Pre-earth, did we really have bodies or were we lights?

[Silver Pie]

I find it interesting that there are people with NDEs who see people as lights during their experiences, and some of them see that the people there can take the form of the person they were in life to help whoever is new to recognize them.

Like many here, I've been taught that we came here to mortality to get a body, and that our previous body was shaped just like ours here (and even those born with missing body parts like an arm or a leg, etc. have spirit bodies shaped just like human bodies). Now, I have begun to wonder if that is so.

What if we really were spots of light, like the alien in Starman? What if, when Jesus showed himself to the brother of Jared and told that guy, "You're seeing the body I'm going to have when I'm living on earth," he was showing himself in human form rather than in the form he would normally take?

Yes, we've got the scripture about the Trinity each having an actual body, but the Lectures on Faith only credit Jesus with having one (after he was resurrected, because Joseph wrote it almost 2,000 years after the resurrection). The Father is a being of light and glory? (I forget how it is worded), and the Holy Spirit is the mind of God that the Father and the Son share, not an actual being. And the Holy Ghost is not mentioned at all.

Edited a typo

[Silver Pie]

These statements, below, have really gotten me thinking (these are only snippets of the whole post - bold is mine):

"Every part of my being was satisfied with an unconditional love beyond description.”

“The message was – love. Above and beyond anything else, one must first learn to love oneself non-judgmentally and unconditionally. Then one will actually love all people and all things the same way.
I realized how important people were in life, how important it was to accept them and love them. All events in your life are significant. To bring an understanding of all things, even the experiences which you consider insignificant, will bring you to places of great awareness and compassion.”

“If my journey from the bottom of a river to the heights of heaven revealed anything to me, it is that God is not only real and present in our world, but that He knows each one of us by name, loves each one of us as though we were the only person on Earth, and has a plan for each of us that is more significant and rewarding than anything we can dare to imagine on our own.”
— Dr. Mary Neal, 7 Lessons from Heaven: How Dying Taught Me to Live a Joy-Filled Life


“...We didn’t come here just to experience all the happy things. We also came here to experience the difficult emotions because we learn from those and they enrich us in ways that really we can’t get when we are out of body, when we are in our whole selves. If we could get those out there, we wouldn’t be here...”

“...The only things that matter in life are love and knowledge. There is nothing else. You must remember that.”

"• In order to be in Heaven, we need to learn how to vibrate at the same frequency that Heaven does.
• The primary vibration of Heaven is love; therefore the more loving we can become, the more heavenly states of consciousness we experience.
• It’s by learning to be a loving person IN THIS WORLD that we gain the ability to live in a heavenly state of consciousness PERMANENTLY. Simply dipping in and out of heavenly states of consciousness gives us a taste of Heaven, but doesn’t allow us to permanently stay in those states. This appears to be one of the mains reason we keep getting sent back to this world:
1. We can’t stay in higher states of consciousness until we have developed a consciousness that vibrates, all the time, at higher frequencies.
2. Our souls want to be here so we can learn how to do that.”

“...Perfection is not expected of people, but learning is expected and considered good progress.”

“...We came here for one thing. And that was to learn about ourselves. That’s it. We came to find out who you are and how you respond to different things.

"There was some selfish part of me which made me ask: ‘May I be given in one life what I have to live in other lives on this Earth?’ because for me the Earth is a real hell and I did not want to come back. I was told that they could not give me more (weight) than my shoulders could carry.”

“Your higher self incarnated because as a sensate, embodied being you can have experiences your spirit alone cannot. Don’t be afraid of desire. Don’t be afraid of passion, of adventure, of a little sin, of failure, of living in your own unique way. Don’t be afraid of anything. Life truly is a big play — have fun with it, don’t take it so seriously. Life in all its glory goes on, no matter how messy it looks from here and now.”

“I came to understand that most of us have lived much, MUCH longer than we could even fathom....”

[Silver Pie]

I've thought of that "Don't be afraid of . . . a little sin." It struck me that it was like the parable of the talents. Three people coming to earth. One jumps in with both feet, even though he knows he's going to make mistakes, even hurt others whether by accident or on purpose. The second is a little more hesitant, but is still willing to experience life and screw up. The third one, though, is so terrified of committing sin, of doing something wrong, that he makes no choices at all. He buries himself in a basement and refuses to try anything in this life for fear that he will sin or make mistakes, even though all of us do it, even though it comes with the territory.

[LukeAir2008]

We have always existed. You are an intelligence, a tiny being of light. (D&C 93:29) You were at some stage clothed with a spirit body in the image of the Father or Mother and now you have a physical body to complete your probationary period. You will eventually receive either one of three types of glorified body or you will return to your original state as a naked intelligence.

[Prana]

Fun thoughts, Silver Pie. If we knew absolutely, would we be better or worse for it here and now?

[Cruiserdude]

I find it interesting that there are people with NDEs who see people as lights during their experiences, and some of them see that the people there can take the form of the person they were in life to help whoever is new to recognize them.

Like many here, I've been taught that we came here to mortality to get a body, and that our previous body was shaped just like ours here (and even those born with missing body parts like an arm or a leg, etc. have spirit bodies shaped just like human bodies). Now, I have begun to wonder if that is so.

What if we really were spots of light, like the alien in Starman? What if, when Jesus showed himself to the brother of Jared and told that guy, "You're seeing the body I'm going to have when I'm living on earth," he was showing himself in human form rather than in the form he would normally take?

Yes, we've got the scripture about the Trinity each having an actual body, but the Lectures on Faith only credit Jesus with having one (after he was resurrected, because Joseph wrote in almost 2,000 years after the resurrection). The Father is a being of light and glory? (I forget how it is worded), and the Holy Spirit is the mind of God that the Father and the Son share, not an actual being. And the Holy Ghost is not mentioned at all.

It wouldn't surprise me if as intelligences, before receiving a spiritual body, we appeared as lights.

[NewEliza]

Yes I agree that intelligences are flames of fire who are housed in spirit tabernacles.

[XEmilyX]

I believe that we took perfect form. Aka we were beautiful or handsome in many ways. We did NOT look like what we look like here, our true form is something completely different but it's human form.
Intelligences possibly looked different but idk what those are.
But Jesus was unrecognizable in his new body for good reason, he was different looking than his earthly body, his earthly body took a different form. In his new body it took form to his spiritual body. Resurrected bodies are perfected not just in health related issues but in LOOKS.
I believe everyone in heaven is a 10 and up. God does not create ugliness. Every angel I've seen is gorgeous and handsome. Even PERFECT looking. We do not look like the way we look up there.

The reason angels take form to their earthly bodies is to be recognizable to the person they're ministering to.

[inho]

Good questions. If one believes that my spirit body looks like my mortal body (as many do believe), does it look like 1 year old me, 20 years old, 50 years old or 90 years old?

[nightlight]

Good questions. If one believes that my spirit body looks like my mortal body (as many do believe), does it look like 1 year old me, 20 years old, 50 years old or 90 years old?

Your fully matured body....

Around 33 .

[Silver Pie]

I appreciate all the comments. So what I'm getting from some of you is that the orbs of light (or specks or flames) are the core of us, before spirit.

Can/will anyone post scriptures they've found that specifically say that our spirits look like human bodies (with the exception of Jesus appearing to the brother of Jared, as I've already mentioned that one, and Jesus did not say, "This is what my spirit looks like," but, "This is what I will look like when I show up." Now, if you believe that interpretation is wrong, or you see that Jesus really DID say, "This is what I look like right now," feel free to post your thoughts and/or the actual scripture)? I can't think of any.

Fun thoughts, Silver Pie. If we knew absolutely, would we be better or worse for it here and now?

As this idea/thought has grabbed hold of me, I am finding it is helping.

One the one hand, I can see that this body is nothing. This reality is not as real as it has always seemed. The importance of the physical things like riches lose their value except as a means to alleviate the suffering of others. It's as if, from the perspective of a blob of light, there is nothing to fear here (and that's huge, considering I have dealt with anxiety for over 30 years and depression for nearly 50), nor is there anything to fear from living forever (which thing has terrified me for years; the never being able to cease existing) because "forever" is "now" and it is totally different from here.

On the other hand, this body is vitally important. I had no idea what it felt like to feel fear and pain and sorrow and relief. I had no idea what it felt like to walk and talk and touch solid objects. And to control this body seems like . . . well, I feel like I"m looking at this from the perspective of one who had never been here and who understands like I have never understood while living here in this life, the incredible opportunity to have a body that I control instead of it controlling me. The incredible opportunity to learn to love while being pulled to and fro by unloving things all around me (including happening to me).

It's like I was excited to come here. I understood the joy and excitement it would be to take on a form I had never had before, one totally foreign to anything in the dimension that is the world of unborn spirits. Everything about this place was foreign and odd and different, but once I actually entered this realm, after being molded and exposed to it for about 9 months, and had experiences for a short while, I forgot what the other place was like. I thought THIS was real, that this was the reality and the other place was only a shadow, a place many people don't believe exists because they have so thoroughly forgotten it.

[Silver Pie]

Though I've asked for scriptures (and I am interested in the ones I've asked for), I am more interested in free thinking. I know we have beliefs as LDS people (whether we are still in the sect or not), yet I'm looking beyond what we were taught at church or in seminary/institute. I am looking for what each of us has to say from our heart of hearts, from the depth of our curiosity and thinking. I do believe I've seen that in replies here, and am absolutely interested in more of those thoughtful comments.

[Cruiserdude]

I appreciate all the comments. So what I'm getting from some of you is that the orbs of light (or specks or flames) are the core of us, before spirit.

Can/will anyone post scriptures they've found that specifically say that our spirits look like human bodies (with the exception of Jesus appearing to the brother of Jared, as I've already mentioned that one, and Jesus did not say, "This is what my spirit looks like," but, "This is what I will look like when I show up." Now, if you believe that interpretation is wrong, or you see that Jesus really DID say, "This is what I look like right now," feel free to post your thoughts and/or the actual scripture)? I can't think of any.

Fun thoughts, Silver Pie. If we knew absolutely, would we be better or worse for it here and now?

As this idea/thought has grabbed hold of me, I am finding it is helping.

One the one hand, I can see that this body is nothing. This reality is not as real as it has always seemed. The importance of the physical things like riches lose their value except as a means to alleviate the suffering of others. It's as if, from the perspective of a blob of light, there is nothing to fear here (and that's huge, considering I have dealt with anxiety for over 30 years and depression for nearly 50), nor is there anything to fear from living forever (which thing has terrified me for years; the never being able to cease existing) because "forever" is "now" and it is totally different from here.

On the other hand, this body is vitally important. I had no idea what it felt like to feel fear and pain and sorrow and relief. I had no idea what it felt like to walk and talk and touch solid objects. And to control this body seems like . . . well, I feel like I"m looking at this from the perspective of one who had never been here and who understands like I have never understood while living here in this life, the incredible opportunity to have a body that I control instead of it controlling me. The incredible opportunity to learn to love while being pulled to and fro by unloving things all around me (including happening to me).

It's like I was excited to come here. I understood the joy and excitement it would be to take on a form I had never had before, one totally foreign to anything in the dimension that is the world of unborn spirits. Everything about this place was foreign and odd and different, but once I actually entered this realm, after being molded and exposed to it for about 9 months, and had experiences for a short while, I forgot what the other place was like. I thought THIS was real, that this was the reality and the other place was only a shadow, a place many people don't believe exists because they have so thoroughly forgotten it.

Awesome

[Thinker]

I've thought of that "Don't be afraid of . . . a little sin." It struck me that it was like the parable of the talents. Three people coming to earth. One jumps in with both feet, even though he knows he's going to make mistakes, even hurt others whether by accident or on purpose. The second is a little more hesitant, but is still willing to experience life and screw up. The third one, though, is so terrified of committing sin, of doing something wrong, that he makes no choices at all. He buries himself in a basement and refuses to try anything in this life for fear that he will sin or make mistakes, even though all of us do it, even though it comes with the territory.

Fitting interpretation of that parable!

Life sure can be messy - but that happens when creating new art! I remember a pivotal moment when I was 12 where I decided on a bit of wild wrecklessness partly because I knew there was so much I needed to learn that I couldn’t on the path I was going. Thankfully, with God and angelic help, I corrected course before I got too far down the chaotic path. It did give me valuable experience and perspective that has become priceless in navigating this insane world.

RE: Your question and topic... a thought came to me that resonated (pun) - we are vibration - music. But I think light’s involved too. Fascinating to imagine possibilities!

[inho]

Can/will anyone post scriptures they've found that specifically say that our spirits look like human bodies

D&C 129 is interesting. On one hand it talks about shaking hands. It is implied that spirits have hands, that you would attempt to shake hands with them. Would you try to shake hands, if the spirit does not have at least some kind of humanoid form?

On the other hand, it says that "the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear."

[Luke]

Can/will anyone post scriptures they've found that specifically say that our spirits look like human bodies

Ether 3

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

[inho]

Can/will anyone post scriptures they've found that specifically say that our spirits look like human bodies

Ether 3

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

You clearly didn't read everything Silver Pie wrote:

Can/will anyone post scriptures they've found that specifically say that our spirits look like human bodies (with the exception of Jesus appearing to the brother of Jared, as I've already mentioned that one, and Jesus did not say, "This is what my spirit looks like," but, "This is what I will look like when I show up." Now, if you believe that interpretation is wrong, or you see that Jesus really DID say, "This is what I look like right now," feel free to post your thoughts and/or the actual scripture)? I can't think of any.

[Luke]

You clearly didn't read everything Silver Pie wrote:

Yeah I didn’t, I only saw the partial portion that you quoted from, which didn’t include the part about Ether 3

[TheDuke]

I believe in MMP therefore, while some people here may have been spirits only without bodies in the first eternal round, others had bodies that are tangible and in the image of god and man today. Having said that, I don't believe you are lights or points after you have been created by Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. I feel they together take intelligence and bring it to live as a soul/spirit/eternal being. I think the spirit being/child is very tangible in the heavenly realm, like a real person, not an indescribable entity. I think such teachings make it much more difficult to understand that we are really begotten of our Father(s) and He is a man, and his wife if my Mother, and I am their child. Perhaps created from star dust if you will not not that any more. IMO interpreting my own revelations about my relationship with my Mother and my father.

[Silver Pie]

RE: Your question and topic... a thought came to me that resonated (pun) - we are vibration - music. But I think light’s involved too. Fascinating to imagine possibilities!

Interesting. Vibrating on the same wavelength as God makes sense. In fact, that could be a physical factor as to who gets destroyed when Jesus returns and who doesn't. I wonder if that vibration is some kind of music. Music seems to be a factor in God's world from some scriptures I've read. And light seems to be a really big thing, both in scriptures and in NDEs.

D&C 129 is interesting. On one hand it talks about shaking hands. It is implied that spirits have hands, that you would attempt to shake hands with them. Would you try to shake hands, if the spirit does not have at least some kind of humanoid form?

On the other hand, it says that "the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear."

I forgot about that scripture. It makes sense. I stopped writing here and looked it up to see what it said, exactly.

1 THERE are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—

2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.

4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.

5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.

6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—

7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.

8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.

9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.

So, this says to me that only a resurrected being can shake a mortal's hand. Apparently a just man made perfect cannot; that's why he won't try to deceive you by putting out his hand if you ask.

One of the things I've come across is that spirit beings' natural form is light (balls, orbs, etc.), but that they can form themselves into their mortal shape so they can be recognized by the newly dead.

I have thought of something since I last posted here, though. That is what if those spots of light were not seen very closely by the observers who returned and reported what they had seen? What if, inside those orbs or circles or spots were beings in human form, but they emitted a lot of light so, to the observer, they looked light spots of light without bodies?

[Silver Pie]

Can/will anyone post scriptures they've found that specifically say that our spirits look like human bodies (with the exception of Jesus appearing to the brother of Jared, as I've already mentioned that one, and Jesus did not say, "This is what my spirit looks like," but, "This is what I will look like when I show up." Now, if you believe that interpretation is wrong, or you see that Jesus really DID say, "This is what I look like right now," feel free to post your thoughts and/or the actual scripture)? I can't think of any.

Ether 3

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

"This is the body of my spirit." Interesting. I had definitely forgotten that part.

I believe in MMP therefore, while some people here may have been spirits only without bodies in the first eternal round, others had bodies that are tangible and in the image of god and man today. Having said that, I don't believe you are lights or points after you have been created by Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. I feel they together take intelligence and bring it to live as a soul/spirit/eternal being. I think the spirit being/child is very tangible in the heavenly realm, like a real person, not an indescribable entity. I think such teachings make it much more difficult to understand that we are really begotten of our Father(s) and He is a man, and his wife if my Mother, and I am their child. Perhaps created from star dust if you will not not that any more. IMO interpreting my own revelations about my relationship with my Mother and my father.

Except for the MMP part, this is what I have been taught all my life. I'm trying to find out if it is true, or if the orbs/blobs/etc. of light is true. Or maybe they are both true (intelligences vs spirits, as has been mentioned in this thread - or - the people who saw the lights just weren't able to discern/see closely enough to tell they were actually people).

I don't know why I identify so strongly with the idea of being a spot of light, and being so eager to experience a real body. I do believe it has given me insight and has helped mortality not be so terrifying to me. It made it so I could step back and not be attached to the pain and the horror and mistakes in this place.

[Luke]

Can/will anyone post scriptures they've found that specifically say that our spirits look like human bodies (with the exception of Jesus appearing to the brother of Jared, as I've already mentioned that one, and Jesus did not say, "This is what my spirit looks like," but, "This is what I will look like when I show up." Now, if you believe that interpretation is wrong, or you see that Jesus really DID say, "This is what I look like right now," feel free to post your thoughts and/or the actual scripture)? I can't think of any.

Ether 3

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

"This is the body of my spirit." Interesting. I had definitely forgotten that part.

I believe in MMP therefore, while some people here may have been spirits only without bodies in the first eternal round, others had bodies that are tangible and in the image of god and man today. Having said that, I don't believe you are lights or points after you have been created by Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. I feel they together take intelligence and bring it to live as a soul/spirit/eternal being. I think the spirit being/child is very tangible in the heavenly realm, like a real person, not an indescribable entity. I think such teachings make it much more difficult to understand that we are really begotten of our Father(s) and He is a man, and his wife if my Mother, and I am their child. Perhaps created from star dust if you will not not that any more. IMO interpreting my own revelations about my relationship with my Mother and my father.

Except for the MMP part, this is what I have been taught all my life. I'm trying to find out if it is true, or if the orbs/blobs/etc. of light is true. Or maybe they are both true (intelligences vs spirits, as has been mentioned in this thread - or - the people who saw the lights just weren't able to discern/see closely enough to tell they were actually people).

I don't know why I identify so strongly with the idea of being a spot of light, and being so eager to experience a real body. I do believe it has given me insight and has helped mortality not be so terrifying to me. It made it so I could step back and not be attached to the pain and the horror and mistakes in this place.

I was reading some Scripture about this idea of being a spot of light but for the life of me can’t remember which one it was. I’ll have a look tomorrow

[Silver Pie]

I was reading some Scripture about this idea of being a spot of light but for the life of me can’t remember which one it was. I’ll have a look tomorrow

I look forward to reading it (and, hopefully, your thoughts on it).

[inho]

When scriptures talk about light, what do they actually mean? In most cases, I don't think they talk about photons (light particles). If spirit was light in the real, physical sense of the word, then it would be observable through our scientific instrument. I think that 'light' is used as metaphor; although I am not 100% what it means in every passage talking about light.

[Thinker]

...what if those spots of light were not seen very closely by the observers who returned and reported what they had seen? What if, inside those orbs or circles or spots were beings in human form, but they emitted a lot of light so, to the observer, they looked light spots of light without bodies?

Cool thought!

“God is light.” - 1John 1:5

"The total of the numbered men of the camp of Judah: 186,400, by their armies.” - Numbers 2:9

186,000 mi/s is the speed of light.