Anyone read the apocrypha?

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XEmilyX
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Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by XEmilyX »

Just wondering if any of you have read the apocrypha and if there's any insights you get from it?
Are there any more books than the 16 they have?
Where should I start to read?

I read bel and the dragon it was actually pretty interesting.
The king said to Daniel that bel the God was real because he would eat the food daily that he brought to it. Well what happened was the priests were taking the food through a trap door to pretend it was being eaten by the idol. Eventually the king found out and slew all the priests and also sadly their families but daniel was spared.

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Chip
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Chip »

The Apocrypha of Adam and Eve was really interesting. It detailed their departure from the Garden of Eden and all the crazy things they went through.

Lynn
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Lynn »

Check out 'The Apocryphal Old Testament' edited by H.F.D. Sparks 1984 HB from Clarendon Press - Oxford. 990 pp. Library call letters are BS 1692 & the ISBN # 0-19-826166-7 You can always use your library's Interlibrary Loan program. Or perhaps buy a used copy.

Check out these ...
"Joseph & Aseneth", "Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs" (especially Levi's), "Syriac Apocalypse of Baruch", "Greek Apocalypse of Baruch" (Baruch was Jeremiah's scribe & also a prophet & seer), "Apocalypse of Elijah", among the best of those. Also "Jubilees" & "Paraleipomena of Jeremiah".

NewEliza
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by NewEliza »

The gospel of Mary Magdalene, life of Adam and Eve, and the book of Enoch

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Chip
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Chip »

Do any of these Apocrypha books get into whether Jesus was married, or not?

Lynn
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Lynn »

I don't recall. But Aseneth is told or shown by Michael, that she is to be the bride of Joseph. And she explains that Michael looked exactly like Joseph (of Egypt), except for his (Michgael's) angelic countennanance. Michael also notes that she shall be called Aseneth no more, for it will be or mean refuge. This is most interesting, as we have links thru this & Restoration scriptures tying together Aseneth, refuge, Ariel, and Zion, which I have shared in another thread recently. I would have to look back to find it though.

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Cruiserdude
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Cruiserdude »

Lynn wrote: June 9th, 2021, 9:36 pm I don't recall. But Aseneth is told or shown by Michael, that she is to be the bride of Joseph. And she explains that Michael looked exactly like Joseph (of Egypt), except for his (Michgael's) angelic countennanance. Michael also notes that she shall be called Aseneth no more, for it will be or mean refuge. This is most interesting, as we have links thru this & Restoration scriptures tying together Aseneth, refuge, Ariel, and Zion, which I have shared in another thread recently. I would have to look back to find it though.
Michael perhaps filled the role of earthly father of Jesus as Joseph??? There's some food for thought... Most interesting, seems like that could be a real possibility if we believe Michael played different roles in this creation.

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gigarath24
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by gigarath24 »

The infancy gospels of Jesus Christ are pretty interesting reads.

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Luke
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Luke »

Cruiserdude wrote: June 10th, 2021, 7:49 am
Lynn wrote: June 9th, 2021, 9:36 pm I don't recall. But Aseneth is told or shown by Michael, that she is to be the bride of Joseph. And she explains that Michael looked exactly like Joseph (of Egypt), except for his (Michgael's) angelic countennanance. Michael also notes that she shall be called Aseneth no more, for it will be or mean refuge. This is most interesting, as we have links thru this & Restoration scriptures tying together Aseneth, refuge, Ariel, and Zion, which I have shared in another thread recently. I would have to look back to find it though.
Michael perhaps filled the role of earthly father of Jesus as Joseph??? There's some food for thought... Most interesting, seems like that could be a real possibility if we believe Michael played different roles in this creation.
Well if we believe Brigham Young when He taught that Adam/God the Father came down and literally fathered the Saviour...

abijah`
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by abijah` »

Chip wrote: June 9th, 2021, 8:59 pm Do any of these Apocrypha books get into whether Jesus was married, or not?
They are usually gnostic texts. Ive seen them quoted on this forum from time to time, like the Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Thomas etc.

While I do think Jesus was married, it doesn't change the fact that the gnostics were retards, preaching watcher-doctrine and making a "christ" in their own image.

They weren't taken seriously by real Christians back then, and for good reason.

Lynn
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Lynn »

OK, let me explain , if a high angel comes, which definitely qualifies these 4 for sure- Michael, Gabriel, Raphiel, and Uriel, the 4 appointed to the Sword (the WORD), all they need to do, is "speak" (resonate/vibrate) the NAME/WORD in order to put anything into motion. Impregnation is not needed. In the case of Mary, it was Gabriel who spoke the Word, therefore initiating her pregnancy.Gabriel had already appeared to her as a child & proclaimed that she was the chosen vessel.

You see, the WORD is engraved in anything & everything in this universe. In a sense, it is like a lock built in everything. By "vibrating" it the proper way, it is like using a key to open the lock. Anything can be done. As it was written, if done proper, it cannot return void, it must fulfill that which it was sent for.

In the high mountain of China by the sea shore, of which is Mount Garan, the furthest found ancient inscription of the Old Silk Road running from west ends here in the east atop its exceeding heighth, the inscription states "The King of Light was here."

Mount Shelem/Shelom (today's Mt. Garan of China) means "very tall mountain". It is here that Michael reached out his finger from the cloud to light the stones for the Brother of Jared (Peleg). He explained that what Peleg saw, was the body of his Spirit (angel self), and that he would come into the physical body known as Jesus.

The Mount Garan inscription was not found until the 1980s.

In other texts, Michael is sometimes described as a cloud that leads the way. In the case of Joseph Smith's First Vision, it was of the Father (Michael, God of the Angels [Deus Angelorum]), and the Son (Jesus, the perfect man who had allowed death to enter thru him as Adam, in order to overcome it as Jesus).

In ancient Jewish texts, it was Michael who appeared to Moses in the Burning Bush.

If Joseph (step-father) looked very near to what Jesus looked like, then I would point the finger at Seth as to playing that role. Refer to D&C (RLDS-CoC 104:19a-b,28a-29b/ LDS 107:2-43,53-57).

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Niemand
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Niemand »

XEmilyX wrote: June 9th, 2021, 7:18 pm Just wondering if any of you have read the apocrypha and if there's any insights you get from it?
Are there any more books than the 16 they have?
Where should I start to read?

I read bel and the dragon it was actually pretty interesting.
The king said to Daniel that bel the God was real because he would eat the food daily that he brought to it. Well what happened was the priests were taking the food through a trap door to pretend it was being eaten by the idol. Eventually the king found out and slew all the priests and also sadly their families but daniel was spared.
Basically there is the:
* Western Apocrypha (all the books the RCs accept, and a few Protestants) - this appeared in the old King James Bible.

Examples - Tobit (Which I discuss here - viewtopic.php?t=63821&p=1203987), parts of Esther and Daniel not in Protestant Bibles like your Bel & the Dragon, 1 & 2 Maccabees, 1 & 2 Esdras, Wisdom of Sirach

* Eastern Apocrypha (these are several books that the Orthodox churches include - the Eastern Orthodox have a set list, but there are also Orthodox and Coptic books etc)

Examples - Psalm 151 (which I discuss here - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63875&p=1204911&hi ... t#p1204911), 3 & 4 Maccabees

* Pseudepigrapha - These aren't accepted by any mainstream churches. They vary a lot in quality, more so than the Apocrypha above.

Examples - two of the more famous ones are Enoch and the Gospel of Thomas

There are a couple of books in the Bible which nearly didn't make it in or people wanted to throw out. Some people don't like the Song of Songs/Song of Solomon because it is too raunchy, some early church fathers wanted Revelation thrown out too. So it's a close run thing.

There is also the Epistle to the Laodiceans which appears in a few New Testaments, but generally most New Testaments are pretty similar.

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Niemand
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Niemand »

Chip wrote: June 9th, 2021, 8:59 pm Do any of these Apocrypha books get into whether Jesus was married, or not?
Some non-canonical gospels do. They are widely varying value. "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail" played a lot on these sources, and then Dan Brown used that book as inspiration for the "Da Vinci Code".

Peeps
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Peeps »

XEmilyX wrote: June 9th, 2021, 7:18 pm Just wondering if any of you have read the apocrypha and if there's any insights you get from it?
Are there any more books than the 16 they have?
Where should I start to read?

I read bel and the dragon it was actually pretty interesting.
The king said to Daniel that bel the God was real because he would eat the food daily that he brought to it. Well what happened was the priests were taking the food through a trap door to pretend it was being eaten by the idol. Eventually the king found out and slew all the priests and also sadly their families but daniel was spared.
Here is a website that has lots of apopchryphal material to read:
https://www.sacred-texts.com

My 2 favorite apopchryphal writings are the Book of Jasher and the Book of Enoch (not the same book as the Pearl of Great Price).
The Book of Jasher has many details not found in the Bible, you will probably love reading it.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/index.htm

The Book of Enoch says it was written to the last generation, and describes the fallen angels from Genesis chapter 6, the Watchers that saw the daughters of men were fair, and took of them wives and begat giants...

https://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/index.htm

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Luke
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Luke »

Chip wrote: June 9th, 2021, 8:59 pm Do any of these Apocrypha books get into whether Jesus was married, or not?
“Jesus was Married” by Ogden Kraut is an excellent resource.

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MikeMaillet
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by MikeMaillet »

I'm in the process of reading Apocryphal books but I'm being distracted by the Book of Enoch and The Ascension of Isaiah, both my favourites. I must have read the Ascension at least a dozen times. You can find both of them and many others here: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... nsion.html and https://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/

The Ascension of Isaiah is a jewel; a quick read filled with so much. It's easy to read and reveals much about the order of the heavens, the mission and character of the Saviour and a unique look at what it meant for the Saviour to have descended below all. Isaiah's description of the heavens in no way conflicts with the vision of the various kingdoms found in D&C 76 and provides many clues as to the true meaning of Abraham 3. If you've received your endowments in the temple and have wondered about the ceremony, this book will provide much to ponder and may answer many of your questions!

I always approach the reading of scriptures in a prayerful manner and I don't make any distinction between canonized and non-canonized books, relying solely on the influence of the Spirit to be my guide. I have found that it makes a significant difference when I pray before studying scriptures and I always pray that I may discern truth from error. Too many people shy away from reading these texts because some "expert" or worse, some "authority" suggested that they might not be true. They should rely on God rather than men for the truth.

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario

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Niemand
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Niemand »

As I've stated elsewhere a lot of the books above being listed as Apocrypha are actually Pseudepigrapha which is slightly different.

I've added a few more threads on the Apocrypha recently. Here are two of the additions to Daniel:
* Bel and the Dragon
viewtopic.php?t=69261

* Prayer of Azarias (Azariah) and Hymn of the Three Children
viewtopic.php?p=1341609

Also the Prayer of Mannases (Manasseh), apparently a book in its own right.
viewtopic.php?t=69263

The Epistle to the Laodiceans discussed here, with the complete Wycliffe and modern text.
viewtopic.php?t=64025

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gruden2.0
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by gruden2.0 »

Peeps wrote: November 20th, 2021, 6:24 pm
XEmilyX wrote: June 9th, 2021, 7:18 pm Just wondering if any of you have read the apocrypha and if there's any insights you get from it?
Are there any more books than the 16 they have?
Where should I start to read?

I read bel and the dragon it was actually pretty interesting.
The king said to Daniel that bel the God was real because he would eat the food daily that he brought to it. Well what happened was the priests were taking the food through a trap door to pretend it was being eaten by the idol. Eventually the king found out and slew all the priests and also sadly their families but daniel was spared.
Here is a website that has lots of apopchryphal material to read:
https://www.sacred-texts.com

My 2 favorite apopchryphal writings are the Book of Jasher and the Book of Enoch (not the same book as the Pearl of Great Price).
The Book of Jasher has many details not found in the Bible, you will probably love reading it.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/index.htm

The Book of Enoch says it was written to the last generation, and describes the fallen angels from Genesis chapter 6, the Watchers that saw the daughters of men were fair, and took of them wives and begat giants...

https://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/index.htm
Agreed, if you only read 2 apocrypha, read these two. And if you only get to one, read the Book of Enoch, it will give you some insight as to what to expect in our days, some pretty strong parallels actually.

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Niemand
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Niemand »

gruden2.0 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 3:43 pm Agreed, if you only read 2 apocrypha, read these two. And if you only get to one, read the Book of Enoch, it will give you some insight as to what to expect in our days, some pretty strong parallels actually.
By coincidence, I saw Ancient Aliens early and they were claiming that Enoch had been left out because it describes aliens. (Of course.) I thought to myself, well then why were Ezekiel and other trippy books left in the Bible?

I personally think Enoch was left out because it could encourage people to try and contact angels etc, which is usually a bad idea. (Angels will come to you when they have to, not vice versa.)

Enoch isn't part of the Roman Bibles or the Orthodox ones... it only really turns up with the Ethiopians.

There is a lot of interesting material in the Apocrypha (as opposed to the Pseudepigrapha, which a lot of people here muddle up with it.) I've been writing threads on every Apocryphal book from the Roman and Catholic traditions.

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gruden2.0
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by gruden2.0 »

Niemand wrote: January 18th, 2023, 7:18 am
gruden2.0 wrote: January 17th, 2023, 3:43 pm Agreed, if you only read 2 apocrypha, read these two. And if you only get to one, read the Book of Enoch, it will give you some insight as to what to expect in our days, some pretty strong parallels actually.
By coincidence, I saw Ancient Aliens early and they were claiming that Enoch had been left out because it describes aliens. (Of course.) I thought to myself, well then why were Ezekiel and other trippy books left in the Bible?

I personally think Enoch was left out because it could encourage people to try and contact angels etc, which is usually a bad idea. (Angels will come to you when they have to, not vice versa.)

Enoch isn't part of the Roman Bibles or the Orthodox ones... it only really turns up with the Ethiopians.

There is a lot of interesting material in the Apocrypha (as opposed to the Pseudepigrapha, which a lot of people here muddle up with it.) I've been writing threads on every Apocryphal book from the Roman and Catholic traditions.
Hugh Nibley once said if you were able to initiate contact with an angel, what they would most likely do is recite pertinent scripture. There are many levels of spiritual messengers, the ones Enoch dealt with where the very high level arch angels, there are legions below that level. The only thing I've found is just have to be careful not to offend them, but unless you have strong spiritual pull of faith they will generally ignore you. There's more I could say about this but I don't think most would have any idea what I was talking about.

It's the demons you should avoid, you will usually end up worse off in some way if you initiate contact.

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Niemand
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Niemand »

gruden2.0 wrote: January 18th, 2023, 9:47 am Hugh Nibley once said if you were able to initiate contact with an angel, what they would most likely do is recite pertinent scripture. There are many levels of spiritual messengers, the ones Enoch dealt with where the very high level arch angels, there are legions below that level. The only thing I've found is just have to be careful not to offend them, but unless you have strong spiritual pull of faith they will generally ignore you. There's more I could say about this but I don't think most would have any idea what I was talking about.

It's the demons you should avoid, you will usually end up worse off in some way if you initiate contact.
I think most folk who make contact with angels are in contact with fallen angels.

I also think that angels contact or influence people by less obvious means.

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gruden2.0
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by gruden2.0 »

Niemand wrote: January 18th, 2023, 4:53 pm
gruden2.0 wrote: January 18th, 2023, 9:47 am Hugh Nibley once said if you were able to initiate contact with an angel, what they would most likely do is recite pertinent scripture. There are many levels of spiritual messengers, the ones Enoch dealt with where the very high level arch angels, there are legions below that level. The only thing I've found is just have to be careful not to offend them, but unless you have strong spiritual pull of faith they will generally ignore you. There's more I could say about this but I don't think most would have any idea what I was talking about.

It's the demons you should avoid, you will usually end up worse off in some way if you initiate contact.
I think most folk who make contact with angels are in contact with fallen angels.

I also think that angels contact or influence people by less obvious means.
Well that would most likely be the Watchers, which played a central role in the events of Enoch. I'm not certain, but I surmise many of them in some way are or will be involved in the end-time events. I suspect at least some of the people giving orders in this world are taking direction from Azaziel's crew.

anonymous91
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by anonymous91 »

Niemand wrote: November 20th, 2021, 8:12 am
XEmilyX wrote: June 9th, 2021, 7:18 pm Just wondering if any of you have read the apocrypha and if there's any insights you get from it?
Are there any more books than the 16 they have?
Where should I start to read?

I read bel and the dragon it was actually pretty interesting.
The king said to Daniel that bel the God was real because he would eat the food daily that he brought to it. Well what happened was the priests were taking the food through a trap door to pretend it was being eaten by the idol. Eventually the king found out and slew all the priests and also sadly their families but daniel was spared.
Basically there is the:
* Western Apocrypha (all the books the RCs accept, and a few Protestants) - this appeared in the old King James Bible.

Examples - Tobit (Which I discuss here - https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... &p=1203987), parts of Esther and Daniel not in Protestant Bibles like your Bel & the Dragon, 1 & 2 Maccabees, 1 & 2 Esdras, Wisdom of Sirach

* Eastern Apocrypha (these are several books that the Orthodox churches include - the Eastern Orthodox have a set list, but there are also Orthodox and Coptic books etc)

Examples - Psalm 151 (which I discuss here - https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... t#p1204911), 3 & 4 Maccabees

* Pseudepigrapha - These aren't accepted by any mainstream churches. They vary a lot in quality, more so than the Apocrypha above.

Examples - two of the more famous ones are Enoch and the Gospel of Thomas

There are a couple of books in the Bible which nearly didn't make it in or people wanted to throw out. Some people don't like the Song of Songs/Song of Solomon because it is too raunchy, some early church fathers wanted Revelation thrown out too. So it's a close run thing.

There is also the Epistle to the Laodiceans which appears in a few New Testaments, but generally most New Testaments are pretty similar.
I've also heard mention of the "Ethiopian Bible" which supposedly contains stories not found anywhere else. From what I understand though, most of this has never been translated. Anyone know more about this?

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Niemand
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by Niemand »

anonymous91 wrote: January 20th, 2023, 4:23 am I've also heard mention of the "Ethiopian Bible" which supposedly contains stories not found anywhere else. From what I understand though, most of this has never been translated. Anyone know more about this?
The Ethiopian Bible mostly contains content familiar to us such as the Gospels. However as it is way down in Africa and was beyond Vatican control it also managed to preserve a few other scriptures and its own content. The trouble is most of this isn't in Greek or Hebrew.

The lack of translation has been hard to come by because
* a) Ethiopian Christianity is still obscure internationally (except maybe some pop culture references via Rastafarianism which is a quasi-heresy of it)
* b) A lot of their material is not readily available in print form which makes translation harder.

There is a long running story that the Ethiopian Christians got hold of the Ark of the Covenant and hid it. I've no idea if that is true but I do believe their existence is somehow relevant to the end times. Maybe they have something which is a game changer. Their climate doesn't seem to be very good for preserving books.

Image

NationDeseret
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Re: Anyone read the apocrypha?

Post by NationDeseret »

I haven’t finished reading any besides additions to Daniel & Esther. The Book of Enoch I’ve enjoyed reading so far. The only apocrypha I recommend are Testaments of the Patriarchs. They’re a very good resource for deepening your understanding of the antediluvian world. They’re also quoted by Paul and Jude. David Hocking had a good video on the Book of Enoch you should check out.

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