LDS Freedom Forum

Reminds me of that Batman movie - the 'court' the people of Gotham held after Bane took over. They found everybody guilty, too.

Destroyer wrote: ↑April 20th, 2021, 3:22 pm It's a no win situation to be an officer. You get sued if you do your job right; everyone is a Monday morning quarterback. Shift work with bad pay. Worthless retirement.

It was a no win situation for the jury- they chose the path of least resistance for themselves and for the the city. It will still burn, sooner or later. This will only embolden criminals. Live like a thug, prey on society, and get a huge pay out, either for you or your family.

The precedent for mob rule is now set. God help us.

Exactly. EXACTLY.

Officers MUST be able to use warranted violence, and some allowance has to be given for warranted violence to cause harm or death. It is totally obvious that some of the violence was warranted.

However, it is hard for me, on gut reaction, to think that all of Chauvin's actions were warranted. It is hard for me to imagine that no matter how worried I was about how large floyd was, I would continue to pin him. I think I'd sit him up cuffed, and pull my taser maybe to zap him if he gets up(an actual taser). That may have killed him too but at least I would have felt sure I was controlling him properly.

Of course hindsight is 2020 and I'm sitting here in my armchair guessing what I'd do, which is pretty stupid.

But considering the testimony of multiple fellow officers who refused to stand by Chauvin's actions, confirming my prejudices, I think I would have felt little choice but to find him guilty of at least manslaughter and murder III.

Officers MUST also be responsible for the proper control of their violence or else they become the Gestapo. There is little that makes me angrier than a police force who can go into the wrong person's house and kill their dog and maybe kill them. (I don't care how rare it is either) They need to control themselves.

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2021, 3:12 pm Why would anyone become a police officer now?

Everyone is welcome to become one...but they have to follow the rules...

Big Cities going to blaze for 4/20 tonight in more ways than one...

You didn't offer a manslaughter option. I have a hard time with a cop doing what he did. I wouldn't call it murder at least not first degree which wasn't an option. But, any cop, on video for that long doing what he did, took a risk, or was paid to do it, whatever. Anyway, do something like that and the person dies, it is "killing them", with whatever you call it. It was very stupid and a man died, and our country used it as a weapon. For that he is either, stupid, or CIA like they say. Either way. Hang him for screwing all of us folks.

I tend to agree that Chauvin was outta line. Police have a hard job, but Floyd shouldn't have been treated like he was for as long as he was. He probably would have died anyway in the cop car or the ground if they had just cuffed him and waited.....i don't understand why Chauvin would have kept the knee on his neck like he did with people all around objecting and taking video..seems really suspicious....inside job of some sort....nothing is as it seems........the verdict should stop all the violence in west coast cities though right???? Antifa is just a dream and BLM's marxist founder has several homes worth three million dollars......oh ya I forgot those topics are off limits....I can't wait for the real news to fill us all in on why a marxist needs personal property and wealth while advocating for just the opposite for the rest of us.....I'm wondering when black privilege will become a thing....

TheDuke wrote: ↑April 20th, 2021, 10:50 pm You didn't offer a manslaughter option. I have a hard time with a cop doing what he did. I wouldn't call it murder at least not first degree which wasn't an option. But, any cop, on video for that long doing what he did, took a risk, or was paid to do it, whatever. Anyway, do something like that and the person dies, it is "killing them", with whatever you call it. It was very stupid and a man died, and our country used it as a weapon. For that he is either, stupid, or CIA like they say. Either way. Hang him for screwing all of us folks.

I didn’t offer manslaughter, because I was only interested hearing if people thought he intentionally killed him with a murderous intent, essentially. Listen to the news, and they make it out like that was his goal. So I wanted to see what people here thought.

Destroyer wrote: ↑April 20th, 2021, 3:22 pm It's a no win situation to be an officer. You get sued if you do your job right; everyone is a Monday morning quarterback. Shift work with bad pay. Worthless retirement.

It was a no win situation for the jury- they chose the path of least resistance for themselves and for the the city. It will still burn, sooner or later. This will only embolden criminals. Live like a thug, prey on society, and get a huge pay out, either for you or your family.

The precedent for mob rule is now set. God help us.

I thought cops had qualified immunity?

The problem as I see it is you get a bunch of politicians that raise there hands over meaningless words on a piece of paper and then the police go out and feel like they have to make every word come to life through enforcement.

There is no common sense any longer. Common sense tells you that if you place your knee on someones neck for 9 minutes bad things will happen.

I can't remember the persons name but he was the guy that was choked to death by cops for selling individual cigarettes in NY. I blame the politicians that passed a ridiculous law for his death more than I blame the cops for enforcing such a law. In a free society a law like that one would not exist.

Laws and police are a symptom of an immoral society, not a sign of a safe and just society.

For those that believe cops make us safer, answer this question. When do police show up at the scene of a crime?

Vision wrote: ↑April 21st, 2021, 7:08 am

Destroyer wrote: ↑April 20th, 2021, 3:22 pm It's a no win situation to be an officer. You get sued if you do your job right; everyone is a Monday morning quarterback. Shift work with bad pay. Worthless retirement.

It was a no win situation for the jury- they chose the path of least resistance for themselves and for the the city. It will still burn, sooner or later. This will only embolden criminals. Live like a thug, prey on society, and get a huge pay out, either for you or your family.

The precedent for mob rule is now set. God help us.

I thought cops had qualified immunity?

Doesn’t look like it.

Vision wrote: ↑April 21st, 2021, 7:20 am The problem as I see it is you get a bunch of politicians that raise there hands over meaningless words on a piece of paper and then the police go out and feel like they have to make every word come to life through enforcement.

There is no common sense any longer. Common sense tells you that if you place your knee on someones neck for 9 minutes bad things will happen.

I can't remember the persons name but he was the guy that was choked to death by cops for selling individual cigarettes in NY. I blame the politicians that passed a ridiculous law for his death more than I blame the cops for enforcing such a law. In a free society a law like that one would not exist.

Laws and police are a symptom of an immoral society, not a sign of a safe and just society.

For those that believe cops make us safer, answer this question. When do police show up at the scene of a crime?

a few years ago, my husband and I were stopped by a wsp (Washington state patrol) for allegedly speeding... Lol....the female trooper came up to the car with her weapon drawn. My husband is a conceal carry permit holder and when she checked our license plate she had that info. My husband rolled down the window and held his hands up as she approached. She ordered him out of the truck and asked him where his gun was. Then she frisked him and told him to stay in front of the vehicle with his hands touching the vehicle. She checked his license and asked me to get the registration\insurance out of the glove box, which I did. It was a pretty tense situation. After she checked his ID and registration she allowed my husband to get back into the vehicle and let us go without a warning. Needless to say we felt really violated and thought the cop was totally out of line. My husband was probably speeding as he always does and would have been justified getting a ticket, but since when are troopers so paranoid they are walking with guns drawn to a traffic stop for no apparent reason other than a ccp? I blame politicians and all the stupid laws there are to break. But when people keep voting in the jack asses (democrats for those who don't know) this is what you get......the cops are in a hard place between the corrupt politicians and the.law abiding public who get caught up for minor infractions for revenue.....the criminal element doesn't follow any rules anyway......so ya less stupid rules would be better....it is the fault of the politicians....

farmerchick wrote: ↑April 20th, 2021, 11:08 pm I'm wondering when black privilege will become a thing....

Ha! It already is.

In all major corps today there is a war on white males especially religious ones. There is an obvious purging through hiring practices and holding a higher standard for white males vs other minorities.

There are multi-nationals that gave automatic raises to all black employees if they weren’t making as much as white peers—regardless of performance and tenure.

Vision wrote: ↑April 21st, 2021, 7:08 am

Destroyer wrote: ↑April 20th, 2021, 3:22 pm It's a no win situation to be an officer. You get sued if you do your job right; everyone is a Monday morning quarterback. Shift work with bad pay. Worthless retirement.

It was a no win situation for the jury- they chose the path of least resistance for themselves and for the the city. It will still burn, sooner or later. This will only embolden criminals. Live like a thug, prey on society, and get a huge pay out, either for you or your family.

The precedent for mob rule is now set. God help us.

I thought cops had qualified immunity?

Qualified immunity could be granted by a court, and often is. It doesn't stop a suit from being filed. I was never sued, but officers I worked with were. It's not my intent here to discuss qualified immunity. My comment was, more or less, my list of reasons as to why I left law enforcement.

It's going to continue be a struggle to get good people who want to take on the job when there's so much vitriol toward the profession.

DesertWonderer2 wrote: ↑April 21st, 2021, 10:35 am

farmerchick wrote: ↑April 20th, 2021, 11:08 pm I'm wondering when black privilege will become a thing....

Ha! It already is.

In all major corps today there is a war on white males especially religious ones. There is an obvious purging through hiring practices and holding a higher standard for white males vs other minorities.

There are multi-nationals that gave automatic raises to all black employees if they weren’t making as much as white peers—regardless of performance and tenure.

Ya...i know...but when will those words "black privilege be verbalized by pundits"...probably never.....white privilege is fair game but black privilege dare not be spoken....

Lexew1899 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2021, 2:26 pm Looks like these are the 3 charges he is being accused of, that the jury can select. I’m betting he will be charged of one of them at least. I’d betting zero chance he walks.

Second-degree unintentional murder means causing death without intent by committing a felony.

Second-degree manslaughter is causing death by unreasonable risk.

Third-degree murder means causing death by an “eminently dangerous” act, showing a “depraved mind.”

Lack of intelligence.
How can a person do all three. When a person murders, the victim can only be killed once. anything beyond that is desecration of the corpse.
Plus the 2nd degree requires a predicate felony in Minnesota. The person was not charged with a predicate felony so the 2nd degree should have been dropped, If there is such a thing called "rule of law" in this country any more.
It is all a side show, a sham, proof that there are no brains involved, proof that there is no "rule of law".
more likely there will be an appeal on the above grounds and he will win the appeal.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/no-person ... Daily%20AM

'No person can say this was a fair trial': Candace Owens weighs in on Chauvin guilty verdict

BRECK DUMAS
April 20, 2021

Candace Owens decried the guilty verdict against former Minneapolis police Officer Derek Chauvin as "mob justice," telling Fox News' Tucker Carlson that "no person can say this was a fair trial."

Chauvin was convicted Tuesday afternoon on all three counts including second- and third-degree murder charges in the death of George Floyd.

Tuesday evening, Owens joined Carlson to provide her take on the outcome of the trial, telling the host, "What we're really seeing is mob justice, and that's really what happened with this entire trial."

"This was not a trial about George Floyd or Derek Chauvin," she argued. "This was a trial about whether the media was powerful enough to create a simulation and decide upon a narrative absent any facts."

Speaking of Floyd, Owens told Carlson:

"You know, the media came out — let's not forget this, Tucker — the media came out and told us that this was a man who was just getting his life together, he was a good member of society, and he got mixed up because a racist, white police officer had it out for him and killed him. All of that fell apart...we now know, of course, that he had enough fentanyl in him, it was three times the lethal dosage — three times the lethal dosage — in him when he died. But nobody cares because the media was successful in putting out a narrative and they kept hitting that narrative."

Owens went on to say that "the reason Democrats are happy is because they realize, of course, the media supports them and [that] now means that Democrats can get whatever they want because they can create a narrative and then they can treat people like pawns and basically get them to say, 'if we don't get what we want, we will riot, we will loot, we will send these people out like soldiers to destroy neighborhoods.' And that is exactly what has happened."

She added, "This was not a fair trial. No person can say this was a fair trial."

The jury members were afraid for their lives if they found Chauvin anything but guilty across the board. And who can blame them, with violent communists like Maxine Waters in the U.S. Congress.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/dershowit ... ing%20News

Dershowitz predicts Derek Chauvin's conviction will be overturned, citing Maxine Waters, Al Sharpton

CHRIS ENLOE
April 21, 2021

Legal scholar Alan Dershowitz predicted Monday that Derek Chauvin's conviction would be overturned on appeal because of the unusual number of "outside influences" that potentially tainted the jury, which was unsequestered for the majority of the trial.

Chauvin was convicted Tuesday of murdering George Floyd last May. The jury reached a verdict more quickly than expected, declaring Chauvin guilty of second-degree murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter.

Speaking on Newmax TV, Dershowitz declared that Chauvin's actions were "inexcusable morally," but called the verdict "very questionable," citing outside influences.

In fact, Dershowitz said the verdict "should be" overturned on appeal.

"The verdict is very questionable because of the outside influences from people like Al Sharpton and Maxine Waters. Their threats and intimidation and hanging the 'Sword of Damocles' over the jury — basically saying that if you don't convict on the murder charge, or all the charges, the cities will burn, the country will be destroyed — seeped into the jury room because the judge made a terrible mistake by not sequestering a jury," Dershowitz explained.

"I think it should be reversed on appeal," he predicted.

Despite the amount of attention Chauvin's trial received, the jury was only fully sequestered on Monday when closing arguments took place.

Because the jurors were not sequestered for the duration of the trial and were open to outside voices threatening protest violence, Dershowitz said it would be inconceivable to think the jurors were not consciously or subconsciously weighing the impact their decision would have on society.

"That should never, ever be allowed to seep into a jury room," Dershowitz said, adding that he has no confidence the verdict was "produced by due process and the rule of law."

Dershowitz predicted Chauvin's case will ultimately be heard by the U.S. Supreme Court, which he said would be Chauvin's best hope for a conviction reversal.

Citing Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) and Al Sharpton, Dershowitz said, "These folks took what they did right out of the playbook of the Deep South in the 1920s when prominent public officials would whoop up the crowds in front of the courthouse, demanding conviction of black people and acquittal of white people."

"The Supreme Court and other courts reversed convictions based on that because jurors should not be intimidated or influenced by what goes on outside the courtroom," he added.

Specifically, Dershowitz cited the infamous Sam Sheppard murder trial in the 1950s. Sheppard was convicted of murdering his wife, but was exonerated a decade later. The U.S. Supreme Court ultimately determined Sheppard was deprived of a fair trial because the jury was tainted by media attention that engulfed the case.

Dershowitz also said Judge Peter Cahill, the judge who presided over Chauvin's trial, supports his hypothesis.

On Monday, Cahill castigated Waters for urging protesters to "get more confrontational" if Chauvin was not found guilty. "You got to make sure that they know we mean business," Waters said.

Cahill said Waters' comments could be used by the defense in an appeal to argue for a mistrial.

"I will give you that Congresswoman Waters may have given you something on appeal that may result in this whole trial being overturned," Cahill said after denying the defense's motion for a mistrial over Waters' remarks.

"This goes back to what I've been saying from the beginning. I wish elected officials would stop talking about this case especially in a manner that is disrespectful to the rule of law, and to the judicial branch and our function," the judge added. "I think if they want to give their opinions they should do so in a respectful and in a manner that is consistent with their oath to the Constitution to respect a coequal branch of government."

"Their failure to do so is abhorrent!" he said.

Doesn’t make any sense to not sequester them the entire time. How could this not be tossed out?

Lexew1899 wrote: ↑April 21st, 2021, 3:09 pm Doesn’t make any sense to not sequester them the entire time. How could this not be tossed out?

Right?!? I was in shock when I read that. Of ALL cases, how in the world would they not sequester them from the first moment? But then, the answer becomes clear - they wanted the jury to know that they would be killed and the country would be burned down by the communist terrorists (redundant) if they did not find him guilty on all charges - so they made sure the jury had access to the complicit media.

It should, of course, be tossed out and Chauvin be given a new trial, done right this time - after Waters, et al, have been impeached/removed from office for inciting violence. But it's too late, as any new jury members would know they would have to find him guilty, too, whether they were properly sequestered or not. The mob has won - again.

farmerchick wrote: ↑April 20th, 2021, 11:08 pm ..i don't understand why Chauvin would have kept the knee on his neck like he did with people all around objecting and taking video..

Because that is what police are taught to do. It's a technique used in a few countries. People ask why did he do it for so long? He wasn't there with a stop watch checking how long and with all of the shouting and noise going on, you can lose track of time especially if you are the one being abused. He was just doing his job.

I wouldn't be surprised if cops resign or refuse to do certain calls and I would not blame them one bit.

Yesterday's guilty decision was made out if fear, fear of what would happen. Antifa and blm were ready to take the place apart. If they are not considered terrorists, who the hell are?

BLM and antifa want cops gone and a disarmed public. Yesterday showed how close they have come to achieving that.

It also reminds me of Joseph's prophecy of a second civil war starting in a craphole called Chicago. It is closer than ever and looks like one based on race. I saw one report by a Jewish reporter who asked some of these model citizens some questions. One believed killing white people might be what's needed so they know what it's like for blacks. It doesn't bode well for America.

Those of the light really have a hard time understanding evil. I for one hope I never fully do.

See the verdict was bought and paid for. That's how come Biden and Waters could spew their rantings to make it appear they are concerned the jury would actually do what is right.

Officer Chauvin had no chance of a fair trial.
Additional outrage and violence was threatened should Officer Chauvin been found not guilty.
Big issue with juries is that they are often not sophisticated enough to understand the evidence or lack thereof presented and in this case no change of venue was done for this trial when they were under the duress of intimidation.

The women in the car with George Floyd stated she had trouble keeping him awake. No one addressed his recent COVID.

Video from fellow Police Officers' chest cameras clearly show Officer Chauvins' knee was on Floyds' shoulder the whole time. Whereas the public video angles made it look like Chauvin was kneeling right on Floyds' neck, but he was not at any time. Autopsy showed no trachial injury.

George Floyd had also OVERDOSED a year prior, when he swallowed illegal drugs as he was about to be arrested.

George Floyd was already very high on drugs and acting as a typical crackhead when in the grocery store. He then ate the rest of the drug evidence as the Police attempted to arrest him. He had to be restrained due to combativeness, but was able to scream "I can't breathe" loudly enough to be picked up by cell phones at a distance, indicating he was moving air in and out of his chest very well.

George Floyd died by acting foolishly and breaking the law while euphoric on the drugs he had taken. High levels of Fentanyl in his system contributed to his severely low oxygen levels. Narcotics slow breathing to the point of having trouble breathing.

George Floyd had meth and fentanyl in his system when he died, his fentanyl level was three times the potential fatal overdose level. He died whilst under the influence of non prescribed substances and while being restrained in a manner recommended by the Minneapolis Police department, keeping the face down and away to prevent the spread of COVID.

George Floyd's comorbidities were:

Atypical angina (SOB) caused by the overdose ongoing due to recent addition ingestion.
Arteriosclerotic heart disease, multifocal, severe.
Hypertensive heart disease.
Cardiomegaly (540 g) with mild biventricular dilatation.
Coronary artery disease.
Clinical history of hypertension.
Hydrogen ion (acidosis).
Methamphetamines, as well as many of the agents it is made with, can cause acidosis. Toxins can found in street drugs and other chemicals used in the making of meth.
Severe disease in the LAD and RCA) which with stress etc can be associated with myocardial ischemia and cardiac arrest.
Sickle Cell Trait: Under stress and in hypoxic conditions, like opioid overdose with the many other drugs and stresses, sickling and vaso-occlusive crisis certainly can happen in those with Sickle Cell Trait.


George Floyd had in his blood:
1. Fentanyl 11 ng/mL
2. Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL
3. 4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL
4. Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL
5. 11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL;
Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL.
6. Cotinine positive.
7. Caffeine positive.

.

Fentanyl and meth, what an icky combination. Sounds like a nasty-feeling high. Poor man's speedball I guess.

Anyway, obviously George Floyd killed George Floyd.