What signals the beginning of the Millennium?

NoGreaterLove · Post by **NoGreaterLove** » February 17th, 2009, 8:59 am

I think this would be an excellent topic to discuss. Lets gather up our intellect here and tap some resources to see what we can come up with.
Hopefully we will use the scriptures and modern day revelation to come up with a viable answer.
I happen to be one of those who does not think we are in the Millennium yet, but who knows, maybe I am wrong.
Here is a scripture to start us off:

Rev 6:12-16
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heavens opened as a scroll is opened when it is rolled together; and every mountain, and island, was moved out of its place.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountain;.
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 7:1-4
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God; and I heard him cry with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And the number of them who were sealed, were an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel

1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

NoGreaterLove · Post by **NoGreaterLove** » February 17th, 2009, 9:07 am

Y VOICE OF THE PRIESTHOOD

This council in the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman is to be of the greatest importance to this world. At that time there will be a transfer of authority from the usurper and imposter, Lucifer, to the rightful King, Jesus Christ. Judgment will be set and all who have held keys will make their reports and deliver their stewardships, as they shall be required. Adam will direct this judgment, and then he will make his report, as the one holding the keys for this earth, to his Superior Officer, Jesus Christ. Our Lord will then assume the reigns of government; directions will be given to the Priesthood; and He, whose right it is to rule, will be installed officially by the voice of the Priesthood there assembled. This grand council of Priesthood will be composed, not only of those who are faithful who now dwell on this earth, but also of the prophets and apostles of old, who have had directing authority. Others may also be there, but if so they will be there by appointment, for this is to be an official council called to attend to the most momentous matters concerning the destiny of this earth.When this gathering is held, the world will not know of it; the members of the Church at large will not know of it, yet it shall be preparatory to the coming in the clouds of glory of our Savior Jesus Christ as the Prophet Joseph Smith has said. The world cannot know of it. The Saints cannot know of it-except those who officially shall be called into this council-for it shall precede the coming of Jesus Christ as a thief in the night, unbeknown to all the world.

Joseph Fielding Smith, Way to Perfection, p. 291

But Doctrine and Covenants 77 states that the seventh seal and the seventh thousand years coincide. That being the case, the Millennium will have begun before the Second Coming at the time the Savior begins to reign on this earth at the great council at Adam-Ondi-Ahman. According to Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, "At that time there will be a transfer of authority from the usurper and imposter, Lucifer, to the rightful King, Jesus Christ. Judgment will be set and all who have held keys will make their reports and deliver their stewardships, as they shall be required. Adam will direct this judgment, and then he will make his report, as the one holding the keys for this earth, to his Superior Officer, Jesus Christ. Our Lord will then assume the reigns of government; directions will be given to the Priesthood; and He, whose right it is to rule, will be installed officially by the voice of the Priesthood there assembled."
Richard D. Draper, Opening of the Seven Seals, P. 95

NoGreaterLove · Post by **NoGreaterLove** » February 17th, 2009, 9:11 am

It seems clear that the indicator of when the Millennium starts is, who holds the keys? At this time President Monson does.

kathyn · Post by **kathyn** » February 17th, 2009, 2:42 pm

The great meeting at Adam-Ondi-Ahman could occur at almost any time but we won't know about it, for the most part. We haven't yet had a huge earthquake that signals the end of the sixth seal and the opening of the seventh, have we? I do know the earth wobbled a bit during the Indonesian quake and tsunami. But I am expecting something even more tremendous than that.

At any rate, it must be very close now.

Oldemandalton · Post by **Oldemandalton** » February 17th, 2009, 5:25 pm

I have a few questions in regards to these events.

Who are the key holders and stewards who will attend The Meeting, would this include Bishops, Elder Quorum Pres, Teacher’s Q. Pres, etc?

Could this ‘great earthquake’ have happened earlier during the 6th thousand years or has it not happened yet? I know there have been some big volcanic eruptions in the past. Do any of these fit the description?

Could the 144k all be resurrected beings and have been sealed already or later without our knowledge in the Spirit World?

Old Man Dalton

NoGreaterLove · Post by **NoGreaterLove** » February 17th, 2009, 6:41 pm

The 144000 will be a combination of those alive today and those who have passed on. I read a patriarchal blessing given to someone who was alive during Joseph Smiths day and he was told he was one of the 144000 and I know of one person who is alive today with the same promise.

kathyn · Post by **kathyn** » February 17th, 2009, 8:58 pm

I believe that the Millenium will be under way a few years before the actual Second Coming that the whole world will witness. The Lord will come to His temple (He's done that already) and He'll come to Adam-Ondi-Ahman; then He'll appear on the Mount of Olives. Some time after that will be the Second Coming when Christ appears to the whole world. At least that is how I understand it.

How awesome would it be to be one of the 144k! I'm a woman, so I'll never know but I still think it will be a marvelous thing.

Col. Flagg · Post by **Col. Flagg** » February 18th, 2009, 11:02 am

My personal opinion is that we are in the 'silence in heaven for half an hour' period. If we assume the year 2000 to be the end of the 6th seal, we can deduce that based on the notion that one day to the Lord is 1,000 years to us, that a half hour of silence is about 21 years, which would put us at the year 2021 before the 7th seal is opened. However, Christ's 2nd coming occurs after the 6th seal closes, but before the 7th opens. Thus, we could have the 2nd coming anytime between now and the year 2021 (although we know certain events must occur first, such as the two witnesses who prophecy for 3 1/2 years in Jerusalem and then they are killed and their bodies lay in the street for 3 days before they are resurrected, to the astonishment and bewilderment of the people and also the battle of Armageddon, which Christ stops before Israel is overtaken and defeated. A lot still has to happen, but it would seem strange for all this to occur in the next 12 years. Who knows though.

kathyn · Post by **kathyn** » February 18th, 2009, 11:42 am

I had thought that perhaps the end of the sixth seal and the beginning of the seventh might overlap.
Wouldn't it be nice if Pres. Monson would come right out and tell us when it happens? I hope I live long enough to see most of it, though.

Emmanuel Goldstein · February 18th, 2009, 1:53 pm

The millennium will begin sometime before the year 3000 A.D. 8)
Christ came at the meridian of time about 4000 years after the fall. In that case we have gone about 2000 years since his time and we have 1000 years of the millennium. That leaves about 1000 years or less of the little season afterwards. 'A little season,' could be from 1 year to 1000 years long. So, at some time in the next 1000 years Christ will come to the earth to usher in the millenium. 8)
I would love to live to see it.

Col. Flagg · Post by **Col. Flagg** » February 18th, 2009, 1:53 pm

kathyn wrote:I had thought that perhaps the end of the sixth seal and the beginning of the seventh might overlap.

They do.

Wouldn't it be nice if Pres. Monson would come right out and tell us when it happens?

Don't hold your breath Kathy.

I hope I live long enough to see most of it, though.

LukeAir2008 · Post by **LukeAir2008** » February 20th, 2009, 12:01 pm

SwissMrs&Pitchfire · February 20th, 2009, 12:38 pm

The answer to "what signals the beginning" in my opinion is Adam-Ondi-Ahman. When the keys of all the dispensations are passed on to He who's right it is to hold them, that is the moment. Only then can He retrun in glory to rule and reign. That is why it is said that He will come "as a thief in the night" and yet be seen by all when He comes in glory. It is His coming and receipt that establishes the moment.

NoGreaterLove · Post by **NoGreaterLove** » February 28th, 2009, 11:19 am

kathyn wrote:
I had thought that perhaps the end of the sixth seal and the beginning of the seventh might overlap.

My personal thoughts on why so many think it overlaps is due to the following:
When Christ opens a seal, he does not put it back on again. It appears to me that when John saw a seal opened he saw what was to transpire from the opening of that seal until the coming of Christ in his glory. So as each seal was opened, a new dimension of events were added to the scene. So when He opens the six seal, John states what he saw from that opening until Christ returns in His glory to Jerusalem.
Any thoughts on what I just said?

SwissMrs&Pitchfire · February 28th, 2009, 12:35 pm

My thoughts go more like...that there is some overlap as in the times of the Israel vs. gentiles. The apostles in Christ's day went to the gentiles and yet their time was not yet. In our day we have seen many of the signs pointing to the times of Israel fullfilled concurrently with our own time of the gentiles (our meaning our time, not to imply that we are gentiles except in a national capacity).

Likewise we know that there will be meetings at Adam-Ondi-Ahmen. We know trumps will sound seven burning objects in the heavens, red heifers, and on and on. But they don't all happen at the same time notwithsatnding them being events that characterize the dawning of the millenium.

Perhaps seeing the events in vision from way back when it was enough to say that they all happened together around this time and not bother with splitting hairs. We are so close we want to split hairs, but they weren't and likely it isn't overly important.

The vast majority of the church will not know when Christ returns (as a thief in the night) to Adam-Ondi-Ahmen (if He hasn't already which I sometimes wonder as of late though I expect the persecution first notwithstanding the fact that anyone living righteously has likely never faced such persecution as we do now though in subtler ways than sticks and stones).

Likewise we must remeber that the 144,000 is 12,000 from each tribe of Israel and made up of those who have held the pertinent keys in all the dispensations (remember this is about returning all the keys to He who's right it is to hold them). That likely cuts us out of the show and we shouldn't mind that as we all have our gifts.

NoGreaterLove · Post by **NoGreaterLove** » February 28th, 2009, 1:03 pm

The reason I do not think that the millennium is here yet, it because President Monson still holds the keys here on earth. So it makes sense to me that Adom-ondi-amen has not occurred yet. I kind of think we have at least 3 or four years before this happens because the New Jerusalem is not even started to be built yet in a temporal sense. We as saints still have a 3 1/2 year tribulation to hit us and I do not think that has even began yet. It seems as though the political forces are in place to make it happen.

NoGreaterLove · Post by **NoGreaterLove** » February 28th, 2009, 2:38 pm

Gman007
Interesting post. But could these things happen more than once?

bobhenstra · Post by **bobhenstra** » February 28th, 2009, 11:24 pm

How awesome would it be to be one of the 144k! I'm a woman, so I'll never know but I still think it will be a marvelous thing.

Kathyn, Priest and priestess, if your husband is called, so also my dear sister, are you!

Bob

MercynGrace · Post by **MercynGrace** » March 1st, 2009, 7:25 am

bobhenstra wrote:How awesome would it be to be one of the 144k! I'm a woman, so I'll never know but I still think it will be a marvelous thing.

Kathyn, Priest and priestess, if your husband is called, so also my dear sister, are you!

Bob

Fascinating. My father and I just had the same discussion yesterday and he said the same thing, Bob. Husbands and wives would be called to A-O-A.

NoGreaterLove · Post by **NoGreaterLove** » March 1st, 2009, 7:43 am

Bob
Thanks for reminding us of our wives roles. It gives me joy to remember that!

JHYoung · Post by **JHYoung** » March 1st, 2009, 3:42 pm

This topic reminds me of the book The Seer by Orson Pratt.
Anybody read it?

I know it isn't doctrine but is it fake in content?
I mean in regard to the visions of Joseph it relates.
Did Pratt know Joseph well enough for Joseph to provide him with the content and details of his visions?

NoGreaterLove · Post by **NoGreaterLove** » March 1st, 2009, 4:42 pm

JHYoung

never heard of the book "The Seer" by Orson Pratt. What is it about?

kathyn · Post by **kathyn** » March 1st, 2009, 9:28 pm

Kathyn, Priest and priestess, if your husband is called, so also my dear sister, are you!

Bob

Wow! I had never thought of it that way. Thank you, bob; that increases even more my desire to be of service in these last days. I may be of some use, yet!

SwissMrs&Pitchfire · Post by **SwissMrs&Pitchfire** » March 2nd, 2009, 12:48 pm

because the New Jerusalem is not even started to be built yet in a temporal sense.

Well, a temple has been announced, that's a start!

We also must remember that the 144,000 is 12,000 from each tribe and only they who hold the keys for their generation (remember the point is to transfer all the keys back to Adam so he can hand it back to Christ who's right it is to rule and reign). Those kind of keys are not widely held.

Do you think that any women hold keys that are neccesary to be restored to their rightful owner? Perhaps.

Remember too that there will be meetings, not just a meeting. It will also be organisational and restorational after the keys have been restored.

bobhenstra · Post by **bobhenstra** » March 2nd, 2009, 1:57 pm

kathyn wrote:
Kathyn, Priest and priestess, if your husband is called, so also my dear sister, are you!
Wow! I had never thought of it that way. Thank you, bob; that increases even more my desire to be of service in these last days. I may be of some use, yet!

Your going to be fine, tithing, fast offering increase, serving in your calling, study, prayer, and seeking the Spirit to testify and cleanse you.

The 144,000 is a very small percentage of the whole church (past present and near future).

So getting caught up in seeking for position isn't wise-----------

Bob

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