LDS Freedom Forum

Do you think 20 families could survive on 50 acres? That means about 100 people. I have not really done the figures on all that. I would think it would atleast take 500 acres for that.

Living on the right piece of Land, I believe its possible. There may be members who already own the Land and are struggling just like us to survive. There is a way, It might not be the way you are thinking but, there is a way.

It is not a bad idea. I am going to think about it for a while. I would think a little bigger though.

I would figure something like this into it for one of the first things. Something more along the lines of 5,000 sq ft.

http://wichitafalls.craigslist.org/grd/1018520151.html

Building materials are cheap if a bunch of people are able to take apart old buildings and have a place to store materials. You can also order by the trucks and get better deals. Some people just want buildings removed from their property. This is where someone that knew construction would come in handy.

I was thinking of conex containers a while back too. Maybe even enough of them to line a perimeter and also good for storage. They might be really cheap soon.

An acre of potatoes can feed a family of 5 for a year. But that would be no way to live. Looking for land myself for the future. ND has cheap land, but it is freezing up there. There is also some land in Box Elder 160k for 1,200 acres, unirrigated where if you get enough snowfall you could dry farm wheat and be pretty wealthy. But would have to look at the terrain, soil and snowfall to see if it was feasible.

You are right though, good land is expensive these days.

ShawnC wrote:

Col. Flagg wrote:However, the Lord has since told us that it is not to be practiced ever again.

When did the Lord say this?


The Lord gives no command that is not for our good and does not have a spiritual connatation to it as well.

Col.?

I think people are thinking more in terms of end of days survival, or atleast I am. How are you going to hold 1,200 acres? You are going to work all day in the fields and gaurd your property 24 7?

I think you would have to be in a group of atleast 1000 aswell.

I like the idea of having my own place and a farm, but I don't think anyone will be able to do that.

Not trying to be gloomy, but Something big is going on. Something real big. There is a lot of "movement". Hopefully that is all it is.

ShawnC wrote:

ShawnC wrote:

Col. Flagg wrote:However, the Lord has since told us that it is not to be practiced ever again.

When did the Lord say this?


The Lord gives no command that is not for our good and does not have a spiritual connatation to it as well.

Col.?

Okay, I'm not sure about this response but I thought I'd play you-know-who's advocate on Col. Flagg's behalf... if nothing else it's a good academic exercise

We warn you against the so-called polygamy cults which would lead you astray. Remember the Lord brought an end to this program many decades ago through a prophet who proclaimed the revelation to the world. People are abroad who will deceive you and bring you much sorrow and remorse. Have nothing to do with those who would lead you astray. It is wrong and sinful to ignore the Lord when he speaks. He has spoken—strongly and conclusively. President Spencer W. Kimball GC October 1984

We say again: We members of the Church marry. All normal people should marry. (There could be a few exceptions.) All normal married couples should become parents. We remember the scripture which says:

“Whoso forbiddeth to marry is not ordained of God, for marriage is ordained of God unto man.

“Wherefore, it is lawful that he should have one wife, and they twain shall be one flesh, and all this that the earth might answer the end of its creation.” (D&C 49:15–16.) ibid.

May we repeat: Sex perversions of men and women can never replenish the earth and are definitely sin without excuse, and rationalizations are very weak; God will not tolerate it. ibid.

The last quote addresses the speculation many people like to do regarding Jacob 2... the 'what if the Lord wanted to raise up seed' line of thinking.

What do you think? Is it possible to infer that polygamy is done away?

ShawnC wrote:

ShawnC wrote:

Col. Flagg wrote:However, the Lord has since told us that it is not to be practiced ever again.

When did the Lord say this?


The Lord gives no command that is not for our good and does not have a spiritual connatation to it as well.

Col.?

Col. Flagg,

I would apprieciate it if you could back this quote up? If it was just an emotional outburst that is OK, but if it has substance I would like to know.

Shawn

if 250 people/families came up with an average of 5,000 each that would be 1.25 million. Something could be done with that.


That is just a Waco waiting to happen though.

I am not really into the whole community idea. I get a sinking feeling every time it is brought up. I like my privacy very much. And I can't say that I would be entirely interested in living so close to others. You also would have to screen your neighbors, even then you are bound to get a few bad apples. Its hard enough living with a spouse, imagine what it would be like living with 10 more. No thank you.

I can see why it would be beneficial though.

I just plan to save up my pennies, build a modest house, find some modest land, enough for my own family and perhaps have a few jobs that I have discussed in other threads. Now we just need several more turkey collapses in Sanpete so land prices will sink. Even though I would prefer Summit County to be honest. With all the wealthy liberals, you would always have a market for free range chickens and organic produce. Even though I have argued against organic with other forums members because I am a jerk.

One thought though, it would be interesting to farm the old fashion way. Hook up a plow to a mule and spend a few weeks plowing your field. Hand seed 50 acres... On second thought, A tractor and some attachments really is a nice way to go if you can store plenty of diesel.

I am not really into the whole community idea. I get a sinking feeling every time it is brought up. I like my privacy very much. And I can't say that I would be entirely interested in living so close to others. You also would have to screen your neighbors, even then you are bound to get a few bad apples. Its hard enough living with a spouse, imagine what it would be like living with 10 more. No thank you.

I can see why it would be beneficial though.

I just plan to save up my pennies, build a modest house, find some modest land, enough for my own family and perhaps have a few jobs that I have discussed in other threads. Now we just need several more turkey collapses in Sanpete so land prices will sink. Even though I would prefer Summit County to be honest. With all the wealthy liberals, you would always have a market for free range chickens and organic produce. Even though I have argued against organic with other forums members because I am a jerk.

One thought though, it would be interesting to farm the old fashion way. Hook up a plow to a mule and spend a few weeks plowing your field. Hand seed 50 acres... On second thought, A tractor and some attachments really is a nice way to go if you can store plenty of diesel.

I like my privacy as well, but it is more likely that people will be stuck in more of a communal setting in the future.

Just as long as you don't expect the people in a communal setting to help you out or protect you when gangs of robbers plunder your land and try to kill you, you should be alright. Well, as alright as one can be while being hacked to death by machete carrying degenerettes.

I think I would rather be in a community where I know atleast 10% of the population will have my back and I theirs. Unless god will grow me some super human abilities and eyes in the back of my head and sides, I think I would stick with a community idea. I apparently don't have the faith that god will send angels to protect every time something happens, or spirit me away like he did Enoch (many of you believe this). I also do not think that a large majority of priesthood holders will be able to move mountains like they claim they will be able to do. Look at the Nephites.

Even if the church has an impressive military, I am sure that the leaders will call people in to a certain zone of protection and people will still be in communities. People that hold on to their land, ranches, and possessions will be resented an boycotted from all goods and services by the communities. That means no doctors, militia protection, construstion, education, and everything else that specialists in a community provide. People that think they will make a rich living from trade by those that are living the law of Concecration are sadly mistaken in my opinion. I just learned what that law means and can see it is perhaps the only option of survival if all of the other horrible revelations are true. So we could all be nieghbors. I get up at 5 every morning and beat on a punching bag for about 15 minutes. It is loud. I like my eggs sunny side up if you wake up in time. I sleep walk sometimes while wistleing Dixie and I am usually naked when this happens. I use other peoples toothbrushes if I don't have mine and will steel clean socks. I hope we are all right next door to eachother, because we are going to share everything you got.

And I usually only sleep 3 to 4 hours a night with a big 12 hour crash on sat or sunday. Sometimes I just pace up and down the house or outside for an hour or 2. Really, I just walk back and forth and around with my arms folded sometimes. I know everyone will love having me around.

Col. Flagg wrote: I also don't think he would instruct the male Saints to take more wives... only that from now on, having more than one wife was OK. However, having said that... this will never happen anyway because plural marriage is not part of the plan of salvation. IMO, polygamy has always been an excuse for men to satisfy their sick, twisted sexual appetites... nothing more.

Not to pick on you Col., but the Lord has commanded plural marriage on numerous occasions. It serves a purpose and is eternal in nature. In Jacob he says it's an abomination UNLESS he commands it. What do we know about His commands? D&C 29:35 for my commandments are spiritual; they are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual. If God makes a command, we better understand that it's an eternal principle. Thus while not fully practiced now, nor allowed to be practiced by all, polygamy is an eternal principle.

I opened a topic on Plural marriage, Now please don't discuss plural marriage here thanks.

How are we going to be able to return to the New Jeruselem? How will it play out and how will the Law of Consecration come into play? Any thoughts?

I certainly don't have any kind of an educated answer. What I do know is that anyone who has made temple covenants is under obligation to share all. Lately I've tried to take opportunities to teach my children about the law of consecration and how we should be looking for ways now to share willingly, be it our food storage, our talents, our lawn mower, our muscles to help someone move, whatever.

I have no idea what the future holds exactly, or what I'll be called on to do. My only hope is that I'm in a position to be a giver more than a taker through my preparation efforts. I can't imagine the shame I would face to know I could have been preparing but didn't, and now must be at the mercy of those who were faithfully preparing. Having said that, I also hope that I never judge anyone that I need to share with. We can start having that Christlike attitude whenever we're asked to share our talents, time, money or anything to strengthen the church, our neighbors, etc.

It was stated in the revelation that none was exempt from the law of consecration, "who belong to the church of the living God. Neither the bishop, neither the agent who keepeth the Lord's storehouse, neither he who is appointed in a stewardship over temporal things." We learn from this and other revelations that all who went up, or who contemplated going up, to Zion, were bound by the law of consecration by which Zion was to be built. They were also commanded to be equal in temporal things, and not enter into the covenants grudgingly. To be equal did not mean that all should have the same amount of food, but each should have according to his needs. For instance, a man would receive in proportion to the number in his family, not according to the nature of his work. He was to have, "for food and for raiment; for an inheritance; for houses and for lands, in whatsoever circumstances, I the Lord, shall place them, and whithersoever I, the Lord, shall send them."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation, Vol 2, pgs 39-40

Yet we find in the Church today after all these years, and the severe experiences of the past which brought so much pain and sorrow upon our people, that we still have a great many who have made the most solemn covenants in sacred places, and then have deliberately violated them. These will also receive the wrath of an offended Father, and there awaits them the reward of the transgressor—"a very sore and grievous curse." All such will have to be removed from the Father's kingdom before the law of consecration can be established
Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation, Vol 3., pg 34

Then again, we have those among us who are hoping for the coming of the law of consecration thinking that in that day they are going to profit by the equalizing of the wealth of other members of the Church. It is definitely true, however, that all those who will not obey the law of tithing, will not be entitled to enter into the covenants of consecration, but when the day comes for the establishing of Zion and the redemption of the earth, such people will find themselves removed.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation, Vol 3, pg 120

Consecration of PropertyBrother Edward Partridge:

Sir:—I proceed to answer your questions, concerning the consecration of property:—First, it is not right to condescend to very great particulars in taking inventories. The fact is this, a man is bound by the law of the Church, to consecrate to the bishop, before he can be considered a legal heir to the kingdom of Zion; and this, too, without constraint; and unless he does this, he cannot be acknowledged before the Lord on the Church Book; therefore, to condescend to particulars, I will tell you that every man must be his own judge how much he should receive and how much he should suffer to remain in the hands of the bishop. I speak of those who consecrate more than they need for the support of themselves and their families.The matter of consecration must be done by the mutual consent of both parties; for to give the bishop power to say how much every man shall have, and he be obliged to comply with the bishop's judgment, is giving to the bishop more power than a king has; and, upon the other hand, to let every man say how much he needs, and the bishop be obliged to comply with his judgment, is to throw Zion into confusion, and make a slave of the bishop. The fact is, there must be a balance or equilibrium of power, between the bishop and the people, and thus harmony and good will may be preserved among you.Therefore, those persons consecrating property to the bishop in Zion, and then receiving an inheritance back, must reasonably show to the bishop that they need as much as they claim. But in case the two parties cannot come to a mutual agreement, the bishop is to have nothing to do about receiving such consecrations; and the case must be laid before a council of twelve high priests, the bishop not being one of the council, but he is to lay the case before them. (HC 1:364-65.)

SECTION 85
Revelation through Joseph Smith, Kirtland, Ohio, November 27, 1832. History of the Church 1:298-99.

1 It is the duty of the Lord's clerk, whom he has appointed, to keep a history, and a general church record of all things that transpire in Zion, and of all those who consecrate properties, and receive inheritances legally from the bishop;

2 And also their manner of life, their faith, and works; and also of the apostates who apostatize after receiving their inheritances.

3 It is contrary to the will and commandment of God that those who receive not their inheritance by consecration, agreeable to his law, which he has given, that he may tithe his people, to prepare them against the day of vengeance and burning, should have their names enrolled with the people of God.

4 Neither is their genealogy to be kept, or to be had where it may be found on any of the records or history of the church.

5 Their names shall not be found, neither the names of the fathers, nor the names of the children written in the book of the law of God, saith the Lord of Hosts.

My personal take on the Law of Consecration is: That it will be one of the major sifting machines of modern days. This will be the straw that breaks the camels back for all of those who do not pay an honest tithing. When they do not pay an honest tithing, it will be almost impossible for them to live the law of consecration. If they do not pay an honest tithing, they will not be allowed to live the law of consecration. If they do not live the law of consecration, they will be removed from the church. If they do not pay an honest tithe they will be burned at the coming of the Lord.

Gman007 wrote:My personal views - avoid the big cities like the plague! Of course, all else fails, follow the river!

True true.