LDS Freedom Forum

Lexew1899 wrote: ↑May 18th, 2021, 5:17 pm

BeHealthy94 wrote: ↑May 18th, 2021, 6:25 pm Im glad our church is smart enough to know that raising the right hand to the square will not move a mountain or erect a structure (temple/chapel)...only money can do that. We love and have faith in God but God expects us to use our resources to build his kingdom. The investment arm of the church seems to be performing pretty well....wish I could have that kind of % gains in my stock portfolio.

Luke wrote: ↑May 18th, 2021, 7:43 pm

BeHealthy94 wrote: ↑May 18th, 2021, 6:25 pm Im glad our church is smart enough to know that raising the right hand to the square will not move a mountain or erect a structure (temple/chapel)...only money can do that. We love and have faith in God but God expects us to use our resources to build his kingdom. The investment arm of the church seems to be performing pretty well....wish I could have that kind of % gains in my stock portfolio.

Is this a troll post? Faith can’t move mountains, only money can? Madness

Behold I say unto you, Nay; for it is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men; wherefore, if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain. — Moroni 7:37

Luke wrote: ↑May 18th, 2021, 7:43 pm

BeHealthy94 wrote: ↑May 18th, 2021, 6:25 pm Im glad our church is smart enough to know that raising the right hand to the square will not move a mountain or erect a structure (temple/chapel)...only money can do that. We love and have faith in God but God expects us to use our resources to build his kingdom. The investment arm of the church seems to be performing pretty well....wish I could have that kind of % gains in my stock portfolio.

Is this a troll post? Faith can’t move mountains, only money can? Madness

Lexew1899 wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 9:36 am I can’t imagine for one second that Christ would think it’s okay to any degree to invest tithing funds or any other church money in the stock market. That’s the antithesis of everything he stood for. He was against Babylon, money changers, and the type of clutching misers wallstreet represents.

If anything, I think the church is becoming poorer and poorer the more money it gains. I could care less how many Billions and Billions they make. They are told in the scriptures very strictly what they are allowed to use tithing money for. Caring for the poor, needy, widows, etc. The entire body of the church would be much better off of they followed this commandments found in the scriptures. Our people would be without debt to Babylon. But as it is, people are in bondage to the Whore.

JK4Woods wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 10:42 am

Lexew1899 wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 9:36 am I can’t imagine for one second that Christ would think it’s okay to any degree to invest tithing funds or any other church money in the stock market. That’s the antithesis of everything he stood for. He was against Babylon, money changers, and the type of clutching misers wallstreet represents.

If anything, I think the church is becoming poorer and poorer the more money it gains. I could care less how many Billions and Billions they make. They are told in the scriptures very strictly what they are allowed to use tithing money for. Caring for the poor, needy, widows, etc. The entire body of the church would be much better off of they followed this commandments found in the scriptures. Our people would be without debt to Babylon. But as it is, people are in bondage to the Whore.

I know what you mean....

Maybe its this passage of scripture, in Matthew chapter 25, upon which the Corporate Church bases its financial philospohy:

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

JK4Woods wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 10:42 am

Lexew1899 wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 9:36 am I can’t imagine for one second that Christ would think it’s okay to any degree to invest tithing funds or any other church money in the stock market. That’s the antithesis of everything he stood for. He was against Babylon, money changers, and the type of clutching misers wallstreet represents.

If anything, I think the church is becoming poorer and poorer the more money it gains. I could care less how many Billions and Billions they make. They are told in the scriptures very strictly what they are allowed to use tithing money for. Caring for the poor, needy, widows, etc. The entire body of the church would be much better off of they followed this commandments found in the scriptures. Our people would be without debt to Babylon. But as it is, people are in bondage to the Whore.

I know what you mean....

Maybe its this passage of scripture, in Matthew chapter 25, upon which the Corporate Church bases its financial philospohy:

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

BeHealthy94 wrote: ↑May 18th, 2021, 6:25 pm Im glad our church is smart enough to know that raising the right hand to the square will not move a mountain or erect a structure (temple/chapel)...only money can do that. We love and have faith in God but God expects us to use our resources to build his kingdom. The investment arm of the church seems to be performing pretty well....wish I could have that kind of % gains in my stock portfolio.

In the meantime my poor and widowed mother-in-law has been blessed to get food from the bishops store house and a portion of her rent paid every month for the past 10 years. Thank you Jesus! Thank you members in her ward who pay their tithing and thank you Bishop for working with her.

Subcomandante wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 3:59 pm

BeHealthy94 wrote: ↑May 18th, 2021, 6:25 pm Im glad our church is smart enough to know that raising the right hand to the square will not move a mountain or erect a structure (temple/chapel)...only money can do that. We love and have faith in God but God expects us to use our resources to build his kingdom. The investment arm of the church seems to be performing pretty well....wish I could have that kind of % gains in my stock portfolio.

In the meantime my poor and widowed mother-in-law has been blessed to get food from the bishops store house and a portion of her rent paid every month for the past 10 years. Thank you Jesus! Thank you members in her ward who pay their tithing and thank you Bishop for working with her.

God gave us brains and reason, that is correct. We are to use the resources that we are blessed with wisely, as a supplement to an already existing faith, not to replace faith. The moment our love of money replaces faith, that is the moment when we are committing a type of idolatry, when we put the focus more on money, rather than thanking God for the money that is received.

We must constantly be looking at receiving better and higher gifts than what we currently have. Money, though a useful resource to move things temporally, only goes so far. Having a lot of money did not prevent Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos from going through divorce. The Church could have money in the hundreds of billions of dollars (and by all indications, it does), but is that money being used wisely? It would be nice to know where that money is going towards. Yes, we get snippets of water projects in Africa and wheelchair deliveries in Brazil, and agricultural programs in Central America, among other things. It would be nice to see these things itemized and have data scientists employed within the Church also telling the leaders what works best, and have it explained to us common folk why these billions of dollars are necessary.

Maybe we don't need to see all these things. But I feel that a little transparency would go a long way towards assuaging concerns of several members on this topic.

Subcomandante wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 3:59 pm
God gave us brains and reason, that is correct. We are to use the resources that we are blessed with wisely, as a supplement to an already existing faith, not to replace faith. The moment our love of money replaces faith, that is the moment when we are committing a type of idolatry, when we put the focus more on money, rather than thanking God for the money that is received.

We must constantly be looking at receiving better and higher gifts than what we currently have. Money, though a useful resource to move things temporally, only goes so far. Having a lot of money did not prevent Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos from going through divorce. The Church could have money in the hundreds of billions of dollars (and by all indications, it does), but is that money being used wisely? It would be nice to know where that money is going towards. Yes, we get snippets of water projects in Africa and wheelchair deliveries in Brazil, and agricultural programs in Central America, among other things. It would be nice to see these things itemized and have data scientists employed within the Church also telling the leaders what works best, and have it explained to us common folk why these billions of dollars are necessary.

Maybe we don't need to see all these things. But I feel that a little transparency would go a long way towards assuaging concerns of several members on this topic.

Subcomandante wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 3:59 pm The moment our love of money replaces faith, that is the moment when we are committing a type of idolatry, when we put the focus more on money, rather than thanking God for the money that is received.

BeHealthy94 wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 8:27 pm

Subcomandante wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 3:59 pm
God gave us brains and reason, that is correct. We are to use the resources that we are blessed with wisely, as a supplement to an already existing faith, not to replace faith. The moment our love of money replaces faith, that is the moment when we are committing a type of idolatry, when we put the focus more on money, rather than thanking God for the money that is received.

We must constantly be looking at receiving better and higher gifts than what we currently have. Money, though a useful resource to move things temporally, only goes so far. Having a lot of money did not prevent Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos from going through divorce. The Church could have money in the hundreds of billions of dollars (and by all indications, it does), but is that money being used wisely? It would be nice to know where that money is going towards. Yes, we get snippets of water projects in Africa and wheelchair deliveries in Brazil, and agricultural programs in Central America, among other things. It would be nice to see these things itemized and have data scientists employed within the Church also telling the leaders what works best, and have it explained to us common folk why these billions of dollars are necessary.

Maybe we don't need to see all these things. But I feel that a little transparency would go a long way towards assuaging concerns of several members on this topic.

1. When friends/family or strangers find out Im mormon..70% of the their reaction is that we dont smoke/drink, 30% reactions are about missionaries/bkof mormon/Joseph Smith, and 0% of the time has anyone ever said "oh, you guys are that billion dollar church!". Id say this is one benefit of not being so public about our finances. We are a God loving people, not money loving people. In any organization someone has to manage the finances, hows about we let them manage that while we focus on living the Gospel.

There is no reason that my teenage kids should worry about how much credit card debt I have or on the positive side when my business has a good month. Their job is to get good grades and prepare for college, I have seen this concept come to fruition last week when my oldest graduated valedictorian from high school. I didnt think it was that big of a deal but on that night as she walked across the stage it hit me like a ton of bricks. Church members are on a personal journey to seek the celestial kingdom and when we get there I think I know how proud our HF will be.

2. I have heard story's where people would join our church only to ask bishop for monetary assistance because they heard of another mormon family that was receiving assistance. Those same people are no where to be seen when they are denied or asked to perform service hours for that assistance. This would be a lot more common if we were known as the billion dollar church. Why give news, media and the adversary ammo to make us a target for welfare assistance or random lawsuits. If im not mistaken I think we already had an instance where gangs in a foreign country targeted mormon missionaries and held them for ransom all because of the idea that the mormon church has money.

3. Am I worried about the church keeping the financial numbers secret? Nope! not at all. Why? because transparency is already among us via the internet.
You see how Harvey Weinsteins world came crashing down after all his victims used the internet as a voice to accuse him? If our church and church leaders were doing anything questionable of what highly religious leaders should be doing you better believe those rumors would surface easily and quickly. So far the worst I heard was the church spending $100,000 on a chandelier for one of its temples, or the church biasedly hiring an LDS contractor to do some work. The OPs post and article about the LDS church profiting on GME stock...oh! geez! I think im going to lose my testimony.

Subcomandante wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 3:59 pm The moment our love of money replaces faith, that is the moment when we are committing a type of idolatry, when we put the focus more on money, rather than thanking God for the money that is received.

Based on what I hear from conference talks and see on LDS.org I see no lack of faith by our leaders or an emphasis on money.

sushi_chef wrote: ↑May 20th, 2021, 10:32 pm ummmmmmmmmmm ..... but, but, but,

looks like latter-day gentile's church destruction was prophesied,

"50 And now his disciples came to him, and Jesus said unto them, Marvel ye at the words of the parable which I spake unto them?

51 Verily, I say unto you, I am the stone, and those wicked ones reject me.

52 I am the head of the corner. These Jews shall fall upon me, and shall be broken.

53 And the kingdom of God shall be taken from them, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof; (meaning the Gentiles.)

54 Wherefore, on whomsoever this stone shall fall, it shall grind him to powder.

55 And when the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, he will destroy those miserable, wicked men, and will let again his vineyard unto other husbandmen, even in the last days, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

56 And then understood they the parable which he spake unto them, that the Gentiles should be destroyed also, when the Lord should descend out of heaven to reign in his vineyard, which is the earth and the inhabitants thereof.
"
(jst matthew 21)
http://www.centerplace.org/hs/iv2kjv/default.htm

also nephi forewarned and looks like foretold the perish,

"29 He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.

30 Behold, the Lord hath forbidden this thing; wherefore, the Lord God hath given a commandment that all men should have charity, which charity is love. And except they should have charity they were nothing. Wherefore, if they should have charity they would not suffer the laborer in Zion to perish.

31 But the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish.
" 2 nephi 26

and then some visionary's utterance ...

"I then saw the following:
"There was a major earthquake that destroyed the new LDS Conference Center and split the church office building in two. I saw that many within the conspiracy were slain by the earthquake(s?) as well as those who say, "Your cause is just, but I cannot do anything for you or I will offend those which provide my living."
"
viewtopic.php?p=177631#p177631

might expect that ccc/ coference center collapse would be within this decade, 2020s ...

2015 (elders perry packer scott departed) - - - "48. Near the time of the end, many of the General Authorities will become quite old. Troubles will start when three leaders will die in close proximity to one another. The new replacements will not be able to hold the Church together"

2020, 1~ - - - "49. In the end there will be a great apostasy in the Church. A rift in leadership will cause many members to leave. Something << covid plandemic >> will happen to make members congregate in and around the churches, and at various other locations << on-line zoom meetings >> to discuss and ponder the great disturbing changes << great reset - - lockdowns vaccine-passports new normal>> occurring. This will mark the commencement of the time of problems for the Church, as well as the time of apostasy."

XXXX - - - "50. The Bishop told of an interview with the Prophet Joseph in Salt Lake City. The two of them were seeking out the latter general authorities. The Bishop asked Joseph what he was going to do. Joseph's answer was, "I'm going to release them, every last man-jack one of them." (A man-jack is a mule that must be castrated or cut off to remove their unreconcilable stubbornness to Godly direction.) Joseph then stated, "They had their chance and failed!" "

so, urrrr... 2017 + 7 ==> around 2024 + - 1, 2 ==> would be urrr

"Henry Kissinger, US Intelligence Community Endorse “A World Without Israel” By Kevin Barrett -
October 3, 2012...
The New York Post quotes Kissinger “word for word”: “In 10 years, there will be no more Israel.” Kissinger’s statement is flat and unqualified. He is not saying that Israel is in danger, but could be saved if we just gave it additional trillions of dollars and smashed enough of its enemies with our military. He is not saying that if we....
"
https://www.veteranstodayarchives.com/2 ... ut-israel/

sushi* ldsanarchy iran
search.php?keywords=ldsanarchy+iran&ter ... mit=Search

latterdayloco wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 7:00 am

Luke wrote: ↑May 18th, 2021, 7:43 pm

BeHealthy94 wrote: ↑May 18th, 2021, 6:25 pm Im glad our church is smart enough to know that raising the right hand to the square will not move a mountain or erect a structure (temple/chapel)...only money can do that. We love and have faith in God but God expects us to use our resources to build his kingdom. The investment arm of the church seems to be performing pretty well....wish I could have that kind of % gains in my stock portfolio.

Is this a troll post? Faith can’t move mountains, only money can? Madness

This is the state of mind of most members of the church I would say. This is why we don’t see miracles as often. Just as Mormon foretold:

Behold I say unto you, Nay; for it is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men; wherefore, if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain. — Moroni 7:37

I’m guessing mount Zerin being moved by the brother of Jared was just a figure of speech?

Lexew1899 wrote: ↑May 19th, 2021, 9:36 am I can’t imagine for one second that Christ would think it’s okay to any degree to invest tithing funds or any other church money in the stock market. That’s the antithesis of everything he stood for. He was against Babylon, money changers, and the type of clutching misers wallstreet represents.

If anything, I think the church is becoming poorer and poorer the more money it gains. I could care less how many Billions and Billions they make. They are told in the scriptures very strictly what they are allowed to use tithing money for. Caring for the poor, needy, widows, etc. The entire body of the church would be much better off of they followed this commandments found in the scriptures. Our people would be without debt to Babylon. But as it is, people are in bondage to the Whore.