LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:04 pm**

I agree, if church isn't safe w/o masks and if everyone there is vaxed, then they are likely asymptomatic carries, I should stay home. But the delta variant will pass, just in time for lambda, then the next, and next.......................

I don't fear being kicked out. I will pray and say what I feel is right to their faces. I will be polite and as kind as possible. I will ask simple questions, which if they answer I will consider what they say. But, if in the end they kick me out, then that must be the Lord's will. I will not quit, but am willing to be thrown out if that is the Lord's will.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:05 pm**

Catherine wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 1:42 pm Well I don't know what is worse for me today, prepping for my colonoscopy or hearing this news.

You get propofol tomorrow so that's an easy choice.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:09 pm**

HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:43 pm Why don't members protest?

Go to Eric Moutsos Health Freedom Rally.

2 dates

One, St G, Thurs 12 Aug, at Vernon Worthen park
Two, in SLC, not sure when, prob on Sat.

Patriotic. Supportive of church. It will be interesting given this new announcement, which comes after the rally was already planned. Bring all ur fam friends and neighbors.

I'm going to St G one today.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:10 pm**

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:11 pm**

franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:56 pm
nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:52 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:39 pm
nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:24 pm We have to get our own personal revelation, as Pres. Nelson counsels, to know whether they're speaking inspired counsel or not. As Joseph Smith taught,

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... h-1843/178

Given the doubtless intense pressure the first presidency and quorum are receiving from the church's legal team / PR department, in addition to the entangling alliances our church has with various international groups who are all lock-step on this issue, I think this is another instance of them speaking men instead of as prophets & apostles.

The dissenting opinion from numerous doctors seem to suggest masks do nothing for viruses and that the gene therapy injection may actually be making things worse.
We should never follow a course of action based merely on a majority consensus - it only takes one dissenting voice for all these arguments from every other source to be proven a waste of breath.

Everyone's entitled to receive their own personal confirmation.
Bull. The 15 tell Kirton & McConkie what to do and pay them big bucks.
I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. This is the best-case scenario I can come up with. Hubris may have something to do with it.
Why isn't "we simply disagree" immediately higher on people's lists? Why does everyone jump straight to "Everyone who disagrees with me is doing so for evil reasons." I mean, at this point, you know that most doctors and most people generally agree with what they're saying, right? Why is it so hard to think that they're in the majority of people who've looked at it and simply came to a different conclusion than you did?

I always go back to this:

Imagine a vaccine so safe you have to threatened and coerced into taking it all for a disease so dangerous you have to take a test to even know you have it.

From the beginning, this thing has been about as dangerous as a bad seasonal flu. Yet, businesses failed, people suffered, the economy took a nosedive and inflation has spiked due to the extreme reactionary lockdowns and policies our governments have enacted. We're being solicited a gene-altering interventional treatment that hasn't undergone long-term testing for side-effects.

And now our church, which is supposed to stand for eternal truth above all else is agreeing with and supporting and advocating these same illogical and dangerous recommendations. The majority in this case is wrong - the emperor has no clothes. Our church, at the very least, should be saying 'let everyone make their own health choices after studying carefully the facts'.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:12 pm**

nightowl wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:32 pm Really puts a strain on my faith tbh. I really hate they are taking this stance.

2 Nephi 28:31, this is where your faith should be.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:14 pm**

GüdFüdDude wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:09 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:43 pm Why don't members protest?
Go to Eric Moutsos Health Freedom Rally.

2 dates

One, St G, Thurs 12 Aug, at Vernon Worthen park
Two, in SLC, not sure when, prob on Sat.

Patriotic. Supportive of church. It will be interesting given this new announcement, which comes after the rally was already planned. Bring all ur fam friends and neighbors.

I'm going to St G one today.

I heard that at last rally too much cussing on stage by speakers. We are to gather with love not hate and cussing.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:18 pm**

Well here comes an additional round of fasting and praying. The middle ground gets smaller and smaller. I am not anti-vax per se, but something about all of this, since it all kicked off in March, has just felt wrong to me. I haven't specifically prayed to know if I should or shouldn't take the vaccine. I have prayed to have discernment and to be buoyed up in all this mess. I have just trusted that feeling. I will now need to seek after a confirmation.

But I think I may already have had my answer all along.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:19 pm**

nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:11 pm
franklinbluth wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:56 pm
nvr wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:52 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:39 pm

Bull. The 15 tell Kirton & McConkie what to do and pay them big bucks.
I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. This is the best-case scenario I can come up with. Hubris may have something to do with it.
Why isn't "we simply disagree" immediately higher on people's lists? Why does everyone jump straight to "Everyone who disagrees with me is doing so for evil reasons." I mean, at this point, you know that most doctors and most people generally agree with what they're saying, right? Why is it so hard to think that they're in the majority of people who've looked at it and simply came to a different conclusion than you did?
I always go back to this:

Imagine a vaccine so safe you have to threatened and coerced into taking it all for a disease so dangerous you have to take a test to even know you have it.

From the beginning, this thing has been about as dangerous as a bad seasonal flu. Yet, businesses failed, people suffered, the economy took a nosedive and inflation has spiked due to the extreme reactionary lockdowns and policies our governments have enacted. We're being solicited a gene-altering interventional treatment that hasn't undergone long-term testing for side-effects.

And now our church, which is supposed to stand for eternal truth above all else is agreeing with and supporting and advocating these same illogical and dangerous recommendations. The majority in this case is wrong - the emperor has no clothes. Our church, at the very least, should be saying 'let everyone make their own health choices after studying carefully the facts'.

That is what you think. Most people absolutely disagree. They believe that 600K Americans died from it, far more than normally die from the flu. They don't believe that mRNA is gene altering, and never even enters the nucleus where it could alter genes. They think that most of the things in our modern world haven't gone through long term studies, so they don't mind putting wifi in their homes or using a cell phone all day or using a new kind of vax.

Pres. Nelson very obviously is part of the group that disagrees with you. If someone believes that covid has killed 600K people in just America, why is it illogical to promote preventative measures? Again, I'm sure you don't think it has killed 600K, and that's fine. But when someone does think that, doesn't it make sense for them to respond as if 600K people have died?

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:21 pm**

EmmaLee wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:29 pm
Cruiserdude wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:14 pm “When ‘Mormonism’ finds favor with the wicked in this land, it will have gone into the shade; but until the power of the Priesthood is gone, ‘Mormonism’ will never become popular with the wicked.” (Brigham Young, JD 4:38, 31 August 1856)

“And when the spirit of persecution, the spirit of hatred, of wrath, and malice ceases in the world against this people, it will be the time that this people have apostatized and joined hands with the wicked, and never until then; which I pray may never come.” (Brigham Young, JD 4:326-327, 31 May 1857)
So if what he says is true, the power of the priesthood is now gone, and we, as a church, have apostatized. Might be the first time I've agreed with BY.

Thank you for the smile on this dismal day.

Willow

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:21 pm**

HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:14 pm
GüdFüdDude wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:09 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:43 pm Why don't members protest?
Go to Eric Moutsos Health Freedom Rally.

2 dates

One, St G, Thurs 12 Aug, at Vernon Worthen park
Two, in SLC, not sure when, prob on Sat.

Patriotic. Supportive of church. It will be interesting given this new announcement, which comes after the rally was already planned. Bring all ur fam friends and neighbors.

I'm going to St G one today.
I heard that at last rally too much cussing on stage by speakers. We are to gather with love not hate and cussing.

Apparently Bro. Joseph had a bit of a potty mouth on occasion.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:23 pm**

Robin Hood wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:21 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:14 pm
GüdFüdDude wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:09 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:43 pm Why don't members protest?
Go to Eric Moutsos Health Freedom Rally.

2 dates

One, St G, Thurs 12 Aug, at Vernon Worthen park
Two, in SLC, not sure when, prob on Sat.

Patriotic. Supportive of church. It will be interesting given this new announcement, which comes after the rally was already planned. Bring all ur fam friends and neighbors.

I'm going to St G one today.
I heard that at last rally too much cussing on stage by speakers. We are to gather with love not hate and cussing.
Apparently Bro. Joseph had a bit of a potty mouth on occasion.

Guilty

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:24 pm**

This is what the entrance to my chapel looks like.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:27 pm**

HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:14 pm
GüdFüdDude wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:09 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:43 pm Why don't members protest?
Go to Eric Moutsos Health Freedom Rally.

2 dates

One, St G, Thurs 12 Aug, at Vernon Worthen park
Two, in SLC, not sure when, prob on Sat.

Patriotic. Supportive of church. It will be interesting given this new announcement, which comes after the rally was already planned. Bring all ur fam friends and neighbors.

I'm going to St G one today.
I heard that at last rally too much cussing on stage by speakers. We are to gather with love not hate and cussing.

Not my experience with Eric's nonessential movie rallies. Been to 4 of them.

I always laugh and cry at exactly the same time. It feels wholesome. I think that's just how my patriotism emotions manifest.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:27 pm**

This is what the entrance to my chapel looks like.

Another one

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:28 pm**

I live in a state where our governor violated the rights of its citizens. Where one out of every four small businesses was destroyed at the hand of government officials and thousands were forced onto welfare where they never received assistance... and the church tells me to be compliant?

How do you feel about Kentucky Senator Rand Paul's appeal for the People of the United States and the World to refuse to comply with 'government mandates'?https://www.paul.senate.gov/fox-news-op ... se-freedom

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:29 pm**

Just ask these questions to anybody in opposition to freedom, it neutralizes everyone.

What is so tragic about death from coronavirus that it requires the massive response as compared to cancer deaths, car accidents, all other forms of death?

Follow up with, are deaths from virus's 100% preventable?

Are you willing to support locking up people that smoke because smoking causes cancer?

Will you stop using your computer because the materials used to manufacture your computer are derived from minerals and people die in mining accidents?

Are you willing to go without electricity because the deaths associated with electrical production?

I have found it to be really effective.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:31 pm**

GüdFüdDude wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:27 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:14 pm
GüdFüdDude wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:09 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:43 pm Why don't members protest?
Go to Eric Moutsos Health Freedom Rally.

2 dates

One, St G, Thurs 12 Aug, at Vernon Worthen park
Two, in SLC, not sure when, prob on Sat.

Patriotic. Supportive of church. It will be interesting given this new announcement, which comes after the rally was already planned. Bring all ur fam friends and neighbors.

I'm going to St G one today.
I heard that at last rally too much cussing on stage by speakers. We are to gather with love not hate and cussing.
Not my experience with Eric's nonessential movie rallies. Been to 4 of them.

I always laugh and cry at exactly the same time. It feels wholesome. I think that's just how my patriotism emotions manifest.

It is time for the digital soldiers to get off their behinds and act.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:33 pm**

Like many things, the church is often on the same path as the world, just lagging behind. And often the members like to pat themselves on their backs that they aren't as wicked as the world, but the reality is just that they are just slower getting there.

If the church follow a similar path, then we can expect first there to be encouragement, then incentives, then pressure/shaming, then granting extra privileges, then enforcing restrictions against those who don't comply. It goes from the carrot to the stick.

Will we see people only able to attend church and take the sacrament if they are vaccinated? Will only the vaccinated be able to attend the temple? I would think the Lord would be hotly displeased if the ordinances were refused to those that didn't follow government mandates. This hasn't happened yet, but this is what other groups are doing farther down the path.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:35 pm**

tribrac wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:41 pm Be still, my soul: The Lord is on thy side;
With patience bear thy cross of grief or pain.
Leave to thy God to order and provide;
In ev’ry change he faithful will remain.
Be still, my soul: Thy best, thy heav’nly Friend
Thru thorny ways leads to a joyful end.

Thank you for uplifting my spirit on this hard day.

Willow

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:37 pm**

"We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders."

wow.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:40 pm**

dwell_in_safety wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:37 pm "We can win this war if everyone will follow the wise and thoughtful recommendations of medical experts and government leaders."

wow.

What war? What about bracing us with spiritual warfare tactics? What about testifying of Christ and teaching us that we need a second baptism to be saved?

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:41 pm**

Once again, no mention of everyone who has NATURAL IMMUNITY.

Whatever.
I don't know why the church has to say anything about it, anyhow. Why not just let everyone decide for themselves? It's not a spiritual matter.
Whatever.
If my ward reinstates masks I guess they will have to find another primary teacher and I'll be back to home until this passes AGAIN.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:41 pm**

Robin Hood wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:21 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:14 pm
GüdFüdDude wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:09 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 2:43 pm Why don't members protest?
Go to Eric Moutsos Health Freedom Rally.

2 dates

One, St G, Thurs 12 Aug, at Vernon Worthen park
Two, in SLC, not sure when, prob on Sat.

Patriotic. Supportive of church. It will be interesting given this new announcement, which comes after the rally was already planned. Bring all ur fam friends and neighbors.

I'm going to St G one today.
I heard that at last rally too much cussing on stage by speakers. We are to gather with love not hate and cussing.
Apparently Bro. Joseph had a bit of a potty mouth on occasion.

Apparently it runs in the family.

Posted: **August 12th, 2021, 3:43 pm**

keeprunning wrote: ↑August 12th, 2021, 3:41 pm Once again, no mention of everyone who has NATURAL IMMUNITY.
Whatever.
I don't know why the church has to say anything about it, anyhow. Why not just let everyone decide for themselves? It's not a spiritual matter.
Whatever.
If my ward reinstates masks I guess they will have to find another primary teacher and I'll be back to home until this passes AGAIN.

Our ward reinstated masks, and I'm not going again either. My husband and I both decided we are no longer wearing masks. I just can't do it anymore. I had more congestion while I was wearing it anyway. Once I took it off, my breathing improved.

LDS Freedom Forum

First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

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Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

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Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

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Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine

Re: First Presidency Urges Saints to Wear Masks and Take the Vaccine