Church Covid Hypocrisy

[Reluctant Watchman]

Story time:

I walk into my YSA ward this morning and sit down. After the openings and sacrament, our stake president gets up to speak. He begins with how we all agreed to follow God's commandments to come here and a few other examples about following Christ. He then spends a few minutes talking about the temple recommend questions, specifically that you sustain Nelson and the other church leaders. Next a long testimony of how Nelson is a prophet of God who will not lead us astray. He then says he wants to focus his entire message on one statement from this last conference, "do all you can to slow the spread" and get back into our temples following LOCAL GUIDELINES. A note for this next part, I'm sitting nearly at the front in the middle of the row. He then says, "the area presidency has asked us to wear masks, I plead with you to wear your masks, it is REQUIRED to wear a mask for church attendance." I stood up, looked him in the eye, shook my head, and walked out of the building. Now some of you may think that was an inappropriate response (my mom did), but I wanted every person in that room to know that is why I walked out, and I pray to God that I was not the only one.

I will no longer be attending any LDS ward.

Now the title... I live in Idaho. Where I'm at we could have our temples open at FULL CAPACITY with NO MASKS, and we could have been doing it for months. Our mask mandate was removed and there are absolutely NO local guidelines that would prevent our churches and temples from reopening to COMPLETELY normal. It is despicable that any leader will stand up and tell us such a blatant lie, and why??? Why does he feel the need to require us to do something that is not locally mandated? He is going even beyond Nelson's guidance, it is to signal his virtue to "higher" leaders?

"Follow your local guidelines" sounds great, sure. But WHY THE HELL are we going past them? Especially when study after study shows that masks are ineffective and cause psychological and physiological harm to the wearers.

This has led me to believe there is some evil intent behind the leaders of the LDS church. Because I do not think they are this stupid, idiotic, and moronic.

I applaud your courage; not necessarily the manner in which you did it. There is a very real danger in how you did what you did and will possibly lead down a road of a lot of pain and suffering.

I am right there with you in that there are a plethora of things which are being done in the Church which is not right, evil, wicked, etc. The challenge is knowing how to resist them in the correct manner. The challenge for people like you (and me) is that we see what is going wrong and we want to take a stand, we want to fight for what is right and we have the courage and conviction to do so. Yet if we are not careful then we become revolutionaries, seeking to destroy the order in the world-this leads to a very bad place.

There is a manner in which one can resist these insanities while still maintaining the proper Christian attitude desiring to help those who lead have a change of heart rather than a complete revolution of order.

I would highly encourage you to ponder on the following video so that this does not take you down a dark road.

If not now, when? When will you stand up? When will you be heard?

[CosmicMind]

Story time:

I walk into my YSA ward this morning and sit down. After the openings and sacrament, our stake president gets up to speak. He begins with how we all agreed to follow God's commandments to come here and a few other examples about following Christ. He then spends a few minutes talking about the temple recommend questions, specifically that you sustain Nelson and the other church leaders. Next a long testimony of how Nelson is a prophet of God who will not lead us astray. He then says he wants to focus his entire message on one statement from this last conference, "do all you can to slow the spread" and get back into our temples following LOCAL GUIDELINES. A note for this next part, I'm sitting nearly at the front in the middle of the row. He then says, "the area presidency has asked us to wear masks, I plead with you to wear your masks, it is REQUIRED to wear a mask for church attendance." I stood up, looked him in the eye, shook my head, and walked out of the building. Now some of you may think that was an inappropriate response (my mom did), but I wanted every person in that room to know that is why I walked out, and I pray to God that I was not the only one.

I will no longer be attending any LDS ward.

Now the title... I live in Idaho. Where I'm at we could have our temples open at FULL CAPACITY with NO MASKS, and we could have been doing it for months. Our mask mandate was removed and there are absolutely NO local guidelines that would prevent our churches and temples from reopening to COMPLETELY normal. It is despicable that any leader will stand up and tell us such a blatant lie, and why??? Why does he feel the need to require us to do something that is not locally mandated? He is going even beyond Nelson's guidance, it is to signal his virtue to "higher" leaders?

"Follow your local guidelines" sounds great, sure. But WHY THE HELL are we going past them? Especially when study after study shows that masks are ineffective and cause psychological and physiological harm to the wearers.

This has led me to believe there is some evil intent behind the leaders of the LDS church. Because I do not think they are this stupid, idiotic, and moronic.

I applaud your courage; not necessarily the manner in which you did it. There is a very real danger in how you did what you did and will possibly lead down a road of a lot of pain and suffering.

I am right there with you in that there are a plethora of things which are being done in the Church which is not right, evil, wicked, etc. The challenge is knowing how to resist them in the correct manner. The challenge for people like you (and me) is that we see what is going wrong and we want to take a stand, we want to fight for what is right and we have the courage and conviction to do so. Yet if we are not careful then we become revolutionaries, seeking to destroy the order in the world-this leads to a very bad place.

There is a manner in which one can resist these insanities while still maintaining the proper Christian attitude desiring to help those who lead have a change of heart rather than a complete revolution of order.

I would highly encourage you to ponder on the following video so that this does not take you down a dark road.

If not now, when? When will you stand up? When will you be heard?

Obviously you haven't been paying attention to the conversation.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Story time:

I walk into my YSA ward this morning and sit down. After the openings and sacrament, our stake president gets up to speak. He begins with how we all agreed to follow God's commandments to come here and a few other examples about following Christ. He then spends a few minutes talking about the temple recommend questions, specifically that you sustain Nelson and the other church leaders. Next a long testimony of how Nelson is a prophet of God who will not lead us astray. He then says he wants to focus his entire message on one statement from this last conference, "do all you can to slow the spread" and get back into our temples following LOCAL GUIDELINES. A note for this next part, I'm sitting nearly at the front in the middle of the row. He then says, "the area presidency has asked us to wear masks, I plead with you to wear your masks, it is REQUIRED to wear a mask for church attendance." I stood up, looked him in the eye, shook my head, and walked out of the building. Now some of you may think that was an inappropriate response (my mom did), but I wanted every person in that room to know that is why I walked out, and I pray to God that I was not the only one.

I will no longer be attending any LDS ward.

Now the title... I live in Idaho. Where I'm at we could have our temples open at FULL CAPACITY with NO MASKS, and we could have been doing it for months. Our mask mandate was removed and there are absolutely NO local guidelines that would prevent our churches and temples from reopening to COMPLETELY normal. It is despicable that any leader will stand up and tell us such a blatant lie, and why??? Why does he feel the need to require us to do something that is not locally mandated? He is going even beyond Nelson's guidance, it is to signal his virtue to "higher" leaders?

"Follow your local guidelines" sounds great, sure. But WHY THE HELL are we going past them? Especially when study after study shows that masks are ineffective and cause psychological and physiological harm to the wearers.

This has led me to believe there is some evil intent behind the leaders of the LDS church. Because I do not think they are this stupid, idiotic, and moronic.

I applaud your courage; not necessarily the manner in which you did it. There is a very real danger in how you did what you did and will possibly lead down a road of a lot of pain and suffering.

I am right there with you in that there are a plethora of things which are being done in the Church which is not right, evil, wicked, etc. The challenge is knowing how to resist them in the correct manner. The challenge for people like you (and me) is that we see what is going wrong and we want to take a stand, we want to fight for what is right and we have the courage and conviction to do so. Yet if we are not careful then we become revolutionaries, seeking to destroy the order in the world-this leads to a very bad place.

There is a manner in which one can resist these insanities while still maintaining the proper Christian attitude desiring to help those who lead have a change of heart rather than a complete revolution of order.

I would highly encourage you to ponder on the following video so that this does not take you down a dark road.

If not now, when? When will you stand up? When will you be heard?

Read the rest of the comments, it will make sense.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Story time:

I walk into my YSA ward this morning and sit down. After the openings and sacrament, our stake president gets up to speak. He begins with how we all agreed to follow God's commandments to come here and a few other examples about following Christ. He then spends a few minutes talking about the temple recommend questions, specifically that you sustain Nelson and the other church leaders. Next a long testimony of how Nelson is a prophet of God who will not lead us astray. He then says he wants to focus his entire message on one statement from this last conference, "do all you can to slow the spread" and get back into our temples following LOCAL GUIDELINES. A note for this next part, I'm sitting nearly at the front in the middle of the row. He then says, "the area presidency has asked us to wear masks, I plead with you to wear your masks, it is REQUIRED to wear a mask for church attendance." I stood up, looked him in the eye, shook my head, and walked out of the building. Now some of you may think that was an inappropriate response (my mom did), but I wanted every person in that room to know that is why I walked out, and I pray to God that I was not the only one.

I will no longer be attending any LDS ward.

Now the title... I live in Idaho. Where I'm at we could have our temples open at FULL CAPACITY with NO MASKS, and we could have been doing it for months. Our mask mandate was removed and there are absolutely NO local guidelines that would prevent our churches and temples from reopening to COMPLETELY normal. It is despicable that any leader will stand up and tell us such a blatant lie, and why??? Why does he feel the need to require us to do something that is not locally mandated? He is going even beyond Nelson's guidance, it is to signal his virtue to "higher" leaders?

"Follow your local guidelines" sounds great, sure. But WHY THE HELL are we going past them? Especially when study after study shows that masks are ineffective and cause psychological and physiological harm to the wearers.

This has led me to believe there is some evil intent behind the leaders of the LDS church. Because I do not think they are this stupid, idiotic, and moronic.

I applaud your courage; not necessarily the manner in which you did it. There is a very real danger in how you did what you did and will possibly lead down a road of a lot of pain and suffering.

I am right there with you in that there are a plethora of things which are being done in the Church which is not right, evil, wicked, etc. The challenge is knowing how to resist them in the correct manner. The challenge for people like you (and me) is that we see what is going wrong and we want to take a stand, we want to fight for what is right and we have the courage and conviction to do so. Yet if we are not careful then we become revolutionaries, seeking to destroy the order in the world-this leads to a very bad place.

There is a manner in which one can resist these insanities while still maintaining the proper Christian attitude desiring to help those who lead have a change of heart rather than a complete revolution of order.

I would highly encourage you to ponder on the following video so that this does not take you down a dark road.

If not now, when? When will you stand up? When will you be heard?

Obviously you haven't been paying attention to the conversation.

I'll eventually make it through... hopefully, it will become "obvious" as you've stated.

[Fred]

Feminist and gay LDS groups have perpetuated all kinds of change in the church in recent years. Don't tell me for one second that speaking up doesn't influence church leaders.

The best and fastest way to end this pandemic nonsense is to stop wearing a mask. It's also incredibly unhealthy and dangerous because it spreads bacteria and causes immense psychological damage. Show Christlike love for other by not wearing one.

50% of the members in the USA are democrats, which means they fully support full term abortions, redistribution of wealth, large government, loss of rights, Marxism, socialized medicine and all things satanic.

The satanists on the board point out that other countries may be more socialist than the USA.

The church is not about to cut off this huge tithing base revenue. Much better to appease the satanists, increase membership, and roll in the dough.

It's not about being Christ's church. It is about being a global church.

[EvanLM]

Pride cometh before the fall

there is a lot of confusion in the church. . . everyone thinking they are doing the right thing

the media is lying to us and covering real news, have censored trump and many of the alternative media that delivers his actions relayed to them by government informants or hwatever they call them. Not every mormon knows that yet

can you see the deceit- even the very elect may fall-can you see the deceit? can you see how deceived people are? have compassion, brother and lets salvage as much as we can - we have a Zion to build

btw - come up to So Dakota- our temple will open in June. I promise that some of us have been faithful but not happy mask wearers and some have not. We are a small group of saints but have constantly seen our leaders get together, pray, move forward. then our leaders meet together discuss the feelings of their members, pray, move forward. Then we see our leaders get more ideas from members, discuss it, pray , move forward. In addition, our leaders have to be in contact with q12 or 15 or whatever, to get permission to have the Temple opened for our youth to do baptisms in June. Really, what a great group of saints. Not always in agreement but working towards the goal of saving our dead, missionary work, etc.

Our misssionaries have had their rules changed several times and other procedures. We have walked through several changes with people holding out to NOT wear the mask at church, stake conference and sunday worship. Our leaders have seen us without our masks and with our masks at these meetings so we have all been represented when decisions are made. Leaders cannot ignore the non mask wearers no matter what they preach across that pulpit.

I will never take the vaccine, but showed respect for people who have told me about their experience with getting the vaccine and have expressed kindness and concern for their side effects and their fears as well. Why? Because first, I am a Christian, trying to learn charity. This covid mess that has caused division in the church and in our wards is no different than another other mandate that has come from our brethren. How did we deal with those?

We kept repeating the same message and many people repeated the same message until our bishops and other leaders finally listened. btw my direct ancestors is that cool guy that told Martin Wille to not go and that many would die. Another direct ancestor waited two days with a wagon of supplies in the dead of winter, in Wyoming, for his captain and a scout to find the Martin and Willie companies. Five other wagons had gone back to SLC claiming they had waited long enough and one wagon stayed with my grgrgr grandfather.

Neither of these men were prophets but they did what they knew was right, stuck with it and then found that the Lord had prompted them correctly. This is minor bump. Don't leave the church.

When I have really felt harrangued by the bishop or other leadership in a Ward, then I just go t another ward that welcomes me and looks a lot like me (so to speak). sacrament covenant is real important and Christ has asked us to take it. It's also important for you to know that not all bishops feel the same way. The church is full of a lot of good people scattered everywhere. Touch back with your ward every now and then to see if something has changed and then go back.

[Gadianton Slayer]

It's not about being Christ's church. It is about being a global church.

Huh, this statement makes a lot of sense. Especially seeing how missionary and temple work have become a machine to get as many people through as quickly as possible...

[Fred]

It's not about being Christ's church. It is about being a global church.

Huh, this statement makes a lot of sense. Especially seeing how missionary and temple work have become a machine to get as many people through as quickly as possible...

I wish I could see your facial expression. I can't tell if you agree with me or not?

[Gadianton Slayer]

It's not about being Christ's church. It is about being a global church.

Huh, this statement makes a lot of sense. Especially seeing how missionary and temple work have become a machine to get as many people through as quickly as possible...

I wish I could see your facial expression. I can't tell if you agree with me or not?

Oh I absolutely agree.

I think how they run things is much more for quantity than quality. They want to preach to all nations, and by doing so will bow to worldly powers. Thus denying some of Christ’s teachings.

[InfoWarrior82]

Story time:

I walk into my YSA ward this morning and sit down. After the openings and sacrament, our stake president gets up to speak. He begins with how we all agreed to follow God's commandments to come here and a few other examples about following Christ. He then spends a few minutes talking about the temple recommend questions, specifically that you sustain Nelson and the other church leaders. Next a long testimony of how Nelson is a prophet of God who will not lead us astray. He then says he wants to focus his entire message on one statement from this last conference, "do all you can to slow the spread" and get back into our temples following LOCAL GUIDELINES. A note for this next part, I'm sitting nearly at the front in the middle of the row. He then says, "the area presidency has asked us to wear masks, I plead with you to wear your masks, it is REQUIRED to wear a mask for church attendance." I stood up, looked him in the eye, shook my head, and walked out of the building. Now some of you may think that was an inappropriate response (my mom did), but I wanted every person in that room to know that is why I walked out, and I pray to God that I was not the only one.

I will no longer be attending any LDS ward.

Now the title... I live in Idaho. Where I'm at we could have our temples open at FULL CAPACITY with NO MASKS, and we could have been doing it for months. Our mask mandate was removed and there are absolutely NO local guidelines that would prevent our churches and temples from reopening to COMPLETELY normal. It is despicable that any leader will stand up and tell us such a blatant lie, and why??? Why does he feel the need to require us to do something that is not locally mandated? He is going even beyond Nelson's guidance, it is to signal his virtue to "higher" leaders?

"Follow your local guidelines" sounds great, sure. But WHY THE HELL are we going past them? Especially when study after study shows that masks are ineffective and cause psychological and physiological harm to the wearers.

This has led me to believe there is some evil intent behind the leaders of the LDS church. Because I do not think they are this stupid, idiotic, and moronic.

I applaud your courage; not necessarily the manner in which you did it. There is a very real danger in how you did what you did and will possibly lead down a road of a lot of pain and suffering.

I am right there with you in that there are a plethora of things which are being done in the Church which is not right, evil, wicked, etc. The challenge is knowing how to resist them in the correct manner. The challenge for people like you (and me) is that we see what is going wrong and we want to take a stand, we want to fight for what is right and we have the courage and conviction to do so. Yet if we are not careful then we become revolutionaries, seeking to destroy the order in the world-this leads to a very bad place.

There is a manner in which one can resist these insanities while still maintaining the proper Christian attitude desiring to help those who lead have a change of heart rather than a complete revolution of order.

I would highly encourage you to ponder on the following video so that this does not take you down a dark road.

There is nothing wrong at all with Walking out of a meeting.

I mean, it’s not like he was whipping people or flipping over tables!!

Wait

Walking out of a meeting is one thing; which is perfectly fine-I've walked out of meetings before when really bad falsities are being taught and I just can't take it anymore.

It was the following which caused me pause: "I stood up, looked him in the eye, shook my head, and walked out of the building."

For what purpose was this done: specifically looking him in the eye, shaking the head and leaving.
OP states why: "I wanted every person in that room to know that is why I walked out, and I pray to God that I was not the only one."

It becomes very dangerous (not unallowable) just very dangerous to the soul to do as such. When one is engaged in public open opposition such as this, it becomes dangerous. Again not unallowable, one just much exercise tremendous caution. One's heart must be pure and one must be willing to submit to the higher authorities discipline (if there is one) for doing so.

To publicly shake your head, walk out and then state you will never set foot again in the Church is not the Christian path but the revolutionary path. Very bad for one's soul.

It is in effect telling others, that they should be following you as a leader vs. the current leaders (you are telling others this b/c you quit). It is a very, very dangerous game to play.

88 And if thy brother or sister offend thee, thou shalt take him or her between him or her and thee alone; and if he or she confess thou shalt be reconciled.

89 And if he or she confess not thou shalt deliver him or her up unto the church, not to the members, but to the elders. And it shall be done in a meeting, and that not before the world.

90 And if thy brother or sister offend many, he or she shall be chastened before many.

91 And if any one offend openly, he or she shall be rebuked openly, that he or she may be ashamed. And if he or she confess not, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of God.

92 If any shall offend in secret, he or she shall be rebuked in secret, that he or she may have opportunity to confess in secret to him or her whom he or she has offended, and to God, that the church may not speak reproachfully of him or her.

93 And thus shall ye conduct in all things.

[InfoWarrior82]

Talking to your Stake President will accomplish literally nothing. He's just an over-glorified yes man.

Not true. Only one who has no trust in any spiritual leader would say such a thing; only one who is a god unto themselves would believe that.

The Stake President is a man, yes; but the Spirit is quicker than a two-edged sword. Come armed with the Spirit of God and God will quickly call the "yes man" to repentance.

Don't forget, from the original post, it was detailed that local leaders were DISOBEYING the prophet's declaration that the church should be following LOCAL MANDATES regarding covid measures. In this instance, the stake pres and area authority, are in open rebellion (to a president of the church following the commandments of Klaus Schwab). It is this man who is past feeling already. No good will come of meeting with him.

[InfoWarrior82]

Do you guys not know anyone who has died from Covid-19? I don’t get how you can still think it’s fake. The sheer amount of people needed to be in on this supposed lie for it to work discredits the idea that it’s fake. Sure I believe it is being blown out of proportion as a means of control, but it is still killing people. We’ve had a few die in our family.

Why is wearing a mask Satanic? How does wearing a mask to combat a respiratory illness not make sense? The members of the church in Asia have done this for years because of all of the respiratory epidemics.

You guys are just as bad as the news at blowing things out of proportion.

The PCR tests used to determine a "covid positive" result are fantastically fraudulent.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Found this you guys might find interesting:

Jacques Attali is a jewish Freemason, Bilderberger, advisor to François Mitterrand.
In 1981 he stated:

“The future will be about finding a way to reduce the population. We start with the old, because as soon as they exceed 60-65 years, people live longer than they produce and that costs society dearly. Then the weak, then the useless that do not help society because there will always be more of them, and above all, ultimately, the stupid. Euthanasia targeting these groups; Euthanasia will have to be an essential tool in our future societies, in all cases. Of course we will not be able to execute people or build camps. We get rid of them by making them believe that it is for their own good. Overpopulation, and mostly useless, is something that is too costly economically. Socially, too, it is much better when the human machine comes to an abrupt standstill than when it gradually deteriorates. Neither will we be able to test millions upon millions of people for their intelligence, you bet that! We will find or cause something a pandemic targeting certain people, a real economic crisis or not, a virus affecting the old or the fat, it doesn't matter, the weak will succumb to it, the fearful and stupid will believe in it and seek treatment. We will have made sure that treatment is in place, treatment that will be the solution. The selection of idiots then takes care of itself: You go to the slaughter by yourself."

[David13]

Come on, you know better than that to hide behind some self-righteous platitude like the above.
You quit, you wanted others to know you quit and you did it publicly for show.

Umm... so you'd rather I sit in the meeting? Please, let me know how you would have handled the situation.

First, remove the anger from your heart. Any action such as this must be done with a pure heart, no malice. Firmness and conviction.

I've said, walking out is fine (I've done it before). Walking out publicly and shaking you head is okay, as long as your heart is pure. I would have after the meeting requested a meeting (or had a conversation) with the the guy who spoke. And I would have explained with Spiritual Eyes, why this is evil and wicked. Which you can't just do by saying, this is evil and wicked.

You have to be armed with meaning and purpose; you have to explain to the leaders why masks are evil and it's not "because they don't work"; that's not sufficient. You have to have a very well ground spiritual understanding of what masks symbolize, what putting a mask on symbolizes, what wearing a mask in a religious setting symbolizes, what it spiritually means to sing praises to God while wearing a mask!

If you are armed with the Spirit of God, with meaning, with purpose and can articulate (and God will give it to you), they simply cannot say anything to refute it. If you do not believe that, they you don't fully believe in God's ability to give you His Spirit in the moment to help you and them.

I would have conversations about it with my Bishop. I would tell him, I am not wearing a mask in Church. If you tell me I cannot come to Church because I will not wear a mask, then I will not do so. Here is what that spiritually means though.

It spiritually means that you as a spiritual father are telling people to put on a mask when they come to Church, that spiritually, they cannot come to Church singing praises to Christ with their lips. They must hid their faces, they must hide their testimonies from others.

You tell the Bishop that he is telling his flock that he is spiritually telling them they it is perfectly acceptable to be false, to present a false picture of spirituality when coming to Church. You tell the Bishop that at a metaphysical level, requiring people to wear mask means that when they get up to bear a testimony of Christ, that their testimony cannot be counted on to be true. If we are required to wear a physical mask at Church, they you are also requiring us to wear a spiritual mask.

Given in the right manner with the Spirit of God, he won't say a darn thing afterwards to you.

Yes, I agree. The reason I've fought what you're saying is that those conversations have happened, I understand very well what the masks symbolize and are doing to our society. They do say things to me though, and justify their actions because "they won't be at fault for following a prophet of God."

I have what you could call "repeated offences". My leaders know my views, and until now I've been willing to attend church regardless. You have to take into consideration all of my other experiences and concerns to understand why I am not going for the foreseeable future.

I did not "quit", I am choosing to spend my time doing things that bring me closer to Christ. Part of which includes having discussions with friends of mine about gospel topics.

I get the idea that you're saying I made a show to be seen of people both in that room and on this forum. Please know that that is not the case.

The friend I was sitting next to in the meeting called me afterwards, he had confronted my stake president after the meeting for a few minutes. The pres repeatedly said he will follow the counsel of the brethren before his own opinions. When my friend asked him if he knew it was wrong, he essentially said it doesn't matter, he will obey.

A blind follower. The perfect classic definition of a yes man. A sycophant.

Putting faith in the arm of the flesh. Following man, not God.
dc

[Gadianton Slayer]

Umm... so you'd rather I sit in the meeting? Please, let me know how you would have handled the situation.

First, remove the anger from your heart. Any action such as this must be done with a pure heart, no malice. Firmness and conviction.

I've said, walking out is fine (I've done it before). Walking out publicly and shaking you head is okay, as long as your heart is pure. I would have after the meeting requested a meeting (or had a conversation) with the the guy who spoke. And I would have explained with Spiritual Eyes, why this is evil and wicked. Which you can't just do by saying, this is evil and wicked.

You have to be armed with meaning and purpose; you have to explain to the leaders why masks are evil and it's not "because they don't work"; that's not sufficient. You have to have a very well ground spiritual understanding of what masks symbolize, what putting a mask on symbolizes, what wearing a mask in a religious setting symbolizes, what it spiritually means to sing praises to God while wearing a mask!

If you are armed with the Spirit of God, with meaning, with purpose and can articulate (and God will give it to you), they simply cannot say anything to refute it. If you do not believe that, they you don't fully believe in God's ability to give you His Spirit in the moment to help you and them.

I would have conversations about it with my Bishop. I would tell him, I am not wearing a mask in Church. If you tell me I cannot come to Church because I will not wear a mask, then I will not do so. Here is what that spiritually means though.

It spiritually means that you as a spiritual father are telling people to put on a mask when they come to Church, that spiritually, they cannot come to Church singing praises to Christ with their lips. They must hid their faces, they must hide their testimonies from others.

You tell the Bishop that he is telling his flock that he is spiritually telling them they it is perfectly acceptable to be false, to present a false picture of spirituality when coming to Church. You tell the Bishop that at a metaphysical level, requiring people to wear mask means that when they get up to bear a testimony of Christ, that their testimony cannot be counted on to be true. If we are required to wear a physical mask at Church, they you are also requiring us to wear a spiritual mask.

Given in the right manner with the Spirit of God, he won't say a darn thing afterwards to you.

Yes, I agree. The reason I've fought what you're saying is that those conversations have happened, I understand very well what the masks symbolize and are doing to our society. They do say things to me though, and justify their actions because "they won't be at fault for following a prophet of God."

I have what you could call "repeated offences". My leaders know my views, and until now I've been willing to attend church regardless. You have to take into consideration all of my other experiences and concerns to understand why I am not going for the foreseeable future.

I did not "quit", I am choosing to spend my time doing things that bring me closer to Christ. Part of which includes having discussions with friends of mine about gospel topics.

I get the idea that you're saying I made a show to be seen of people both in that room and on this forum. Please know that that is not the case.

The friend I was sitting next to in the meeting called me afterwards, he had confronted my stake president after the meeting for a few minutes. The pres repeatedly said he will follow the counsel of the brethren before his own opinions. When my friend asked him if he knew it was wrong, he essentially said it doesn't matter, he will obey.

A blind follower. The perfect classic definition of a yes man. A sycophant.

Putting faith in the arm of the flesh. Following man, not God.
dc

I believe we now call that, “church broke”.

[InfoWarrior82]

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[Gadianton Slayer]

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yes, much thanks for this.

[David13]

How is it that 'people of faith' can think that God works in a chemical laboratory somewhere concocting toxins and poisons and using aborted baby parts in an untested shot?
dc

[Gadianton Slayer]

How is it that 'people of faith' can think that God works in a chemical laboratory somewhere concocting toxins and poisons and using aborted baby parts in an untested shot?
dc

They are ignorant (which sounds like a bad thing, but we are all ignorant in some way) or they are not people of faith at all.

[Reluctant Watchman]

D&C 103:31
"Behold this is my will; ask and ye shall receive; but men do not always do my will."

[Silver Pie]

“The future will be about finding a way to reduce the population. We start with the old, because as soon as they exceed 60-65 years, people live longer than they produce and that costs society dearly. Then the weak, then the useless that do not help society because there will always be more of them, and above all, ultimately, the stupid. Euthanasia targeting these groups; Euthanasia will have to be an essential tool in our future societies, in all cases. Of course we will not be able to execute people or build camps. We get rid of them by making them believe that it is for their own good. Overpopulation, and mostly useless, is something that is too costly economically. Socially, too, it is much better when the human machine comes to an abrupt standstill than when it gradually deteriorates. Neither will we be able to test millions upon millions of people for their intelligence, you bet that!

Well, I guess I'm dead meat - except that (so far), I've not been tricked into letting them kill me.

We will find or cause something a pandemic targeting certain people, a real economic crisis or not, a virus affecting the old or the fat, it doesn't matter, the weak will succumb to it, the fearful and stupid will believe in it and seek treatment. We will have made sure that treatment is in place, treatment that will be the solution. The selection of idiots then takes care of itself: You go to the slaughter by yourself."

Sheesh!

[Gadianton Slayer]

“The future will be about finding a way to reduce the population. We start with the old, because as soon as they exceed 60-65 years, people live longer than they produce and that costs society dearly. Then the weak, then the useless that do not help society because there will always be more of them, and above all, ultimately, the stupid. Euthanasia targeting these groups; Euthanasia will have to be an essential tool in our future societies, in all cases. Of course we will not be able to execute people or build camps. We get rid of them by making them believe that it is for their own good. Overpopulation, and mostly useless, is something that is too costly economically. Socially, too, it is much better when the human machine comes to an abrupt standstill than when it gradually deteriorates. Neither will we be able to test millions upon millions of people for their intelligence, you bet that!

Well, I guess I'm dead meat - except that (so far), I've not been tricked into letting them kill me.

We will find or cause something a pandemic targeting certain people, a real economic crisis or not, a virus affecting the old or the fat, it doesn't matter, the weak will succumb to it, the fearful and stupid will believe in it and seek treatment. We will have made sure that treatment is in place, treatment that will be the solution. The selection of idiots then takes care of itself: You go to the slaughter by yourself."

Sheesh!

Right? Spot on.

[Gadianton Slayer]

*UPDATE:

I went to a couple of missionary homecoming talks yesterday and spoke with a friend who attends the same YSA I was in. He told me that the stake president later gave a message to the effect of:

• You all need to follow your leaders no matter what, you need to get jabbed, you need to wear masks, you must sustain the prophet in all he says... etc.

Nothing crazy, I'd expect that from him. BUT, my friend says that the bishop went into their class during the 2nd hour and told everyone that what the SP said was one of the worst things he had ever heard from the pulpit and to not obey that counsel. Hoorah!!!

I also found out that my old bishop is moving into the same ward as my parents, perhaps this was his way of saying goodbye LOL! I'm going to bring him some cookies once they've moved and have a chat, I liked him a lot. He called himself a "thorn" in the stake's side because he hated the masks and won't take the shot, never enforcing anything with us.

This made me happy

[Pazooka]

I checked Fakebook today (first mistake) only to see that a missionary that served in my ward a few years ago posted, in 2 separate posts, that #1 her fully vaccinated aunt died of Covid and it was because not enough people around her were vaccinated and then #2 her mom just died of Covid and it was because she was not vaccinated.

I’m seeing the writing on the wall.

[Gadianton Slayer]

I checked Fakebook today (first mistake) only to see that a missionary that served in my ward a few years ago posted, in 2 separate posts, that #1 her fully vaccinated aunt died of Covid and it was because not enough people around her were vaccinated and then #2 her mom just died of Covid and it was because she was not vaccinated.

I’m seeing the writing on the wall.

There is no logic anymore. This probably sounds harsh, but I’m not sure how some people I see have the mental capacity to exist in society.