Anyone read the apocrypha?

[creator]

I do like the various Books of Enoch. The " Animal Apocalypse" is super interesting.

[Chip]

I do like the various Books of Enoch. The " Animal Apocalypse" is super interesting.

Talk about the animal apocalypse in the book of Enoch.

ChatGPT:

In the Book of Enoch, an animal apocalypse is described as a time when the wickedness of humanity has become so great that God sends judgment in the form of punishment upon the earth. According to the text, during this time, the earth will be filled with violence and destruction, and the animals will rise up against humanity. They will be given the power to speak and will accuse human beings of their evil deeds. The text also describes how the animals will be punished along with humans, as they too will be destroyed in the final judgment. It should be noted that the Book of Enoch is not considered part of the canon of the Bible by most Christian denominations and its authenticity and interpretation is a matter of debate among scholars.

[creator]

That's not at all how I remember it.

[Niemand]

The Animal Apocalypse scenario seems to be a common trope in horror and even children's films. Usually nature wreaking vengeance on meat-eaters and polluters.

Here are two that spring to mind

[Niemand]

This is the complete list of posts I've done on the Apocrypha as found in the West (RC Bibles, KJV (extended), Luther, Wycliffe), and Eastern Orthodox Churches. I haven't got the Oriental Orthodox canon down yet – that's the Copts, Ethiopians, Armenians etc have a few books that I haven't dealt with yet e.g. Enoch, Jubilees etc. (They're not the same as Eastern Orthodox despite the name.) Also some Jewish books such as the Zohar, and Talmudic traditions etc, the Koran etc which may be said to be vaguely connected to the Bible.

This is different of course from the numerous other books out there which don't feature in any Christian canon like the Apocalypse of Abraham. I'm not referring to them as Apocrypha to avoid confusion. This is the complete Catholic/Orthodox Apocrypha plus Laodiceans which I include because it is in Wycliffe's Bible, the first full English Bible translation.

The posts below have audiobook links. I have given preference to the KJV translation where available. (Those in the KJV Apocrypha are asterisked.) The posts I recommend reading are in bold.

* 1 Esdras
viewtopic.php?p=1343974

* 2 Esdras (the most relevant book in the Apocrypha?) inc. audiobook link. Especially recommended, best prophetic book in the Apocrypha.
viewtopic.php?p=1344302

* 1 Maccabees – best of the Apocryphal history books
viewtopic.php?t=69454

* 2 Maccabees – some curious theological points.
viewtopic.php?t=69468

3 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69496

4 Maccabees
viewtopic.php?t=69515

* Book of Baruch and the * Epistle of Jeremy/Jeremiah [Full text of the Epistle quoted in post, but not Baruch]
viewtopic.php?t=69433

* Book of Tobit – a good story plus some interesting theological points.
viewtopic.php?p=1341501

* Apocryphal additions to Esther
viewtopic.php?p=1343414

* Bel and the Dragon – three good stories with deeper meanings? [Full text quoted in post]
viewtopic.php?t=69261

* Prayer of Azarias (or Azariah) and Hymn of the Three Children [Full text quoted in post]
viewtopic.php?p=1341611

* Book of Judith – includes discussion of similarities to the Book of Mormon
viewtopic.php?t=69402

* Book of Susanna
viewtopic.php?t=69386

* Wisdom of Solomon –at least one point of contact with Mormonism, connections with New Testament
viewtopic.php?t=69469

* Book of Sirach or Ecclesiasticus – possibly quoted in New Testament
viewtopic.php?t=69412

* Prayer of Mannases (aka Mannaseh) [Full text quoted in post]
viewtopic.php?t=69263

Psalm 151 [Full text quoted in post]
viewtopic.php?t=63875

The Book of Enoch, NT, POGP & D&C
viewtopic.php?t=69577

The Book of Jubilees, also known as Leptogenesis or Little Genesis found in Ethiopian Bibles
viewtopic.php?t=69548

Epistle to the Laodiceans (NT, appeared in Wycliffe's English Bible) [Full text quoted in post]
viewtopic.php?t=64025

3 Corinthians, another NT Pauline Epistle which has appeared in some Syriac and Armenian Bibles into modern times. Full text quoted in post.
viewtopic.php?t=69567

The Book of Odes – this is an Eastern Orthodox work of limited interest, but I included for the sake of completeness.
viewtopic.php?t=69470

And also
Antilegomena: the books which barely made it into the Bible - Revelation, the Song of Solomon, Jude, Esther etc.
viewtopic.php?t=69609
---

Not quite in the same line but the modern Nemenhah records.
viewtopic.php?t=69075

[Niemand]

I've also heard mention of the "Ethiopian Bible" which supposedly contains stories not found anywhere else. From what I understand though, most of this has never been translated. Anyone know more about this?

My attempt to start a thread on this. It seems to be seriously understudied and not well known outside Ethiopia. A summary of what I can pick up:

* The Ethiopians split up some books we know (Proverbs) and combine some. In others the numbering is different.
* The Deuterocanon (Judith, Tobit etc) of Rome seems to be mostly in there.
* They preserve some ancient books not known elsewhere such as Enoch and Jubilees.
* They also have some ecclesiastical works. (Their equivalent of church handbook.
* They don't seem to have additional gospels or letters of Paul surprisingly.

viewtopic.php?p=1348804&hilit=Ethiopian#p1348804

Two notable works still in the Ethiopian canon.

The Book of Enoch, NT, POGP & D&C
viewtopic.php?69577

The Book of Jubilees, also known as Leptogenesis or Little Genesis found in Ethiopian Bibles
viewtopic.php?69548

[Niemand]

Some new material, mostly on the New Testament Apocrypha.

Is Q canonical? How about the Gospel of Thomas? The answer's more complicated than you think.
viewtopic.php?p=1353810

Gospel of Nicodemus, aka Acts of Pilate – as tested on Mennonites
viewtopic.php?t=69760

The Shepherd of Hermas - inspired literature or pagan trash? (NT)
viewtopic.php?t=69650

The Epistle of Barnabas (NT Apocrypha) - link between OT and NT, or not?
viewtopic.php?t=69679

The Didache or Teachings of the Apostles (NT)
viewtopic.php?t=69698

[Niemand]

I've put the ones I think are more interesting in bold.
1 Meqabyan (Ethiopian canon), another lost book?
https://ldsfreedomforum.comviewtopic.php?t=69855

2 Meqabyan (Ethiopian canon), - the return of Tsirutsaydan
https://ldsfreedomforum.comviewtopic.php?t=69971

3 Meqabyan (Ethiopian canon): a question of Satan... another lost book
viewtopic.php?p=1367649

Four Apocryphal Psalms - 152, 153, 154, 155
viewtopic.php?t=69985

1 Clement: Papist propaganda or a window into the early church?
viewtopic.php?p=1368842

2 Clement – inclement Gnosticism?
viewtopic.php?t=70327

Other related topics

My thread about the Koran, and its use of figures from the Bible, the Apocrypha and extracanonical material. How useful a source is the Koran itself? Does it have any real extra information on Biblical figures? This is something of work in progress.
viewtopic.php?t=70169

The LDS Bible Dictionary on Lost Books and non-canonical works referred to in the Bible.
viewtopic.php?t=69805

The Samaritans, their canon and its significance
viewtopic.php?t=69905


Was Zoroaster/Zarathustra a lost prophet of God? Some surprising links between this largely forgotten figure and Judaism, plus the Gathas etc.
viewtopic.php?t=65938

[Niemand]

Another one of my apocrypha posts in which I deal with a number of works. This one is on the Restored Branch, an English LDS microsect and its canon which includes works such as the Nag Hammadi and Gnostic texts: these are the Gospel of Peter, the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Phillip, the Gospel of Truth (sic), the Letter of the Apostle Paul, the Sophia (Wisdom) of Jesus the Christ, the Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles and the Letter of Peter which he sent to Philip.
viewtopic.php?t=70413

The one that sticks out to me from this group (other than Thomas) is the Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles. The rest are of varying value and some are fragmentary.

Do any of these Apocrypha books get into whether Jesus was married, or not?

There was a small fragment that was found a few years ago that was claimed to. It is generally thought to be a hoax to make some money.

They are usually gnostic texts. Ive seen them quoted on this forum from time to time, like the Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Thomas etc.

I have a soft spot for Thomas, although I think it is a mixed bag. Neither Mary nor Thomas directly state that Jesus was married though.

[Niemand]

The Two Apocalypses of Peter: Guides to the universe or sadism? The ancient Apocalypse of Peter and the Arabic Apocalypse of Peter.
viewtopic.php?t=70682

Kirtland RM's thread on the gnostic books Pistis Sophia and Book of Jeu
viewtopic.php?t=70659

Kirtland RM's on the Pistis Sophia and Book of Mormon
viewtopic.php?t=52956

Kirtland RM on the Forty Day Teachings of Christ in the Books of Jeu and the Pistis Sophia: A Gnostic Endowment
viewtopic.php?p=1378097

My thread on a bizarre Middle Eastern sect and their beliefs. Are the Yezidis of the Middle East an ancient Satanist group or a lost Jewish tribe? And what is the connection between their religion and today's rainbow flag? Is this strange group simply misunderstood?
viewtopic.php?t=70625

[Ymarsakar]

Only one I read fully was 1st Enoch and parts of 2nd and 3rd Enoch.

I was guided by the HSpirit to read 1st Enoch for some unfathomable reason at the time in 2017, but now I kind of get why. Those DNA manipulations, transhumanism, and giants/watcher stuff coming back once again.

I have skimmed the various other apocryphal, and some were more useful than others but I am deeply suspicious of human minds translating and interpreting these works for me. Even if the papers are close to the originals, once translated, Satan gets to "edit" the script so to speak for a new generation.

https://sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/index.htm This is a rather comprehensive index that I used

Ethiopean church doctrine holds Enoch as being canon. This would be the line of Bathesheba I suspect.

[Niemand]

Only one I read fully was 1st Enoch and parts of 2nd and 3rd Enoch.

I was guided by the HSpirit to read 1st Enoch for some unfathomable reason at the time in 2017, but now I kind of get why. Those DNA manipulations, transhumanism, and giants/watcher stuff coming back once again.

I have skimmed the various other apocryphal, and some were more useful than others but I am deeply suspicious of human minds translating and interpreting these works for me. Even if the papers are close to the originals, once translated, Satan gets to "edit" the script so to speak for a new generation.

https://sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/index.htm This is a rather comprehensive index that I used

Ethiopean church doctrine holds Enoch as being canon. This would be the line of Bathesheba I suspect.

There are hundreds of them. I've restricted myself to those which have been canon to some church or other. That's why I haven't really been near 2 or 3 Enoch so far. Others turn up which are tiny fragments or not much use at all.

Some of the works are very short, and can be read in under half an hour.

I recommend 2 Esdras (aka 4 Ezra or the Apocalypse of Ezra), which is proper Apocrypha and the Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles, which is fairly short, but has a lot to say about wealth corrupting the church... that one counts as Pseudepigrapha rather than Apocrypha.

[Ymarsakar]

Only one I read fully was 1st Enoch and parts of 2nd and 3rd Enoch.

I was guided by the HSpirit to read 1st Enoch for some unfathomable reason at the time in 2017, but now I kind of get why. Those DNA manipulations, transhumanism, and giants/watcher stuff coming back once again.

I have skimmed the various other apocryphal, and some were more useful than others but I am deeply suspicious of human minds translating and interpreting these works for me. Even if the papers are close to the originals, once translated, Satan gets to "edit" the script so to speak for a new generation.

https://sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/index.htm This is a rather comprehensive index that I used

Ethiopean church doctrine holds Enoch as being canon. This would be the line of Bathesheba I suspect.

There are hundreds of them. I've restricted myself to those which have been canon to some church or other. That's why I haven't really been near 2 or 3 Enoch so far. Others turn up which are tiny fragments or not much use at all.

Some of the works are very short, and can be read in under half an hour.

I recommend 2 Esdras (aka 4 Ezra or the Apocalypse of Ezra), which is proper Apocrypha and the Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles, which is fairly short, but has a lot to say about wealth corrupting the church... that one counts as Pseudepigrapha rather than Apocrypha.

I used to care about what was canon or not, until I just let all of that go. My faith framework is a lot more direct now. When it was written that Jeshua said that you had to turn on your mother, father, sister, brothers to follow the Path, the Way, his path to salvation, I didn't quite understand what that entailed until recently.

When I read something, I simply ask if this is something true or not, and it is answered based on which words are true or not. Sentence by sentence, word by word. But most of it I don't need to know at this point in time. Much will become clearer about these texts in the years ahead, so there's no need to rush it now when the matter is still dark and hard to decipher. One of the problems with translations is when every 3rd word is false. Trying to piece together what is true and false, is an enormous task. A task I would prefer to delay until later when it will become much easier to compare the original records.

These days I have higher priorities.

[Niemand]

Only one I read fully was 1st Enoch and parts of 2nd and 3rd Enoch.

I was guided by the HSpirit to read 1st Enoch for some unfathomable reason at the time in 2017, but now I kind of get why. Those DNA manipulations, transhumanism, and giants/watcher stuff coming back once again.

I have skimmed the various other apocryphal, and some were more useful than others but I am deeply suspicious of human minds translating and interpreting these works for me. Even if the papers are close to the originals, once translated, Satan gets to "edit" the script so to speak for a new generation.

https://sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/index.htm This is a rather comprehensive index that I used

Ethiopean church doctrine holds Enoch as being canon. This would be the line of Bathesheba I suspect.

There are hundreds of them. I've restricted myself to those which have been canon to some church or other. That's why I haven't really been near 2 or 3 Enoch so far. Others turn up which are tiny fragments or not much use at all.

Some of the works are very short, and can be read in under half an hour.

I recommend 2 Esdras (aka 4 Ezra or the Apocalypse of Ezra), which is proper Apocrypha and the Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles, which is fairly short, but has a lot to say about wealth corrupting the church... that one counts as Pseudepigrapha rather than Apocrypha.

I used to care about what was canon or not, until I just let all of that go. My faith framework is a lot more direct now. When it was written that Jeshua said that you had to turn on your mother, father, sister, brothers to follow the Path, the Way, his path to salvation, I didn't quite understand what that entailed until recently.

When I read something, I simply ask if this is something true or not, and it is answered based on which words are true or not. Sentence by sentence, word by word. But most of it I don't need to know at this point in time. Much will become clearer about these texts in the years ahead, so there's no need to rush it now when the matter is still dark and hard to decipher. One of the problems with translations is when every 3rd word is false. Trying to piece together what is true and false, is an enormous task. A task I would prefer to delay until later when it will become much easier to compare the original records.

These days I have higher priorities.

I have read 2 Esdras a number of times and was listening to the audiobook and got a testimony of what I was listening to.

[Niemand]

The First and Second Books of Adam and Eve (the Conflict with Satan)
viewtopic.php?t=70846

Original Intent's thread on the Pistis Sophia
viewtopic.php?f=14&p=1385139

[Niemand]

Pazooka discussing some implications from these Nag Hammadi books here. Gentiles, Jews, Christians
viewtopic.php?p=1393187

Underrated Bible stories #3: Habakkuk's Hair-raising Experience (from Bel & the Dragon in the KJV Apocrypha)
viewtopic.php?t=69509

Celtic legends about the Bible, including the visits of Biblical figures to western Europe, the Michael Line, Holy Grail/Arthurian legend, and Pontius Pilate. Discusses the Lost Chapter of the Acts of the Apostles (the Sonnini Manuscript), Magna Tabula Glastonia, writings of Nicephorus, Leabhar Gabhala/Lebor Gabála Érenn (Book of Settlements), the Mabinogion etc.
viewtopic.php?t=71061

The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs: are these lost books of the founders of each Tribe of Israel or a later forgery?
viewtopic.php?t=71314

Luke's thread on the Testament of Levi (one of the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs) and how it relates to the LDS and its apostasy.
viewtopic.php?t=61166

The Book of the Cock – an unfortunately named Ethiopian gospel still in current use.
viewtopic.php?t=71338

[Niemand]

I have added some content on the Kolbrin Book and the Gospel of Kailedy to the Celtic legends thread in the last reply. These doesn't fit in well elsewhere, and appear to be modern forgeries

The Book of Gad the Seer mentioned above may have been preserved by a small group of Jews in India. Moreover, some of its content is stunning including references to a sacrificed lamb who is sent by God and the future tribulation.
viewtopic.php?t=71421

[JD21]

My favorite apocryphal books are The 1st Book of Enoch, Book of Jasher and Book of Jubilees. I've read many others, but these three are especially interesting.

[Niemand]

My favorite apocryphal books are The 1st Book of Enoch, Book of Jasher and Book of Jubilees. I've read many others, but these three are especially interesting.

On the basis of those, I would recommend 2 Esdras, 3 Meqabyan (if you can get past the translation), the Book of Gad the Seer (Indian) and the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs. The first and last books are easiest to get hold of.

[JD21]

I need to read 2 Esdras again. Don't think I've read the Book of Gad the Seer yet, though I've heard of it (and probably have it.) I have read a couple of the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs online, and am interested in reading all of them, so I appreciate your mention of them. I found the story of the Maccabees very interesting. I've not heard of 3 Meqabyan. Have several books of apocryphal writings, including all of the books included in the 1611 KJV Bible, but have been focused on studying the Bible lately. Really appreciate your recommendations tho and will definitely re read 2 Esdras this week and see which of the others you recommended are hidden away on a bookshelf.

[Niemand]

I need to read 2 Esdras again. Don't think I've read the Book of Gad the Seer yet, though I've heard of it (and probably have it.) I have read a couple of the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs online, and am interested in reading all of them, so I appreciate your mention of them. I found the story of the Maccabees very interesting. I've not heard of 3 Meqabyan. Have several books of apocryphal writings, including all of the books included in the 1611 KJV Bible, but have been focused on studying the Bible lately. Really appreciate your recommendations tho and will definitely re read 2 Esdras this week and see which of the others you recommended are hidden away on a bookshelf.

I had a prompting recently that 2 Esdras, or at least parts of it, were scripture. I was listening to this audiobook. Like I say, I make no guarantees about whether the whole thing is scriptural, and suggest discernment. The early parts at least seem to be prophecy.

There are also some seventy odd verses which do not appear in the KJV version due to the manuscript it was translated from. These as available online and describe Heaven and Hell. I haven't much of an opinion on these particular verses as yet.

[JD21]

Thank you for sending the YT link for 2 Esdras. I pulled out my copy of it yesterday and started reading it again. (Noticed quite a bit of underlining from the first time I read it - really a good book.) Thank you for your impressions on it as well. A number of people believe it to be scriptural. Have you read The Ascension of Isaiah? I haven't read that yet, but intend to.

[Niemand]

Thank you for sending the YT link for 2 Esdras. I pulled out my copy of it yesterday and started reading it again. (Noticed quite a bit of underlining from the first time I read it - really a good book.) Thank you for your impressions on it as well. A number of people believe it to be scriptural. Have you read The Ascension of Isaiah? I haven't read that yet, but intend to.

2 Esdras is severely underrated. It is known for the Ezra's Eagle prophecy but there is a lot more than that. I don't pretend to understand it all but there are prophecies in there I think relate to our own time. I like Christopher Glyn's audiobooks so I have tried to use them as much as possible. Some of the other ones online are not so good.

Ascension of Isaiah is on my to do list series. I will try and do one on Jasher, the main problem being that there are several works of that name (like the Revelation/Apocalypse of Peter) so I'll have write something on the others at the same time.

The main problem is that there are dozens of these books, and I'm just trying to come up with some kind of checklist for them.

[JD21]

I bought (and read) The Book of Jasher - R.H. Charles version, 2018, on Amazon. Not sure whether I can leave a link, so didn't. R.H. Charles consistently receives very high reviews on Apocryphal books he provides.

I have no desire to read the 2nd and 3rd books of Enoch, since they are repeatedly said to not be scriptural. However, I'm glad there are others who read everything and do a review, so I don't have to. 1st Enoch is fascinating and his righteousness makes me want to improve.

[Niemand]

I bought (and read) The Book of Jasher - R.H. Charles version, 2018, on Amazon. Not sure whether I can leave a link, so didn't. R.H. Charles consistently receives very high reviews on Apocryphal books he provides.

I have no desire to read the 2nd and 3rd books of Enoch, since they are repeatedly said to not be scriptural. However, I'm glad there are others who read everything and do a review, so I don't have to. 1st Enoch is fascinating and his righteousness makes me want to improve.

1 Enoch seems to be the best. 2 & 3 Enoch cover a lot of the same ground. I may get to them eventually. Same with the other books of Baruch, not my main priority, but I will get round to them I suppose.

---
The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians, an early endorsement of Paul or a forgery?
viewtopic.php?p=1400884