LDS Freedom Forum

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 27th, 2021, 5:50 pm Like I said feel free to disagree. But, statistics don't lie. And I also said and agree it takes parents reviewing and working with their kids at home to keep them straight. But, sure home school send them off to college and see what becomes of them. I think it is far better to public school and take them by the hand as they go through it so they have all the ughooo's while you are there to help them through it. My kids are fine.They were all raised predominantly in Seattle area schools. They've been at these strange teachings for years. My wife and I spent many hours correcting truths, even challenging teachers. But, it is worth it. IMO.

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 27th, 2021, 9:21 pm Cosmic: I am awake and I do smell the coffee. I deal with 13 grandchildren and eight children (twice married). I'm well aware of how things are, as are my grandchildren's parents. But, I guess if things are as bad as you're saying where you're living. I'd sell my home and move some place that is more level. Even, Seattle area is still managable, like I said takes my children some time to work with them. Maybe have to keep the wife home to have enough time to review the stuff. And yes things are worse, but hours in the kids school days are less if anything than before. And NO the teachings have always needed to be sifted. But, multi-dimensional experiences is the purpose of life. But, what better for a child than to stay home, not watch TV as it is worse than school, get secular teaching from a parent with all their knowledge of math, science, engineering, history, etc... and have the same person(s) teach church doctrine. Sorry, sounds like Satan's plan to me. Same as in the pre-existence. Guess he won that battle after all.

BTW I worked every darn day well before sun up 40 years ago to be home when my kids got off the bus (2:20 pm) almost every day, and my wife didn't work until the last one was in school, then part-time only until they ALL graduated. We did plenty of reading their studies. That process still works today, and even more so when the subtleties are so huge even the young see the contradictions.

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 27th, 2021, 9:24 pm I'm a rebel Mormon and outspoken critic from way back, I've been branded from birth. Nothing new here. Let them cancel away, my family knows what I believe and what the issues are. If any of my children or grandchildren don't like it so be it but they know it.

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 27th, 2021, 9:46 pm Cosmic no more to discuss. You're making things personal. That is NOT acceptable. You sound like another person on this forum, since removed that threw stones at previous generation. Go you're way. I feel sorry for your children. You seem way to jaded with your poor sad life handed to you by us older folks that worked our buts off to keep freedom as long as it survived so far. Every generation has same issues. Just the younger ones seem to think they're the first to encounter them. I'd suggest reading Isaiah for some old school thoughts on how in the last days the younger, smarter ones did things different and so much better........... This one example.

NO need to reply.

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑March 27th, 2021, 10:05 pm Sometimes this forum is enlightening. Sometimes not so much... let’s keep some dignity.

Public schools have their place, as does homeschool, I have many friends in both places. I know kids in public school that have social abilities in need of much improvement, and homeschool kids who I’ll take lessons on it from. Most of that has to do with the home environment they are raised in.

My opinion is that there needs to be a mix of both. A level of social interaction is necessary, but they are also fed a lot of outright lies. I went to 4 high schools in 2 different states and had teachers pushing their crazy ideas all the time, from 9/11 to “you’re an idiot if you don’t vaccinate.”

I could go on and on about the benefits and tragedies of both, but this post is mostly for two certain individuals who have had a disagreement. The beauty of this forum is that we can disagree peacefully, or move on with our lives.

Edit: I don’t care what you do, this is just a place for thoughts and I thought it.

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 27th, 2021, 5:50 pm Like I said feel free to disagree. But, statistics don't lie. And I also said and agree it takes parents reviewing and working with their kids at home to keep them straight. But, sure home school send them off to college and see what becomes of them. I think it is far better to public school and take them by the hand as they go through it so they have all the ughooo's while you are there to help them through it. My kids are fine.They were all raised predominantly in Seattle area schools. They've been at these strange teachings for years. My wife and I spent many hours correcting truths, even challenging teachers. But, it is worth it. IMO.

CosmicMind wrote: ↑March 27th, 2021, 9:38 pm

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 27th, 2021, 9:21 pm Cosmic: I am awake and I do smell the coffee. I deal with 13 grandchildren and eight children (twice married). I'm well aware of how things are, as are my grandchildren's parents. But, I guess if things are as bad as you're saying where you're living. I'd sell my home and move some place that is more level. Even, Seattle area is still managable, like I said takes my children some time to work with them. Maybe have to keep the wife home to have enough time to review the stuff. And yes things are worse, but hours in the kids school days are less if anything than before. And NO the teachings have always needed to be sifted. But, multi-dimensional experiences is the purpose of life. But, what better for a child than to stay home, not watch TV as it is worse than school, get secular teaching from a parent with all their knowledge of math, science, engineering, history, etc... and have the same person(s) teach church doctrine. Sorry, sounds like Satan's plan to me. Same as in the pre-existence. Guess he won that battle after all.

BTW I worked every darn day well before sun up 40 years ago to be home when my kids got off the bus (2:20 pm) almost every day, and my wife didn't work until the last one was in school, then part-time only until they ALL graduated. We did plenty of reading their studies. That process still works today, and even more so when the subtleties are so huge even the young see the contradictions.

No you aren't "well aware" of how things are. You are stuck in the past not wanting to admit what you and your generation utterly and completely failed to do-which was actually transmit your culture and traditions to the next generation.

And then when the younger generation actually attempts to do what you failed to do you castigate them for it. Bugger off man; the whole blasted reason we are having to deal with this problem is because of a lack of courage on your generations part to do hard things. Because your generation handed off the transmission of culture to others who didn't give a darn about your traditional values.

I got no patience for your kind. It's the same blasted message for typical "Church leaders" and why the whole LGBTQ+ has utterly invaded the Church. No one wanted to take a stand, no one wanted to really fight it-it was "more important" to be socially acceptable than to be right before God.

I don't give a rip how many days your worked and how much "sacrifice" you made in "reading their studies". The world has changed-so why don't you actually let those who are in the fight now actually do the fighting rather than sit on your high horse about how awesome a job you did all some 20-30-40 years ago when you didn't have 20% of the teenagers saying they are LGBTQ+.

If you and the rest of your generation had done your job; my job wouldn't be so hard right now-so I got no use for the older generation telling me that I'm raising my kids wrong b/c I sure couldn't screw up much worse than your generation already screwed up.

markharr wrote: ↑March 28th, 2021, 9:58 am I get it about homeschooled kids being socially ackward. I don't think I know any myself who aren't socially ackward. On the other hand, I would rather have a socially ackward kid than one who grows up deeply depressed. Believing they are the cause of the worlds issues due to something they have no control over.

There was a recent controversy in one of the Jordan River School district high schools due to the number of suicides. The principal was run out and replaced with a new woke principal who put signs all over the school telling the kids how much they matter and other programs that wouldn't do a single thing to prevent a suicide.

If the kids are suicidal it is because they are being taught that they are horrible people who are the cause of climate change, racism and all other human suffering. They are being taught that they are doing something right if they feel shame for being white. Then after hearing that in the classroom, they walk out into the hall to see banners telling them how special they are.

No wonder these kids are messed up.

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 27th, 2021, 10:11 am A true dilemma. Better teach correct principles at home and correct school teachings every day. But, homeschooling is terrible. I have NEVER once seen a child homeschooled that can fit into society. If you think you have seen such, then I suppose you either ignore their awkward strangeness or don't care about being societal, which is playing even more into the "wear a mask", "don't be social", "hide from truth", etc....

School education is mostly to prepare a child to go into society. Having homeshooled church, homeschooled school, etc... is an injustice. Sorry for being frank. But, those are the types of children the go wild when finally let lose or worse and turn to more strange behaviors because they are so uncomfortable in public.

Feel free to disagree, I'm only 65, and have seen this for many, many years in several states across US.I've seen many children grow up. And I have personally seen no exceptions.

[With respect to the Fourth Turning] I was having a conversation with someone about that last night, and we both agreed that if 9/11 was indeed the Fourth Turning tipping point/catalyst, the last 20 years have failed to produce a hero generation.

He speculated, however, that in 2020, COVID may indeed have become the catalyst, and with the number of people who have pulled their kids out of public schools, a new "boom" generation of home schoolers might actually stand a chance of producing a hero generation.

Education is an interesting case in point. Like advanced technology, according to modern mainstream paradigms, advanced education is an important key to a so-called “better” world and more “advanced” society. But let’s take a quick, but even closer look at the fruits, and exactly what kind of world that educational view has already created:

Today, despite previous abundance and unprecedented prosperity in this country, it is estimated that there are over 3.5 million homeless people in this country, including up to 1 million children. The “official” unemployment rate hovers right around 6.5 percent. If you count those who have quit looking for work or are underemployed, the number s over 10 percent, and in some places it’s much worse. But the reality is, almost no white Americans want to do any “real” work. The vast majority of them have been conditioned to believe that manual labor is simply beneath them. Yet, according to reports from one major mainstream media outlet, more than 20% of Americans are currently receiving government assistance, including food stamps. That’s part of the picture at the individual level.

Now, let’s look at the collective picture. Let’s face it: As a nation, we have allowed ourselves to become dependent. In terms of basic necessities, including food, water, clothing, shelter, energy, and so forth, at this point our nation is no longer self-sufficient. In many areas, we already consume far more than we produce. As a nation, this is the case both individually and collectively. Yet our productivity continues to wane. We spend more than we make. We import more than we export. We’re up to our ears in debt, both individually and as a country. Our current national debt is now more than $28 trillion dollars—that’s $28,000,000,000,000. It is now more than our total national GDP, and more than double what it was just 10 years ago.

Beyond economics, in terms of domestic trends, the long-term crime rate is rising, and the United States has more people incarcerated in prison than any nation in the world. We have a divorce rate of over 50 percent, and only about 65 percent of American children grow up with two parents (not necessarily their own) in the home, the lowest number in the Western world. The number of children born out of wedlock is growing, and the abortion rate is growing even faster. Of the women who do commit to motherhood, 30+ percent are raising children alone, either separated, divorced, or single. Clearly, the economic highs of recent decades have not made for bliss on the home front. In fact, sadly, even at the height of our most recent financial glory many Americans really weren’t very happy.

Despite our overall abundance and high standard of living, we have developed a serious national health crisis. Although the list of growing health problems is long – despite technological advances – among other things, obesity is reaching epidemic proportions. But, as a result of collusion and the lack of true market competition, health care costs in this country are skyrocketing and insurance premiums are out of reach for many families.

Between the health care and insurance industry conglomerates, Big Pharma, Big Oil, the military/industrial complex, and the legal profession, we can see the fruits of unbridled greed firsthand. Disputes and litigation are rampant across the board.

And, many Americans are both scared and angry for a myriad of reasons. But, today, for the first time in history, a majority of Americans fear that our country has crested—that our children and grandchildren will not be better off than previous generations have been. Perhaps worst of all, terror today also comes from the increasingly heavy-handed methods of our own governments. Consequently, many believe this country is now on the verge of bankruptcy—morally, financially, and productively. In addition to being heavily indebted and dependent, both individually and as a nation, many feel in their guts that even more is wrong. Yet surprisingly, many act like they have no idea how this happened. Everything was going along fantastically; we were at the height of our glory just a few short years ago, and then suddenly this—all these problems. We feel completely blindsided by this whole thing, and now we are suddenly in over our heads. Many leaders or experts of one sort or another have said, “There is no possible way we could have seen this coming.”

What is even sadder and scarier is that this short description is just starting to scratch the surface. Virtually all the issues we have listed here are only the superficial problems. They are really just symptoms of the real problems. This cursory list doesn’t even begin to talk about what is truly wrong with America today.

Obviously, this is not the entire picture, and is not intended to be, but what has just been described is part of the fruit of the contrasting English educational system. Other parts of the fruit of that educational system include wide-spread gender confusion, anxiety, stress, and fundamental, non-productive consumption orientation. Another part of that fruit includes the advanced technology vision advocated by Bill Gates and other wealthy elites, which will rely on digital (computerized) money, digital communications, and almost complete replacement of humans beings with computers, artificial intelligence, robots, and machines, including driverless cars and trucks, for almost all productive purposes, leaving consumption as essentially the only remaining function of human beings.

Despite the current and anticipated technological advancements of modern English culture and society, have these advancements improved fundamental human character? What is it about those realities that makes it so attractive and alluring? Why do so many Plain Folks seem so anxious to accelerate their own slide down the slippery slope of technological advancement? How does it improve human character? How does a consumption orientation help make us better people? Does it help make people more honest? More humble? More caring and compassionate? More cohesive? More self-sufficient? In terms of desirable core human traits and characteristics, what are the fruits of all the highly touted technological advancements of modern English culture and society? As Ben Franklin liked to say, the sting of any criticism comes primarily from the truth it contains.

By contrast, according to Christian writer, Suzanne Woods Fisher: “To mainstream Americans who place a premium on ‘higher’ education, an Amish education might raise an eyebrow. To our [English] way of thinking, it might seem limited and restrictive, with unmarried, teenage Amish girls—without college training—teaching in small, parochial schools. Amish schools use a limited amount of material in the classroom—they have created their own readers, workbooks, and texts. . . . and they read more than most Americans. They have a remarkable ability to learn new skills—even complicated ones—and value lifelong learning. Amish parents are heavily involved in their children’s education: they donate the land and building supplies for the school, visit regularly, attend school events, and take turns caring for the facilities.

But, as John Hostetler wrote in his book Amish Society, “Amish children often perform significantly higher in spelling, word usage, and arithmetic than a sample of pupils in public schools. . . this in spite of small libraries, limited equipment, the absence of radio and television, and teachers who lacked college training.”

And, according to Fisher, the icing on the cake should be the fact that “Amish children in the eighth grade gave a much more positive rating to their families than did non-Amish children.”

So, with its advanced education and technology, etc., exactly what is it about English culture and society that Plain Folks would actually want to assimilate? The consumptiveness? The laziness? The moral decay?

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 27th, 2021, 10:11 am A true dilemma. Better teach correct principles at home and correct school teachings every day. But, homeschooling is terrible. I have NEVER once seen a child homeschooled that can fit into society. If you think you have seen such, then I suppose you either ignore their awkward strangeness or don't care about being societal, which is playing even more into the "wear a mask", "don't be social", "hide from truth", etc....

School education is mostly to prepare a child to go into society. Having homeshooled church, homeschooled school, etc... is an injustice. Sorry for being frank. But, those are the types of children the go wild when finally let lose or worse and turn to more strange behaviors because they are so uncomfortable in public.

Feel free to disagree, I'm only 65, and have seen this for many, many years in several states across US.I've seen many children grow up. And I have personally seen no exceptions.

JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 1st, 2021, 12:00 pm I still wonder why less than a handful of people showed up to protest this--why didn't half the school show up to protest this? Why wasn't a petition with at least hundreds of signatures submitted?