Getting boatloads of B. of M. translation historical info., all showing faking was impossible.

[simpleton]

Ok. Kirtland keep em coming, but at this rate you will not even unload the first boat before the second one comes in, as you did say "boatloads".

[kirtland r.m.]

I mentioned an interesting experience with Thomas B. Marsh, an excommunicated apostle, in my last post. Later he came back to the church, and here is what happened.

He spent 18 years of his life outside the church. In 1857 Thomas traveled through Iowa and Nebraska. Wandle Mace, a faithful member of the church who helped build the Nauvoo Temple,[29] described him as “an old man, a stranger carrying a satchel and wearing a black waterproof coat to shield him from the storm [with a] palsied frame.” He also recorded what Thomas said was his greatest desire: “I want to die in the Church. Oh, if I could see Joseph, and talk with him and acknowledge my faults to him, and get his forgiveness from him and then I would die happy.”[30]

In the summer of 1857 Thomas B. Marsh migrated west, eventually making it to Salt Lake City. He arrived on 4 September 1857 and the next day visited Brigham Young, who later said, “He came into my office and wished to know whether I could be reconciled to him, and whether there could be a reconciliation between himself and the Church of the living God.”[31] When asked how his apostasy from the Church began, he reportedly said the following:

I have frequently wanted to know how my apostacy began, and I have come to the conclusion that I must have lost the Spirit of the Lord out of my heart. The next question is, “How and when did you lose the Spirit?” I became jealous of the Prophet, and then I saw double, and overlooked everything that was right, and spent all my time in looking for the evil; and then, when the Devil began to lead me, it was easy for the carnal mind to rise up, which is anger, jealousy, and wrath. I could feel it within me; I felt angry and wrathful; and the Spirit of the Lord being gone…I was blinded, and I thought I saw a beam in brother Joseph’s eye, but it was nothing but a mote, and my own eye was filled with the beam; but I thought I saw a beam in his, and I wanted to get it out; and, as brother Heber says, I got mad, and I wanted everybody else to be mad. I talked with Brother Brigham and Brother Heber, and I wanted them to be mad like myself; and I saw they were not mad, and I got madder still because they were not…Well, this is about the amount of my hypocrisy.[32]

Thomas B. Marsh was unanimously sustained back into full fellowship with the Saints and baptized on July 16, 1857. He was later reordained to the office of High Priest, and moved to Ogden, Utah where he lived until his death in January 1866.https://www.ldsscriptureteachings.org/2 ... and-notes/

[kirtland r.m.]

Here is a quote and a reference on the subject of Oliver Cowdrey I wrote about earlier.
Joseph Smith recorded that: Before Oliver Cowdery came to assist in the work of translation. Oliver Cowdery saw the plates. And Joseph Smith stated that the Lord “appeared unto a young man by the name of Oliver Cowdery and showed unto him the plates in a vision, and also the truth of the work, and what the Lord was about to do through me, his unworthy servant. Therefore, he was desirous to come and write for me, and translate.” (The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, ed. Dean C. Jessee, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1984, p. 8. Spelling and punctuation modernized.)
Next up will be Martin Harris.

[kirtland r.m.]

Oh I can't resist, here is a taste of the Cumorah part of this thread later on.

...Hugh Nibley points out in road to Cumorah. In a marginal note--just two words--about Mormon's description of Cumorah as "a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains," Nibley writes "spots"; "rock-pits." A few verses down comes another note: "Redoubt; Armaggeddon; Flanders." It is as though Hugh Nibley was scouting the area for Mormon, prior to the final battle. Something about the pockmarked, spotty nature of the landscape: rock-pits, fountains, and the criss-cross of watercourses, made of Cumorah, for Nibley, the perfect redoubt. (See his annotated Book of Mormon, one of many, BYU Ancient Studies Library, Hugh Nibley, BX 8622.1 A1 1963b, copy dated 7/5/78.)

The name Cumorah also describes just such a landscape. After all, the Akkadian root(s) kumara signifies to heap up, to pile, to tally; then, to strike down, annihilate. For Latter-day Saint Assyriologist Paul Y. Hoskisson, it is this verbal root that best describes Cumorah (see CAD K 111; Hoskisson suggests the reading heaps: "What's in a Name: Cumorah," Journal of the Book of Mormon).

Professor Hoskisson also notes in passing an ancient Syrian place name Kamaru and, following Jean-Marie Durand, suggests it represents an Amorite name deriving from the same root as Akkadian kumara. As Michael Astour tells us, Kamaru occurs (up to three times) in ancient Syria--and it persists to this day in the place name Kimar, Syria, just east of the Afrin River (see Michael Astour, "Semites and Hurrians in Northern Transtigris," etc.).

The same place name also appears in special Egyptian hieroglyphics used to write Semitic names and words. A list of place names recorded in the temple of Amarah West in Nubia gives us the Syrian Ginta ku-ma-ra, the Winepress of Kumarah. You cannot get any closer to Cumorah than the "reformed Egyptian," or hierogyphic "group writing," that expresses West Semitic Ginta Kumarah, that is, Gath Kumarah (see James Hoch, Semitic Words in Egyptian Texts of the New Kingdom and Third Intermediate Period, #425). = K. A. Kitchen, Ramesside Inscriptions II, 217, no. 98).

Professor Astour, taking his cue from the Akkadian dictionary, tells us what the Syrian place name means. The noun kumaru, kuwaru, etc., which signifies generally a construction of earth, specifically refers to a ramp or rampart (buttressing a city or city gate), or a dike. Such an embankment may have agricultural uses, or it may serve for defense, for a redoubt. Consider the following theophoric name: 'Ammukumarra, "'Ammu is a rampart." A like epithet speaks to "Teshub, the lord of the kamaru of the city of Irrite" (Michael Astour, "Semites and Hurrians in Northern Transtigris," Ernest R. Lacheman Festschrift, 26). Note, again, the ending in -a: Ginta Kumara, 'Ammukumarra: that's where the Amorite, or West Semitic surfaces. Book of Mormon Cumorah properly shows the West Semitic, rather than the East Semitic, that is, Akkadian, ending.

Beetling embankments, ramparts, and dikes: all these may serve for defensive earthworks, heaped up by men. Of superior worth would be a place where nature herself, in a riot of fountains and pits, rivers and embankments and escarpments, dikes and ditches--all criss-crossed and confounding--and rocks of all sizes everywhere, builds for man a place of redoubt--like Flanders. The whole makes for a natural beehive of military preparation, and, to be sure, the editors of the CAL (Comprehensive Lexicon of Aramaic) see in the Syriac word for beehive (kwr) a trace of the same Akkadian kmr in its sense of walling (brick wall and so on). (For the ruins of palatial Tell Ain Dara, our Syrian Kumaru towering over the paradisaical Afrin Valley, see http://romeartlover.tripod.com/Deinair.html.)

Nature walls off Cumorah and her hill--Mormon has the advantage.

We cannot know just what came to the ordinary Nephite's mind, when he heard the name Cumorah, but some mind linked name and nature's fortress.

E. G. Squire's study of the native antiquities of New York, whether Huron or a bit older, comes chock full of details about how Native Americans constructed earthworks and dug ditches in tandem with the natural defenses found in springs, spits, pits, bays, fissures in the limestone, etc. Squire's descriptions astonish. The natural defenses are already sufficiently strong to require but little in the way of the works of men: some ditches for palisades, earthen gates and ramparts--these last, large but not spectacular--and so forth. All such partake of the ephemeral; earth remains.https://valsederholm.blogspot.com/search/label/Cumorah

Of this description I will post more, this area around Cumorah would be the battle setting for two huge battles, separated by time and two groups of Heavenly Fathers children. It may have been chosen in part because of it's natural fortifications.

Many years later, David Whitmer told Elder Joseph F. Smith of the Quorum of the Twelve about his wagon trip to Fayette with Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. As they traveled across a section of prairie, they came upon a man walking along the road, carrying something that was obviously heavy in a knapsack on his back. Invited to ride, the man replied, “No, I am going to Cumorah.” Puzzled, David looked around inquiringly, but when he turned again, the man was gone. David demanded of Joseph: “‘What does it mean?’ Joseph informed him that the man was Moroni, and that the bundle on his back contained plates which Joseph had delivered to him before they departed from Harmony, Susquehanna County, and that he was taking them for safety, and would return them when he (Joseph) reached father Whitmer’s home.” Millennial Star, 49:772

Much more coming on Cumorah and surrounding area later. Martin Harris comes next.

[kirtland r.m.]

Martin Harris, one of the three witnesses.

Rather than going into a lot of side issues throughout Martin's life, I will stick with his many statements on what he saw, and a few other events in his life surrounding the Book of Mormon. Throughout his life, Martin continued to bear testimony that he saw an angel and the golden plates, and that he heard a voice from heaven testify that the plates had been translated “by the gift and power of God.”
Quotation from The Testimony of the Three Witnesses, ca. June 1829, printed in the Book of Mormon. For assessment of Martin’s lifetime of testimony, see Richard Lloyd Anderson, Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret Book, 1981), 107–118. See also Susan Easton Black and Larry C. Porter, Martin Harris: Uncompromising Witness of the Book of Mormon (Provo, UT: BYU Studies, 2018).
His consistent testimony is documented by more than 100 sources. Most of these are the recollections of others about what Martin said, but a few are first-hand.

“And now, because I foresee the lying in wait to destroy thee, yea, I foresee that if my servant Martin Harris humbleth not himself and receive a witness from my hand, that he will fall into transgression”
Doctrine and Covenants 5:32

Martin Harris was the first person besides Joseph Smith to be promised a view of the plates which contained the Book of Mormon, on the condition that he do as was written above.

As the translation neared completion, Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer, along with Martin Harris, who had come from Palmyra to the Whitmer’s Fayette, New York, home to check the translation’s progress, began begging to be the Three Witnesses. Joseph asked the Lord and He replied yes, if they relied on the Lord wholeheartedly and understood that they were committing themselves to testify, they could see.JSP, D1:82–85; Karen Lynn Davidson, David J. Whittaker, Mark Ashurst-McGee, and Richard L. Jensen, eds., Histories, Volume 1: Joseph Smith Histories, 1832–1834, vol. 1 of the Histories series of The Joseph Smith Papers, ed. Dean C. Jessee, Ronald K. Esplin, and Richard Lyman Bushman, 314n17 (hereafter JSP, H1).

For Martin, there was an added condition, the earlier revelation’s requirement (see D&C 5:24). “You have got to humble yourself before your God this day,” Joseph told him, “and obtain if possible a forgiveness of your sins.”Lucy Mack Smith, History, 1844-45, bk. 8, [11].

Joseph led the three men to the woods, where they knelt together and took turns asking God to show them the plates. But he didn’t. Not the first time they prayed, nor the second. It wasn’t until Martin stood up and confessed that he was the reason the heavens remained closed. He left the others to retreat further into the woods, and then the vision the men sought was opened. Joseph testified that an angel stood before them with the plates in his hands, turning the leaves one by one so they could see the engraved writing.”[4] Oliver and David later declared, “An angel of God came down from Heaven & he brought & laid before our eyes that we beheld & saw the plates & the engravings thereon.” Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris, Testimony of Three Witnesses, Palmyra, New York, late June 1829, in Book of Mormon Printer’s Manuscript, 463–64, handwriting of Oliver Cowdery, Community of Christ Library-Archives, Independence, Missouri, http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSumma ... 0witnesses.

Afterward, Joseph followed Martin’s path and found him in prayer, contrite, complying with the instructions he had received. When Martin saw Joseph, he asked him to join his earnest prayer that he could have the same experience. Their prayer was only half uttered, Joseph said, when “the same vision was opened to our view” and he heard and saw the same angel with the engraved plates, while Martin began to cry joyfully, “Mine eyes have beheld, mine eyes have beheld.” JSP, H1:317–21

Martin made quite a number of recorded statements very much like this one throughout his life. “Do I believe it! Do you see the sun shining! Just as surely as the sun is shining on us and gives us light, and the [moon] and stars give us light by night, just as surely as the breath of life sustains us, so surely do I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, chosen of God to open the last dispensation of the fullness of times; so surely do I know that the Book of Mormon was divinely translated. I saw the plates; I saw the Angel; I heard the voice of God. I know that the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. I might as well doubt my own existence as to doubt the divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon or the divine calling of Joseph Smith” (in William Harrison Homer, “The Passing of Martin Harris,” Improvement Era, Mar. 1926, 470).


Visit to Professor Charles Anthon

...When I would ask him questions pertaining to the early rise of the Church, his eyes would radiate with interest as he related experiences in connection with the translation of the Book of Mormon. He told me it was he who took some of the copied characters, along with the interpretation “which Joseph Smith had made through the gift and power of God” to Professor Charles Anthon, who pronounced them genuine Egyptian characters, and that the translation was correct and “he gave me a certificate to that effect.” ” Afterward when I told him where the man Joseph Smith got the plates from and who delivered the gold plates to him, he demanded the certificate back again and destroyed it, saying there is no such thing as ministering of angels in these days, but if I would bring him the gold plates, he would translate them. I told him that a considerable portion of the plates were sealed and could not be opened to human gaze. He then exclaimed, ‘I cannot read a sealed book,’ and thus the prophecy of Isaiah was fulfilled, which will be found in the 29th chapter and 11 verse, but I did not know that I was fulfilling it at the time.”


116 pages lost pages of the Book of Mormon.

“I was then convinced that it was true, and offered my services as a scribe for the Prophet in the work of translating. Joseph gladly accepted my offer. It was the 12th day of April, 1828, when I commenced to write for the Prophet. From this time on until the 14th day of June, 1828, Joseph dictated to me from the plates of gold as the characters thereon assumed, through the Urim and Thummim, the forms of equivalent modern words which were familiar to the understanding of the Prophet and seer.” From the 12th day of April [1828] until the 14th day of June [1828] he said he had written 116 pages foolscap of the translation. He said at this period of the translation, a circumstance happened. He was the cause of the 116 pages that he had written being lost and never found. He said he believed his wife burned it up, as she was very bitter against him having anything to do with Joseph Smith.

It was caused through her insisting that he bring the manuscript home and letting her and the rest of the family handle and see it. His family then consisted of his first wife, his father and mother, his brother Preserved Harris and his wife’s sister, a Mrs. Cobb. “I promised Joseph that I would not let anyone else see it.” Joseph inquired of the Lord through the Urim and Thummim if Harris should be permitted to take them, and was forbidden twice, but the third time he was permitted to take them after promising Joseph that he would not let any more see it. But he said when he arrived home, there were more people in the house besides the five and his wife took the manuscript and he never saw it anymore.

“So you see, Willie, it was stolen from me, and I could not take it back.” “But,” he said, “the Lord’s work cannot be stopped by mortal man, and Joseph was told in a revelation to retranslate from the small plates of Nephi, and thereby thwart the plans of wicked men, but I was never permitted to write for the Prophet anymore. Oliver Cowdery did all the rest of the writing.”

He said when the Saints moved to Missouri, he stayed in Kirtland. He was the custodian of the Kirtland temple and he told how the temple was in a dilapidated condition when he left it in August 1870, and how he left his daughter by his first wife, and her two little children.

I asked him, “Is it not true that you were active in the performance of your duties in the early rise of the Church, and that you gave your money liberally to help the Prophet and the Church along?”

“That is all true,” replied Harris. “Everything was all right then. I was honored while the Saints were in Kirtland, but now that I am old and poor, it is all different. I mortgaged my farm to pay for the first publication of 5000 copies of the Book of Mormon.” I asked him if he still believed that the Book of Mormon was true, and that Joseph Smith was indeed a true prophet of God.

His whole being became electrified and it seemed that a changed man stood before me. It was no longer a man with an imagined grievance. It was a man with a message, a man with noble convictions in his heart, inspired of God and endowed with a divine knowledge. He said, “Just as sure as you see the sun shining, just as sure am I that I stood in the presence of an angel of God with Joseph Smith, and saw him hold the gold plates in his hands. I also saw the Urim and Thummim, the breastplate, and the sword of Laban. I saw the angel descend from heaven, and when he had finished his message, I saw him ascend up into heaven. The heavens were then opened and I heard the voice of God declare that everything the angel had told us was true, and that the Book of Mormon was translated correctly. I was commanded by God’s voice to testify to the whole world what I had seen and heard.”

“I cried out in my ecstacy—’ ’tis enough; ’tis enough; mine eyes have beheld of the glories of God. Hosanna; hosanna; hosanna, to God and the Lamb.’ And I fell on my face on the ground. The next thing I knew, the Prophet was helping me up.”

I said, “Brother Harris, this is electrifying to me – to have the privilege of conversing with a man that has stood and talked with angels of the Lord. It is grand to hear you bear your testimony.”

I asked him, “Did you, or either one of the other witnesses ever at any time deny your testimony as recorded in the preface of the Book of Mormon?”

He answered, “No! Not one of the Three Witnesses to the authenticity of the Book of Mormon ever at any time denied his testimony. They all died reaffirming it with their last breath.” His voice throbbed with the sincerity and the conviction of his message. He was then the real Martin Harris, whose burning testimony, no power on earth could quench. He said again he spent his money freely for the Church. “I was the first scribe for Joseph in the translating of the Book of Mormon. I was called by revelation to assist in the selection and ordination of the first Twelve Apostles of the newly organized church.”

He said that Edward Stevenson was appointed to collect money by subscription to bring him from Kirtland in Ohio to Utah. He said that he arrived in Salt Lake City on the 30th day of August, 1870. After spending a few days in Salt Lake City and Ogden, he left for Smithfield, Cache County, Utah, to live with his family.

I had many interviews with Martin Harris as I lived in the Harris family [home] eighteen months, about ten months prior to his death. While my name is not Harris, I became a member of the family through living with them so long.

I am the only one alive today of his immediate family that knows anything pertaining to his testimony, as taken from his own lips. In his talks with me, he would say, “Now, Willie, I am not going to live very long; and after I am dead, I want you to tell the people what I have told you. For it is all true.” And he would hold up his right hand and swear himself that he was telling the truth. I would invariably tell him: “Yes, Grandpa, I will sure tell the people what you have told me, for I know you have told me the truth.

On the 9th day of July 1875, while he was dying, I knelt by his cot, as he was lying on a cot in the southwest corner of the room in a house owned by a man by the name of Carbine, it was situated on the north side of Clarkston, Cache County, Utah. I wanted to get what I thought would be his last words, but he could not talk audibly. I could not understand what he wanted to tell me. He tried hard to tell me. So I stroked his hair back on his forehead and knelt down and prayed to the Lord and asked him in the name of Jesus to strengthen his servant’s voice so that I could understand his last words, but I could get no response. He was lying on his left side, facing in the room and as I knelt down I placed my hands on his right arm. As I moved to stand up, I was in the act of moving my hands and he shook his head as if he did not want me to move. I then knelt down again and prayed to the Lord as before, and I was inspired by the Lord to ask Grandpa if he wanted me to hold up his right hand so that he could bear his testimony. I asked him and his answer came clear, “Yes.” While I held his right hand up, strength was given to him and he bore his testimony as he had done many times before and I understood every word.

He then bore the same testimony to the whole world and then laid back exhausted. There were two other men standing in the room and heard him bear his testimony. One of them was Thomas Godfery of Clarkston who just recently died.

Martin Harris’ spirit departed the next day, the 10th day of July, 1875, in Clarkston, Cache County, Utah, aged 92 years. I attended his funeral and assisted in his burial in the Clarkston cemetery.

Signed, William Pilkington Smithfield, Utah 2,
William Pilkington to Vern C. Poulter, Smithfield, Utah,28 February 1930, BYU Archives and Manuscripts.
William Pilkington, Testimony sworn before Joseph W. Peterson, 3 April 1934, BYU-A.

Soon after his arrival in Utah Martin Harris located in Smithfield, and later in Clarkston, Cache county, where he died July 10, 1875, nearly ninety-three years old. A few hours before his death, when prostrated with great weakness. Bishop Simon Smith came into his room; Martin Harris stretched forth his hands to salute him and said, “Bishop, I am going.” The Bishop told him that he had something of importance to tell him in relation to the Book of Mormon, which was to be published in the Spanish language, by the request of Indians in Central America. Upon hearing this, Martin Harris brightened up, his pulsation improved, and, although very weak, he began to talk as he formerly had done previous to his sickness. He conversed for about two hours, and it seemed that the mere mention of the Book of Mormon put new life into him.

His son Martin Harris, jun., in a letter addressed to Pres. Geo. A. Smith and dated Clarkston, July 9, 1875, says: “He (Martin Harris) was taken sick a week ago yesterday, with some kind of stroke, or life became so weak and exhausted, that he has no use in his limbs. He cannot move, only by our aid. He has continued to talk about and testify to the truth of the Book of Mormon, and was in his happiest mood when he could get somebody to listen to his testimony; if he felt dull and weary at times, and some one would come in and open up a conversation and give him an opportunity of talking, he would immediately revive and feel like a young man for a little while. We begin to think that he has borne his last testimony. The last audible words he has spoken were something about the Three Witnesses of the Book of Mormon, but we could not understand what it was.” (LDS Biographical Encyclopedia, p.276)

On the afternoon of his death he was bolstered up in his bed, where, with the Book of Mormon in his hand, he bore his last testimony to those who were present. (Millennial Star, Vol. 48, p. 367)

Church History
The Testimony of Martin Harris
By Daniel C. Peterson · September 9, 2018

In a notarized statement dated 29 October 1921, George Godfrey, who prepared Martin Harris’s grave in Clarkston, Utah, summarized his lengthy acquaintance with the Witness. Then he offered this interesting statement:

Prior to his death and in his last sickness I sat up nights with him upon many an occasion, in connection with my Brothers, John E. Godfrey and Thomas Godfrey, both of whom now reside at Clarkston, aforesaid, and who can make affidavit to the things I am herein stating: that many times I have heard the said Martin Harris bear witness to the truthfulness and genuineness of the Book of Mormon, at times when he was enjoying good health and spirits and when he was on his deathbed; that his testimony never varied;

that I have seen others and that I myself have tried to entrap him relative to the testimony which he bore, by cros [sic] questioning him relative to the scenes and events which are Church History in connection with the bringing forth of the Book of Mormon; that upon all of these questions his mind was clear as it is possible for the human mind to be, and that his testimonies have left no tract [sic] in my mind that he actually conversed with an angel who bore testimony to him of the truthfulness of the records contained in the Book of Mormon; that he saw and handled the gold plates from which the said records were taken;

that a few hours before his death, and when he was so weak and enfeebled that he was unable to recognize me or anyone, and knew not to whom he was speaking, I asked him if he did not feel that there was an element, at least, of fraudulence and deception in the things that were written and told of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, and he replied as he had always done, and many, many times in my hearing, and with the same spirit that he always manifested when enjoying health and vigor:

“The Book of Mormon is no fake. I know what I know. I have seen what I have seen, and I have heard what I have heard. I have seen and handled the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon is written. An angel appeared to me and others and testified to the truthfulness of the record, and had I been willing to have perjured myself and sworn falsely to the testimony I now bear, I could have been a rich man, but I could not have testified other than I have done and am now doing, for these things are true.” The document is reproduced at Tuckett and Wilson, The Martin Harris Story, 88.

.”One morning in July I thought I would go to see Brother Harris. He lived about three blocks from my home and I had heard that he was not well. People were coming from far and near to see him and hear his testimony.

When I arrived I found two other men present -- Brother James Joseph Keep and Brother John Godfrey. Brother Harris lay in bed resting on his elbow. “How are you Brother Harris?” I asked. “Oh, pretty well” he replied.

“We came to hear your testimony of the Book of Mormon,” I said. He raised up and said, “Yes, I wish I could make the whole world hear my Testimony.” He stretched out his arm and said, “Brothers I believe there is an angel here to hear what I am going to say to you and you will never forget what I say.”

“The Prophet Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer and myself went into a small grove to pray to obtain a promise that we should behold with our own eyes that we could testify to the whole world. At length the angel stood before Oliver and David with the plates in his hand. I had gone a little apart to pray, and in my desperation I asked the prophet to kneel and pray with me. He did so and immediately the angel stood before me and said, “LOOK.” When I glanced at him I fell to the ground but immediately got up and saw the angel turn the leaves of the golden plates over and I said, “IT IS ENOUGH MY LORD AND MY GOD.” I then heard the voice of God say, “THE BOOK OF MORMON IS TRUE AND TRANSLATED CORRECTLY.

Brother Harris then turned over as if he had no more to say and we made ready to leave. He spoke again and said, “I will tell you of the most wonderful thing that happened, after Joseph received the plates. Three of us, myself and two more, took some tools and went to the hill to dig for more plates of gold or something and indeed we found a stone box. We got quite excited and dug around it very carefully and just when we were ready to lift it up out of the hole, some unseen power slid it back into the hill. We stood and looked at it and one of us tried to drive a crowbar through the lid to hold it, but the crowbar glanced off and the corner of the lid was chipped off.

Sometime that box will be found and you will find one corner of the lid broken and you will know that I have spoken the truth. Brother’s just as sure as you are standing here and see me, just so sure did we see the Angel with the golden plates in his hand. He showed them to me and I promised I would bear witness of this truth both here and hereafter.”

His lips really trembled and tears came to my eyes. I should have liked to ask more, but did not do so. I refreshed myself, shook hands, thanked him and left.

When I think of the day I stood before Martin Harris and saw him stretch forth his hand, raise his voice and bear his testimony, the feeling that thrilled my whole being, I can never forget or express the joy that filled my whole being.
Signed as Witnesses: Clarkston Utah John Godfrey and Ole A. Jensen July 1875

Next, on to the eight witnesses.

[itsmerich]

Kirtland - first you're a great guy. Second - this is a wealth of great info!! thank you

[kirtland r.m.]

Kirtland - first you're a great guy. Second - this is a wealth of great info!! thank you

itsmerich, thank you, and you are more than welcome.

[kirtland r.m.]

The Testimony of Eight Witnesses

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

Christian Whitmer

Jacob Whitmer

Peter Whitmer, Jun.

John Whitmer

Hiram Page

Joseph Smith, Sen.

Hyrum Smith

Samuel H. Smith


Christian Whitmer
Christian was among the number who first embraced the fullness of the gospel as revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith, and was baptized a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, together with his wife, in Seneca Lake on April 11, 1830, by Elder Oliver Cowdery. This was only five days after the Church was organized.

Christian passed through all the scenes of persecutions and mobbings which took place in that part of the country until he, in connection with the rest of the Saints, was driven out of Jackson County in November 1833. He settled temporarily in Clay County, where he was chosen as one of the High Councilors of the Church in Missouri on July 3, 1834. This position he occupied until his death.

Christian Whitmer was threatened at gunpoint and Hiram Page was severely beaten during these mobbings, but the family’s faith did not weaken under persecution. David Whitmer, along with other leading Mormons, was herded into Independence Square “at the point of a bayonet.” The mob’s leader threatened his Mormon prisoners with “instant death unless they denied the Book of Mormon and confessed it to be a fraud.” The clicks of guns being cocked backed up his ultimatum, but the special witness to the Book of Mormon met that challenge dramatically: “David Whitmer, hereupon, lifted up his hands and bore witness that the Book of Mormon was the Word of God. The mob then let them go.” Years later David recalled the episode: “The testimony I gave to that mob made them fear and tremble, and I escaped from them.”https://www.latterdaylight.com/question ... an-whitmer

'''The Whitmers lost all a short two years later when mobs drove them out with the other Jackson County Saints.
The exiled Mormons temporarily moved to Clay County, north across the Missouri River. In this location, both Christian and Peter, Jr., the oldest and youngest Whitmer sons, served as High Councilors. But the burden of persecution and exposure was heavy.

Christian Whitmer died at age thirty-seven, on November 27, 1835, leaving a wife but no children. He died firmly in the faith to the end.

Peter Whitmer Jr.

The Lord told young(19) Peter, “the thing which will be the most worth unto you will be to declare repentance unto this people, that you may bring souls unto me, that you may rest with them in the kingdom of my Father” (Doctrine and Covenants 16:6). Soon thereafter, Peter was among the few baptized before the formal organization of Christ’s restored Church in April 1830. See JS, History, 1838–1856, vol. A-1, 23, online at josephsmithpapers.org.

As the Book of Mormon was being printed, Peter stayed in Palmyra, likely to assist Hyrum Smith and Oliver Cowdery in protecting the manuscript copies of the Book of Mormon. Lucy Mack Smith, Biographical Sketches, in Morris, Documentary History, 471–472.

At the end of June 1829, Peter was chosen to be among the Eight Witnesses, he remained faithful.
Various sources indicate that Peter and Oliver specifically testified of their experiences seeing the plates.10 Together, their testimonies could pack a powerful one-two punch(they served a mission together).

Lyman Wight, for instance, remembered meeting the missionaries as he was about to leave on “business … of vital importance.” Impressed by their good natured persistence, he decided to stay and attend a meeting where the missionaries shared their message. Wight recalled, “One [Oliver] testified that he had seen angels, another [Peter] that he had seen the plates, and that the gifts were back in the Church again.”11 This combination of testimony captivated Wight, and he left that meeting much later than he had anticipated, and joined the Church soon thereafter.12

As a result of the labors of Peter and his fellow missionaries, Ohio became the first gathering place of the Church. As the Church grew, Peter continued to bear witness of the Book of Mormon and the Latter-day Saint work. For example, at an October 1831 conference, Peter said, “Ever since I have had an acquaintance with the writing of God”—surely including the Book of Mormon—“I have [viewed] eternity with perfect confidence.”13 At this conference, Peter reportedly joined his fellow Book of Mormon witnesses in bearing “their solemn testimony to the truth of that book” with their right-hands uplifted.14

Peter joined the rest of the Whitmer family in Missouri, where they and other Saints sought to build up Zion. He faithfully endured the mob violence that drove them out of Jackson County in 1833. One woman who lived amid the Saints in Jackson County in the 1830s later remembered Peter Whitmer as being among those “testifying that they had seen the plates, and had handled them with their hands.”15

Tragically, Peter died in September 1836 of tuberculosis in Liberty, Missouri, just a few days before his 27th birthday. His brother-in-law and mission companion Oliver Cowdery wrote a touching tribute to Peter and his brother, Christian Whitmer, who had passed away a year earlier. According to Oliver:

[Peter and Christian] were the first to embrace the new covenant, on hearing it, and during a constant scene of persecution and perplexity, to their last moments, maintained its truth—they were both included in the list of the eight witnesses in the book of Mormon, and though they have departed, it is with great satisfaction that we reflect, that they proclaimed to their last moments, the certainty of the former testimony: The testament is in force after the death of the testator. May all who read remember the fact, that the Lord has given men a witness of himself in the last days, and that they, have faithfully declared it till called away.16

...After his mission, as a 21-year-old, he could testify in front of a large congregation that he looked to “eternity with perfect confidence.” His resolve in this regard was no doubt tested in the following years, as he endured the persecutions of Missouri. While older, ostensibly more mature converts lost faith in the 1830s, Peter held fast to what he knew to be true. His steadfast witness of the Book of Mormon through all these experiences proves that despite his youth, Peter Whitmer Jr. was indeed the right choice for inclusion among the Eight Witnesses.

Peter was one of the official six members of the Church of Christ on April 6, 1830. Shortly thereafter, Whitmer was called to travel with Oliver Cowdery, Parley P. Pratt and Ziba Peterson on a special mission to preach the faith to the Native Americans. This mission led to the conversion of former Campbellite minister Sidney Rigdon and many of his congregation. The phenomenal success of this mission led the church relocated to this Ohio area later that year.

Peter is often overshadowed by his longer living brothers David and John Whitmer, who held more visible leadership roles in the early years of the Church. Yet all who read and love the Book of Mormon today should join Oliver Cowdery in reflecting “with great satisfaction” on the life and faithful testimony of Peter Whitmer Jr.https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/ ... old-plates

Perer Witmer Jr. died firm in the faith.[/color] Six other witnesses to come.

[kirtland r.m.]

Hiram Page

I knew my father to be true and faithful to his testimony of the divinity of the Book of Mormon until the very last. Whenever he had an opportunity to bear his testimony to this effect, he would always do so, and seemed to rejoice exceedingly in having been privileged to see the plates and thus become one of the Eight Witnesses.
Andrew Jenson, Edward Stevenson, and Joseph S. Black, Report of an Interview with Philander Page, September 1888, in Morris, Documentary History, 446.

Because I have just posted on Hiram Page, I will just put up a link and call it good.viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62043


Jacob Whitmer

The following is from moroni10.com. Jacob_Whitmer the second son of Peter Whitmer Sr. and Mary Whitmer, was born on January 27th, 1800. In his youth, Jacob was educated and learned hard work by helping to run the Whitmer farm. He married Elizabeth Schott, in 1825. They would have 9 children. Jacob first became acquainted with Joseph Smith Jr. at the age of 29. His brother, David, brought Joseph and his wife, Emma, and Joseph's scribe, Oliver Cowdery, to their home in Fayette, New York, to complete the translation of the gold plates, now known as the Book of Mormon. Jacob believed in Joseph, and had faith enough to be called as one of the Eight Witnesses. Jacob was allowed to see, hold and examine the plates.

He was one of the earliest members baptized, on April 11, 1830, just a few days after the Church was officially organized in his parent's home. He and his family accompanied the church to Kirtland, Ohio, and to Jackson County, Missouri, where he along with everyone else was driven out by mob violence against the Church. He resettled in Clay County, Missouri, and worked in different capacities for the Church, including High Councilor, and a member of the Church's Building Committee. However, when his brothers, David and John were excommunicated for apostasy, Jacob voluntarily removed himself from the church and moved to Richmond, Missouri. While living in Richmond, his family established themselves as respected and prominent members of the community. Jacob's son, David, became a lawyer, and I found reports that one of them had been elected Mayor of Richmond for 2 terms. Jacob died at the age of 56 on April 21, 1856.

Jacob Whitmer's Headstone Even though Jacob severed his relationship with the Church, he never denied his experience with the gold plates and the Book of Mormon. In 1888, John C. Whitmer, Jacob's son, recalled his father's last words about his part as a witness. This is what he said, "My father (Jacob Whitmer) was always faithful and true to his testimony in regard to the Book of Mormon, and confirmed it on his deathbed."

If I were about to die, and I was about to go meet God, the last thing I would want is to keep a lie going. I would want to clear my conscience as fast as I could. He had every opportunity and every reason to do it. He had nothing to gain by keeping the story going, and nothing to lose by going public with a recantation of his testimony. The fact is that he never recanted, even on his death bed, because he knew what he had witnessed and signed his name too was true. And here's the kicker, Jacob Whitmer has an image of an open Book of Mormon etched into his headstone. On the back is an inscription that reads "Jacob was one of the eight witnesses of the Book of Mormon". Jacob's testimony is literally etched in stone.http://www.moroni10.com/witnesses/Jacob_Whitmer.html

Sources:
B. H. Roberts, New Witnesses for God, Vol.2, p.321
LDS Biographical Encyclopedia, Andrew Jenson, Vol. 1, p.276
P. W. Poulson ltr in Deseret News, 16 Aug 1878, p.2
"Historical Landmarks," Deseret News, 17 Sep 1888, p.

[kirtland r.m.]

... and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it....The Eight Witnesses.

John Whitmer, another of the eight witnesses

John regularly spoke at conferences and would use these occasions to testify of the Book of Mormon. At a conference in New Portage, Ohio in 1835, for example, he “gave a short relation of the facts connected with the translation of the book of Mormon,” and testified “openly, candidly, and seriously of what he has seen, hefted and handled with his own hands.” Oliver Cowdery, “New Portage Conference,” Latter-day Saints Messenger and Advocate 1, June 1835, 143, in Morris, Documentary History, 450.

He also served as editor of the newspaper, the Latter-day Saints’ Messenger and Advocate, for several months in 1835–1836. When he stepped down as editor in March 1836, he again offered a serious and candid affirmation of his witness of the Book of Mormon:

[T]o say that the book of Mormon is a revelation from God, I have no hesitancy; but with all confidence have signed my name to it as such … I have most assuredly seen the plates from whence the book of Mormon is translated, and that I have handled these plates, and know of a surety that Joseph Smith, jr., has translated the book of Mormon by the gift and power of God. John Whitmer, “Address to the Patrons of the Latter Day Saints’ Messenger and Advocate,” Latter-day Saints Messenger and Advocate 2, no. 6, March 1836, in Morris, Documentary History, 426.

Unfortunately, John and other members of the Whitmer family left the Church and stayed behind in Missouri . The reasons for this are complicated, and include social, political, ecclesiastical, and economic factors. What is clear and impressive, however, is that even in the thick of his disaffection and the surrounding controversies, John stuck to his testimony of seeing and handling the plates.

In a letter written in March 1876, about two years before his death, he wrote: I have never heard that any one of the three or eight witnesses ever denied the testimony that they have borne to the Book published in the first edition of the Book of Mormon. … Our names have gone forth to all nations, tongues and people as a divine revelation from God. And it will bring to pass the designs of God according to the declarations therein contained. John Whitmer to Mark H. Forscutt, March 5, 1876, in Richard Lloyd Anderson, Book of Mormon Authorship Revisited: The Evidence for Ancient Origins, ed. Noel B. Reynolds (Provo, UT: FARMS, 1997), 55–56.

An anti L.D.S. claim shot down and dismissed by John Whitmer.

...Others claim the Eight only saw and hefted the plates while covered or in a box, but this too is directly contradicted by John Whitmer. In an interview recorded by Wilhelm Poulson, shortly before John’s death, he was specifically asked if the plates were covered when he saw them. “No,” John answered, “[Joseph] handed them uncovered into our hands, and we turned the leaves sufficient to satisfy us.” The plates, based on this tangible examination, were “as material as anything can be.” P. Wilhelm Poulson Interview, July 31, 1878, in Morris, Documentary History, 453.

Here is more detail on that interview, Wilhelm Poulson’s 1878 interview with John Whitmer provides an excellent summary:

“I — Did you handle the plates with your hands? He — I did so!

“I — Then they were a material substance? He — Yes, as material as anything can be.

“I — They were heavy to lift? He — Yes, and you know gold is a heavy metal, they were very heavy.

“I — How big were the leaves? He — So far as I can recollect, 8 by 6 or 7 inches.

“I — Were the leaves thick? He — Yes, just so thick, that characters could be engraven on both sides.

“I — How were the leaves joined together? He — In three rings, each one in the shape of a D with the straight line towards the centre. …

“I — Did you see them covered with a cloth? He — No. He handed them uncovered into our hands, and we turned the leaves sufficient to satisfy us.”


Thanks to Meridian Magazine for this materiel although I have condensed it.https://latterdaysaintmag.com/why-did-j ... of-mormon/

Joseph Smith Sr. another one of the eight witnesses.


After the Eight Witnesses returned to the home, after seeing the plates, as Lucy Mack Smith related,
“[t]hat evening we held a meeting in which all the witnesses bore testimony to the facts, as stated [in The Testimony of Eight Witnesses].” Lucy Mack Smith, The Revised and Enhanced History of Joseph Smith by His Mother, eds. Scot Facer Proctor & Maurine Jensen Proctor (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book, 1996), 203.

Lucy Mack Smith:

In the fall of 1830, a man came to the home of Joseph Smith, Sr. to collect on a fourteen dollar debt. Joseph, Sr. had been sick and unable to eat breakfast that morning. He offered to pay six dollars and the rest later, but the man replied, “‘No, I will not wait one hour; and if thou dost not pay me immediately, thou shalt go forthwith to the jail, unless’ –running to the fireplace and making violent gestures with his hands toward the fire “thou wilt burn up those Books of Mormon; but if thou wilt burn them up, then I will forgive thee the whole debt.” Lucy Mack Smith offered to give the man the gold beads that she wore in satisfaction of the debt, but the man refused her offer. Joseph, Sr., stated “[Sir], we shall not burn the Book of Mormon, nor deny the inspiration of the Almighty.” Lucy pleaded with the man to allow her time to find someone else who could pay the debt, but Joseph, Sr., was instead taken to jail without being given a chance to eat.

Samuel Smith later visited his father in jail. Joseph, Sr., reported to him: Immediately after I left your mother, the men by whom I was taken commenced using every possible argument to induce me to renounce the Book of Mormon, saying, “how much better it would be for you to deny that silly thing, than to be disgraced and imprisoned, when you might not only escape this, but also have the note back, as well as the money which you have paid on it.” To this I made no reply. They still went on in the same manner till we arrived at the jail, when they gurried me into his dismal dungeon. I shuddered when I first heard these heavy doors creaking upon their hinges; but then I thought to myself, I was not the first man who had been imprisoned for the truth’s sake; and when I should meet Paul in the paradise of God, I could tell him that I, too, had been in bonds for the gospel which he had preached. And this has been my only consolation.

From the time I entered until now, and this is the fourth day, I have had nothing to eat, save a pint basin full of very weak broth; and there [pointing to the opposite side of the cell] lies the basin yet.

Lucy concluded the story by stating that “Mr. Smith went out into the jail yard to a cooper’s shop, where he obtained employment at coopering, and followed the same until he was released, which was thirty days. He preached during his confinement there every Sunday, and when he was released, he baptized two persons whom he had thus converted. Lucy Mack Smith, The Revised and Enhanced History of Joseph Smith by His Mother, eds. Scot Facer Proctor & Maurine Jensen Proctor (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book, 1996), 238-39, 242-43.

At age 64 Joseph Sr. accompanied by his brother John Smith journeyed nearly 2,400 miles throughout the eastern states sharing the message of the Restoration and strengthening fledgling Church branches. After returning to Kirtland, the brothers moved their families to Missouri. When the Prophet Joseph was taken prisoner outside of Far West, Missouri in October 1838, Joseph Sr. and his wife Lucy heard him scream. “Not knowing the cause, we supposed they were murdering him,” wrote Mother Smith. “Soon after the screaming commenced, five or six guns were discharged. At this, Mr. Smith [Joseph Sr.], folding his arms tight across his heart, cried out, ‘Oh, my God! my God! they have murdered my son! they have murdered him! and I must die, for I cannot live without him!’”6

Family tradition purports that Joseph Sr. never afterwards entirely recovered. As he lay on his deathbed in Nauvoo, Illinois in 1840, family members were invited to receive a blessing from him. Joseph Sr. promised his son Joseph, “You shall even live to finish your work.” Joseph wept and asked, “Oh! my father, shall I? ‘Yes,’ said his father, “you shall live to lay out the plan of all the work which God has given you to do. This is my dying blessing upon your head in the name of Jesus.’”

After blessing other children and his wife Lucy, Joseph Sr. said, “I can see and hear, as well as ever I could.” After a long pause he exclaimed, “I see Alvin. I shall live seven or eight minutes.” Mother Smith wrote, “In about eight minutes his breath stopped . . . He departed so calmly, that, for some time, we could not believe but that he would breathe again.” Lucy Mack Smith, History, 1845, pp. 298-301.

[kirtland r.m.]

Two more of the eight witnesses to go. First though, I just found this today, enjoy.
I visited David Whitmer after he was more than 65 years of age, and <he> solemnly declared to me “I saw the angel of God, I heard his voice, hence I know of a truth! Martin Harris is some over 89 years of age, and still he carries the book of Mormon under his arm, and testifies to all great and small, “I am Martin Harris in all the world, and I know the book of Mormon to be verily true. And although all men should deny the truth of that book, I dare not do it. My heart is fixed. O God, my heart is fixed! I could not know more truly or certainly than I do.”
“The Testimony of Men,” an excerpt from W. E. McLellan’s Book, circa 1871
https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/the- ... witnesses/

[kirtland r.m.]

Hyrum Smith, one of the eight witnesses, and latter day martyr.

After being in Liberty Jail, Hyrum wrote:

I felt a determination to die, rather than deny the things which my eyes had seen, which my hands had handled, and which I had borne testimony to, wherever my lot had been cast. Hyrum Smith, "To the Saints scattered abroad," Times and Seasons 1 (November 1839), 20, 23

"[Mary Fielding Smith] bears testimony that her husband [Hyrum] has seen and handled the plates, &c." Joseph Fielding, "Letter to Parley P. Pratt," Millennial Star 4 (August 1841), 52.

"When I was but ten years of age, I heard the testimony of the Patriarch Hyrum Smith, one of the eight witnesses, to the divinity of the Book of Mormon and the appearance of the plates from which it was translated." Salt Lake Stake Historical Record, 25 January 1888; cited in Richard Lloyd Anderson, Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1981), 146. ISBN 0877478465.

In December 1839, Hyrum Smith had sent a letter to the still-scattered Saints, exiled from their homes in Missouri under the infamous "Extermination Order" of Governor Lilburn W. Boggs. In it, he recounted some of his own sufferings in captivity at Liberty Jail, where his life was several times in direct danger and bore witness, once more, to seeing and handling the golden plates of the Book of Mormon. Hyrum Smith, 1839, letter from Liberty Jail
Encyclopedia of Mormonism

I had been abused and thrust into a dungeon, and confined for months on account of my faith, and the testimony of Jesus Christ. However I thank God that I felt a determination to die, rather than deny the things which my eyes had seen, which my hands had handled, and which I had borne testimony to . . . ; and I can assure my beloved brethren that I was enabled to bear as strong a testimony, when nothing but death presented itself, as ever I did in my life.

These were not empty words. Four and a half years later, Hyrum Smith sealed his testimony with his blood at Carthage, Illinois, when an armed anti-Mormon mob with painted faces assassinated him and his brother. The historical evidence indicates that Hyrum understood his likely fate, and that he went to it willingly. Daniel C. Peterson, “Not Joseph’s, and Not Modern,” in Echoes and Evidences of the Book of Mormon, edited by Donald W. Parry, Daniel C. Peterson, and John W. Welch (Provo, Utah: FARMS, 2002), Chapter 2

The Prophet Joseph said of his brother Hyrum, “I could pray in my heart that all my brethren were like unto my beloved brother Hyrum, who possesses the mildness of a lamb, and the integrity of a Job, and in short, the meekness and humility of Christ; and I love him with that love that is stronger than death, for 1 never had occasion to rebuke him, nor he me.” Journal, 1835-1836, p. 76. Joseph Smith Papers

After escaping from bondage in Missouri, Hyrum co-signed notes with his brother Joseph to purchase the first plots of land in Commerce, Illinois. He was at his father’s bedside when he was told by his father, “I now give you my dying blessing. You shall have a season of peace, so that you shall have sufficient rest to accomplish the work which God has given you to do. You shall be as firm as the pillars of heaven unto the end of your days. I now seal upon your head the patriarchal power, and you shall bless the people.” Lucy Mack Smith, History, 1844-1845, p. 5, bk. 18.https://witnessesofthebookofmormon.org/ ... e-history/

[kirtland r.m.]

Samuel H. Smith, another one of the eight witnesses.

In the spring of 1832: Elder [Samuel] Smith read the 29th chapter of Isaiah at the first meeting and delineated the circumstances of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, of which he said he was a witness. He knew his brother Joseph had the plates, for the prophet had shown them to him, and he had handled them and seen the engravings theron. His speech was more like a narrative than a sermon. Daniel Tyler, “Incidents of Experience,” Scraps of Biography, Faith Promoting Series (Salt Lake City, UT: 1883), 10:23; cited in Richard Lloyd

Phineas Young (brother to Brigham Young) met Samuel on his first mission, and was given a Book of Mormon:

“Ah,” said I, “You are one of the witnesses.”

“Yes,” said he, “I know the book to be a revelation from God, translated by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost, and that my brother Joseph Smith, Jr., is a Prophet, Seer and Revelator.” Autobiography of Phineas Young, also cit Deseret News (3 February 1858); reproduced in Richard Lloyd Anderson, Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1981), 139. ISBN 0877478465.

Samuel served a challenging eleven-month mission with Orson Hyde (see D&C 75:13). The mission resulted in baptisms and Church meetings from Ohio to Maine. Of their mission Orson Hyde wrote, “This was one of the most arduous and toilsome missions ever performed in the Church. To travel two thousand miles on foot, . . . often sleeping in school houses after preaching—in barns, in sheds, by the way side . . . was something of a task.” Orson Hyde, “History of Orson Hyde,” Millennial Star (December 3, 1864): 776.

Samuel wrote, “Went from House to House and many during that day rejected us. We shook off the dust from our feet as a testimony against them.”“Events in the Life of Samuel Harrison Smith including His Missionary Journal for the Year 1832.” Church History Library.


Who was Samuel H. Smith?

His younger brother Don Carlos said of him, “He is as faithful as the sun!”1

His mother, Lucy Mack Smith, said that none of her sons had a greater gift of healing than Samuel.2 When she called on her husband and sons in 1835 for a priesthood blessing, Samuel was voice as they blessed Lucy to be healed from an eye inflammation that had caused partial blindness. “When they took their hands off my head,” wrote Lucy, “I opened my eyes and read two lines in the Book of Mormon.”3

His daughter Mary revealed another dimension of Samuel when she wrote, “My father was an industrious, hard-working man, who never shirked any task. While working on the farm, he worked every day and part of every moonlight night.”4

These accounts, written by three people who knew and loved Samuel, help us see into his life and character. Samuel’s charge, though temporal in many ways, was essential, and Samuel embraced it willingly. He became the hands that helped his father care for the farm when his prophet-brother Joseph, with Hyrum at his side, was working to restore the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Samuel made the 135-mile trip between Palmyra and Harmony numerous times. On one of these visits, Samuel served temporarily as scribe for Joseph.12 In early April 1829 Samuel brought schoolteacher Oliver Cowdery from Palmyra, and Oliver became Joseph’s full-time scribe.

During Samuel’s visits, Joseph continued to teach him the gospel; Samuel “was not, however, very easily persuaded of these things.” So in May 1829 he did as Joseph had done and retired to the woods to pray. After fervent prayer, he “obtained revelation” that Joseph’s teachings were true. Oliver Cowdery, who had been baptized along with Joseph Smith on May 15, baptized Samuel on May 25.13

After Joseph finished translating the Book of Mormon in June 1829, Samuel became one of the Eight Witnesses in Palmyra who bore written testimony of the plates, saying, “We did handle [them] with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon.”14

Between the births of Samuel’s daughters, the Kirtland Temple was dedicated on March 27, 1836. Samuel, as head of the high council, stood among those in the tiered pulpits reserved for the Prophet and Melchizedek Priesthood officers.

Yet during this time of spiritual outpouring, crisis came as many banks throughout the country collapsed in 1837(this occurred during large nationwide economic downturn, I have posted on this topic at this forum) . The Church-owned Kirtland Safety Society was among them. Nearly all the Saints lost money, including Samuel. Some of the most prominent members apostatized. Samuel, however, remained faithful.

In late October 1838, Samuel, as part of the local Latter-day Saint militia, fought in the battle of Crooked River. Afterward, the Missourians pursued the militia. Brigham Young counseled them to flee to Quincy, Illinois, which they did.19 They arrived in early 1839. They were among the first of the Saints to live in Quincy, about 50 miles south of Nauvoo. Mary and the children met up with Samuel here. When his parents arrived at the Mississippi River after an exhausting journey through Missouri, Samuel crossed the river, arranged for them to ride a ferry to Quincy, and then gave them his rented house.

On June 27, 1844, while still living in Plymouth, Samuel learned that his brothers Joseph and Hyrum, who were in Carthage Jail with John Taylor and Willard Richards, were in danger. Samuel headed toward Carthage with a 14-year-old boy driving a wagon. On the way they met a mob, which attacked when they learned Samuel was Joseph Smith’s brother. The boy headed to Carthage with the wagon, and Samuel escaped into the woods “after severe fatigue, and much danger.”26

He made his way home and “acquired a horse noted for its speed.”27 His six-year-old daughter, Mary, remembers this moment: “My father came into the house in much excitement, and said … ‘I think I can break through the mob and get to Carthage’ and immediately he mounted the horse and was gone.”28

As he neared the town, a man and woman escaping in a buggy told him his brothers had been killed. Samuel rode on at great speed. Some of the mob, expecting his return, had hidden in a thicket. They chased Samuel, shooting at him. A bullet passed through the top of his hat, but Samuel, an excellent horseman, outran them.

Samuel was the first Latter-day Saint to arrive at the jail,29 but by then Joseph and Hyrum were already dead. The violence was over, the mob had retreated, and Samuel had a piercing pain in his side.

Samuel helped Willard Richards take the two bodies and the severely wounded John Taylor to a nearby hotel owned by Artois Hamilton. That night Willard wrote a letter to Emma telling her that Joseph and Hyrum were dead. Samuel’s signature appears alongside that of Willard Richards and John Taylor.30

The next day, Samuel, Willard, and Artois took the bodies of Joseph and Hyrum in two wagons to the Mansion House in Nauvoo. Samuel drove the wagon carrying the body of his brother Joseph. A guard of eight men accompanied them.31

After Lucy viewed the bodies, Samuel said, “Mother, I have had a dreadful distress in my side ever since I was chased by the mob.”32

Though Samuel was in pain and Levira was only weeks away from delivering a baby, the family moved into a two-story frame house opposite the Mansion House. Samuel’s health continued to decline. On July 30, just 34 days after Joseph and Hyrum died, Samuel died. His young daughter Mary remembered how “silence gave way to sobs”33 after their father passed away. His cause of death was listed as bilious fever.34
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... m?lang=eng

[kirtland r.m.]

Next up, fasten your seat belts, "Glad Tidings from Cumorah", Cumorah, and the surrounding area. First, major battles which Anti Mormons deny(claiming the hill and surrounding area are clean of battle evidence), Book of Mormon plates, why the hill when burying the plates, more on the stone box and what Moroni would have had access to in that area to use as a cement, and much more.(yes, boatloads).

[kirtland r.m.]

Let's start this Cumorah information by laying some groundwork about the north eastern section of the United States. Here is part of a letter the Joseph wrote to Emma Smith.

“...Wandering over the plains of the Nephites, recounting occasionally the history of the Book of Mormon, roving over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls & their bones, as a proof of its divine authenticity… During our travels we visited several of the mounds which had been thrown up by the ancient inhabitants of this country-Nephites, Lamanites,, ect.“Joseph Smith Papers Letter to Emma Smith, 4 June 1834 Page 56https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... une-1834/3

On one such occasion, several of the brethren remembered Joseph having identified the bones of a Lamanite warrior named Zelph, who had died in battle. It is fascinating that Zelph was never mentioned in Book of Mormon scripture.

After reviewing all the sources, historian Kenneth Godfrey concluded, “Most sources agree that Zelph was a white Lamanite who fought under a leader named Onandagus (variously spelled). Beyond that, what Joseph said to his men is not entirely clear, judging by the variations in the available sources.”See Godfrey, “The Zelph Story,” 31–56; Donald Q. Cannon, “Zelph Revisited,” in Regional Studies in Latter-day Saint Church History: Illinois, ed. H. Dean Garrett (Provo, UT: Department of Church History and Doctrine, Brigham Young University, 1995), 97–111; Kenneth W. Godfrey, “What Is the Significance of Zelph in the Study of Book of Mormon Geography?” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 8, no. 2 (1999): 70–79, 88.[/url]

Based on the pre-publication manuscript of the “History of the Church” and the most consistent details found in the early primary sources, it appears that Zelph was a righteous Lamanite warrior who died in battle, possibly an inter-Lamanite conflict. This makes Zelph difficult to situate in terms of Book of Mormon history. One possibility, put forward by apostle John A. Widtsoe, is that “Zelph probably dated from a later time when Nephites and Lamanites had been somewhat dispersed and had wandered over the country.”John A. Widtsoe, “Is Book of Mormon Geography Known?” Improvement Era, July 1950, 547.

Scientific investigation of the Mound
Archaeologists, after excavating in the Elizabeth Mounds and Napoleon Hollow for ten years where the expressway bridge was to be built, received permission to do excavations in Naples-Russell Mound #8, located just a hundred and fifty yards to the north of the Elizabeth Mound group.[13] A scientific excavation of RN8 was carried out in 1990 by The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, in cooperation with the Center for American Archaeology at Kampsville, Illinois. The dig was funded by the Illinois Department of Transportation and supervised by archaeologist, Ken Farnsworth. The artifacts found during the excavation confirmed the mound to be a Hopewell burial mound, dating from 100 B.C. to 500 A.D.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naples_Mo ... te_note-14

100 B.C. to 500 A.D, squarely in the time frame of Book of Mormon history we are looking for. The mound is in west-central Illinois three miles east of Griggsville, Illinois.

John Taylor publisher of the Times and Seasons had been writing the History of Joseph Smith and included in the January 1, 1846 issue, the following account " ..on the top of the mound were stones which presented the appearance of three alters having been erected one above the other, according to ancient order; and human bones were strewn over the surface of the ground. The brethren procured a shovel and hoe, and removing the earth to the depth of about one foot discovered skeleton of a man, almost entire, and between his ribs was a Lamanitish arrow which evidently produced his death, Elder Brigham Young retained the arrow and the brethren carried some pieces of the skeleton to Clay county. …... I discovered that the person whose skeleton was before us, was a white Lamanite, a large thick set man, and a man of God. He was a warrior and chieftain under the great prophet Omandagus, who was known from the hill Cumorah, or Eastern sea, to the Rocky Mountains. His name was Zelph. The curse was taken from him, or at least in part ; one of his thigh bones was broken, by a stone flung from a sling while in battle years before his death. He was killed in battle, by the arrow found among his ribs, during the last great struggle of the Lammanites and Nephites.Taylor, John, "History of Joseph Smith", Times and Seasons, Vol 6, page 1076 – via Internet Archive

[kirtland r.m.]

Evidently the Nephites were all over America's heartland. I believe that much of the Book of Mormon history takes place in America's heartland, and we are just getting started on the evidence. If you don't subscribe to that, then that is your God given right.

Missouri

Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., stated that "When the Prophet Joseph Smith first visited Spring Hill he called it 'Tower Hill, a name I gave the place in consequence of the remains of an old Nephite altar or tower that stood there,' he wrote in his journal." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, p. 287.

According to Journal accounts, the Prophet Joseph taught the location of the ancient City of Manti, mentioned in the Book of Mormon during the march of Kirtland Camp: On September 25, 1838, having passed through Huntsville, Randolph County, Missouri the Prophet stated that this place was where “the ancient site of the city of Manti.”
Andrew Jensen, The Historical Record, Vol. 7, 601.

Additional interesting information: Samuel D. Tyler writes the following dated September 25, 1838:
We passed through Huntsville, Co, seat of Randolph Co, Pop. 450, and three miles further we bought 32 bu, of corn off one of the brethren who resides in this place. There are several of the brethren round about here and this is the ancient site of the City of Manti, which is spoken of in the Book of Mormon and this is appointed one of the Stakes of Zion, and it is in Randolph County, Missouri, three miles west of the county seat.
Journal of Samuel D. Tyler, Sept. 25, 1838, filed in Church Historian’s Office

Again, from the records of Kirtland Camp: The camp passed through Huntsville, in Randolph County, which has been appointed as one of the stakes of Zion, and is the ancient site of the City of Manti, and pitched tents at Dark Creek, Salt Licks. Millennial Star, vol. 16, 296.

Mormon claims that when he was eleven years old, he "was carried by my father into the land southward, even to the land of Zarahemla. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous almost, as it were the sand of the sea." Mormon 1:6-7. One non-Mormon observer in the 1800s claimed that anciently, there were 5,000 cities at once full of people in eastern North America. Another reported over 3,000 tumuli, or mounds, along the Ohio River alone. Today there are 170,000 known "Indian" archaeological sites in Illinois alone. Artifact collectors in Iowa, directly across the Mississippi from Nauvoo, have found tens of thousands of arrowheads in the vicinity. More wash up whenever the rivers flood.

D&;C 125:3 named the area in Iowa across from Nauvoo as "Zarahemla" and that location fits the proposed ancient Zarahemla when an abstract internal map based on the Book of Mormon text is overlaid on North America.http://firmlds.org/smoking-gun-book-mormon-geography/

Lot's more coming soon.

[kirtland r.m.]

Revelation before the plates were removed from Cumorah

“From this time forth, Joseph continued to receive instructions from the Lord, and we continued to get the children together every evening for the purpose of listening while he gave us a relation of the same. I presume our family presented an aspect as singular as any that ever lived upon the face of the earth—all seated in a circle, father, mother, sons and daughters, and giving the most profound attention to a boy, eighteen years of age.”

“We were now confirmed in the opinion that God was about to bring to light something upon which we could stay our minds, or that would give us a more perfect knowledge of the plan of salvation and the redemption of the human family. This caused us greatly to rejoice, the sweetest union and happiness pervaded our house, and tranquility reigned in our midst. During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined. He would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, mode of traveling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life among them.” Lucy Mack Smith, History of Joseph Smith by His Mother, pp. 82-83. This was before he received the plates. He must have received this by revelation, for he knew the whole story of the content of the record that is now the Book of Mormon. He had had five long visits with Moroni, and his mother says he received many revelations.” Eldred G. Smith, Conference Report, October 1967, pp. 82-84

Zions camp, more on Zelph, and the plains of the Nephites

Zelph was a warrior, a chieftain, an officer, a man of God, a thick set man, and a white Lamanite who had the curse removed from him. He fought for the Nephites in one of the last battles between the Nephites and Lamanites We will consider a possible scenario , and served under the Prophet Onandagus, who was known from Hill Cumorah to the Rocky Mountains. (See History of the Church 2:79-80) of where Zelph may fit into the history of the Book of Mormon, by using information from journals, scriptures and other quotes. (This is only speculation with our belief of Heartland Geography)

Perhaps the name Zelph is a masculine version of the Hebrew “zalaphah”, meaning “Raging Heat” – a fitting name for a zealous warrior. (Brown – Driver – Briggs – Gesenius Hebrew – Aramaic Lexicon, 2152, pg 273)

1. Zelph fought for the Nephites and died in one of the last battles with the Lamanites. This battle would have had to be in the Land of Zarahemla, near present day Valley City, Illinois as this is where Zelph was buried.

2. The beginning battle of the last battles between the Nephites and Lamanites began in Zarahemla near the Sidon River in 322 AD (Mormon 1:10). The last battle in the Land of Zarahemla was probably in 328 AD near the borders of the west sea. (Possibly Lake Michigan or Lake Erie. Mormon 2:6)

3. According to Joseph Fielding Smith, “In the Book of Mormon story the Lamanites were constantly crowding the Nephites back towards the north and east. If the battles in which Zelph took part were fought in the country traversed by the Zion’s Camp, then we have every reason to believe from what is written in the Book of Mormon, that the Nephites were forced farther and farther to the north and east until they found themselves in the land of Ripliancum, which both Ether and Mormon declare to us was the land of Ramah or Cumorah, a land of “many waters,” which “by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all.” This being true, what would be more natural then that Moroni, like his father Mormon, would deposit the plates in the land where the battles came to an end and the Nephites were destroyed? This Moroni says he did, and from all the evidence in the Book of Mormon, augmented by the testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith, these final battles took place in the territory known as the United States and in the neighborhood of the Great Lakes and hills of Western New York. And here Moroni found the resting place for the sacred instruments which had been committed to his care.”

4. In 327 AD, Mormon was now 16 years old and chosen to be the Nephite leader. (Mormon 2:1) In Mormon’s first battle, his army was afraid and headed toward the north countries to the city of Angola, which was probably still in the land of Zarahemla. Zelph may have been a contemporary of Mormon while together in the Land of Zarahemla.

The possible conclusion of where Zelph may fit into the historicity of the Book of Mormon is either, Zelph may have died in 322 AD before Mormon became the Nephite leader or, Zelph may have died in 327 AD in Mormon’s first battle against the Lamanites in the City of Angola before the Nephites went even farther north and east toward Cumorah.

Joseph Smith’s account of the history of Zelph was recorded by Wilford Woodruff in the Documentary History of the Church. The following is President Woodruff’s testimony regarding the truthfulness of that history, particularly the events that transpired during Zion’s Camp: “I am now called to preside over the only Temple there is on the earth, built for the salvation of the living and the dead. There are but a few of us living who were in Zion’s Camp. I will here say that God has inspired me to keep a journal and write the history of this Church, and I warn the future historians to give credence to my history; for my testimony is true, and the truth of its record will be manifest in the world to come. All the words of the Lord will be fulfilled upon the nations, which are written in this book. Wilford Woodruff, His Life and Labors, Matthias F. Cowley


...In this personal love letter to Emma, Joseph says Zion’s Camp traveled on the same plains as those Nephites of the Book of Mormon. Joseph also explains these “once beloved people of the Lord” built these mounds. These are the same lands as the Hopewell Mound Builder Civilization that thrived in the heartland of the United States from 100 BC to 500 AD according to archeologists and scientists.



What better description from Joseph Smith than “the plains of the Nephites” when speaking about the heartland of North America. Imagine rolling hills, vast prairies, rivers, lakes, streams, majestic meadows, areas of wilderness, pastures, flatlands and timberland, just as spoken of in places of scripture. “…And it came to pass that when they had come to the city of Nephihah, they did pitch their tents in the plains of Nephihah, which is near the city of Nephihah.” Alma 62:18 (see D&C 117:8, Ether 14:15). It seems very unlikely that you could confuse these plains with the jungles of South and Central America.https://bookofmormonevidence.org/zelph-of-zarahemla/

Cumorah

“From the time Father Bosley located near Avon, he found and plowed up axes and irons, and had sufficient to make his mill irons, and had always abundance of iron on hand without purchasing. In the towns of Bloomfield, Victor, Manchester, and in the regions round about, there were hills upon the tops of which were entrenchments and fortifications, and in them were human bones, axes, tomahawks, points of arrows, beads and pipes, which were frequently found; and it was a common occurrence in the country to plow up axes, which I have done many times myself.

I have visited the fortifications on the tops of those hills frequently, and the one near Bloomfield I have crossed hundreds of times, which is on the bluff of Honeyoye River, at the outlet of Honeyoye Lake.

In that region there are many small deep lakes, and in some of them the bottom has never been found. Fish abound in them. The hill Cumorah is a high hill for that country, and had the appearance of a fortification or entrenchment around it. In the State of New York, probably there are hundreds of these fortifications which are now visible, and I have seen them in many other parts of the United States. Readers of the Book of Mormon will remember that in this very region, according to that sacred record, the final battles were fought between the Nephites and Lamanites. At the hill Cumorah, the Nephites made their last stand prior to their utter extermination, A. D., 385. Thus was Heber preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles, above the graves of the ancients of Israel, whose records with the fullness of that Gospel, and the relics of their prowess and civilization, were now whispering from the dust.” Life of Heber C. Kimball by Orson F. Whitney Mounds at Cumorah

Hill Cumorah "is a place described in the Book of Mormon where approximately two hundred fifty thousand Nephite soldiers were killed in a final battle with the Lamanites, and where centuries earlier, the last battle of the Jaredites took place which destroyed their civilization."[1] That the location of Hill Cumorah events was in New York has been affirmed by people like Joseph Smith, Orson Pratt, Marion G. Romney, Anthony Ivins, B.H. Roberts, James Talmage, Joseph Fielding Smith, George Reynolds, and Bruce McConkie. It is also affirmed in a current CES institute manual[2], and was as recently as 1990 affirmed in a letter from Secretary to the First Presidency[3].

Lucy Mack Smith

"'Stop, father, stop,' said Joseph, 'it was the angel of the Lord. As I passed by the hill of Cumorah, where the plates are, the angel met me and said that I had not been engaged enough in the work of the Lord; that the time had come for the record to be brought forth; and that I must be up and doing and set myself about the things which God had commanded me to do.'" -History Of Joseph Smith By His Mother (Lucy Mack Smith)
[edit]

Everything below could be highlighted, so I will highlight nothing.

Orson Pratt

"The great and last battle, in which several hundred thousand Nephites perished was on the hill Cumorah, the same hill from which the plates were taken by Joseph Smith, the boy about whom I spoke to you the other evening." (Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, Feb. 11, 1872 Journal of Discourses Vol. 14, pg. 331)

"Thirty-six years prior to this time his nation was destroyed in what we term the State of New York, around about a hill, called by that people the Hill of Cumorah, when many hundreds of thousands of the Nephites-men, women and children, fell, during the greatest battle that they had had with the Lamanites." (Apostle Orson Pratt, Aug. 25, 1878 Journal of Discourses Vol. 20, pg. 62)

"These records were carried by Ether from the hill Ramah, afterwards called Cumorah, where the Jaredites were destroyed, as well as the Nephites." (Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, May 18, 1873 Journal of Discourses Vol. 16, pg. 50

"It will be, next Thursday night, 54 years since the Prophet Joseph Smith, then but a lad, was permitted by the angel of the Lord to take the gold plates of the Book of Mormon from the hill Cumorah, as it was called in ancient times, located in the State of New York. " (Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, Sept. 18, 1881 Journal of Discourses Vol. 22, pg. 224)

"Finally, they became so utterly wicked, so fully ripened for destruction, that one branch of the nation, called the Nephites, gathered their entire people around the hill Cumorah, in the State of New York , in Ontario County; and the Lamanites, the opposite army, gathered by millions in the same region. The two nations were four years in gathering their forces, during which no fighting took place; but at the end of that time, having marshalled all their hosts, the fighting commenced, the Lamanites coming upon the Nephites, and destroying all of them, except a very few, who had previously deserted over to the Lamanites." (Orson Pratt, April 6, 1874 Journal of Discourses Vol. 17, pg. 24)
[edit] Joseph Fielding Smith

"It is known that the Hill Cumorah where the Nephites were destroyed is the hill where the Jaredites were also destroyed. This hill was known to the Jaredites as Rama. It was approximately near to the waters of Ripliancum, which the Book of Ether says, "by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all." Mormon adds: "And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents round about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites."
In my estimation this information(as one who lived right off of Lake Erie) is a great description of the Great Lakes area.

"It must be conceded that this description fits perfectly the land of Cumorah in New York, as it has been known since the visitation of Moroni to the Prophet Joseph Smith, for the hill is in the proximity of the Great Lakes and also in the land of many rivers and fountains. Moreover, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself is on record, definitely declaring the present hill called Cumorah to be the exact hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon.

"Further, the fact that all of his associates from the beginning down have spoken of it as the identical hill where Mormon and Moroni hid the records, must carry some weight. It is difficult for a reasonable person to believe that such men as Oliver Cowdery, Brigham Young, Parley P. Pratt, Orson Pratt, David Whitmer, and many others, could speak frequently of the Spot where the Prophet Joseph Smith obtained the plates as the Hill Cumorah, and not be corrected by the Prophet, if that were not the fact. That they did speak of this hill in the days of the Prophet in this definite manner is an established record of history...." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation , Vol.3, Bookcraft, 1956, p.232-43.)
[edit] Marion G. Romney

"This second civilization to which I refer, the Nephites , flourished in America between 600 B.C. and A.D. 400. Their civilization came to an end for the same reason, at the same place, and in the same manner as did the Jaredites’" (President Marion G. Romney in General Conference, October 4, 1975, Ensign Nov. 1975 pg. 35)
[edit] B.H. Roberts

"This time it will have to do with so important a matter as a war of extinction of two peoples, the Nephites and the Jaredites, on the self same battle site, with the same 'hill' marking the axis of military movements. By the Nephites this 'hill' was called the 'Hill Cumorah,' by the Jaredites the 'Hill Ramah'; it was that same 'hill,' in which the Nephite records were deposited by Mormon and Moroni, and from which Joseph Smith obtained the Book of Mormon, therefore the 'Mormon Hill,' of today—since the coming forth of the Book of Mormon—near Palmyra, New York. (B.H. Roberts, Studies of the Book of Mormon, p.277)

"According to the Book of Mormon the Hill Cumorah of the Nephites--the Ramah of the Jaredites--must be regarded as a natural monument overlooking ancient and extensive battle fields. Around it early in the sixth century B.C., the Jaredites were destroyed. Here, also, a thousand years later, at the dose of the fourth century A. D., the Nephites met with practical annihilation in a battle which, whether judged by the importance of the changes it wrought in the affairs of one of the world's continents, or the number slain,a ranks as one of the world's great battles. In view of these Book of Mormon facts one would naturally expect to find some evidences in this section of the country for such wonderful historical events. Here one has a right to expect the evidences of military fortifications; for, though a thousand years had elapsed between the destruction of the Nephites and the discovery of America by the Europeans, still some military monuments would doubtless survive that length of time." (B.H. Roberts, New Witnesses for God, Vol.3, Ch.34, p.67)
[edit] James Talmage

"The hill, which was known by one division of the ancient peoples as Cumorah, by another as Ramah, is situated near Palmyra in the State of New York ." (Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, chapter 14)
[edit] Bruce McConkie

"Both the Nephite and Jaredite civilizations fought their final great wars of extinction at and near the Hill Cumorah (or Ramah as the Jaredites termed it), which hill is located between Palmyra and Manchester in the western part of the State of New York.

"Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery and many of the early brethren, who were familiar with all the circumstances attending the coming forth of the Book of Mormon in this dispensation, have left us a pointed testimony as to the identity and location of Cumorah or Ramah."(Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, page 174-175, Bookcraft 1966)
[edit] Others

"Cumorah, the artificial hill of north America, is well calculated to stand in this generation, as a monument of marvelous works and wonders. Around that mount died millions of the Jaredites; yea, there ended one of the greatest nations of this earth. In that day, her inhabitants spread from sea to sea, and enjoyed national greatness and glory, nearly fifteen hundred years. -- That people forsook the Lord and died in wickedness. There, too, fell the Nephites, after they had forgotten the Lord that bought them. There slept the records of age after age, for hundreds of years, even until the time of the Lord." (The Latter-day Saints' Messenger and Advocate, Vol.2, No.2, p.221)

"The passages which I have quoted from the Book of Mormon and the more extended discussion of this subject by Elder B. H. Roberts which was published in The Deseret News of March 3, 1928, definitely establish the following facts: That the Hill Cumorah, and the Hill Ramah are identical; that it was around this hill that the armies of both the Jaredites and Nephites, fought their great last battles; that it was in this hill that Mormon deposited all of the sacred records which had been entrusted to his care by Ammaron, except the abridgment which he had made from the plates of Nephi, which were delivered into the hands of his' son, Moroni. We know positively that it was in this hill that Moroni deposited the abridgment made by his father, and his own abridgment of the record of the Jaredites, and that it was from this hill that Joseph Smith obtained possession of them. " (President Anthony W. Ivins, Conference Report, April 1928-Morning Session)

"We visited the Hill Cumorah and were accorded the courtesy of going thereon by the wife of Mr. George Sampson, a brother of Admiral Wm. Sampson, who before his death owned the property.....We were delighted to be there. Looking over the surrounding country we remembered that two great races of people had wound up their existence in the vicinity, had fought their last fight, and that hundreds of thousands had been slain within sight of that hill."(Elder George Albert Smith, Conference Report, April 1906, p.56)

"As the fighting neared its end, Mormon gathered the remnant of his forces about a hill which they called Cumorah, located in what is now the western part of the state of New York." Oct. 1978 Conference Report

"My beloved brothers and sisters, I invite you to join in a prayer that while I speak you and I may both enjoy the Spirit. I will give you a lesson today that the Lord has taken great pains to bring to us... In the western part of the state of New York near Palmyra is a prominent hill known as the “hill Cumorah.” On July twenty-fifth of this year, as I stood on the crest of that hill admiring with awe the breathtaking panorama which stretched out before me on every hand, my mind reverted to the events which occurred in that vicinity some twenty-five centuries ago—events which brought to an end the great Jaredite nation... This second civilization to which I refer, the Nephites , flourished in America between 600 B.C. and A.D. 400. Their civilization came to an end for the same reason, at the same place, and in the same manner as did the Jaredites’... Now my beloved brethren and sisters everywhere, both members of the Church and nonmembers, I bear you my personal witness that I know that the things I have presented to you today are true—both those pertaining to past events and those pertaining to events yet to come." (Talk given by President Marion G. Romney in General Conference, October 4, 1975, Ensign Nov. 1975 pg. 35) [1] (Cf. CES student manual for Religion 121 and 122, p. 136.)

"One of the most noted places in ancient American history was the land in which was situated the hill known to the Jaredites as Ramah and to the Nephites as Cumorah. In its vicinity two great races were exterminated; for it was there that the last battles were fought in the history of both peoples. There also the sacred records of the Nephites found their final resting place." (Elder George Reynolds, The Story of the Book of Mormon, Ch.69, p.325)

"We dedicate the hill itself and the ground surrounding it [in Cumorah] and all of the materials that have been used in this monument; and we humbly pray unto Thee that it may be preserved from the elements, and that it may stand here as a testimony of God, of Jesus Christ, and of the dealings of Jesus Christ with the people that lived anciently upon this continent." (Dedicatory Prayer of the Angel Moroni Monument, July 21, 1935. Improvement Era, 1935, Vol. 38. September, 1935. No. 9.)
https://www.mormonwiki.org/Hill_Cumorah.html

Stay tuned, ha ha, I have months worth of material, from great sources.

[simpleton]

Probably is also going to be the place where the final extinction of the American Gentile race also happens. (at least the wicked of the gentiles)
Hill Cumorah probably has not seen its last battle yet. Just speculating....

[kirtland r.m.]

Probably is also going to be the place where the final extinction of the American Gentile race also happens. (at least the wicked of the gentiles)
Hill Cumorah probably has not seen its last battle yet. Just speculating....

D&c 84:

114 Nevertheless, let the bishop go unto the city of New York, also to the city of Albany, and also to the city of Boston, and warn the people of those cities with the sound of the gospel, with a loud voice, of the desolation and utter abolishment which await them if they do reject these things.

115 For if they do reject these things the hour of their judgment is nigh, and their house shall be left unto them desolate.

While you stand in the towers of the Temple and your eyes survey this glorious valley filled with cities and villages, occupied by tens and thousands of Latter-day Saints, you will then call to mind this visitation of President Young and his company. You will say: That was in the days when Presidents Benson and Maughan presided over us; that was before New York was destroyed by an earthquake. It was before Boston was swept into the sea, by the sea heaving itself beyond its bounds; it was before Albany was destroyed by fire; yea at that time you will remember the scenes of this day. Treasure them up and forget them not. President Young followed and said: 'What Brother Woodruff has said is revelation and will be fulfilled'. During a visit by the prophet, President Brigham Young, on August 22, 1863, Elder Wilford Woodruff spoke to the young people gathered and foretold of the coming of the Logan Utah Temple.

“Do you think there is calamity abroad now among the people?” Not much. All we have yet heard and all we have experienced is scarcely a preface to the sermon that is going to be preached. When the testimony of the Elders ceases to be given, and the Lord says to them, “Come home; I will now preach my own sermons to the nations of the earth,” all you now know can scarcely be called a preface to the sermon that will be preached with fire and sword, tempests, earthquakes, hail, rain, thunders and lightnings, and fearful destruction. What matters the destruction of a few railway cars? You will hear of magnificent cities, now idolized by the people, sinking in the earth, entombing the inhabitants. The sea will heave itself beyond its bounds, engulfing might Famine will spread over the nations, and nation will rise up against nation, kingdom against kingdom, and states against states, in our own country and in foreign lands; and they will destroy each other, caring not for the blood and lives of their neighbors, of their families, or for their own lives.
journal of Discourses, y cities.Brigham Young 8:30

[kirtland r.m.]

On Dec 17, 2019 Rian Nelson received an email from Kathy Burris giving him permission to post her email that she had sent to Rod Meldrum below. She mentioned it is fine to include her father’s name; Lee Ward, who has passed away. Kathy shared these experiences at the FIRM Foundation Conference in April 2016. We haven’t located the video tape(at the time of the posting).

From: Kathy Burris
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 11:24:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Amazing Palmyra Experiences

Brother Meldrum:

My name is Kathy Burris. Last year I contacted Wayne May regarding use of some of his PPT slides for a presentation that I often give at various Stake firesides. I grew up in Palmyra, NY, and over the years have had some very powerful experiences regarding the truthfulness of Joseph Smith, his family and the Book of Mormon.

...it INFURIATES me when the LDS scholars continue to state that the Hill Cumorah in New York could not possibly be the site of the last battle because there is no evidence. As a little girl, growing up in the area, arrow heads were as abundant as rocks. It was so common to find arrow heads that they didn’t seem any big deal. I remember collecting them and trading them with school kids as they were more popular than marbles, cards or what not.…that is how prevalent they are in that area.

...This experience, with so many other prophetic statements I have read from previous prophets and apostles, is another “nail in the coffin” so to speak that the two Hill Cumorah theory is just not relevant. I don’t know about you but when a prophet of the Lord prophesies in such a way, end of story. I have often found it perplexing why these LDS scholars seem to constantly ignore these prophetic statements. I know they are good men and women and their hearts are in the right place, but how can you dismiss these statements. I also remember years before that when President Benson came out to visit, he prophesied the same thing and it was revealed to the Stake at Stake Conference that was held at the Hill (once a year when I was young, they use to have Stake Conference at the Hill. It always amazed me how it never rained).

...He immediately stopped his digging and decided to contact the Church. Upon calling them to tell them he believes he found THE stone, the brother told him that they knew and already had 4 men on a flight out there to meet with him and that he was to wait until they got there before removal of the stone. He said it took 5 men to lift the stone. The stone was used in the filming of the movie and is currently kept in the granite vaults in UT. You may be aware from your historical research that the actual stone box was reported by Oliver Cowdery that “the casket had been washed down to the foot of the Hill.” Thus, the box is no longer.

...A few years later, in 1990, the church rewrote the script for the Hill Cumorah Pageant. This required that the entire front face of the Hill be torn up in order to fit the new stage. I remember at this time I was working at the Hill for the Church. My father and family were well respected, especially anything pertaining to history, artifacts, etc. Therefore, all the senior missionaries knew my father and family very well as he was often sought after for his “special” local tours. One day as I was working there, and having a great relationship with the senior missionaries, one of the elders quietly asked me to come with him. he took me to a room in the Visitor Center that was locked. Upon entering, in there were boxes upon boxes of arrow heads. He told me that during the current dig, they were uncovering all these arrow heads. The Church asked the current contracted excavator (which happened to be [L…] and his crew), to quietly, discreetly keep all artifacts they may find and store them quickly. They did not want anything leaked to the public for fear of a mass “run” to the Hill, which could potentially cause liability issues and safety concerns during excavation. Not to mention it could hold up the process and they were on a very tight deadline for completion for the upcoming Pageant. I remember how in awe I was to see so many boxes. He told me not to touch any, and that he probably shouldn’t be showing me, but he knew I would appreciate seeing these artifacts for myself, knowing how much my father and I were local historians. It wasn’t but a few days later he approached me and said that when he went to the room that morning, they were all gone. He said he believed the Church had come and quietly removed them in the middle of the night for safety reasons.

Much more of the email here.https://bookofmormonevidence.org/arrowh ... t-cumorah/

I have information on these things from other sources as well and I will be posting them on this thread, hope you can share them.

[Cruiserdude]

One day as I was working there, and having a great relationship with the senior missionaries, one of the elders quietly asked me to come with him. he took me to a room in the Visitor Center that was locked. Upon entering, in there were boxes upon boxes of arrow heads. He told me that during the current dig, they were uncovering all these arrow heads. The Church asked the current contracted excavator (which happened to be [L…] and his crew), to quietly, discreetly keep all artifacts they may find and store them quickly. They did not want anything leaked to the public for fear of a mass “run” to the Hill, which could potentially cause liability issues and safety concerns during excavation. Not to mention it could hold up the process and they were on a very tight deadline for completion for the upcoming Pageant. I remember how in awe I was to see so many boxes. He told me not to touch any, and that he probably shouldn’t be showing me, but he knew I would appreciate seeing these artifacts for myself, knowing how much my father and I were local historians. It wasn’t but a few days later he approached me and said that when he went to the room that morning, they were all gone. He said he believed the Church had come and quietly removed them in the middle of the night for safety reasons.

Much more of the email here.https://bookofmormonevidence.org/arrowh ... t-cumorah/

I have information on these tings from other sources as well and I will be posting them on this thread, hope you can share them.

Wooooow

[kirtland r.m.]

“…Here, between these hills, the entire power and national strength of both the Jaredites and Nephites were destroyed. By turning to the 529th and 530th pages of the Book of Mormon, you will read Mormon's account of the last great struggle of his people, as they were encamped round this hill Cumorah. In this valley fell the remaining strength and pride of a once powerful people, the Nephites—once so highly favored of the Lord, but at that time in darkness, doomed to suffer extermination by the hand of their barbarous and uncivilized brethren. From the top of this hill, Mormon, with a few others, after the battle, gazed with horror upon the mangled remains of those who, the day before, were filled with anxiety, hope, or doubt.” Oliver Cowdery's Letter VII Joseph Smith Papers “Letter VII,” LDS Messenger and Advocate, July 1835, 1:155–159 .

OUT OF THE DUST FINDING HUMAN REMAINS ON THE SAMPSON FARM

by Glen Ellis & Mark Ellis edited by Wayne N. May

Following up on the letter from J. Golden Barton from 1920 (Article at the end), here is a first-hand account from family members of the LDS community sharing a missionary experience while serving in the Palmyra, New York area during the1930’s and 1940’s. A second testimony of the “white dust” that was discussed by Apostle James E. Talmage and was recorded by the Ellis family in their journal. Permission to use this material was granted to myself, Wayne May, by Mark Ellis on April 6, 2018, while attending the Firm Foundation Presenting the 21st Book of Mormon Conference held at Layton, Utah.

“When I was plowing one day on the far end of the Sampson farm, (eastside of Hill Cumorah) Dad came by in the car, and suggested that I cross over the fence line into what had been he Bennett farm and plow up a field which had not been plowed for many years. I did so, and found the land to be exceptional, the soil was black and rich, the old Farmall H purred right along, pulling two 14” plows, which sunk into the maximum depth.
Above: Google Earth topo map with markings setup by Mark Ellis showing the length and wetland area of the farm.

When you plow a field for the first time, you lay out the first furrow very carefully, because if that furrow is crooked, so will be all the subsequent ones. The trick is to walk off the distance from the corners of the piece to a post or tree in the middle of the far side fence, then measure the same distance from the corresponding fence corner to your tractor. They you keep your eye on that center post, lining up the radiator cap with the target post, just like aiming a gun. It works every time.

After the initial furrow is laid down nice and straight, you just keep one wheel in the furrow and they all come nice and straight, you can even look behind to enjoy the beautiful sight of the plow turning over matching black ribbons of soil. Getting back to the point of this tale, after about 6 or 7 rounds I looked back at the new sod turning, and to my amazement it suddenly turned over a milky white color for a distance of about 12 or 15 feet, then back to black! The next two rounds the same thing happened, so that there was a white patch about 12 to 15 feet long and about 6 to 8 feet wide. I scooped up a handful of the white material which Dad sent off to Cornell College in Ithaca, NY; they identified it as being ancient human bone material.

Glen Ellis told me many times that he was plowing the Sampson Farm on the “other side” of the Hill Cumorah when he found the strange soil. Normally he did not plow that area because it was too wet. One year, he was able to plow the Sampson Farm field and noticed that the soil was an odd color, but that it changed color soon after it was turned over. He told his dad (Merlin Ellis) about the soil, who collected some of the odd soil and turned it into Cornell “College.” The analysis reported the material to be human bone.

I suspect that Glen used an International Farmall and pulled a 2-bottom plow with about 14-inch plowing depth. Time frame would have been between 1938 to 1946, likely the latter time frame.

The color change is easy to interpret. The soil was highly organic and was frequently under water. As the organic material in the soil degrades and consumes the oxygen in the soil/water the soil becomes anoxic. Anaerobic degradation generates hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg gas) that is liberated when the soil is turned. The soil would have changed from black to a lighter color or even to white as the hydrogen sulfide volatilized, 15 minutes likely.

Locations? I don ‘t know where the Sampson Farm was located, but Glen indicated the “other side” of the Hill Cumorah was the location of the Sampson farm. The “other side” of the Hill could have been the east side of the Hill or the south end. I would look for anything that appears to normally be wet, saturated or marshy. So, I also attach a map of wetlands around the Hill (Cumorah), or I would also look at woodlands.” By Glen Ellis & Mark Ellis edited by Wayne N. May Ancient American Magazine CUMORAH LAND AMERICA’S ANCIENT HISTORY OF WESTERN NEW YORK LDS Special Edition VIII page 46:

The Sampson Farm is next to the hill Cumorah, take a look at this google image.https://i2.wp.com/www.bofm.blog/wp-cont ... .png?ssl=1.

Elder James E. Talmage of the Council of the Twelve made the following statements to Elder Golden Jensen who was serving as secretary of the Eastern States Mission in New York in 1920, which Elder Jensen recorded in a letter to a friend in 1954:

Dear Brother Dixon: June 10, 1954 ,

In keeping with your request, I will endeavor to give you herein an account of an experience which I greatly enjoyed while laboring as secretary of the Eastern States Mission.

In the summer of 1920, 1 received an assignment to attend a special meeting with the missionaries laboring in Buffalo, New York. The day following the meeting I met George W. McCune, my mission president, and the late Dr. James E, Talmage who had driven to Buffalo from Detroit, Michigan. At their invitation I accompanied them to New York City. Enroute, however, we proceeded to Rochester, thence to the city of Palmyra, where we visited briefly. We then proceeded to the Joseph Smith Farm, where we left our car and walked to the sacred grove. As we were about to enter the grove, Dr. Talmage stopped, removed his shoes, and requested that President McCune and I remain where we were while he entered and prayed, alone in that sacred and holy spot, to the Living God.
Ancient American Magazine LDS Edition 8 by Wayne May $6.95 There is only one Hill Cumorah and it’s in up-state New York. Wayne May will share information about the archaeology, geology, and history of this significant area of New York.

After a while he called us to join him, whereupon he retold the story of the boy Prophet and of the glorious vision which Joseph had beheld, while President McCune and I sat and wept with joy.

Leaving the grove, we went immediately to the Hill Cumorah and viewed the spot where the Angel Moroni had, ages before, deposited the golden plates according to the instructions of the Lord. These records were later revealed and delivered to Joseph the Prophet and were translated by him forth to the world The Book of Mormon.

All the while I was being thrilled and edified by the continuous flow of information and wisdom that came from the marvelous store of knowledge of Elder Talmage. I think I shall never forget how he looked, standing with bared head on the crest of the Hill Cumorah and with outstretched arm describing as he seemed to visualize that last great battle between the armies of the Nephites and Lamanites, calling attention to the significance of the hill as a vantage point for the forces who might gain control or possession of it.

At this time he stated that he had found as a result of a survey and extensive analysis made by him, while a student in an eastern university, the soils of the surrounding area to be very rich in calcium, and phosphate content, in the soils particularly adjacent to the Hill Cumorah. With further investigation he discovered that there was a lack of these elements in the land which lay further than a few miles in radius in any direction from the Hill Cumorah. To him, this discovery was indicative of the fact that there was decaying of bones of the Nephite and Lamanite armies that perished there.

To Apostle Talmage there was no doubt as to the reality of those great events as related in the Book of Mormon, nor was there any doubt in his mind as to the place where they had occurred.

I commend you, Brother Dixon, for your keen interest in the visible and physical evidences which declare the truth of the Book of Mormon; and may the Lord bless you in your endeavor to bring attention of same to closer view.
Sincerely your brother, Golden Jensen (Riley L. Dixon, Just One Cumorah, 1958, 147-149)

Bone Heaps on the Genesee River

“My flats were cleared before I saw them; and it was the opinion of the oldest Indians that were at Genishau, at the time that I first went there, that all the flats on the Genesee river were improved before any of the Indian tribes ever saw them. I well remember that soon after I went to Little Beard’s Town, the banks of Fall-Brook were washed off, which left a large number of human bones uncovered. The Indians then said that those were not the bones of Indians, because they had never heard of any of their dead being buried there; but that they were the bones of a race of men who a great many moons before, cleared that land and lived on the flats” (Nephites, Jaredites). A Narrative of the Life of Mrs. Mary Jemison Author: James E. Seaver 1823 Chapter VII page 61

“In the position of the skeletons, there was none of the signs of ordinary Indian burial; but evidences that the bodies were thrown in promiscuously, and at the same time. The conjecture might well be indulged that it had been the theatre of a sanguinary battle, terminating in favor of the assailants, and a general massacre, A thigh bone of unusual length, was preserved for a considerable period by a physician of Lockport, and excited much curiosity.” (Turner, p. 27) [Sanguinary means: Eager for bloody violence; bloodthirsty].

One Half Mile from Mormon Hill(Cumorah)

“In 1922 “on the Rose farm, one half mile from Mormon Hill” a number of large skeletons, stone implements, copper ornaments, a copper axe of unusual type, and other articles were found. At this historic spot were found “many of unusual physique, tall, long-limbed, finely formed skulls, teeth finely shaped.” (Fred Haughton, Seneca Nation, p. 48)

Now that was especially interesting when you read accounts of the large size of the Urim and Thummim Breastplate and interpreters(the glasses) which were there with the plates. There are quotes throughout this forum on this subject.

Previous Superior Native Cultures

“The battles are described as often having culminated in the destruction of previous, superior Native cultures which had taken final refuge in forts at the tops of hills, including the general region of the hill known to Mormons as Cumorah. In the town of Camillus, in the same county of Onondaga . . . there are two ancient forts . . . One is on a very high hill, and its area covers about three acres. . . . The ditch was deep and the eastern wall ten feet high. In the centre was a large lime stone of an irregular shape.” A Memoir on the Antiquities of the Western Parts of the State of New-York, Addressed to the Honourable Samuel L. Mitchill, a Vice-President of the Literary and Philosophical Society of New York . . . by Dewitt Clinton . . . Read Before the Society November 13th, 1817 De Witt Clinton (1769-1828)

War with a Light Skinned People

“Chief of Seminole Tribe: “We had a war long ago with a light skinned people around the Great Lakes. We conquered them but we had so much respect for their warrior chief that we buried him at the mouth of the Oswego River that is in New York State. We don’t discuss this very much because it is an embarrassment to us. President Rawson then asked why this is an embarrassment, and the Chief replied, “ Our history is written on metal plates and buried in a hill in New York, but we don’t know which hill!” (Talk given to missionaries in training at the MTC, Provo, Utah 1979, by President Murray J. Rawson).You can hear this talk using this linkhttps://archive.org/details/MurrayRawso ... Traditions Could be better quality but is serviceable.

[kirtland r.m.]

By the way, you may have read about this, but here is a little more detail.

TESTIMONY OF DAVID WHITMER TO HILL CUMORAH. Another testimony of interest is that of David Whitmer given to Elders Orson Pratt and Joseph F. Smith in September 1878, when they paid him a visit at his home in Richmond. To these brethren he said: “When I was returning to Fayette, with Joseph and Oliver, all of us riding in the wagon. Oliver and I on an old-fashioned wooden spring seat and Joseph behind us—while traveling along in a clear open space, a very pleasant, nice-looking old man suddenly appeared by the side of our wagon and saluted us with, ‘Good morning, it is very warm,’ at the same time wiping his face or forehead with his hand. We returned the salutation, and, by a sign from Joseph, I invited him to ride if he was going our way; but he said very pleasantly, ‘No, I am going to Cumorah.’ This name was something new to me; I did not know what Cumorah meant. We all gazed at him and at each other, and as I looked around inquiringly of Joseph, the old man instantly disappeared, so that I did not see him again.”

Here is what is usually not included, just a little more detail, but it is interesting.

Joseph F. Smith asked: “Did you notice his appearance?”

David Whitmer: “I should think I did. He was, I should think, about five feet eight or nine inches tall and heavy set…. His hair and beard were white, like Brother Pratt’s, but his beard was not so heavy. I also remember that he had on his back a sort of knapsack with something in, shaped like a book.”

[kirtland r.m.]

One of the often repeated Anti Mormon ideas about church history is that for some time the hill where Joseph received the Book of Mormon plates was not referred to as Cumorah, but that this came later. Quotes I am putting up on this thread obviously show that they hope you will not do your homework, or that just by saying such a thing and many more things as well, most people will buy them and not investigate. The third possibility is that a number of the Anti's aren't doing much credible(ya think) research. I have not only seen this, but the constant passing around of the same old lame arguments and information for many generations.

Here is more on this subject.

Lucy Mack Smith

Lucy Mack Smith wrote that Joseph Smith referred to the hill near Palmyra as Cumorah immediately after his visit there.
Stop, father, stop, it was the angel of the Lord. As I passed by the hill of Cumorah, where the plates are, the angel met me and said that I had not been engaged enough in the work of the Lord:…Lucy Mack Smith, History of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 100

When Oliver Cowdery and Parley P. Pratt were serving their mission to the Lamanites, Oliver related a brief history of the Book of Mormon to the Delaware Chief. Elder Pratt recorded Oliver’s discussion in his autobiography. Explaining how the Book of Mormon was a history of the Lamanite people, Oliver said:

“This book, which contained these things, was hid in the earth by Moroni, in a hill called by him, Cumorah, which hill is now in the state of New York, near the village of Palmyra, in Ontario county.” (Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, pg. 59)

“Further, the fact that all of his associates from the beginning down have spoken of it as the identical hill where Mormon and Moroni hid the records, must carry some weight. It is difficult for a reasonable person to believe that such men as Oliver Cowdery, Brigham Young, Parley P. Pratt, Orson Pratt, David Whitmer, and many others, could speak frequently of the spot where the Prophet Joseph Smith obtained the plates as the Hill Cumorah, and not be corrected by the Prophet, if that were not the fact. That they did speak of this hill in the days of the Prophet in this definite manner is an established record of history….” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation , Vol.3, Bookcraft, 1956, p.232-43.)

In fact, here is a more complete list. Oliver Cowdery, Heber J. Grant, Martin Harris, Heber C. Kimball, J. Golden Kimball, Moroni, Orson Pratt, Parley P. Pratt, B. H. Roberts, Hyrum Smith, Joseph Smith Jr., Joseph F. Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith, Lucy Mack Smith, James E. Talmage, Wilford Woodruff, Brigham Young

Again, and I have put up lot's of material on this thread already on this, let's return to the battlefield and the "Anti Mormon" claim that there is no evidence of battles at Cumorah. By the way, I have four relatives who over their lifetimes, have scoured Utah"s west desert looking for authentic arrowheads. I have been told that in searching if you are watching carefully it takes about four hours of searching to find one arrowhead.

Now, I hope you saw information about weapons, human bone, and fortifications further back on this thread, including a google image of the adjacent Sampson Farm form Cumorah, but here is more info..

Elder Claude Taylor and others visited the area in 1901, and Susan Young Gates recorded the following:
“Outside the farmhouse Elder Taylor and myself noted several bushel baskets filled with arrow heads and I asked Mrs. Samson (local resident) what they were. She said they had just begun to plow up the hill Cumorah and around the hill, to plant some crops, and they turned up these arrow heads by the basket full” (J. M. Sjodahl, An Introduction to the Study of the Book of Mormon , p.7)

President George Albert Smith who reported in 1906 of visiting the Hill Cumorah

“We visited the Hill Cumorah and were accorded the courtesy of going thereon by the wife of Mr. George Sampson, a brother of Admiral Wm. Sampson, who before his death owned the property. When we went up there and looked around, we felt that we were standing on holy ground. The brethren located, as near as they thought was possible, the place from which the plates of the Book of Mormon were taken by the Prophet. We were delighted to be there. Looking over the surrounding country we remembered that two great races of people had wound up their existence in the vicinity, had fought their last fight, and that hundreds of thousands had been slain within sight of that hill. Evidence of the great battles that have been fought there in days gone by are manifest in the numerous spear and arrow-heads that have been found by farmers while plowing in that neighborhood. We were fortunate enough to obtain a few of the arrowheads” (Conference Report, April 1906, p.56).

Much more to come.

[kirtland r.m.]

When Joseph Smith made his “fantastic” claims and published the Book of Mormon as an ancient history of the American Indians, some scoffed at the idea that a major battle had anciently taken place in the local vicinity. However, evidence was soon produced that documented that this region of the country did indeed once possess a heavy Indian population, and that a terrible battle had taken place in that locality. bookofmormonevidence.org

In New York State Bulletin #2 it is documented that several miles south of “Mormon Hill,” as it was then called, a site was found where flint arrowheads and spear points and many unfinished weapons were found in great abundance. Brenton G. Yorgason, Little Known Evidences of the Book of Mormon, 1989, p. 10.

“At one time a fierce battle was fought near where Buffalo, N.Y., now stands, wherein two million were lying strewn upon the earth, slain in battle and no one to bury them, till the stench drove them southward to the Hill Ramah, which was called Cumorah by the Nephite race.” Reminiscences of Joseph the Prophet, by Edward Stevenson 1893

Jaredite destruction at Ramah(later called Cumorah)

For this great battle they were four years preparing, gathering the people together from all parts of the land, and arming men and women, and even children. The battle lasted eight days, and the result was the complete extermination of the Jaredite nation...Brigham Young, Jr. and George Q. Cannon The Latter-Day Saints’ Millennial Star,(35 (33): 513-16), Tuesday, August 19th, 1873

Writing in 1851, E. G. Squire says that in the region: “Human bones of men, women, and children of both sexes were thrown together promiscuously by the thousands.” He notes large quantities of pottery, pipes, flint arrow-heads, stone hatchets and other implements were also found there. He further states that the ancient relics unearthed in the vicinity (which he estimates to be several hundred years old) showed considerable evidence of Hebrew origin. (See E. G. Squier, Antiquities of New York, 1851, pp. 137-138.)