LDS Freedom Forum

Serragon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 4:57 pm As I have said before, the #1 concern for church leadership is public relations. This comes before your rights and your salvation. The church will on a regular basis sacrifice the individual for what they consider the good of the organization.

If we are not supposed to talk about politics at church, why are the brethren constantly engaging in it? They have no problem calling out imaginary white supremacists in order to score political brownie points. Or making statements in support of BLM (carefully drawing a distinction between the organization and movement of course). Or photo ops with NAACP and Muslims along with transfer of money. Or participating on political councils in the capacity as church leaders. Or thanking all world leaders for "keeping us safe!" (has RMN never read any history? I've never seen such a naive stance on world leaders). Or telling us that they are "wise and thoughtful".

But try and get some signatures to oppose abortion on church property? You will quickly see the hammer coming strait for you. Or even wear a button supporting a particular candidate? This is not "inclusive" and will quickly be stamped out with scary threats that our tax status is at stake (though all other church's seem to be able to engage in politics as much and often as they want).

Get in line. Stop thinking. Prayerfully consider things and take them to the Lord, but if the answers don't jive w/ the primary level doctrine and rhetoric coming from Salt Lake then try again until you get it right. By all means get personal revelation, but always measure that revelation by what the current church policies are. In this way you can be convinced that you aren't really a non-thinking automaton but are wise and have great spritual depth without ever having any risk of stepping outside the proscribed lines of the "covenant path".

I would have so much more respect if the brethren actively called out the authoritarian and Satanic methods of control being exerted by our rulers instead of sanctifying them. If you truly feel it wise and want to encourage people to vax, great. But this attitude towards government and those who occupy its positions of authority has me nauseous, and this shift towards globalism and collectivism has me very concerned.

The purpose of the church is to be a beacon and be different than the world. We are to draw souls out of the world to us. But it appears we have abandoned this for a vision where the church melds in with the world and becomes subservient to it. We then become ambassadors for the worldy doctrines while dressing them up to appear Christ like. Perhaps we can some a few small truths about the Gospel in this way, but it seems to be an absolute abandonment of the very purposes of the restoration. What we are moving towards is what we already had prior to the restoration.

BringerOfJoy wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:16 pm

TheDuke wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 4:25 pm rumors that those unvaxxed will not be allowed to pay tithes and offerings?

When Hell freezes over.

Oh, shoot. Did I just say a really bad swear word?

mcusick wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:18 pm Years ago, there was a Mormon Stories interview with one of the September 6--Paul Toscano maybe.

In it, they sort of joked that excommunication may be the highest ordinance that the church can offer.

If we aren't there yet, I think we are rapidly approaching a day when that will be true.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:20 pm

BringerOfJoy wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:16 pm

TheDuke wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 4:25 pm rumors that those unvaxxed will not be allowed to pay tithes and offerings?

When Hell freezes over.

Oh, shoot. Did I just say a really bad swear word?

You capitalized it, so it’s a place name, not a cuss word.

Sunain wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:07 pm

HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:43 pm Why don't members protest?

Because we'll be excommunicated.

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:20 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 4:57 pm As I have said before, the #1 concern for church leadership is public relations. This comes before your rights and your salvation. The church will on a regular basis sacrifice the individual for what they consider the good of the organization.

If we are not supposed to talk about politics at church, why are the brethren constantly engaging in it? They have no problem calling out imaginary white supremacists in order to score political brownie points. Or making statements in support of BLM (carefully drawing a distinction between the organization and movement of course). Or photo ops with NAACP and Muslims along with transfer of money. Or participating on political councils in the capacity as church leaders. Or thanking all world leaders for "keeping us safe!" (has RMN never read any history? I've never seen such a naive stance on world leaders). Or telling us that they are "wise and thoughtful".

But try and get some signatures to oppose abortion on church property? You will quickly see the hammer coming strait for you. Or even wear a button supporting a particular candidate? This is not "inclusive" and will quickly be stamped out with scary threats that our tax status is at stake (though all other church's seem to be able to engage in politics as much and often as they want).

Get in line. Stop thinking. Prayerfully consider things and take them to the Lord, but if the answers don't jive w/ the primary level doctrine and rhetoric coming from Salt Lake then try again until you get it right. By all means get personal revelation, but always measure that revelation by what the current church policies are. In this way you can be convinced that you aren't really a non-thinking automaton but are wise and have great spritual depth without ever having any risk of stepping outside the proscribed lines of the "covenant path".

I would have so much more respect if the brethren actively called out the authoritarian and Satanic methods of control being exerted by our rulers instead of sanctifying them. If you truly feel it wise and want to encourage people to vax, great. But this attitude towards government and those who occupy its positions of authority has me nauseous, and this shift towards globalism and collectivism has me very concerned.

The purpose of the church is to be a beacon and be different than the world. We are to draw souls out of the world to us. But it appears we have abandoned this for a vision where the church melds in with the world and becomes subservient to it. We then become ambassadors for the worldy doctrines while dressing them up to appear Christ like. Perhaps we can some a few small truths about the Gospel in this way, but it seems to be an absolute abandonment of the very purposes of the restoration. What we are moving towards is what we already had prior to the restoration.

I don't understand the comparison. They said don't talk about politics in church. And you bring up them talking about politics...... when they're not in church. What's the issue?

Serragon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:26 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:20 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 4:57 pm As I have said before, the #1 concern for church leadership is public relations. This comes before your rights and your salvation. The church will on a regular basis sacrifice the individual for what they consider the good of the organization.

If we are not supposed to talk about politics at church, why are the brethren constantly engaging in it? They have no problem calling out imaginary white supremacists in order to score political brownie points. Or making statements in support of BLM (carefully drawing a distinction between the organization and movement of course). Or photo ops with NAACP and Muslims along with transfer of money. Or participating on political councils in the capacity as church leaders. Or thanking all world leaders for "keeping us safe!" (has RMN never read any history? I've never seen such a naive stance on world leaders). Or telling us that they are "wise and thoughtful".

But try and get some signatures to oppose abortion on church property? You will quickly see the hammer coming strait for you. Or even wear a button supporting a particular candidate? This is not "inclusive" and will quickly be stamped out with scary threats that our tax status is at stake (though all other church's seem to be able to engage in politics as much and often as they want).

Get in line. Stop thinking. Prayerfully consider things and take them to the Lord, but if the answers don't jive w/ the primary level doctrine and rhetoric coming from Salt Lake then try again until you get it right. By all means get personal revelation, but always measure that revelation by what the current church policies are. In this way you can be convinced that you aren't really a non-thinking automaton but are wise and have great spritual depth without ever having any risk of stepping outside the proscribed lines of the "covenant path".

I would have so much more respect if the brethren actively called out the authoritarian and Satanic methods of control being exerted by our rulers instead of sanctifying them. If you truly feel it wise and want to encourage people to vax, great. But this attitude towards government and those who occupy its positions of authority has me nauseous, and this shift towards globalism and collectivism has me very concerned.

The purpose of the church is to be a beacon and be different than the world. We are to draw souls out of the world to us. But it appears we have abandoned this for a vision where the church melds in with the world and becomes subservient to it. We then become ambassadors for the worldy doctrines while dressing them up to appear Christ like. Perhaps we can some a few small truths about the Gospel in this way, but it seems to be an absolute abandonment of the very purposes of the restoration. What we are moving towards is what we already had prior to the restoration.

I don't understand the comparison. They said don't talk about politics in church. And you bring up them talking about politics...... when they're not in church. What's the issue?

That is my very point. they put restrictions on engaging in politics at church while at the same time using their church position and authority to engage in politics.

Pres. Nelson engages w/ the NAACP as the President of the Church and hands over funds. My local Bishop is not allowed to do the same for the local anti-abortion groups.

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:18 pm

nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:08 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:19 pm

nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:11 pm
I always go back to this:

Imagine a vaccine so safe you have to threatened and coerced into taking it all for a disease so dangerous you have to take a test to even know you have it.

From the beginning, this thing has been about as dangerous as a bad seasonal flu. Yet, businesses failed, people suffered, the economy took a nosedive and inflation has spiked due to the extreme reactionary lockdowns and policies our governments have enacted. We're being solicited a gene-altering interventional treatment that hasn't undergone long-term testing for side-effects.

And now our church, which is supposed to stand for eternal truth above all else is agreeing with and supporting and advocating these same illogical and dangerous recommendations. The majority in this case is wrong - the emperor has no clothes. Our church, at the very least, should be saying 'let everyone make their own health choices after studying carefully the facts'.

That is what you think. Most people absolutely disagree. They believe that 600K Americans died from it, far more than normally die from the flu. They don't believe that mRNA is gene altering, and never even enters the nucleus where it could alter genes. They think that most of the things in our modern world haven't gone through long term studies, so they don't mind putting wifi in their homes or using a cell phone all day or using a new kind of vax.

Pres. Nelson very obviously is part of the group that disagrees with you. If someone believes that covid has killed 600K people in just America, why is it illogical to promote preventative measures? Again, I'm sure you don't think it has killed 600K, and that's fine. But when someone does think that, doesn't it make sense for them to respond as if 600K people have died?

It's certainly hasn't resulted in the 2 million deaths in the US by last October which was what the faulty Imperial computer model from UK predicted.
If you remember, this model is what was cited to push for all these insane mask and lockdown policies. That program, described as spaghetti code, would give wildly different answers on different runs with just changing formatting options. It was labelled the single most devastating software mistake in history.

Also, it's well-known that the method used to classify a COVID death is dubious - a person would die and then they'd run a PCR test afterwards (PCR tests, with the over-recommended number of amplification cycles most commonly used, are useless in determining actual infection). A person could die of a stroke or heart attack and would, with results from a faulty PCR test, get counted as a COVID death. But these details are old news, talked about all last year and it gets tiring having to repeat it. They're still using the same methods. There's been perverse incentives for hospitals to classify a death as COVID-related because of how much more Medicaid reimburses COVID hospitals. It's a racket, and lies everywhere.

The model for what would happen if we did nothing said there would be more deaths than what we had.... after we did something?

And I don't think anyone using that model anymore, are they? We have more information now than we did, and we've updated the models accordingly. What does that have to do with trying to prevent more than the 600K already dead?

That isn't how covid deaths are counted. From the guidance for doctors:

If the patient was a confirmed COVID-19 case, but the cause of death was not related to COVID-19 nor did COVID-19 contribute to the death, how should the physician complete the death certificate?

If COVID-19 was unrelated to the cause of death and not a contributing factor, it should not be included in Part I or II of the death certificate.

https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/14 ... 0,694.html

nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:33 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:18 pm

nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:08 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:19 pm

That is what you think. Most people absolutely disagree. They believe that 600K Americans died from it, far more than normally die from the flu. They don't believe that mRNA is gene altering, and never even enters the nucleus where it could alter genes. They think that most of the things in our modern world haven't gone through long term studies, so they don't mind putting wifi in their homes or using a cell phone all day or using a new kind of vax.

Pres. Nelson very obviously is part of the group that disagrees with you. If someone believes that covid has killed 600K people in just America, why is it illogical to promote preventative measures? Again, I'm sure you don't think it has killed 600K, and that's fine. But when someone does think that, doesn't it make sense for them to respond as if 600K people have died?

It's certainly hasn't resulted in the 2 million deaths in the US by last October which was what the faulty Imperial computer model from UK predicted.
If you remember, this model is what was cited to push for all these insane mask and lockdown policies. That program, described as spaghetti code, would give wildly different answers on different runs with just changing formatting options. It was labelled the single most devastating software mistake in history.

Also, it's well-known that the method used to classify a COVID death is dubious - a person would die and then they'd run a PCR test afterwards (PCR tests, with the over-recommended number of amplification cycles most commonly used, are useless in determining actual infection). A person could die of a stroke or heart attack and would, with results from a faulty PCR test, get counted as a COVID death. But these details are old news, talked about all last year and it gets tiring having to repeat it. They're still using the same methods. There's been perverse incentives for hospitals to classify a death as COVID-related because of how much more Medicaid reimburses COVID hospitals. It's a racket, and lies everywhere.

The model for what would happen if we did nothing said there would be more deaths than what we had.... after we did something?

And I don't think anyone using that model anymore, are they? We have more information now than we did, and we've updated the models accordingly. What does that have to do with trying to prevent more than the 600K already dead?

That isn't how covid deaths are counted. From the guidance for doctors:

If the patient was a confirmed COVID-19 case, but the cause of death was not related to COVID-19 nor did COVID-19 contribute to the death, how should the physician complete the death certificate?

If COVID-19 was unrelated to the cause of death and not a contributing factor, it should not be included in Part I or II of the death certificate.

https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/14 ... 0,694.html

There's a big difference between how they're supposed to count causes of death and how the actually count them. Again, there has been a perverse incentive. Again, PCR test can have >90% inaccuracies.

Curious where you think is the best place to be on this spectrum:

dangerous/free - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - peace/slavery

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:32 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:26 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:20 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 4:57 pm As I have said before, the #1 concern for church leadership is public relations. This comes before your rights and your salvation. The church will on a regular basis sacrifice the individual for what they consider the good of the organization.

If we are not supposed to talk about politics at church, why are the brethren constantly engaging in it? They have no problem calling out imaginary white supremacists in order to score political brownie points. Or making statements in support of BLM (carefully drawing a distinction between the organization and movement of course). Or photo ops with NAACP and Muslims along with transfer of money. Or participating on political councils in the capacity as church leaders. Or thanking all world leaders for "keeping us safe!" (has RMN never read any history? I've never seen such a naive stance on world leaders). Or telling us that they are "wise and thoughtful".

But try and get some signatures to oppose abortion on church property? You will quickly see the hammer coming strait for you. Or even wear a button supporting a particular candidate? This is not "inclusive" and will quickly be stamped out with scary threats that our tax status is at stake (though all other church's seem to be able to engage in politics as much and often as they want).

Get in line. Stop thinking. Prayerfully consider things and take them to the Lord, but if the answers don't jive w/ the primary level doctrine and rhetoric coming from Salt Lake then try again until you get it right. By all means get personal revelation, but always measure that revelation by what the current church policies are. In this way you can be convinced that you aren't really a non-thinking automaton but are wise and have great spritual depth without ever having any risk of stepping outside the proscribed lines of the "covenant path".

I would have so much more respect if the brethren actively called out the authoritarian and Satanic methods of control being exerted by our rulers instead of sanctifying them. If you truly feel it wise and want to encourage people to vax, great. But this attitude towards government and those who occupy its positions of authority has me nauseous, and this shift towards globalism and collectivism has me very concerned.

The purpose of the church is to be a beacon and be different than the world. We are to draw souls out of the world to us. But it appears we have abandoned this for a vision where the church melds in with the world and becomes subservient to it. We then become ambassadors for the worldy doctrines while dressing them up to appear Christ like. Perhaps we can some a few small truths about the Gospel in this way, but it seems to be an absolute abandonment of the very purposes of the restoration. What we are moving towards is what we already had prior to the restoration.

I don't understand the comparison. They said don't talk about politics in church. And you bring up them talking about politics...... when they're not in church. What's the issue?

That is my very point. they put restrictions on engaging in politics at church while at the same time using their church position and authority to engage in politics.

Pres. Nelson engages w/ the NAACP as the President of the Church and hands over funds. My local Bishop is not allowed to do the same for the local anti-abortion groups.

I think their instructions were pretty clear. Don't talk about politics at church. They didn't. The issue of donations and whatever is a separate question. I don't think they're saying that people can't talk about politics outside of the church, which is what they did.

Chip wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:32 pm I think they are being blackmailed.

This is all just completely nonsensical and I don't believe they actually think that people are even going to go along with this. They must know that they are rapidly expending their credibility in large chunks now. They are wrecking the church.

Maybe we are on the cusp of seeing whatever it is that is hidden, perhaps evidence of Satanic Ritual Abuse involving children. What else could motivate them to do something this off-kilter?

Something mighty awful must have hold on them for this to be happening. I think many below the top are just church-broke and brainwashed, including Eyring Junior and certainly Wirthlin, but there has got to be something extraordinary happening at the top right now, unprecedented in the last 130 years.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:39 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:32 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:26 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:20 pm

I don't understand the comparison. They said don't talk about politics in church. And you bring up them talking about politics...... when they're not in church. What's the issue?

That is my very point. they put restrictions on engaging in politics at church while at the same time using their church position and authority to engage in politics.

Pres. Nelson engages w/ the NAACP as the President of the Church and hands over funds. My local Bishop is not allowed to do the same for the local anti-abortion groups.

I think their instructions were pretty clear. Don't talk about politics at church. They didn't. The issue of donations and whatever is a separate question. I don't think they're saying that people can't talk about politics outside of the church, which is what they did.

When they write an official letter to all the members, when they publish that letter on all their websites, when they email that letter to every member whose email they have, that is CHURCH business. You cannot get any more CHURCH than that. It’s not like they were chatting to some folk at the grocery store.

tribrac wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:45 pm Franklinbluth is such a fisherman.

But how many people without a symptom got tested? Very few because tests were limited and the testing places refused to test you if you didn't have a symptom.

But how many people had another illness and were pcr diagnosed as covid positive?

Feeling tired was a symptom....
Headaches.
Body aches.
Cough.
Runny nose.

Those symptoms could have come from any numver of ailments, but Having one of those symptoms allowed you to get tested and that is where the PCR "finds" trails of Covid.

Serragon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:26 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:20 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 4:57 pm As I have said before, the #1 concern for church leadership is public relations. This comes before your rights and your salvation. The church will on a regular basis sacrifice the individual for what they consider the good of the organization.

If we are not supposed to talk about politics at church, why are the brethren constantly engaging in it? They have no problem calling out imaginary white supremacists in order to score political brownie points. Or making statements in support of BLM (carefully drawing a distinction between the organization and movement of course). Or photo ops with NAACP and Muslims along with transfer of money. Or participating on political councils in the capacity as church leaders. Or thanking all world leaders for "keeping us safe!" (has RMN never read any history? I've never seen such a naive stance on world leaders). Or telling us that they are "wise and thoughtful".

But try and get some signatures to oppose abortion on church property? You will quickly see the hammer coming strait for you. Or even wear a button supporting a particular candidate? This is not "inclusive" and will quickly be stamped out with scary threats that our tax status is at stake (though all other church's seem to be able to engage in politics as much and often as they want).

Get in line. Stop thinking. Prayerfully consider things and take them to the Lord, but if the answers don't jive w/ the primary level doctrine and rhetoric coming from Salt Lake then try again until you get it right. By all means get personal revelation, but always measure that revelation by what the current church policies are. In this way you can be convinced that you aren't really a non-thinking automaton but are wise and have great spritual depth without ever having any risk of stepping outside the proscribed lines of the "covenant path".

I would have so much more respect if the brethren actively called out the authoritarian and Satanic methods of control being exerted by our rulers instead of sanctifying them. If you truly feel it wise and want to encourage people to vax, great. But this attitude towards government and those who occupy its positions of authority has me nauseous, and this shift towards globalism and collectivism has me very concerned.

The purpose of the church is to be a beacon and be different than the world. We are to draw souls out of the world to us. But it appears we have abandoned this for a vision where the church melds in with the world and becomes subservient to it. We then become ambassadors for the worldy doctrines while dressing them up to appear Christ like. Perhaps we can some a few small truths about the Gospel in this way, but it seems to be an absolute abandonment of the very purposes of the restoration. What we are moving towards is what we already had prior to the restoration.

I don't understand the comparison. They said don't talk about politics in church. And you bring up them talking about politics...... when they're not in church. What's the issue?

That is my very point. they put restrictions on engaging in politics at church while at the same time using their church position and authority to engage in politics.

Pres. Nelson engages w/ the NAACP as the President of the Church and hands over funds. My local Bishop is not allowed to do the same for the local anti-abortion groups.

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:43 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:39 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:32 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:26 pm

That is my very point. they put restrictions on engaging in politics at church while at the same time using their church position and authority to engage in politics.

Pres. Nelson engages w/ the NAACP as the President of the Church and hands over funds. My local Bishop is not allowed to do the same for the local anti-abortion groups.

I think their instructions were pretty clear. Don't talk about politics at church. They didn't. The issue of donations and whatever is a separate question. I don't think they're saying that people can't talk about politics outside of the church, which is what they did.

When they write an official letter to all the members, when they publish that letter on all their websites, when they email that letter to every member whose email they have, that is CHURCH business. You cannot get any more CHURCH than that. It’s not like they were chatting to some folk at the grocery store.

Of you're talking about the vax, what's political about saying "Hey, get vaxed." They're not endorsing mandates or anything like that. I guess if you make everything about politics, then it would make it hard to abide by this guideline. But for most people, there's a whole lot of life that isn't about politics.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:50 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:43 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:39 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:32 pm

I think their instructions were pretty clear. Don't talk about politics at church. They didn't. The issue of donations and whatever is a separate question. I don't think they're saying that people can't talk about politics outside of the church, which is what they did.

When they write an official letter to all the members, when they publish that letter on all their websites, when they email that letter to every member whose email they have, that is CHURCH business. You cannot get any more CHURCH than that. It’s not like they were chatting to some folk at the grocery store.

Of you're talking about the vax, what's political about saying "Hey, get vaxed." They're not endorsing mandates or anything like that. I guess if you make everything about politics, then it would make it hard to abide by this guideline. But for most people, there's a whole lot of life that isn't about politics.

They just mandated masks at church.

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:41 pm

Chip wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:32 pm I think they are being blackmailed.

This is all just completely nonsensical and I don't believe they actually think that people are even going to go along with this. They must know that they are rapidly expending their credibility in large chunks now. They are wrecking the church.

Maybe we are on the cusp of seeing whatever it is that is hidden, perhaps evidence of Satanic Ritual Abuse involving children. What else could motivate them to do something this off-kilter?

Something mighty awful must have hold on them for this to be happening. I think many below the top are just church-broke and brainwashed, including Eyring Junior and certainly Wirthlin, but there has got to be something extraordinary happening at the top right now, unprecedented in the last 130 years.

I'm sure you know that a majority of people are on board with the vax, including a majority of doctors, like Pres. Nelson. Why do you need to make up an explanation for them believing what most doctors believe? Why do you have to make up them being blackmailed? Are people so conceited that they cannot believe for a second that people would believe something different from themselves?

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:51 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:50 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:43 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:39 pm

When they write an official letter to all the members, when they publish that letter on all their websites, when they email that letter to every member whose email they have, that is CHURCH business. You cannot get any more CHURCH than that. It’s not like they were chatting to some folk at the grocery store.

Of you're talking about the vax, what's political about saying "Hey, get vaxed." They're not endorsing mandates or anything like that. I guess if you make everything about politics, then it would make it hard to abide by this guideline. But for most people, there's a whole lot of life that isn't about politics.

They just mandated masks at church.

I mean government mandates. What is political about delineating what happens at church? Is it political for them to buy folding chairs? Why is this political?

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:43 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:39 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:32 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:26 pm

That is my very point. they put restrictions on engaging in politics at church while at the same time using their church position and authority to engage in politics.

Pres. Nelson engages w/ the NAACP as the President of the Church and hands over funds. My local Bishop is not allowed to do the same for the local anti-abortion groups.

I think their instructions were pretty clear. Don't talk about politics at church. They didn't. The issue of donations and whatever is a separate question. I don't think they're saying that people can't talk about politics outside of the church, which is what they did.

When they write an official letter to all the members, when they publish that letter on all their websites, when they email that letter to every member whose email they have, that is CHURCH business. You cannot get any more CHURCH than that. It’s not like they were chatting to some folk at the grocery store.

Of you're talking about the vax, what's political about saying "Hey, get vaxed." They're not endorsing mandates or anything like that. I guess if you make everything about politics, then it would make it hard to abide by this guideline. But for most people, there's a whole lot of life that isn't about politics.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:20 pm

BringerOfJoy wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:16 pm

TheDuke wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 4:25 pm rumors that those unvaxxed will not be allowed to pay tithes and offerings?

When Hell freezes over.

Oh, shoot. Did I just say a really bad swear word?

You capitalized it, so it’s a place name, not a cuss word.

Chip wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:52 pm

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:41 pm

Chip wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 5:32 pm I think they are being blackmailed.

This is all just completely nonsensical and I don't believe they actually think that people are even going to go along with this. They must know that they are rapidly expending their credibility in large chunks now. They are wrecking the church.

Maybe we are on the cusp of seeing whatever it is that is hidden, perhaps evidence of Satanic Ritual Abuse involving children. What else could motivate them to do something this off-kilter?

Something mighty awful must have hold on them for this to be happening. I think many below the top are just church-broke and brainwashed, including Eyring Junior and certainly Wirthlin, but there has got to be something extraordinary happening at the top right now, unprecedented in the last 130 years.

I'm sure you know that a majority of people are on board with the vax, including a majority of doctors, like Pres. Nelson. Why do you need to make up an explanation for them believing what most doctors believe? Why do you have to make up them being blackmailed? Are people so conceited that they cannot believe for a second that people would believe something different from themselves?

Another equivocating, sick liberal. You people are so distinct - not at all the norm, but an aberration. When Christ returns, nobody will be talking like you do.