About the Amish -- in case anyone is interested in learning/understanding more about them

[tmac]

From time to time over the years I have posted stuff on here about the Amish, including something within the past year. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55077&p=1031742&hil ... h#p1031742
But it never seems to garner much interest.

Although I have had a long-term fascination with them, and have long-since concluded that in terms of making sincere efforts to live their religion, etc., they have done much more with much less "revelation" from God than the LDS Church and its members have, that is not to say that the Amish don't have their issues, including the ones highlighted in what I am about to share. But over the course of the past year or so, as I have had a lot more dealings in those circles and have developed a number of new relationships with Amish folks from Pennsylvania and Ohio, to Colorado and Montana, it has been both a very interesting and uplifting experience. In the process, I have definitely developed a preference for dealing with our Amish brothers and sisters, who I have found to be much more positive and straight-forward, without all the drama and hidden agendas, etc.

Anyway, just this week, as I was talking to some of my "English" friends in Holmes County, Ohio, which now has the largest concentration of Amish anywhere in the world, they told me about a new documentary video series about the Amish called Breaking the Silence. I have now watched the first two episodes, and have found them to be very informative, respectful, candid, and well-done. While they are certainly exposing some of the issues -- ugly underbelly, if you will -- of the Amish approach, as former members, unlike many (and a growing number of) ex-Mormons they make a very diligent attempt to do it very respectfully. I am sharing a link to the Youtube version of the first episode, in case anyone is interested.

https://youtu.be/aaHIEZkeTF4

[FoundMyEden]

Well done. I see and hear the claims from ex-members of Apostolics, Amish, and Mormons as similar. The more staunch the view of a member the less flexibilty when questions arise and the harder the fall. But this seems also to be argued the less commitment, the sandier the foundation, the easier the falling away.

The ordinances between the groups are similar, the experiences are similar, and the fears that drive them are the same. I think one of the reasons that these particular Amish families that have left aren't doing what many of the ex-mormon folks are doing (some apostolics are) probably because they have been taught to keep their emotions under control. Not sure, but they seem to have a good grasp of burying their sword and allowing God to fight their fights. I believe they are in tune to the spirit guiding them in respect and love for their elders...still loving their family and mother/father.

I have seen other documentaries that have been in good taste as well. Maybe one day we will see those who have left the COJCOLDS put out one in good taste also.

Thanks for sharing. I really enjoy my Amish neighbors.

[tmac]

I think one of the reasons that these particular Amish families that have left aren't doing what many of the ex-mormon folks are doing (some apostolics are) probably because they have been taught to keep their emotions under control. Not sure, but they seem to have a good grasp of burying their sword and allowing God to fight their fights. I believe they are in tune to the spirit guiding them in respect and love for their elders...still loving their family and mother/father.

Yes, it's interesting. I'm sill a member in good standing of the COJCLDS (that's a mouth/fingerful), but I'm a lot more jaded about things than they seem to be, despite their having been completely thrown out for such flimsy and spurious reasons. I can't help but admire and respect everything about how they have handled their experience(s), and their approach to the documentary, including pretty decent substantive production quality under the circumstances.

[FoundMyEden]

I think one of the reasons that these particular Amish families that have left aren't doing what many of the ex-mormon folks are doing (some apostolics are) probably because they have been taught to keep their emotions under control. Not sure, but they seem to have a good grasp of burying their sword and allowing God to fight their fights. I believe they are in tune to the spirit guiding them in respect and love for their elders...still loving their family and mother/father.

Yes, it's interesting. I'm sill a member in good standing of the COJCLDS (that's a mouth/fingerful), but I'm a lot more jaded about things than they are, despite their having been completely thrown out for such flimsy and spurious reasons. I can't help but admire and respect everything about how they have handled their experience(s), and their approach to the documentary, including pretty decent substantive production quality under the circumstances.

My apologies if it sounded like I was assuming you were not in good standing with the COJCOLDS. This just makes one pause and think about the real journey that we are all on and the similarities in many denominations that cause the works, or lack thereof, that divide us. In all, I think those that seek God with real intent, He will be merciful with in all our circumstances. Wasn't that the reason Joseph sought out to have that line of communication restored with the Father? The waters will always be muddied but the line of communication with should always remain open. Someone may correct me, I am learning just like everyone else who has that desire but I believe that is the purpose of what JS was trying to restore.

[tmac]

FME, I assume you're aquainted -- perhaps well-acquainted -- with the story of the three Amish families in Danville Ohio who joined the LDS church. Their experience is now well-documented in one or more videos of their own. A year or so ago, I met and visited with the Weavers and Troyers following a sacrament meeting in their new ward in Ohio, that I attended with a cousin of mine, who lives there, and is well-acquainted with them.

What is interesting about them is that although they became converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and got baptized, they had no desire to leave the Amish Church, and certainly not the Amis community and culture. They fully intended to try to do both. They had no desire to turn their backs on their culture, their families, and their upbringing. In fact, in Raymond Weaver's business, he would probably take a huge hit if he decided to go with the "Mormon" look instead of his natural Amish look. But they had little choice, because they too were kicked out.

And if I don't miss my guess, the COJCLDS would do something similar if someone attempted to do the same thing -- tried to bridge both faiths and/or cultures. In my case, I can see that the principles and truths of the restored gospel may have something to offer the Amish, but I don't really see how modern Mormon culture has much of true substance to offer them.

[FoundMyEden]

FME, I assume you're aquainted -- perhaps well-acquainted -- with the story of the three Amish families in Danville Ohio who joined the LDS church. Their experience is now well-documented in one or more videos of their own. A year or so ago, I met and visited with the Weavers and Troyers following a sacrament meeting in their new ward in Ohio, that I attended with a cousin of mine, who lives there, and is well-acquainted with them.

What is interesting about them is that although they became converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and got baptized, they had no desire to leave the Amish Church, and certainly not the Amis community and culture. They fully intended to try to do both. They had no desire to turn their backs on their culture, their families, and their upbringing. In fact, in Raymond Weaver's business, he would probably take a huge hit if he decided to go with the "Mormon" look instead of his natural Amish look. But they had little choice, because they too were kicked out.

And if I don't miss my guess, the COJCLDS would do something similar if someone attempted to do the same thing -- tried to bridge both faiths and/or cultures. In my case, I can see that the principles and truths of the restored gospel may have something to offer the Amish, but I don't really see how modern Mormon culture has much of true substance to offer them.

Actually, I am not well aquainted with the families that became converted to the church, only in skimming through a deseret catalog a few years back that I realized that there were some Amish families that were producing products being sold through the catalog and a small feature article mentioning their conversion to the gospel. I obviously didn't think that would fair well in their previous community, but not until I moved to Montana did I realize the splits happening between the Amish and many of them are off on their own with just the lifestyle keeping them assimilated, or so it seems. I am not surprised by their conversion although, many of them do not lose their faith in our Saviour.

Yes, I see the modern lds culture would not have much of true substance to offer. This I agree with. In fact I was just discussing with w another Christian friend how preservation of some of their traditions is becoming popular amongst those looking to come out of the world, even prepsteaders in some way or another. I suppose God preserves what and where he will preserve, interesting enough. If a Latter-day Saint tried to bridge a faith and a culture, even though that's what Jesus taught to do, it doesn't usually fair well in the end. I grew up not understanding Utah Mormon culture and the first time I experienced it I thought I was on another planet. Humorously.

[larsenb]

. . . . In my case, I can see that the principles and truths of the restored gospel may have something to offer the Amish, but I don't really see how modern Mormon culture has much of true substance to offer them.

But we have a strong history of 'communal' and co-op communities, at least attempted during JS's time and successfully during BY and John Taylor's time.

My sense is (attested to by a son that studied the situation in a UofU history program) is that these largely failed during the Federal smack-down of the Church during the fight over polygamy, where the Feds took direct action to undermine them.

If we'd been successful in keeping these things going, we would have a LOT more to share with them.

My wish would be to see Amish/Mennonite converts re-seed or own co-op/communal efforts.

[Thinker]

Incredible team work - Amish moving a HOUSE down the street, this way and that!
https://youtu.be/Tc6IT5L3ZSk
I probably won’t ever join the Amish, but I appreciate what can be learned from them.

In our church, I’ve often appreciated how after an activity, without anyone telling anyone too, most people just start cleaning up, putting up chairs, tables etc.

[Niemand]

As I've said elsewhere the Amish are the canary in the coal mine as far as human rights go. Any government that goes after them has major issues.

[Cruiserdude]

IMG_20221011_184628.jpg (277 KiB) Viewed 328 times

[FoundMyEden]

IMG_20221011_184628.jpg

Hahaha!

[FoundMyEden]

Funny thing happened this year in my neighborhood with the Amish. They’re apparently converting to Beachy Amish and/or Mennonite. An Amish family just sold their farm and moved back to an area where they are not converting to Mennonite, because the Amish family was being shunned by the Mennonite converts. I guess no one is immune.
Just when you think you have things figured out..

[Niemand]

Funny thing happened this year in my neighborhood with the Amish. They’re apparently converting to Beachy Amish and/or Mennonite. An Amish family just sold their farm and moved back to an area where they are not converting to Mennonite, because the Amish family was being shunned by the Mennonite converts. I guess no one is immune.
Just when you think you have things figured out..

As old established communities I'm sure they have all the usual trouble with family feuds, gossips, rivalries etc. I have a great respect for them though and I think they are more together than many other people.

[FoundMyEden]

Funny thing happened this year in my neighborhood with the Amish. They’re apparently converting to Beachy Amish and/or Mennonite. An Amish family just sold their farm and moved back to an area where they are not converting to Mennonite, because the Amish family was being shunned by the Mennonite converts. I guess no one is immune.
Just when you think you have things figured out..

As old established communities I'm sure they have all the usual trouble with family feuds, gossips, rivalries etc. I have a great respect for them though and I think they are more together than many other people.

Yes. They are normal people struggling to carry their cross and follow Jesus just like we all are. I have seen them value community and have stronger values than what it seems we have these days and many English wanting to come out of the world respect them for standing by their convictions, all with a different depth of strength. I appreciate their contributions to any community in general.

[hyloglyph]

Ability to work and make a living as a community outside of modern conveniences by living close to the land and doing traditional type work is good and praiseworthy and I’d even say borderline Holy but it doesn’t mean that by doing that that you know anything about the cankerous effects of trying to exert coercion censorship or control over others. That type of thing is a mind virus that covers the whole earth.

Living in 21st century North America outside of electric life might actually make a person more prone to sins that are probably far worse than driving a truck and much more unchristian too.

Some of the most long term harmful things you can possibly do are totally legal and even encouraged in every single community and society currently on earth I’d say. Even this forum would be guilty though I don’t really think of online stuff as being a real community.

I just bought an item from the Amish though and I plan to pass it on to one of my kids after I use it for a long while. They are badass workers and solid craftsmen for the most part I do know that. And they have a ton of other good qualities I’m sure too. I just don’t know them well enough to say. Probably would classify as good stewards of land for the most part. I know they like killing prairie dogs. And they are frugal. And they have many other good qualities too I’d guess.

But our grandpas dads mostly all lived like that too. So without good Christian principles, a lot of which were re emphasized by Joseph Smith, then to live as the Amish would be just going back in time it seems like. Which would be fun and better and more practical in a lot of ways. But doesn’t necessarily mean closer to God.