LDS Freedom Forum

TheDuke wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 6:06 pm Do do not feel that bishop following a SP rule for masks is any kind of evil. I don't think the SP is evil either, nor the area leader passing down the decree. It does make the sheep feel more secure.

I personally will not attend and wear a mask, neither will I attend and fill out a Covid contact tracing form for the government. I do feel wearing a mask is like giving in to powerful people that lie. But, I sometimes wear a mask (when required) to allow my fellowmen feel comfortable in their stupidity. It is surely a dilemma for me. I'm not sure I will look back in 20 years and think mask wearing was a minor request but more one of many small steps to rob me of my freedom.

I miss church, but not enough to comply, I guess. I have chosen to wait out this stupidity. I fear for my family, I must be prideful as I feel I can ride this out), but I'm worried for my family, that hasn't always been as strong as me. Maybe God will tell me to go and wear the mask some day. I hope not.

I do see your point. A year or two ago I would have rather died than said a bad word about the church.

Now, I see people that I previously thought were sane, following the deep state and doing it in the name of Christ.

Certainly, people are allowed their own opinions. Often, in Elders Quorum a discussion may change the beliefs of someone after hearing various points of view. When this happens, the discussion was of value. Truth was brought to light. Everyone is happy. But when an obvious lie of enormous magnitude, like the efficacy of a mask, is brought for discussion, the Satanist will not listen to reason, facts, common sense, or even scientific proof. The Satanist pays tribute to the deep state, WHO, King Fauci, and other liars. A reasonable person would at least investigate the matter. But a Satanist is firm in not having any part of truth that changes his previous thought.

Some say, "Well it is just a mask. What is the big deal?" The big deal is that it is symbolic of something very evil. It is more harmful than good. It is a lie. It is mandated and not voluntary. Some equate it with Godliness which perverts what Godliness actually is.

The funny thing, maybe not so funny, is that the church is actually the one that suffers most from these ridiculous mandates. Close your temple. Close your church. No singing. Wear the sign of Satan or suffer the consequences.

There is no pandemic. The whole thing is a lie. The death toll is about the same as the flu if you don't count automobile accidents as covid deaths. And the actual flu numbers went to zero. That must mean that covid cured the flu.

So we have a division between good and evil. Some call it the wheat and tares. Prophets have declared that socialism is of the devil. The church now praises socialism. Many of the leaders are far left as is KSL. Here comes a fake planned-emic. The deep state wants total control. The church not only complies, but embraces it. Now the mask thing which many reputable doctors have come forward against even at the risk of being cancelled. There is not a single piece of evidence that proves a mask prevents covid. In fact, 2 GAs got covid while wearing a mask. The science is overwhelming against the mask. The reason so many people think that masks work is because people that they trust have told them so. Well how about telling the truth?

When a Bishop tells the mask lie, many people believe the lie. If the dumb shites need a lie to make them feel comfortable, maybe they shouldn't have stopped sucking their thumb. Is telling a lie justified in order to keep people from sucking their thumb? Especially when telling the lie is exactly what Satan wants?

Is it okay to promote Satan just because the Bishop is in a position to fool people? The last place I expect to be lied to is at church. Talk about abuse of authority.

Sarah wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 8:45 pm

Fred wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 1:16 pm There is no legitimate argument that can be made for wearing a mask to prevent getting covid. Two General Authorities lied about mask effectiveness and got covid. This is not a roll of the dice where there might be a case for a healthy person to wear a mask. There is no such reason.

So we can with 100% accuracy declare anyone that suggests masks prevent getting covid to be a liar. There is a commandment against that.

We would not trust a doctor that was too stupid to read the label that says not effective against covid-19.

So once a Bishop is a known liar, perhaps possessed by an evil spirit, maybe even a dedicated Disciple of Satan that infiltrated the church, perhaps a member of the deep state whose intentions are to destroy the Kingdom of God, or any other reason that causes him to lie, we kindly inform him that he is not telling the truth and he must stop immediately, if not sooner. If he recognizes his sin against mankind and ceases to lie, then we forgive and move on.

But if he does not, or is being blackmailed by his superiors that won't give him a million dollar retirement package if he does not follow their directions, then the evil begins to come forth. If he is not being blackmailed and is simply too stupid to believe the manufacturer of the masks that they are not effective, then he has no business being in charge of a ward. That would make him a mentally defective imbecile worthy of a straight jacket.

When politicians in Washington DC lie or when the media lie, we do not have much control over that other than to say the world has gone to hell and we need to do something at the local level. The Bishop is at the local level.

If a person is asked to speak at Sacrament Meeting, he/she may say that the original topic has changed and we will be discussing the efficacy of masks. If the Bishop censors the speaker for telling the truth, then a larger truth is shown. Once the truth is out, the lemmings will be enlightened and no longer follow Satan.

We have an obligation to not allow bullshite to enter our brain, especially at church. If the Bishop acknowledges that truth will not be tolerated in Sacrament Meeting, well, then, there you have it.

This war is between good and evil and some of us are helping evil to win.

Maybe you are the one who is "lying." Maybe wearing masks actually does slow the spread of germs

I considered it. But considering the material the masks are made of and the size of the virus, there can not be a legitimate argument. Now a sick person can prevent hacking a big goober on someone by wearing a mask. So masks do have their place. Just not on the face of anyone that is healthy, unless like a surgeon in order to stop him from spitting into someone's gut.

That leads to freedom of choice (God's way) as opposed to a mandate (Satan's way). Clearly, wearing a mask does not prevent covid. Two GAs are testimony to that.

Fred wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 8:57 pm

Sarah wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 8:45 pm

Fred wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 1:16 pm There is no legitimate argument that can be made for wearing a mask to prevent getting covid. Two General Authorities lied about mask effectiveness and got covid. This is not a roll of the dice where there might be a case for a healthy person to wear a mask. There is no such reason.

So we can with 100% accuracy declare anyone that suggests masks prevent getting covid to be a liar. There is a commandment against that.

We would not trust a doctor that was too stupid to read the label that says not effective against covid-19.

So once a Bishop is a known liar, perhaps possessed by an evil spirit, maybe even a dedicated Disciple of Satan that infiltrated the church, perhaps a member of the deep state whose intentions are to destroy the Kingdom of God, or any other reason that causes him to lie, we kindly inform him that he is not telling the truth and he must stop immediately, if not sooner. If he recognizes his sin against mankind and ceases to lie, then we forgive and move on.

But if he does not, or is being blackmailed by his superiors that won't give him a million dollar retirement package if he does not follow their directions, then the evil begins to come forth. If he is not being blackmailed and is simply too stupid to believe the manufacturer of the masks that they are not effective, then he has no business being in charge of a ward. That would make him a mentally defective imbecile worthy of a straight jacket.

When politicians in Washington DC lie or when the media lie, we do not have much control over that other than to say the world has gone to hell and we need to do something at the local level. The Bishop is at the local level.

If a person is asked to speak at Sacrament Meeting, he/she may say that the original topic has changed and we will be discussing the efficacy of masks. If the Bishop censors the speaker for telling the truth, then a larger truth is shown. Once the truth is out, the lemmings will be enlightened and no longer follow Satan.

We have an obligation to not allow bullshite to enter our brain, especially at church. If the Bishop acknowledges that truth will not be tolerated in Sacrament Meeting, well, then, there you have it.

This war is between good and evil and some of us are helping evil to win.

Maybe you are the one who is "lying." Maybe wearing masks actually does slow the spread of germs

I considered it. But considering the material the masks are made of and the size of the virus, there can not be a legitimate argument. Now a sick person can prevent hacking a big goober on someone by wearing a mask. So masks do have their place. Just not on the face of anyone that is healthy, unless like a surgeon in order to stop him from spitting into someone's gut.

That leads to freedom of choice (God's way) as opposed to a mandate (Satan's way). Clearly, wearing a mask does not prevent covid. Two GAs are testimony to that.

Well that means that the word of wisdom is Satan's way, because it mandates behavior and restricts someone's freedom.

I don't know how effective masks are, but I look on the bright side, my entire family has not gotten sick since February and that is a miracle!

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 8:10 pm

Fred wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 4:07 pm

Gospel Donkey wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 3:41 pm It is a requirement of local law in our area. The decision to force mask wearing came from Area Presidency, the gospel teaches obey and sustain law of the land.
Church insurrection person are the ones who should be booted out the church.

In 20y from now looking back one will see that wearing of masks was a very minor trivial thing, and getting worked up over it is plain silly.
The spiritual damage to those getting worked up over masks wil have long term eternal consequences.

FALSE
There is no law in any area that requires masks. You might consider the differences between a rule, regulation statute, ordinance, law, or even an illegal declaration of emergency that exceeded 30 days.

If you live in Utah the mask order (not law) was issued by a governor that was not even legally the governor.

Laws are codified. That means you can look them up in a book of laws. There is no book that lists a mask law.

Spreading lies does not help anyone besides Satan. There is not even a possibility that a mask can help a healthy person not catch covid. There are people that have died from wearing a mask. Wearing something that creates a warm, moist, environment to propagate a virus is among the stupidest things a person can do.

Anytime anyone tells a lie that hurts more than it helps, that person is evil. There is not now, nor has there ever been, any evidence that a healthy person should wear a mask to prevent covid. When a person of trust, like a Bishop, suggests that people take the symbol of Satan, he is lower than whale shite. That is pretty low at the bottom of the ocean. It is not an honest mistake. The worthless piece of shite is destroying people's lives. But even worse, he is leading people to follow Satan instead of Jesus.

Church is supposed to be like fire insurance. You know, against being burned as stubble in the latter days. This is the latter days. So when people go to church to find Jesus and the Bishop slams them with a mandatory Satan following order, the Bishop might be better off committing suicide. Something about a mill stone around his neck in the water where the whale shite is.

Speaking of following Jesus...Jesus also said to Render to Cæsar the things that are Cæsar's, and to God the things that are God's. This means that we wear masks if required.

And let's not forget the 12th article of faith.

I fully believe that if Christ were here today, he would wear a mask because he is humble and obedient. Wouldn't he much rather wear a mask than to be nailed to a cross to die?

Pride and railing on church leaders is not a sign of following Christ, not by a long shot.

Well, the only problem is ... THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED!

None of you know it alls have read the state website which talks about this "requirement".

This is obvious.
dc

The native americans should be saying the same thing to all us AMERICANS....the hell with your t-shirts and pants!

Maybe we should create reservation lands for those anti-maskers to live in.

Gospel Donkey wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 8:07 pm

David13 wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 7:42 pm I see all these sheep dutifully wearing their face diapers. Obedient little children, doing whatever some government nabob tells them to, ration or reason of it of no matter. Don't sing in church. Don't ask why not. Just obey.

When the governor farts, that is not a law. It matters not if he farts out of his donkey, or out of his mouth.

Laws are actually enacted by the legislature sitting in session. The governor can only sign their enactments into law, or veto it.

I see these obedient little sheep and I wonder where I am. Have I fallen onto some planet of faceless zombies, who scurry about like down faced little mice, doing whatever they are told, nonsense of no import to them, just blind obedience.
dc

Best to be a sheep and follow the prophet, than end up a goat on the left hand.

There is a storm coming and plagues way more deadly than covid 19. This is preparation for what is to come. When Jesus appeared to the Nephites he explains they were not destroyed because they did not stone the prophets, then goes on to list all the cities burnt to the ground., and swallowed up by earthquakes. Every generation since the beginning has thought themselves more wise than the prophets, it is no different today.

The sifting of the sheep from the goats has started, if wearing a mask upsets you now, beware that which is to come will be like a steam roller running over you.

Again, more of your silly dreams.

Wearing a mask does not upset me. Why on earth would it? I just don't do it. You probably should read up a bit more on that. It's clear you don't understand it at all.

It SHOULD upset you, but no, sheep like you go along with whatever nonsense they plague you with.

Of course you and all your elite understanding of scripture will save you. You may well hope. And hope that the steam roller does not run over you.
dc

BeHealthy94 wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 9:22 pm The native americans should be saying the same thing to all us AMERICANS....the hell with your t-shirts and pants!

Maybe we should create reservation lands for those anti-maskers to live in.

Now there is a deep state thought...

David13 wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 9:17 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 8:10 pm

Fred wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 4:07 pm

Gospel Donkey wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 3:41 pm It is a requirement of local law in our area. The decision to force mask wearing came from Area Presidency, the gospel teaches obey and sustain law of the land.
Church insurrection person are the ones who should be booted out the church.

In 20y from now looking back one will see that wearing of masks was a very minor trivial thing, and getting worked up over it is plain silly.
The spiritual damage to those getting worked up over masks wil have long term eternal consequences.

FALSE
There is no law in any area that requires masks. You might consider the differences between a rule, regulation statute, ordinance, law, or even an illegal declaration of emergency that exceeded 30 days.

If you live in Utah the mask order (not law) was issued by a governor that was not even legally the governor.

Laws are codified. That means you can look them up in a book of laws. There is no book that lists a mask law.

Spreading lies does not help anyone besides Satan. There is not even a possibility that a mask can help a healthy person not catch covid. There are people that have died from wearing a mask. Wearing something that creates a warm, moist, environment to propagate a virus is among the stupidest things a person can do.

Anytime anyone tells a lie that hurts more than it helps, that person is evil. There is not now, nor has there ever been, any evidence that a healthy person should wear a mask to prevent covid. When a person of trust, like a Bishop, suggests that people take the symbol of Satan, he is lower than whale shite. That is pretty low at the bottom of the ocean. It is not an honest mistake. The worthless piece of shite is destroying people's lives. But even worse, he is leading people to follow Satan instead of Jesus.

Church is supposed to be like fire insurance. You know, against being burned as stubble in the latter days. This is the latter days. So when people go to church to find Jesus and the Bishop slams them with a mandatory Satan following order, the Bishop might be better off committing suicide. Something about a mill stone around his neck in the water where the whale shite is.

Speaking of following Jesus...Jesus also said to Render to Cæsar the things that are Cæsar's, and to God the things that are God's. This means that we wear masks if required.

And let's not forget the 12th article of faith.

I fully believe that if Christ were here today, he would wear a mask because he is humble and obedient. Wouldn't he much rather wear a mask than to be nailed to a cross to die?

Pride and railing on church leaders is not a sign of following Christ, not by a long shot.

Well, the only problem is ... THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED!

None of you know it alls have read the state website which talks about this "requirement".

This is obvious.
dc

I repeat...I fully believe that if Christ were here today, he would wear a mask because he is humble and obedient. Wouldn't he much rather wear a mask than to be nailed to a cross to die?

It requires wisdom to know which battle to take on. If I don't wear a mask, being diabetic, I do not get medical care. Groceries and other necessities are difficult to buy if not wearing a mask. I don't like wearing one but I like getting slugged in the face even less. At 73, playing the macho role is not wise. Staying from unnecessary bumps and bruises is. Do you know what its like to live under a commiesocialist Governor? Kate Brown is playing the role of a Queen. And she has been funded by George Soros. Say what you will, but don't pretend that people are simply sheep. Know and be wise as to which battle to enter.

Yup when Jesus was on earth the Jews were under Roman Occupation, yes and utterly corrupt, obey and honour the law has little to do with who made the law etc.. Jesus was obedient to all Roman required customs.
Compared to other things happening like excessive taxes lockdown, total destruction of the US constitution, stolen elections, to make a huge fus over a mask that health professionals in every country of the world have endorced as well a church leadership, is a spiritual damaging path to take.

Reference to Nazi Germany in the same sentence as wearing masks is insane.

Fred wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 1:16 pm There is no legitimate argument that can be made for wearing a mask to prevent getting covid. Two General Authorities lied about mask effectiveness and got covid. This is not a roll of the dice where there might be a case for a healthy person to wear a mask. There is no such reason.

So we can with 100% accuracy declare anyone that suggests masks prevent getting covid to be a liar. There is a commandment against that.

We would not trust a doctor that was too stupid to read the label that says not effective against covid-19.

So once a Bishop is a known liar, perhaps possessed by an evil spirit, maybe even a dedicated Disciple of Satan that infiltrated the church, perhaps a member of the deep state whose intentions are to destroy the Kingdom of God, or any other reason that causes him to lie, we kindly inform him that he is not telling the truth and he must stop immediately, if not sooner. If he recognizes his sin against mankind and ceases to lie, then we forgive and move on.

But if he does not, or is being blackmailed by his superiors that won't give him a million dollar retirement package if he does not follow their directions, then the evil begins to come forth. If he is not being blackmailed and is simply too stupid to believe the manufacturer of the masks that they are not effective, then he has no business being in charge of a ward. That would make him a mentally defective imbecile worthy of a straight jacket.

When politicians in Washington DC lie or when the media lie, we do not have much control over that other than to say the world has gone to hell and we need to do something at the local level. The Bishop is at the local level.

If a person is asked to speak at Sacrament Meeting, he/she may say that the original topic has changed and we will be discussing the efficacy of masks. If the Bishop censors the speaker for telling the truth, then a larger truth is shown. Once the truth is out, the lemmings will be enlightened and no longer follow Satan.

We have an obligation to not allow bullshite to enter our brain, especially at church. If the Bishop acknowledges that truth will not be tolerated in Sacrament Meeting, well, then, there you have it.

This war is between good and evil and some of us are helping evil to win.

A sample size of two would be rejected by any beginner statistictian or pollster, much less an experimented one.

The masks have been proven effective in multiple studies across multiple nations. But they are not stand-alone. Wear them improperly, commit cross-contamination, use antihygienical practices like not washing your hands or walking inside with outdoor shoes on, and failing to keep your distance in ANY combination can lead to a higher probability of getting the virus, mask or no mask. It is a series of steps, not just one in isolation.

Which is another mistake that non-statisticians make when they try to read statistics: Trying to isolate one fundamental cause and make a faulty correlation to that. This disease is complex and requires a combination of solutions.

Masks have no place in a church that professes belief in Jesus Christ. Especially in a church that professes agency as the foundational doctrine of Heaven. How can this church FORCE anyone to wear a mask? Force was the other guy’s plan, remember!

Jesus Christ not only took upon him our sins, but he also took upon himself our sicknesses and diseases. Wearing a mask is a symbol of unbelief in the Savior you profess to believe in. Unbelief lead to the downfall of previous civilizations. Looks like we are leading the pack down that road.

Wearing a mask while blessing and passing the sacrament, which are emblems of our Savior’s sacrifice and atonement for us, is an abomination. We draw near unto Him with our lips, but our hearts and actions are far from Him. To say we believe in him and do the opposite makes us a hypocritical church/nation.

Show your faith in Christ, go to church without a mask. Sing and socialize and fellowship with other believers. It’s not about the church, it’s about Jesus Christ.

Well, someone complained about my harsh words and I replied but then the whole conversation got deleted and my response got deleted with it so for those that missed it and wondered why I used such harsh language, here is the reply that got deleted.

------

Well, under normal circumstances, I would agree with you. However, we need to hold people in positions of trust to a higher standard. For instance if the neighbor kid is caught playing pee pees with your daughter of a similar age, would you view it the same as if it was your Bishop? I hope not. So it is when a lie that is a proven lie is told over the pulpit.

We live in a world that is being sifted. Part of the sifting process is taking sides with Satan (the deep state) or Christ. Seems like an easy enough choice. So an investigator attends an LDS church and is forced to wear a mask. He knows that the mask is a farce and now he knows that the Bishop is, also. Or maybe a young person not having a personal testimony as of yet, but has been taught LDS his entire life and so at least believes. He studies videos of world renowned doctors that deal with virus every day. Not just play doctors like Fauci that hasn't had an actual patient in 50 years. He learns that mask manufacturers all place a notice on the package and sometimes on the actual mask that the mask is not effective against covid. Gee, they ought to know, right? He learns that it is not even possible for a mask to stop a virus from passing through. So he goes to church and tries to educate the Bishop. The Bishop is rude and has no time for taking advice from a teenager. The Bishop doubles down and in Sacrament Meeting warns everyone that they will either wear a mask or not be allowed in. Now the kid has a choice to make. The Bishop is obviously wrong. The Bishop is not willing to listen to facts. The kid being wise for his age decides it is not in his best interest to take advice from those that are not competent to give it. He realizes that the church is made of liars and he wants no part of it. The Bishop is guilty of a crime that God says "It would be better for him if he were not born."

About half of the population thinks communism is a good thing. So there are a vast number of people that are not playing with a full deck. These people are easily fooled. People that are in a position of trust have an obligation not only not to sexually molest people, but to also not lie to them. Words like liar, idiot, or stupid, are rather soft words for a person that God says would be better off not being born.

Lineman1012 wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 11:12 pm Masks have no place in a church that professes belief in Jesus Christ. Especially in a church that professes agency as the foundational doctrine of Heaven. How can this church FORCE anyone to wear a mask? Force was the other guy’s plan, remember!

"Their yard, their rules." If the Church wants to remain in good graces with the government and be good neighbors with the people where its members live, they ask everyone to follow the current regulations in place. Or in our case, simply not hold meetings at the chapel and have meetings at home, where masks are NOT required and singing IS done without any problems.

Jesus Christ not only took upon him our sins, but he also took upon himself our sicknesses and diseases. Wearing a mask is a symbol of unbelief in the Savior you profess to believe in. Unbelief lead to the downfall of previous civilizations. Looks like we are leading the pack down that road.

Jesus Christ took upon Himself our sicknesses and troubles. That doesn't mean we purposefully get in trouble or seek to purposefully get sick, nor follow regulations designed to protect public health. The caduceus is partially based on the story of the brazen serpent that Moses lifted up to the unbelieving Israelites, who only had to look at the brazen serpent to live, while quite a few chose not to do so and died. Right now the masks, as well as the other regulations of social distancing, are for our own good. In addition, it is being taught in the entire Church, not just in the context of the Prophets and Apostles, but the local leaders as well, that following these regulations means that you love your neighbor and you have charity in your heart, following the Second Great Commandment, and not following these regulations means that you do not care about your neighbor and that you do not follow the Second Great Commandment of Christ, being selfish and stroking your own ego and pride.

Wearing a mask while blessing and passing the sacrament, which are emblems of our Savior’s sacrifice and atonement for us, is an abomination. We draw near unto Him with our lips, but our hearts and actions are far from Him. To say we believe in him and do the opposite makes us a hypocritical church/nation.

Again, this is to protect the weak and the weakest of the Saints. This is, originally, how the Word of Wisdom came out, was to do this. The Church is also doing these mask requirements to protect the weak and weakest among us, speaking of health. It is NOT about us---it is about OTHERS. Having charity, the pure love of Christ. This is one reason why the current idea of America is failing --> it is increasingly seen around the world as a society that cares more about ME than WE; despite the Constitution saying "WE THE PEOPLE" it seems more like "ME, MYSELF, and IRENE." And a civilization that does not look after the weak and the weakest of its members, is a civilization that is on the fast track to barbarism.

Show your faith in Christ, go to church without a mask. Sing and socialize and fellowship with other believers. It’s not about the church, it’s about Jesus Christ.

If it is truly about Jesus Christ, then we need to do what the Called Servants of Jesus Christ are doing. They are masking up and following the guidelines during this pandemic, and we should too.

Fred wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 2:29 pm

Shaffer89 wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 2:12 pm I'm not really sure where to start with my response.
I can only assume you are trolling so I'm just going to say that I very much don't agree and I think bishops and church leaders are just as susceptible to being incorrect as the rest of us.

Sure. I am simply suggesting that people help them overcome their delusions.

Also, if a Bishop is allowed to repeatedly lie, he will come to believe his own lies. Leading hundreds of people to hell is punishable in the hereafter. Liars should not be leading congregations.

I don't see those who advocate masks, whether Bishops or not, as being involved in lying, per se. They are simply caught up in believing what appears to many, including myself, to be a social conformity delusion. I like the word 'meme' for these kinds of social/emotional belief storms, after Dawkins 1977, not the current internet meaning. They have always been around, but are currently raging among large swatches of the earth's population.

Perhaps the most virulent and toxic current one has been TDS, with the various shades of 'Never Trumpers' being not far behind. The primary characteristic of people who subscribe to these emotional storms, is that they lose objectivity regarding their target, whether an idea (masks) or person. They are also apt to use black-and-white thinking (e.g., mask wearers bad, selfish, no love or charity) and hasty or sweeping generalizations about their target. And their own self-image seems to play a large part in their obsession, either projecting their own weaknesses on the target, or publicly feeling superior (virtue signaling) toward it.

For people who direct this kind of emotional energy toward a person, you probably will never be able to dislodge them from their obsession, using resaon/logic or direct evidence. Probably much easier to dislodge someone from a belief in a false idea such as "no masks, bad; therefore, people not wearing masks, bad".

So I would say, when Mitt calls DT a fraud and a phony, etc., etc., he is really expressing a subconscious fear that he is those things, so in giving public voice to such thoughts, he is notifying his hearers that he is none of those things (virtue signaling).

I've harped on this idea on this forum quite a bit (and elsewhere) because I really believe it's helped me understand this kind of emotional 'thinking', which is so prevalent in our day.

I wonder if Elders Gong and Renlund were administered to. They claimed that the masks work. Clearly they do not. Both men now have firm testimonies that masks do not prevent covid.

Both recovered. If they were administered to, should they give the credit to God? They are in the high age group. People younger than them have died. The reason this is important is because previously they put their faith in the mask. The masks did not work. As far as I know they still promote masks that they knew for a 100% fact do not work. Continuing to promote mask wearing after getting covid with a mask on seems less than honest. God gave them another chance at life to get it right. Did they?

If they were not administered to that would seem to me to be an extreme lack of faith.

nightlight wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 6:05 pm

Gospel Donkey wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 3:41 pm It is a requirement of local law in our area. The decision to force mask wearing came from Area Presidency, the gospel teaches obey and sustain law of the land.
Church insurrection person are the ones who should be booted out the church.

In 20y from now looking back one will see that wearing of masks was a very minor trivial thing, and getting worked up over it is plain silly.
The spiritual damage to those getting worked up over masks wil have long term eternal consequences.

"Obey and sustain the law of the land"

Lol you understand that laws come through legislation? You get that governors just can't make up laws, right? You're not obeying sustaining the law, your obeying and sustaining lawlessness by claiming it's a law....

It's clear why German Mormons acted the way they did in Nazi Germany.....

Not all of them . . . . . mentioning Helmuth Huebener and his friends.

samizdat wrote: ↑January 18th, 2021, 12:40 am

Lineman1012 wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 11:12 pm Masks have no place in a church that professes belief in Jesus Christ. Especially in a church that professes agency as the foundational doctrine of Heaven. How can this church FORCE anyone to wear a mask? Force was the other guy’s plan, remember!

"Their yard, their rules." If the Church wants to remain in good graces with the government and be good neighbors with the people where its members live, they ask everyone to follow the current regulations in place. Or in our case, simply not hold meetings at the chapel and have meetings at home, where masks are NOT required and singing IS done without any problems.

Jesus Christ not only took upon him our sins, but he also took upon himself our sicknesses and diseases. Wearing a mask is a symbol of unbelief in the Savior you profess to believe in. Unbelief lead to the downfall of previous civilizations. Looks like we are leading the pack down that road.

Jesus Christ took upon Himself our sicknesses and troubles. That doesn't mean we purposefully get in trouble or seek to purposefully get sick, nor follow regulations designed to protect public health. The caduceus is partially based on the story of the brazen serpent that Moses lifted up to the unbelieving Israelites, who only had to look at the brazen serpent to live, while quite a few chose not to do so and died. Right now the masks, as well as the other regulations of social distancing, are for our own good. In addition, it is being taught in the entire Church, not just in the context of the Prophets and Apostles, but the local leaders as well, that following these regulations means that you love your neighbor and you have charity in your heart, following the Second Great Commandment, and not following these regulations means that you do not care about your neighbor and that you do not follow the Second Great Commandment of Christ, being selfish and stroking your own ego and pride.

Wearing a mask while blessing and passing the sacrament, which are emblems of our Savior’s sacrifice and atonement for us, is an abomination. We draw near unto Him with our lips, but our hearts and actions are far from Him. To say we believe in him and do the opposite makes us a hypocritical church/nation.

Again, this is to protect the weak and the weakest of the Saints. This is, originally, how the Word of Wisdom came out, was to do this. The Church is also doing these mask requirements to protect the weak and weakest among us, speaking of health. It is NOT about us---it is about OTHERS. Having charity, the pure love of Christ. This is one reason why the current idea of America is failing --> it is increasingly seen around the world as a society that cares more about ME than WE; despite the Constitution saying "WE THE PEOPLE" it seems more like "ME, MYSELF, and IRENE." And a civilization that does not look after the weak and the weakest of its members, is a civilization that is on the fast track to barbarism.

Show your faith in Christ, go to church without a mask. Sing and socialize and fellowship with other believers. It’s not about the church, it’s about Jesus Christ.

If it is truly about Jesus Christ, then we need to do what the Called Servants of Jesus Christ are doing. They are masking up and following the guidelines during this pandemic, and we should too.

Not wearing a mask means you're not Christlike?

Bwhahahah didnt you just get done saying we shouldn't judge people ??????

Careful... you're looking naked

It's not about the virus. It's a sign of Christ-like love.

mcusick wrote: ↑January 18th, 2021, 1:27 am It's not about the virus. It's a sign of Christ-like love.

Could you elaborate on that? I can't think of a single possibility...

larsenb wrote: ↑January 18th, 2021, 1:13 am

nightlight wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 6:05 pm

Gospel Donkey wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 3:41 pm It is a requirement of local law in our area. The decision to force mask wearing came from Area Presidency, the gospel teaches obey and sustain law of the land.
Church insurrection person are the ones who should be booted out the church.

In 20y from now looking back one will see that wearing of masks was a very minor trivial thing, and getting worked up over it is plain silly.
The spiritual damage to those getting worked up over masks wil have long term eternal consequences.

"Obey and sustain the law of the land"

Lol you understand that laws come through legislation? You get that governors just can't make up laws, right? You're not obeying sustaining the law, your obeying and sustaining lawlessness by claiming it's a law....

It's clear why German Mormons acted the way they did in Nazi Germany.....

Not all of them . . . . . mentioning Helmuth Huebener and his friends.

Yes.

Still...this was a dark time for the church


"In 1937, the president of the LDS Church, Heber J. Grant, had visited Germany and urged the members to remain, get along, and not cause trouble.[citation needed] Consequently, some church members saw Hübener as a troublemaker who made things difficult for other Latter-day Saints in Germany. This recommendation did not change after Kristallnacht, which occurred the year following Grant's visit, after which he evacuated all non-German Latter-day Saint missionaries.

Local Latter-day Saint branch president, Arthur Zander, was a supporter of the Nazi Party, and had affixed a notice to the meetinghouse entrance stating "Jews not welcome". Ten days after the arrest of Hübener, on 15 February 1942, Zander excommunicated the young man demonstratively,[9] without consulting his church superiors or holding the church court normally prerequisite for excommunication or other discipline.[10]

The day of his execution, Hübener wrote to a fellow branch member, "I know that God lives and He will be the Just Judge in this matter… I look forward to seeing you in a better world!" (Excerpt from a letter written by Hübener, the only one believed to still exist.)[11]

In 1946, four years later and after the war, Hübener was posthumously reinstated into the LDS Church by new mission president, Max Zimmer, saying the excommunication was not carried through with the proper procedures. He was also posthumously rebaptized, ordained an elder, and endowed in 1948.[12]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_H%C3%BCbener


The bastards thought he needed to be rebaptized......

Imagine trying to baptize a dead hero who's spirit is wearing the White Robe

Fred wrote: ↑January 18th, 2021, 1:31 am

mcusick wrote: ↑January 18th, 2021, 1:27 am It's not about the virus. It's a sign of Christ-like love.

Could you elaborate on that? I can't think of a single possibility...

Charity, described in the Book of Mormon as the Pure Love of Christ. Translated in German as "Nächstenliebe" which means the next step in love.

Loving your Neighbor, described by Jesus Christ as the Second Great Commandment in the law, next to that of loving God with all of our heart, might, mind and strength.

Being our Brother's Keeper, which the fallen Cain could not keep.

Fred wrote: ↑January 18th, 2021, 1:31 am

mcusick wrote: ↑January 18th, 2021, 1:27 am It's not about the virus. It's a sign of Christ-like love.

Could you elaborate on that? I can't think of a single possibility...

I've been praying for the vaccine. Now it is here. God is a God of miracles indeed.

.....

Sorry, my sarcasm can flirt with blasphemy. Kind of like when Jesus called the Pharisees "just persons, which need no repentance" (Luke 15:7).

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2021, 1:33 am

larsenb wrote: ↑January 18th, 2021, 1:13 am

nightlight wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 6:05 pm

Gospel Donkey wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 3:41 pm It is a requirement of local law in our area. The decision to force mask wearing came from Area Presidency, the gospel teaches obey and sustain law of the land.
Church insurrection person are the ones who should be booted out the church.

In 20y from now looking back one will see that wearing of masks was a very minor trivial thing, and getting worked up over it is plain silly.
The spiritual damage to those getting worked up over masks wil have long term eternal consequences.

"Obey and sustain the law of the land"

Lol you understand that laws come through legislation? You get that governors just can't make up laws, right? You're not obeying sustaining the law, your obeying and sustaining lawlessness by claiming it's a law....

It's clear why German Mormons acted the way they did in Nazi Germany.....

Not all of them . . . . . mentioning Helmuth Huebener and his friends.

Yes.

Still...this was a dark time for the church


"In 1937, the president of the LDS Church, Heber J. Grant, had visited Germany and urged the members to remain, get along, and not cause trouble.[citation needed] Consequently, some church members saw Hübener as a troublemaker who made things difficult for other Latter-day Saints in Germany. This recommendation did not change after Kristallnacht, which occurred the year following Grant's visit, after which he evacuated all non-German Latter-day Saint missionaries.

Local Latter-day Saint branch president, Arthur Zander, was a supporter of the Nazi Party, and had affixed a notice to the meetinghouse entrance stating "Jews not welcome". Ten days after the arrest of Hübener, on 15 February 1942, Zander excommunicated the young man demonstratively,[9] without consulting his church superiors or holding the church court normally prerequisite for excommunication or other discipline.[10]

The day of his execution, Hübener wrote to a fellow branch member, "I know that God lives and He will be the Just Judge in this matter… I look forward to seeing you in a better world!" (Excerpt from a letter written by Hübener, the only one believed to still exist.)[11]

In 1946, four years later and after the war, Hübener was posthumously reinstated into the LDS Church by new mission president, Max Zimmer, saying the excommunication was not carried through with the proper procedures. He was also posthumously rebaptized, ordained an elder, and endowed in 1948.[12]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_H%C3%BCbener


The bastards thought he needed to be rebaptized......

Imagine trying to baptize a dead hero who's spirit is wearing the White Robe

There is an order in everything. If one is excommunicated, unjustly, this is the correct order, what the Mission President did, after consulting with the First Presidency (convenient how that gets left out; as all rebaptisms have to have FP approval).

mcusick wrote: ↑January 18th, 2021, 1:27 am It's not about the virus. It's a sign of Christ-like love.

SMH....

nightlight wrote: ↑January 18th, 2021, 1:33 am

larsenb wrote: ↑January 18th, 2021, 1:13 am

nightlight wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 6:05 pm

Gospel Donkey wrote: ↑January 17th, 2021, 3:41 pm It is a requirement of local law in our area. The decision to force mask wearing came from Area Presidency, the gospel teaches obey and sustain law of the land.
Church insurrection person are the ones who should be booted out the church.

In 20y from now looking back one will see that wearing of masks was a very minor trivial thing, and getting worked up over it is plain silly.
The spiritual damage to those getting worked up over masks wil have long term eternal consequences.

"Obey and sustain the law of the land"

Lol you understand that laws come through legislation? You get that governors just can't make up laws, right? You're not obeying sustaining the law, your obeying and sustaining lawlessness by claiming it's a law....

It's clear why German Mormons acted the way they did in Nazi Germany.....

Not all of them . . . . . mentioning Helmuth Huebener and his friends.

Yes.

Still...this was a dark time for the church


"In 1937, the president of the LDS Church, Heber J. Grant, had visited Germany and urged the members to remain, get along, and not cause trouble.[citation needed] Consequently, some church members saw Hübener as a troublemaker who made things difficult for other Latter-day Saints in Germany. This recommendation did not change after Kristallnacht, which occurred the year following Grant's visit, after which he evacuated all non-German Latter-day Saint missionaries.

Local Latter-day Saint branch president, Arthur Zander, was a supporter of the Nazi Party, and had affixed a notice to the meetinghouse entrance stating "Jews not welcome". Ten days after the arrest of Hübener, on 15 February 1942, Zander excommunicated the young man demonstratively,[9] without consulting his church superiors or holding the church court normally prerequisite for excommunication or other discipline.[10]

The day of his execution, Hübener wrote to a fellow branch member, "I know that God lives and He will be the Just Judge in this matter… I look forward to seeing you in a better world!" (Excerpt from a letter written by Hübener, the only one believed to still exist.)[11]

In 1946, four years later and after the war, Hübener was posthumously reinstated into the LDS Church by new mission president, Max Zimmer, saying the excommunication was not carried through with the proper procedures. He was also posthumously rebaptized, ordained an elder, and endowed in 1948.[12]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_H%C3%BCbener


The bastards thought he needed to be rebaptized......

Imagine trying to baptize a dead hero who's spirit is wearing the White Robe

How embarrassing.

Were the church leaders not inspired to denounce the Nazi movement was evil???
This may explain much much better the current 'stuff' we're getting.