Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

For discussion of secret combinations (political, economic, spiritual, religious, etc.) (Ether 8:18-25.)
User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13997

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by Niemand »

I think sometimes we have to start with things that most people can accept and understand. For some people, telling them about Bilderbergers etc is too intense... so it may be better to start with the fact that certain secret combinations are accepted by most people without realising it.

It is no secret anymore that the Mafia is real. But at one point decades ago, many people doubted the extent of its influence or even its very existence. It was hard to get people to stand up against the Mafia or testify against it. The Mafia has secret rituals when you enter it (as do many other crime gangs) - you burn a picture of Mary and take blood oaths. They also infiltrated goverment in Italy and bribed judges.

If people accept the existence of the Mafia, they accept the existence of a very real and dangerous secret combination and this should be pointed out to them. They will also accept that terrorist groups are secretive by nature.

A lot of westerners will also accept that criminals have influence over the Russian government. Apparently even in the tsar's day secret combinations had infiltrated the government. The Bolsheviks were also a secret combination and took over Russia and other countries (often by stealth).

I'd start from there. I also ask people basic questions like, 'do you think governments always tell the truth?" or whether companies have ever been involved in corruption. Any sensible person will know companies have been exposed and governments have lied.

They may find the more wild-sounding stuff a bit strong, but I think they have to be deprogrammed by pointing out obvious examples of secret combinations like the above, so they can at least reach a point where they can see how bad it is
Last edited by Niemand on August 30th, 2021, 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13997

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormn: Secret Combinations?

Post by Niemand »

Gadianton Slayer wrote: August 30th, 2021, 7:04 pm And then there’s the doctrinal side of things... because the church has a few different anti-Christ teachings that directly contradict the BoM.
That's a whole thread in itself. I know missionaries have been encouraged to chase after families and young peoole, when in reality every soul is valuable to God. Sometimes they have chased after rich people, yet we know poor people built the church. Most of the pioneers barely had a penny to their names.

User avatar
Cruiserdude
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5359
Location: SEKS

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by Cruiserdude »

Lineman1012 wrote: August 30th, 2021, 9:40 am Finally a thread that gets to the heart of the problem. Thank you so much for the added information, although I have kept up on most of it there were some new parts to add to the puzzle. Thinking about our awful situation brings Helaman 6:38 to mind as the Neophytes were in the same awful situation and didn’t realize it.


38 And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.


The line, “ … and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations” Is very unnerving when you think about those we know who donated and participated in our most recent election and the fraud that was perpetrated upon us.

Once awaken, how can we awaken others as so many “believe in their works and partake of their spoils”…? And so many are under the spell of msm? The only answer I know is to work like crazy to wake others and then prayer twice as hard for help from above.
Great post hermano 👍

User avatar
Gadianton Slayer
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6551
Location: A Sound Mind

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormn: Secret Combinations?

Post by Gadianton Slayer »

Niemand wrote: August 30th, 2021, 7:25 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: August 30th, 2021, 7:04 pm And then there’s the doctrinal side of things... because the church has a few different anti-Christ teachings that directly contradict the BoM.
That's a whole thread in itself. I know missionaries have been encouraged to chase after families and young peoole, when in reality every soul is valuable to God. Sometimes they have chased after rich people, yet we know poor people built the church. Most of the pioneers barely had a penny to their names.
The mission field is another thread too haha.

I was serving earlier this year, out for 5 months, got sent home because I refused to wear a mask.

User avatar
mudflap
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3224
Location: The South
Contact:

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by mudflap »

larsenb wrote: July 25th, 2021, 2:08 pm Most of us have probably read it multiple times
I lost track - I think I'm in the 40's somewhere.

Good post.

Yes, we are neglecting the theme of the Book - I think Secret Combinations brought down 2 (Nephite , Jaredite) and maybe 3 civilizations - (Jerusalem after Lehi left. )

My thought is the Bible (Book of Revelation) is almost exclusively talking about events that will happen in the middle east, while the Book of Mormon is almost exclusively talking about events in America. War chapters of Alma and Mormon/Moroni are probably going to be extremely useful coming soon.

Beyond being an excellent testimony of Christ, the Book of Mormon contains an example (or several examples) of every type of human behavior you'll encounter - swindlers, liars, those seeking for power, honorable men, weasels, optimists, pessimists, doers, talkers, lazy people, hard working people, faithful people, passionate folks, patient folks, and on and on. It is an excellent guide on how to sort people out so you can make righteous judgments.

And anyone who thinks that the conspiring men in D&C 89 are just trying to get you to "drink beer" is extremely naïve, and doesn't understand what evil is.

HisWrathSoon
captain of 100
Posts: 827

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by HisWrathSoon »

God's condemnation was that they did not pursue the New and Everlasting Covenant taught in the B of M.

User avatar
Niemand
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13997

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by Niemand »

mudflap wrote: August 30th, 2021, 8:00 pm
larsenb wrote: July 25th, 2021, 2:08 pm Most of us have probably read it multiple times
I lost track - I think I'm in the 40's somewhere.

Good post.

Yes, we are neglecting the theme of the Book - I think Secret Combinations brought down 2 (Nephite , Jaredite) and maybe 3 civilizations - (Jerusalem after Lehi left. )

My thought is the Bible (Book of Revelation) is almost exclusively talking about events that will happen in the middle east, while the Book of Mormon is almost exclusively talking about events in America. War chapters of Alma and Mormon/Moroni are probably going to be extremely useful coming soon.

Beyond being an excellent testimony of Christ, the Book of Mormon contains an example (or several examples) of every type of human behavior you'll encounter - swindlers, liars, those seeking for power, honorable men, weasels, optimists, pessimists, doers, talkers, lazy people, hard working people, faithful people, passionate folks, patient folks, and on and on. It is an excellent guide on how to sort people out so you can make righteous judgments.

And anyone who thinks that the conspiring men in D&C 89 are just trying to get you to "drink beer" is extremely naïve, and doesn't understand what evil is.
If the USA falls it will bring down the world around about it. I think the reverse applies as well - the decline of Europe, Australia-New Zealand, and Japan-South Korea-Taiwan should all be concerns to the USA. I think Europe's decline is partly internal, but also partly due to some American cultural and political influences (woke culture, or the idea that its economic renewal is contingent on constant mass population influx). I also think China is far more of a risk than Russia (although the news claims the reverse.)

But it does leave the rest of us in a quandary. I don't live in either America or the Middle East, but feel affected by both. I tend to look at the BoM as a warning for our own personal faith journeys - we end up in rise and fall cycles if we're not careful. Some of the BoM and Revelation clearly refer to the world outside these places IMHO.

User avatar
mudflap
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3224
Location: The South
Contact:

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by mudflap »

HisWrathSoon wrote: August 30th, 2021, 8:19 pm God's condemnation was that they did not pursue the New and Everlasting Covenant taught in the B of M.
where do you find this?

User avatar
mudflap
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3224
Location: The South
Contact:

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by mudflap »

Niemand wrote: August 31st, 2021, 2:55 am
mudflap wrote: August 30th, 2021, 8:00 pm
larsenb wrote: July 25th, 2021, 2:08 pm Most of us have probably read it multiple times
I lost track - I think I'm in the 40's somewhere.

Good post.

Yes, we are neglecting the theme of the Book - I think Secret Combinations brought down 2 (Nephite , Jaredite) and maybe 3 civilizations - (Jerusalem after Lehi left. )

My thought is the Bible (Book of Revelation) is almost exclusively talking about events that will happen in the middle east, while the Book of Mormon is almost exclusively talking about events in America. War chapters of Alma and Mormon/Moroni are probably going to be extremely useful coming soon.

Beyond being an excellent testimony of Christ, the Book of Mormon contains an example (or several examples) of every type of human behavior you'll encounter - swindlers, liars, those seeking for power, honorable men, weasels, optimists, pessimists, doers, talkers, lazy people, hard working people, faithful people, passionate folks, patient folks, and on and on. It is an excellent guide on how to sort people out so you can make righteous judgments.

And anyone who thinks that the conspiring men in D&C 89 are just trying to get you to "drink beer" is extremely naïve, and doesn't understand what evil is.
If the USA falls it will bring down the world around about it. I think the reverse applies as well - the decline of Europe, Australia-New Zealand, and Japan-South Korea-Taiwan should all be concerns to the USA. I think Europe's decline is partly internal, but also partly due to some American cultural and political influences (woke culture, or the idea that its economic renewal is contingent on constant mass population influx). I also think China is far more of a risk than Russia (although the news claims the reverse.)

But it does leave the rest of us in a quandary. I don't live in either America or the Middle East, but feel affected by both. I tend to look at the BoM as a warning for our own personal faith journeys - we end up in rise and fall cycles if we're not careful. Some of the BoM and Revelation clearly refer to the world outside these places IMHO.
Living in New Zealand as a missionary, I was surprised at the amount of influence America has on the world- they watch "our news" channels, they are influence by our economy, the old timers talked about how the yanks saved them in WWII, etc.

Yes, I think the Book of Mormon is universally applicable and can be applied at a personal level, church level, country level, and global level. We are clearly living in a time when there is "intrigue in the government".

I was a little shocked when our sunday school teacher wanted to focus on the word "listen" in the D&C 45 lesson and spent about 15 minutes of our 40 minute class talking about it. Meanwhile, I was watching the clock slip away and wondering if he was going to get to the rest of the section talking about all the destruction we are heading towards. So when he asked if anyone had anything to add from their study of it, I sort of went off on what signs we should be watching for. The cycle of destruction clearly laid out in the Book of Mormon works almost like a law of physics - what goes up must come down. The corruption and evil in our government, along with the debt - clearly can't continue - we are headed for a great fall. Given the inputs, you can easily predict an outcome, based on the destruction that happened to the Book of Mormon people - over and over and over again.

HisWrathSoon
captain of 100
Posts: 827

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by HisWrathSoon »

mudflap wrote: August 31st, 2021, 6:15 am
HisWrathSoon wrote: August 30th, 2021, 8:19 pm God's condemnation was that they did not pursue the New and Everlasting Covenant taught in the B of M.
where do you find this?
Stated in the videos from the Doctrine of Christ YouTube channel. There's one on the New and Everlasting Covenant. And I just posted one the other day about best teaching of keys and authority. Taught in that one too.

simpleton
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3074

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by simpleton »

Why don't you fellows quit beating around the bush about why the church is silent about secret combinations. It is simply because we have joined forces and also love to enjoy the spoils, just as was quoted above:

And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites/LDS did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part/LDS Leaders of the righteous until they/LDS had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.
A more perfect description of us can not be found. We have joined with the combination, yes our leaders have joined, and probably joined many many years before we can imagine.
But oh no, how dare we suggest such an awful thing, yet it is verily true, and the sooner you realize it the better.
Isaiah spells it out along with others of the old timers but we flat out refuse to believe it.

Just this little snippet of Isaiah 28 ought to be as plain as plain can be:

14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

To me, that above covenant/agreement with death and hell is exactly the reason you do not hear anything about "secret combinations" in the church today.
Telling the lowly sheep that God approves of the vaccines, and that you are being a worthy Saint to partake of it is the height of lies and hypocrisy. Although there are many other wicked things done in the name of God also.

1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock. 4The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them. 5And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered. 6My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

7Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD; 8As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock; 9Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD; 10Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

Coming to pass very soon....

User avatar
mudflap
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3224
Location: The South
Contact:

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by mudflap »

HisWrathSoon wrote: August 31st, 2021, 7:47 am
mudflap wrote: August 31st, 2021, 6:15 am
HisWrathSoon wrote: August 30th, 2021, 8:19 pm God's condemnation was that they did not pursue the New and Everlasting Covenant taught in the B of M.
where do you find this?
Stated in the videos from the Doctrine of Christ YouTube channel. There's one on the New and Everlasting Covenant. And I just posted one the other day about best teaching of keys and authority. Taught in that one too.
Ok, sorry, I meant "in the scriptures" - Bible, BOM, D&C, PGP?

HisWrathSoon
captain of 100
Posts: 827

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by HisWrathSoon »

mudflap wrote: August 31st, 2021, 10:07 am
HisWrathSoon wrote: August 31st, 2021, 7:47 am
mudflap wrote: August 31st, 2021, 6:15 am
HisWrathSoon wrote: August 30th, 2021, 8:19 pm God's condemnation was that they did not pursue the New and Everlasting Covenant taught in the B of M.
where do you find this?
Stated in the videos from the Doctrine of Christ YouTube channel. There's one on the New and Everlasting Covenant. And I just posted one the other day about best teaching of keys and authority. Taught in that one too.
Ok, sorry, I meant "in the scriptures" - Bible, BOM, D&C, PGP?
These men present the Word of God in the videos.

User avatar
mudflap
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3224
Location: The South
Contact:

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by mudflap »

HisWrathSoon wrote: August 31st, 2021, 10:11 am
mudflap wrote: August 31st, 2021, 10:07 am
HisWrathSoon wrote: August 31st, 2021, 7:47 am
mudflap wrote: August 31st, 2021, 6:15 am

where do you find this?
Stated in the videos from the Doctrine of Christ YouTube channel. There's one on the New and Everlasting Covenant. And I just posted one the other day about best teaching of keys and authority. Taught in that one too.
Ok, sorry, I meant "in the scriptures" - Bible, BOM, D&C, PGP?
These men present the Word of God in the videos.
Sorry, still not buying it. share a specific scripture or you can't make the claim.

HisWrathSoon
captain of 100
Posts: 827

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by HisWrathSoon »

mudflap wrote: August 31st, 2021, 10:16 am
HisWrathSoon wrote: August 31st, 2021, 10:11 am
mudflap wrote: August 31st, 2021, 10:07 am
HisWrathSoon wrote: August 31st, 2021, 7:47 am

Stated in the videos from the Doctrine of Christ YouTube channel. There's one on the New and Everlasting Covenant. And I just posted one the other day about best teaching of keys and authority. Taught in that one too.
Ok, sorry, I meant "in the scriptures" - Bible, BOM, D&C, PGP?
These men present the Word of God in the videos.
Sorry, still not buying it. share a specific scripture or you can't make the claim.
How silly. Why would I waste my time when others have laid out truths far better than I can. Take the time to view their videos.

User avatar
mudflap
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3224
Location: The South
Contact:

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by mudflap »

HisWrathSoon wrote: August 31st, 2021, 10:20 am
mudflap wrote: August 31st, 2021, 10:16 am
HisWrathSoon wrote: August 31st, 2021, 10:11 am
mudflap wrote: August 31st, 2021, 10:07 am

Ok, sorry, I meant "in the scriptures" - Bible, BOM, D&C, PGP?
These men present the Word of God in the videos.
Sorry, still not buying it. share a specific scripture or you can't make the claim.
How silly. Why would I waste my time when others have laid out truths far better than I can. Take the time to view their videos.
If they present the word of God in their videos, it shouldn't take much to quote a little tiny scripture from them that supports their claim. Why should I waste my time with a video when you've already watched it and can just tell me what I want to know?

Or I guess you can continue to stonewall, which is highly suspicious....

User avatar
mudflap
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3224
Location: The South
Contact:

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by mudflap »

simpleton wrote: August 31st, 2021, 8:37 am Why don't you fellows quit beating around the bush about why the church is silent about secret combinations. It is simply because we have joined forces and also love to enjoy the spoils, just as was quoted above:

And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites/LDS did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part/LDS Leaders of the righteous until they/LDS had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.
A more perfect description of us can not be found. We have joined with the combination, yes our leaders have joined, and probably joined many many years before we can imagine.
But oh no, how dare we suggest such an awful thing, yet it is verily true, and the sooner you realize it the better.
Isaiah spells it out along with others of the old timers but we flat out refuse to believe it.

Just this little snippet of Isaiah 28 ought to be as plain as plain can be:

14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

To me, that above covenant/agreement with death and hell is exactly the reason you do not hear anything about "secret combinations" in the church today.
Telling the lowly sheep that God approves of the vaccines, and that you are being a worthy Saint to partake of it is the height of lies and hypocrisy. Although there are many other wicked things done in the name of God also.

1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock. 4The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them. 5And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered. 6My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

7Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD; 8As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock; 9Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD; 10Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

Coming to pass very soon....

yes. exactly. Thank you for quoting some scripture for us to chew on. :)

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10861
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

mudflap wrote: August 31st, 2021, 6:15 am
HisWrathSoon wrote: August 30th, 2021, 8:19 pm God's condemnation was that they did not pursue the New and Everlasting Covenant taught in the B of M.
where do you find this?


I believe "Connie" is referring to Isaiah 24.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... eng&ab=v01

CHAPTER 24

Men will transgress the law and break the everlasting covenant—At the Second Coming, they will be burned, the earth will reel, and the sun will be ashamed—Then the Lord will reign in Zion and in Jerusalem.

1 Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.

3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.

4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

7 The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.

8 The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.

9 They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.

10 The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.

11 There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.

12 In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.

13 ¶ When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done.

14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the Lord, they shall cry aloud from the sea.

15 Wherefore glorify ye the Lord in the fires, even the name of the Lord God of Israel in the isles of the sea.

16 ¶ From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.

17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.

19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before chis ancients gloriously.

User avatar
Luke
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10785
Location: England

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by Luke »

mudflap wrote: August 31st, 2021, 6:15 am
HisWrathSoon wrote: August 30th, 2021, 8:19 pm God's condemnation was that they did not pursue the New and Everlasting Covenant taught in the B of M.
where do you find this?
D&C 84
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received--
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written--
58 That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father's kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion.
59 For shall the children of the kingdom pollute my holy land? Verily, I say unto you, Nay.
Luke wrote: August 31st, 2021, 10:03 am The Church of Christ ceased to be in 1834:
  • “After prayer the Conference proceeded to discuss the subject of names and appellations, when a motion was made by Sidney Rigdon, and seconded by Newel K. Whitney, that this church be known hereafter by the name of THE CHURCH OF THE LATTER DAY SAINTS. Appropriate remarks were delivered by some of the members, after which the motion was put by the Moderator, and passed by unanimous voice.” (Minutes, 3 May 1834, pg. 160, JSP; DHC 2:62-63)
This happened just ten days after we had broken the everlasting covenant, which is Zion. (The following revelation was given 23 April 1834):
  • D&C 104
    52 The covenants being broken through transgression, by covetousness and feigned words--
    53 Therefore, you are dissolved as a united order with your brethren, that you are not bound only up to this hour unto them, only on this wise, as I said, by loan as shall be agreed by this order in council, as your circumstances will admit and the voice of the council direct.
Once we realise this, Church history will make more sense. It's why Joseph spends the rest of his days desperately trying to save the Church
  • Isaiah 24
    5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
  • JST/IV Genesis 9
    22 And this is mine everlasting covenant, that when thy posterity shall embrace the truth, and look upward, then shall Zion look downward, and all the heavens shall shake with gladness, and the earth shall tremble with joy;

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10861
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Also, in D&C 84:


D&C 84:54-57
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written— (September 23, 1832)


**EDIT***

Luke beat me to D&C 84

HisWrathSoon
captain of 100
Posts: 827

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by HisWrathSoon »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: August 31st, 2021, 1:15 pm Also, in D&C 84:


D&C 84:54-57
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written— (September 23, 1832)
We are under condemnation until we enter into the New and Everlasting Covenant which is the purpose of the Book of Mormon. When was the last time we heard that from a prophet or apostle?

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10861
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

HisWrathSoon wrote: August 31st, 2021, 1:17 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: August 31st, 2021, 1:15 pm Also, in D&C 84:


D&C 84:54-57
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written— (September 23, 1832)
We are under condemnation until we enter into the New and Everlasting Covenant which is the purpose of the Book of Mormon. When was the last time we heard that from a prophet or apostle?

Right. The Lord told the church that we have taken lightly the Book of Mormon. Even still today, our church leaders are disavowing doctrines taught within its pages to appease the world.
Last edited by InfoWarrior82 on August 31st, 2021, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HisWrathSoon
captain of 100
Posts: 827

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by HisWrathSoon »

InfoWarrior82 wrote: August 31st, 2021, 1:20 pm
HisWrathSoon wrote: August 31st, 2021, 1:17 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: August 31st, 2021, 1:15 pm Also, in D&C 84:


D&C 84:54-57
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written— (September 23, 1832)
We are under condemnation until we enter into the New and Everlasting Covenant which is the purpose of the Book of Mormon. When was the last time we heard that from a prophet or apostle?

Right. The Lord told the church that we have taken lightly the Book of Mormon. Even still today, our church leaders are disavowing doctrines taught within its pages.
Saving doctrines.

HisWrathSoon
captain of 100
Posts: 827

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by HisWrathSoon »

So we are not under condemnation for not reading the Book of Mormon or warning of secret combinations.

User avatar
InfoWarrior82
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 10861
Location: "There are 15 on the earth today, you can trust them completely." -President Nelson (Jan 2022)

Re: Condemnation due to neglecting a major theme of Book of Mormon: Secret Combinations?

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

HisWrathSoon wrote: August 31st, 2021, 1:17 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: August 31st, 2021, 1:15 pm Also, in D&C 84:


D&C 84:54-57
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written— (September 23, 1832)
We are under condemnation until we enter into the New and Everlasting Covenant which is the purpose of the Book of Mormon. When was the last time we heard that from a prophet or apostle?


The last time was President Benson:

https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/ ... mon-116135

A well-remembered hallmark of the presidency of President Ezra Taft Benson is his continuous and emphatic admonition to the Church at large not to treat lightly the Book of Mormon.

For example, at October 1986 general conference, he said:

"In 1832, as some early missionaries returned from their fields of labor, the Lord reproved them for treating the Book of Mormon lightly. As a result of that attitude, He said, their minds had been darkened. Not only had treating this sacred book lightly brought a loss of light to themselves, it had also brought the whole Church under condemnation, even all the children of Zion. And then the Lord said, 'And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon. (Doctrine and Covenants 84:54-57.)

"Has the fact that we have had the Book of Mormon with us for over a century and a half made it seem less significant to us today? Do we remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon? In the Bible we have the Old Testament and the New Testament. The word testament is the English rendering of a Greek word that can also be translated as covenant. Is this what the Lord meant when He called the Book of Mormon the 'new covenant'? It is indeed another testament or witness of Jesus. This is one of the reasons why we have recently added the words 'Another Testament of Jesus Christ' to the title of the Book of Mormon.

"If the early Saints were rebuked for treating the Book of Mormon lightly, are we under any less condemnation if we do the same? The Lord Himself bears testimony that it is of eternal significance. Can a small number of us bring the whole Church under condemnation because we trifle with sacred things? What will we say at the Judgment when we stand before Him and meet His probing gaze if we are among those described as forgetting the new covenant?"

Post Reply