Shalom!

[KosherDad]

Shalom! Up front: I am not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am not Jewish. I read the Scriptures and do what it says.

My family and I do share the desire to follow the Commandments of God. When we moved to Utah about three years ago, we knew the vast majority of our neighbors would be members of the church. In order to fully understand where we would agree, I read the Book of Mormon, D&C, and the Pearl of Great Price. I attended our Ward for a little over a year and participated in everything we could until they shut down for COVID-19. I have attended General Conference twice and have paid close attention since we moved here.

I am deeply disturbed at the deviations from the Scriptures found in the Standard Works that many of the official positions of the church take. I am profoundly concerned that church has already declared that I am intentionally harming my neighbors because I do not wear a mask (https://coronavirus.utah.gov/faith-lead ... coverings/). I fully expect that the church will soon declare that I am intentionally harming my neighbors because I have not received a COVID-19 vaccination.

I look forward to connecting to others that share my concerns!

Blessings!

[Silver Pie]

Welcome. It sounds like you share similar concerns as many of us here.

[Robin Hood]

Shalom! Up front: I am not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am not Jewish. I read the Scriptures and do what it says.

My family and I do share the desire to follow the Commandments of God. When we moved to Utah about three years ago, we knew the vast majority of our neighbors would be members of the church. In order to fully understand where we would agree, I read the Book of Mormon, D&C, and the Pearl of Great Price. I attended our Ward for a little over a year and participated in everything we could until they shut down for COVID-19. I have attended General Conference twice and have paid close attention since we moved here.

I am deeply disturbed at the deviations from the Scriptures found in the Standard Works that many of the official positions of the church take. I am profoundly concerned that church has already declared that I am intentionally harming my neighbors because I do not wear a mask (https://coronavirus.utah.gov/faith-lead ... coverings/). I fully expect that the church will soon declare that I am intentionally harming my neighbors because I have not received a COVID-19 vaccination.

I look forward to connecting to others that share my concerns!

Blessings!

Welcome to the forum. I look forward to reading your comments and considering your contributions.
One question: What did you know of Mormonism before you moved to Utah?

[nightlight]

Shalom! Up front: I am not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am not Jewish. I read the Scriptures and do what it says.

My family and I do share the desire to follow the Commandments of God. When we moved to Utah about three years ago, we knew the vast majority of our neighbors would be members of the church. In order to fully understand where we would agree, I read the Book of Mormon, D&C, and the Pearl of Great Price. I attended our Ward for a little over a year and participated in everything we could until they shut down for COVID-19. I have attended General Conference twice and have paid close attention since we moved here.

I am deeply disturbed at the deviations from the Scriptures found in the Standard Works that many of the official positions of the church take. I am profoundly concerned that church has already declared that I am intentionally harming my neighbors because I do not wear a mask (https://coronavirus.utah.gov/faith-lead ... coverings/). I fully expect that the church will soon declare that I am intentionally harming my neighbors because I have not received a COVID-19 vaccination.

I look forward to connecting to others that share my concerns!

Blessings!

What do you think of the Book of Mormon?

[lundbaek]

Kosher Dad, what are the deviations from the Scriptures found in the Standard Works that many of the official positions of the church take that disturb you?

[BeNotDeceived]

OU is interesting in a couple of ways.

1) it’s near where TSM spoke of as an example of Compassion.

2) it’s logo is a circle and the radian is a #57 anomaly.

Ofttimes, it’s best to begin at the beginning, yet search engines show the latest stuff first. Here’s a list of posts about said anomaly that will get you near the beginning, then look for “chefs” as a good place to start, if you’re interested in how a fundamental constant relates to one eternal round. search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keyw ... &start=169

Maybe one day a search command will seek the 3rd from the end. Know the end from the beginning or something like that.

What a long strange trip it’s been and y’alls apart of the most bizarre forum type place the world has ever known, even if most are still trying to figure stuff out, but at least you have attained ultimate post rate unity. Many do, but most don’t and/or aren’t even aware such a thing is possible, so congrats on that, and hope to see more of the big OU.

[creator]

I am deeply disturbed at the deviations from the Scriptures found in the Standard Works that many of the official positions of the church take. I am profoundly concerned that church has already declared that I am intentionally harming my neighbors because I do not wear a mask (https://coronavirus.utah.gov/faith-lead ... coverings/). I fully expect that the church will soon declare that I am intentionally harming my neighbors because I have not received a COVID-19 vaccination.

There are many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that share your concerns, especially here on this forum.

[KosherDad]

Shalom! Up front: I am not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am not Jewish. I read the Scriptures and do what it says.

My family and I do share the desire to follow the Commandments of God. When we moved to Utah about three years ago, we knew the vast majority of our neighbors would be members of the church. In order to fully understand where we would agree, I read the Book of Mormon, D&C, and the Pearl of Great Price. I attended our Ward for a little over a year and participated in everything we could until they shut down for COVID-19. I have attended General Conference twice and have paid close attention since we moved here.

I am deeply disturbed at the deviations from the Scriptures found in the Standard Works that many of the official positions of the church take. I am profoundly concerned that church has already declared that I am intentionally harming my neighbors because I do not wear a mask (https://coronavirus.utah.gov/faith-lead ... coverings/). I fully expect that the church will soon declare that I am intentionally harming my neighbors because I have not received a COVID-19 vaccination.

I look forward to connecting to others that share my concerns!

Blessings!

Welcome to the forum. I look forward to reading your comments and considering your contributions.
One question: What did you know of Mormonism before you moved to Utah?

I knew that the sales pitch is that the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ. I thought I knew that the families in the church were large (we have seven children). Turns out that isn’t really a thing anymore as far as I can tell. Those are the highlights.

[KosherDad]

Shalom! Up front: I am not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am not Jewish. I read the Scriptures and do what it says.

My family and I do share the desire to follow the Commandments of God. When we moved to Utah about three years ago, we knew the vast majority of our neighbors would be members of the church. In order to fully understand where we would agree, I read the Book of Mormon, D&C, and the Pearl of Great Price. I attended our Ward for a little over a year and participated in everything we could until they shut down for COVID-19. I have attended General Conference twice and have paid close attention since we moved here.

I am deeply disturbed at the deviations from the Scriptures found in the Standard Works that many of the official positions of the church take. I am profoundly concerned that church has already declared that I am intentionally harming my neighbors because I do not wear a mask (https://coronavirus.utah.gov/faith-lead ... coverings/). I fully expect that the church will soon declare that I am intentionally harming my neighbors because I have not received a COVID-19 vaccination.

I look forward to connecting to others that share my concerns!

Blessings!

What do you think of the Book of Mormon?

That’s a long answer. Short answer: In my view, it passes the same test I apply to the New Testament. It cannot violate anything in the Torah or the Prophets. Because I do not think that it does, it implies it is inspired Word of God.

[KosherDad]

Kosher Dad, what are the deviations from the Scriptures found in the Standard Works that many of the official positions of the church take that disturb you?

The list seems to grow every day.

1. Moving the Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day. That is better than abolishing the Sabbath as the Catholic Church has done. However, every time when to keep the Sabbath is mentioned throughout ALL of the Standard Works, we are told it is on the 7th day. There are precisely zero references to moving it to the 1st day.

2. In his closing remarks of General Conference, April 2020 “Go Forward in Faith”, President Nelson Stated:

“In every country, this Church teaches its members to honor, obey, and sustain the law.”

In my view, that is in direct opposition to D&C 98:4-7 as well as other Scripture. That is a big deal.

3. Elder Randy D. Funk signed the joint statement of faith dated 24 June 2020 stating:

“We, the under-signed Faith Community Leaders, appeal to people of faith all over the state to wear masks and practice physical distancing, sacrificing a small measure of comfort for the sake of saving lives. We recall that the greatest commandment is to love God, and the second is like unto it, to love one’s neighbor as oneself. One cannot claim to love one’s neighbor while deliberately putting them at risk.”

This was reaffirmed by Elder Dale G. Renlund of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles on 7 December 2020 when he stated:

“The Savior taught that the second great commandment, after loving God, was ‘Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.’ As it relates to this pandemic, especially in temples, that means social distancing, wearing a mask and not gathering in large groups. These steps demonstrate our love for others and provide us a measure of protection. Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters.”

In my view, those statements invoke D&C 121:34-40

34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson—
36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.
38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.
39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.
40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.

How’s that for starters?

[Robin Hood]

Kosher Dad, what are the deviations from the Scriptures found in the Standard Works that many of the official positions of the church take that disturb you?

The list seems to grow every day.

1. Moving the Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day. That is better than abolishing the Sabbath as the Catholic Church has done. However, every time when to keep the Sabbath is mentioned throughout ALL of the Standard Works, we are told it is on the 7th day. There are precisely zero references to moving it to the 1st day.

2. In his closing remarks of General Conference, April 2020 “Go Forward in Faith”, President Nelson Stated:

“In every country, this Church teaches its members to honor, obey, and sustain the law.”

In my view, that is in direct opposition to D&C 98:4-7 as well as other Scripture. That is a big deal.

3. Elder Randy D. Funk signed the joint statement of faith dated 24 June 2020 stating:

“We, the under-signed Faith Community Leaders, appeal to people of faith all over the state to wear masks and practice physical distancing, sacrificing a small measure of comfort for the sake of saving lives. We recall that the greatest commandment is to love God, and the second is like unto it, to love one’s neighbor as oneself. One cannot claim to love one’s neighbor while deliberately putting them at risk.”

This was reaffirmed by Elder Dale G. Renlund of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles on 7 December 2020 when he stated:

“The Savior taught that the second great commandment, after loving God, was ‘Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.’ As it relates to this pandemic, especially in temples, that means social distancing, wearing a mask and not gathering in large groups. These steps demonstrate our love for others and provide us a measure of protection. Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters.”

In my view, those statements invoke D&C 121:34-40

34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson—
36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.
38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.
39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.
40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.

How’s that for starters?

Good point about the Sabbath. We don't observe the Sabbath as you correctly point out. We observe the Lord's Day, but conflate the two.
Mormons in Israel observe the 7th day, Mormons in the UAE observe Friday.
Personally, while the view that one day should be observed is better than no days, I believe we should observe the 7th day. Sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

I also agree with you about sustaining the law. We are only under obligation to sustain those laws that uphold constitutional principles.

Pandering to mask mandates and other covid related nonsense is, in my view, an embarrassment.

[InfoWarrior82]

Pandering to mask mandates and other covid related nonsense is, in my view, an embarrassment.

Not only embarrassing, but unrighteous. Any degree of unrighteousness and what happens to the priesthood authority of that man?

[BeNotDeceived]

This location may be a familiar one ...

search.php?keywords=38ii shows an interpretation.

viewtopic.php?p=1124195#p1124195 is something similar.

[KosherDad]

Kosher Dad, what are the deviations from the Scriptures found in the Standard Works that many of the official positions of the church take that disturb you?

Good point about the Sabbath. We don't observe the Sabbath as you correctly point out. We observe the Lord's Day, but conflate the two.
Mormons in Israel observe the 7th day, Mormons in the UAE observe Friday.
Personally, while the view that one day should be observed is better than no days, I believe we should observe the 7th day. Sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

I also agree with you about sustaining the law. We are only under obligation to sustain those laws that uphold constitutional principles.

Pandering to mask mandates and other covid related nonsense is, in my view, an embarrassment.

Actually, that is not correct. The official position of the church is that the Sabbath was moved from the 7th day to the 1st day by the original Apostles. It is referred to as the Lord’s day in D&C. However, without the Catholic Church’s definition of the “Lord’s Day”, one would have to assume that the Lord’s day is referring to the Sabbath.

So, while I would argue that changing a Commandment of God is not allowed or ok, it is much better to keep calling it the Sabbath and at least honoring the Commandment to work six day and rest on the seventh. In the Catholic Church’s explanation of the “Lord’s Day”, they demand their membership work on the Sabbath and instead honor the “Lord’s Day”.