated to the government, even when other people are saying it, isn't political.

This is what I've always said. I'm not the one moving the goalposts.

A plate of spaghetti looks straight to you, doesn't it?

[franklinbluth]

I think their instructions were pretty clear. Don't talk about politics at church. They didn't. The issue of donations and whatever is a separate question. I don't think they're saying that people can't talk about politics outside of the church, which is what they did.

When they write an official letter to all the members, when they publish that letter on all their websites, when they email that letter to every member whose email they have, that is CHURCH business. You cannot get any more CHURCH than that. It’s not like they were chatting to some folk at the grocery store.

Of you're talking about the vax, what's political about saying "Hey, get vaxed." They're not endorsing mandates or anything like that. I guess if you make everything about politics, then it would make it hard to abide by this guideline. But for most people, there's a whole lot of life that isn't about politics.

Uh, yeah they kind of are. When they are telling you to, "trust wise medical experts and government leaders". These are the same folks pushing for mandating. That alone goes against God's whole design. It's like I'm having flashbacks of the war in Heaven haha.

You think we shouldn't trust wise medical experts? Maybe listen to the dumb ones? Or wise government leaders?

Yes, this is just like the war in heaven. Saying "trust wise people" is exactly like not allowing people to sin. Totally the same.

[Gadianton Slayer]

When they write an official letter to all the members, when they publish that letter on all their websites, when they email that letter to every member whose email they have, that is CHURCH business. You cannot get any more CHURCH than that. It’s not like they were chatting to some folk at the grocery store.

Of you're talking about the vax, what's political about saying "Hey, get vaxed." They're not endorsing mandates or anything like that. I guess if you make everything about politics, then it would make it hard to abide by this guideline. But for most people, there's a whole lot of life that isn't about politics.

Uh, yeah they kind of are. When they are telling you to, "trust wise medical experts and government leaders". These are the same folks pushing for mandating. That alone goes against God's whole design. It's like I'm having flashbacks of the war in Heaven haha.

You think we shouldn't trust wise medical experts? Maybe listen to the dumb ones? Or wise government leaders?

Yes, this is just like the war in heaven. Saying "trust wise people" is exactly like not allowing people to sin. Totally the same.

Wise medical experts... like Dr Robert Malone?

[gkearney]

I knew this day would come. A day of decision for many of you.

[franklinbluth]

Of you're talking about the vax, what's political about saying "Hey, get vaxed." They're not endorsing mandates or anything like that. I guess if you make everything about politics, then it would make it hard to abide by this guideline. But for most people, there's a whole lot of life that isn't about politics.

Uh, yeah they kind of are. When they are telling you to, "trust wise medical experts and government leaders". These are the same folks pushing for mandating. That alone goes against God's whole design. It's like I'm having flashbacks of the war in Heaven haha.

You think we shouldn't trust wise medical experts? Maybe listen to the dumb ones? Or wise government leaders?

Yes, this is just like the war in heaven. Saying "trust wise people" is exactly like not allowing people to sin. Totally the same.

Wise medical experts... like Dr Robert Malone?

I mean, unless you have a longer version of the press release then me that names names, I think they're leaving it up to us.

[Rwp]

The very phrase "wise and thoughtful ... government leaders" is a contradiction.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Uh, yeah they kind of are. When they are telling you to, "trust wise medical experts and government leaders". These are the same folks pushing for mandating. That alone goes against God's whole design. It's like I'm having flashbacks of the war in Heaven haha.

You think we shouldn't trust wise medical experts? Maybe listen to the dumb ones? Or wise government leaders?

Yes, this is just like the war in heaven. Saying "trust wise people" is exactly like not allowing people to sin. Totally the same.

Wise medical experts... like Dr Robert Malone?

I mean, unless you have a longer version of the press release then me that names names, I think they're leaving it up to us.

Ah, but my medical experts don’t count because they encourage against the vax.

[TheDuke]

I understand there were three wise men (Fauci, Biden, Pelosi)

[EmmaLee]

I knew this day would come. A day of decision for many of you.

Not really. For many of us, we made our decision before the earth was formed. We still choose the same One.

[Gadianton Slayer]

I knew this day would come. A day of decision for many of you.

Not really. For many of us, we made our decision before the earth was formed. We still choose the same One.

It’s a day of awakening, feeling truth deep down.

[Sirius]

When they write an official letter to all the members, when they publish that letter on all their websites, when they email that letter to every member whose email they have, that is CHURCH business. You cannot get any more CHURCH than that. It’s not like they were chatting to some folk at the grocery store.

Of you're talking about the vax, what's political about saying "Hey, get vaxed." They're not endorsing mandates or anything like that. I guess if you make everything about politics, then it would make it hard to abide by this guideline. But for most people, there's a whole lot of life that isn't about politics.

Uh, yeah they kind of are. When they are telling you to, "trust wise medical experts and government leaders". These are the same folks pushing for mandating. That alone goes against God's whole design. It's like I'm having flashbacks of the war in Heaven haha.

You think we shouldn't trust wise medical experts? Maybe listen to the dumb ones? Or wise government leaders?

Yes, this is just like the war in heaven. Saying "trust wise people" is exactly like not allowing people to sin. Totally the same.

Your wise medical experts and government leaders are peddling mandating, force. Therefore they aren't wise at all. As I recall, Lucifer was wise enough to get a third to trust him. I'm sure you struggled with that event too. Sorry guys, no more feeding the weak troll.

[Rick Grimes]

Uh, yeah they kind of are. When they are telling you to, "trust wise medical experts and government leaders". These are the same folks pushing for mandating. That alone goes against God's whole design. It's like I'm having flashbacks of the war in Heaven haha.

You think we shouldn't trust wise medical experts? Maybe listen to the dumb ones? Or wise government leaders?

Yes, this is just like the war in heaven. Saying "trust wise people" is exactly like not allowing people to sin. Totally the same.

Wise medical experts... like Dr Robert Malone?

I mean, unless you have a longer version of the press release then me that names names, I think they're leaving it up to us.

You do indeed change definitions, play dumb, move goalposts, stretch reason beyond its limits, etc... you have lost credibility to your inane arguments.
I think you are either a paid employee for the church or worse, a delusional apologist that would defend even pedophilia if one of the leaders was caught molesting a child. I will pray for you sir. Members like you are especially dangerous because you arent loyal to God and Truth, you are loyal to men and institutions. People like yourself are truly a threat to us all.

[Chip]

My nephew declined a mission call to Ghana because he disagrees with the vaxxx mandate and figured he would just serve in the states, instead.

Tonight, he went to his dad with this church statement and said he was thinking about getting the vaxxx, after all.

P.S. From my friend...

"I think the vaccine is bad, too. It must not be at a serious enough level of wrong, or else the prophet would be taken out."

[franklinbluth]

Of you're talking about the vax, what's political about saying "Hey, get vaxed." They're not endorsing mandates or anything like that. I guess if you make everything about politics, then it would make it hard to abide by this guideline. But for most people, there's a whole lot of life that isn't about politics.

Uh, yeah they kind of are. When they are telling you to, "trust wise medical experts and government leaders". These are the same folks pushing for mandating. That alone goes against God's whole design. It's like I'm having flashbacks of the war in Heaven haha.

You think we shouldn't trust wise medical experts? Maybe listen to the dumb ones? Or wise government leaders?

Yes, this is just like the war in heaven. Saying "trust wise people" is exactly like not allowing people to sin. Totally the same.

Your wise medical experts and government leaders are peddling mandating, force. Therefore they aren't wise at all. As I recall, Lucifer was wise enough to get a third to trust him. I'm sure you struggled with that event too. Sorry guys, no more feeding the weak troll.

Yeah, can you believe these luciferians want to use the government to force people not to kill people, or force them to allow other people to use their websites? It's out of control!

[Gadianton Slayer]

Your wise medical experts and government leaders are peddling mandating, force. Therefore they aren't wise at all. As I recall, Lucifer was wise enough to get a third to trust him. I'm sure you struggled with that event too. Sorry guys, no more feeding the weak troll.

Hehe, reminds me...

Mosiah 11:7

Yea, and they also became idolatrous, because they were deceived by the vain and flattering words of the king and priests; for they did speak flattering things unto them.

Alma 46:10

Yea, we see that Amalickiah, because he was a man of cunning device and a man of many flattering words, that he led away the hearts of many people to do wickedly

Mosiah 26:6

For it came to pass that they did deceive many with their flattering words, who were in the church, and did cause them to commit many sins

Alma 30:47

But behold, it is better that thy soul should be lost than that thou shouldst be the means of bringing many souls down to destruction, by thy lying and by thy flattering words

Alma 50:35

and so stubborn were the people of Morianton, (being inspired by his wickedness and his flattering words) that a battle commenced between them

Helaman 1:7

therefore, he was about to flatter away those people to rise up in rebellion against their brethren.

Helaman 2:5

Therefore he did flatter them, and also Kishkumen, that if they would place him in the judgment-seat he would grant unto those who belonged to his band that they should be placed in power and authority among the people; therefore Kishkumen sought to destroy Helaman.

Helaman 13:28-29

Yea, ye will lift him up, and ye will give unto him of your substance; ye will give unto him of your gold, and of your silver, and ye will clothe him with costly apparel; and because he speaketh flattering words unto you, and he saith that all is well, then ye will not find fault with him.
O ye wicked and ye perverse generation.

3 Nephi 1:29

And there was also a cause of much sorrow among the Lamanites; for behold, they had many children who did grow up and began to wax strong in years, that they became for themselves, and were led away by some who were Zoramites, by their lyings and their flattering words, to join those Gadianton robbers.

Ether 8:2

And Jared rebelled against his father, and came and dwelt in the land of Heth. And it came to pass that he did flatter many people, because of his cunning words, until he had gained the half of the kingdom.
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I wonder... why was this added... certainly not because of its importance.