Drip, drip, drip

[gkearney]

Church expands leadership roles for women in Europe

https://news-uk.churchofjesuschrist.org ... -in-europe

[WikiUp]

Only Europe?

[MMbelieve]

So they will mentor and attend leadership councils?

Basically they will serve a “helpmeet” position?

Good.

[NewEliza]

“ Area organisation advisers will give instruction to Church leaders and provide women’s perspectives at all levels of councils.”

??

I might be ostracized for this.... but women should never be counselors over men.

They can be over other women and over children, but I believe there is a biological and psychological reason men tend to take the lead.

In my experience, men don’t want to follow a strong woman leader, they want to follow a strong male.

I wonder why not in USA or Canada...

[nightlight]

Perhaps America has been a bad bad boy....

[Cruiserdude]

"Area organisation advisers will give instruction to Church leaders and provide women’s perspectives at all levels of councils. They will also represent the Primary, Young Women, and Relief Society organisations in their service."

Looks like it's to have women provide influence and input as advisers to the area presidencies.
I got no qualms with something like that.

Weird that it's not coming to North American areas.....

You think something similar is in the pipeline for N. American areas?

[InfoWarrior82]

Just inventing new roles to shoehorn women into perceived "important" roles. Many big corporations do this all the time.

[Cruiserdude]

Just inventing new roles to shoehorn women into perceived "important" roles. Many big corporations do this all the time.

Typical corporate bloat.......in the case of the businesses, that is

[tribrac]

Removed my snarky and unhelpful comment.

[Sarah]

“ Area organisation advisers will give instruction to Church leaders and provide women’s perspectives at all levels of councils.”

??

I might be ostracized for this.... but women should never be counselors over men.

They can be over other women and over children, but I believe there is a biological and psychological reason men tend to take the lead.

In my experience, men don’t want to follow a strong woman leader, they want to follow a strong male.

I wonder why not in USA or Canada...

I'm in the Primary Presidency, and am a councilor over men, but I agree that I see some that don't want a woman to lead them (or they just don't want to do their calling ) which I think is too bad, because some don't mind it at all and are so willing to do whatever you ask. I think we just have it so ingrained in us culturally and religiously. Only those who humble themselves as a little child will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and children follow women

[tribrac]

I tried, but it was still snarky.

[tribrac]

Only those who humble themselves as a little child will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and children follow women

That is one of those biblisms everyone says but no one actually believes. Look at LDS all the people we hold up as examples are strong men.

Heres a corollary. They say the children are the most important, but the most capable people are not called as primary teachers they are put in leadership. Primary gets the reactivation effort, the awkward guy, the broken home, or other projects.

[ajax]

Welcome to never ending meetings.

I’m a big advocate of women taking over that role.

“The least productive people are usually the ones who are most in favor of holding meetings.“ -Thomas Sowell

[Reluctant Watchman]

They can be over other women and over children, but I believe there is a biological and psychological reason men tend to take the lead.

Because we are often prideful, pigheaded, and arrogant? That's my guess.

[Sunnypaws]

My daughter is the swing shift lead in a large welding shop. She is fair, impartial, and a tiny little woman.
Her crew of all men, most of them felons, are respectful, responsible, and have no issues with her. I believe most of them would be appalled by anyone who took issue with her because she does the work right along side them.

So, yes women can lead men and even help them along on their second chance in life, as long as they do the work beside them...

[Robin Hood]

When I was on the stake high council, once a month we would meet for stake council. This is the stake equivalent of ward council, so the stake YW's, RS, and Primary presidents were in attendance.
I mean no disrespect when I say they were the most useless stake meetings I have ever attended. The three women completely dominated proceedings and just never shut up... and it's not as if they had anything helpful to say!

My experience in ward councils was very different. The women in attendance there were extremely helpful and had a lot of very good things to say.
I think the reason for this is that women tend to be very good when they are involved at the coal face, so to speak. They were intimately involved with those they served and clearly had a lot of invested time and effort in their callings. Their insights were based on real life situations and were relevant and effective.

I just think men are better at big picture stuff, and women are very good at detail.

[Sunnypaws]

Or perhaps the stake didn't pick the more humble women for the position. Maybe they picked the ones who were loud in complaints to begin with hoping to settle a problem that only gets worse with power.

[JSmith]

So, essentially they are regional women’s authorities

The article says specifically that they are to mentor congregational officers

A mentor by definition is someone who teaches or gives help and advice to a less experienced and often younger person. mentor. : to teach or give advice or guidance to (someone, such as a less experienced person or a child) : to act as a mentor for (someone).

The article also states that “Area organisation advisers will give instruction to Church leaders and provide women’s perspectives at all levels of councils. “

Noticed a term “give instruction” to church leaders. Meaning that they have authority to do so.

This is very interesting. Because the language employed in the article itself means that this is more than just simple advice and counsel.

[Durzan]

You can be a mentor without having any actual authority involved.

[Sunnypaws]

But a mentor by definition is wise and knowledgeable.

[Juliet]

I don't know. It kind of reminds me of meaningless government bureaucracy. It specifically says they "will give instruction to Church leaders" which means they are going to be in a top-down governing position. Is this some sort of new kind of snitching program?

I already have a very bad taste in my mouth about all these church councils. I have never been to them but I fear they are gossip fests. If there is a family in the ward that needs help, for heavens sakes talk to that family about what they need and then help them from there with respect to their privacy. If you are going to have a meeting and tell the rest of the ward council all their problems without them being there under the guise of "loving them"; well, I think that quickly becomes distasteful as the line between helping and gossiping is blurred.

When I was dealing with a personal issue, I mentioned it to my relief society president, and I find out that everyone and their dog now knew about it, including phone calls that were suggested to be made from the stake presidency level to the bishopric and then to my enemies; to let them know everything I had said. Not sure if such phone calls were made. But man, people are ripe for a story. I learned from then on keep your mouth shut don't tell your problems to anybody who is a member because it will go to the gossip calling tree.

Our ministering calls are just as bad. We get regular calls so we can give the latest gossip on our sisters. Nobody gets any help but everybody gets gossiped about. It's disgusting really. I have ministered to sisters who are severely in need and nothing is ever done to help them except gossip. Any suggestions, well; we can't do that. We can't do that. We can't do that. Besides, so and so shouldn't need help anyway, it's all their fault. Then three months later... So, how is so and so doing?

My conclusion: there can be no relief in organizations that corporatize their protocols from books and ledgers instead of allowing real people to come in and help each other. More and more these organizations, charities, churches, and medical facilities, are aiding in harming people, stealing from them, and limiting what they can do; rather than helping them.

[JSmith]

You can be a mentor without having any actual authority involved.

yes, but to give instruction requires a position of contextual authority...and they are to "give instruction" to church leaders

[Sarah]

Only those who humble themselves as a little child will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and children follow women

That is one of those biblisms everyone says but no one actually believes. Look at LDS all the people we hold up as examples are strong men.

Heres a corollary. They say the children are the most important, but the most capable people are not called as primary teachers they are put in leadership. Primary gets the reactivation effort, the awkward guy, the broken home, or other projects.

I agree that there seems to be this idea that the strongest most reliable people go to the youth and adults, and primary often gets those who aren't as enthusiastic. I've often wondered what would happen if we called the strongest people to primary and made that the number one priority. There's no easy answer. There simply is not enough people who really want to magnify their calling to be able to fill all the jobs, or people simply can't because of external challenges. Probably one reason we are simplifying and going more home centered. I think we need to cut down on youth activities as well. Every week seems unnecessary.

[Sarah]

When I was on the stake high council, once a month we would meet for stake council. This is the stake equivalent of ward council, so the stake YW's, RS, and Primary presidents were in attendance.
I mean no disrespect when I say they were the most useless stake meetings I have ever attended. The three women completely dominated proceedings and just never shut up... and it's not as if they had anything helpful to say!

My experience in ward councils was very different. The women in attendance there were extremely helpful and had a lot of very good things to say.
I think the reason for this is that women tend to be very good when they are involved at the coal face, so to speak. They were intimately involved with those they served and clearly had a lot of invested time and effort in their callings. Their insights were based on real life situations and were relevant and effective.

I just think men are better at big picture stuff, and women are very good at detail.

I am the big picture person and my husband tends to only focus on detail. My guess is that you simply got stuck with a few loud, opinionated women whose personality was more dominating.

[gkearney]

Primary President is far and away the most demanding calling in the church. You have children ranging in age from toddlers who do not yet speak all the way up to youth who might as well be teenagers. You have to run classes, you have to arrange music, you have to have activites which are not only suitible for both boys and girls but for this big are range as well. You have to keep track of a whole bunch of teaching materials, toys, books, you name it. Some of the kids can read, others can't.

You need your most capable and most organized members running primary. Relief Society is simple in comparison.