The brethren will get the vaccine as soon as possible

[Silver Pie]

The brethren will get the vaccine as soon as possible

Good.

[SmallFarm]

"know what's going on" what a loaded statement colored by perception

Sounds like you're quite in-step with the brethren, yourself.

The brethren suffer from people holding them to a higher standard than what they deserve; supporters and detractors.

[Allison]

I like what he said and agree, my Judgment Day interview will be with Him, and not any other church leaders, as much as we appreciate all of the good they try to do.

And they are in tune enough to constantly emphasize Personal Revelation!

I think they mean well. A good friend is a daughter-in-law of one of the 15. He voted for Trump and believes Trump is trying to take out the Deep State, though he has been labeled a democrat in this forum. He is not.

Yet my friend who knows all about basically all of the conspiracies and that Covid is a hoax, won’t take the vaccine, etc., says forthrightly that she knows things that he doesn’t know. Yet she is also too respectful to push what she knows onto him. Her husband (his son) believed a lot of what her research uncovered, but some stuff (pedovores) was too much for him to believe until a psychologist friend of theirs brought it up and confirmed it. So even his son gets it now but is very respectful and not apt to steady the ark.

That member of the 15 also has a grandson who is involved in an anti-mask and anti-lockdown group. That GA seems to be *gradually* becoming more aware of things.

Then though, he has to interface with the other 14, and my friend said some of those meetings can be rather raucous, as they are all men of strong opinion and conviction, but they are good at staying friends and not getting personal. My friend says that when they act as a united body, they have really gone through a rigorous process to get to that point.

Just for what it’s worth.

We should really be praying for them all.

Thanks for this report, Allison. It makes me realize (again) that these men are NOT prophets. They don't even know the time of day, in a sense. They are sitting in a gilded cage, getting news from the NYT and WSJ, oblivious to the big picture that the peons are well-aware of, and we are supposing that if we could just educate them, there would be a turn-around. The thing is, why hasn't God told them anything about any of this? We should be learning from them, not hoping for some improvement by us getting through to them with some idea. Save your own family's life by ceasing to depend on such people for ANYTHING, because they don't have it, and at this late stage, probably aren't going to get it. That they have us revere them as prophets is just damnable.

Not sure they want us to revere them, nor that they pretend to have all of the answers. Did they claim to be walking crystal balls who have the final word on all topics? Why can we not be okay with knowing that we know more than they do on some topics, even important topics? Maybe they would benefit from a courteous letter or flurry of well-spoken, professionally written letters.

But why would prophets need professionally-written letters to learn about what is going on? The YouTube prophets all know what is going on because they actually want to know. That would be funny to write letters to all the YouTube prophets, encouraging them to be more professional. They could wear suits, improve their grooming, and talk more like lawyers. Our prophets are administrators.

I say professionally written because of an experience I had long ago wherein I was trying to get some evidence to our Area President about a problem of our Bishop and Stake President giving aid and comfort to the two perpetrators who molested our children.

When I contacted his office about that, his secretary was so helpful. She suggested I write a one to one and a half page cover letter, double spaced. I asked why and she explained that they get so much mail, they (clerical staff) had to basically triage the mail. Basically, if a letter was handwritten, or pages long, or single spaced, it came across as coming from...shall we say, an eccentric type?

That’s just the harsh reality in a huge church like ours. If we want to be taken more seriously, we should strive for professionalism.

[Silver Pie]

Take a look at the comments.

Wow! Methinks they might be consistently losing members faster and faster as time goes on.

[Silver Pie]

Missionaries are not required to vaccinate, and haven't been, at least for a while. The Church just never told anyone that unless specifically asked, lol, and I guess it was rare someone asked, because it said on the form, "required."

Good questions about whose decision.

Yep. People believe it is a requirement because it says "required." I know I did.

[Allison]

Maybe they would benefit from a courteous letter or flurry of well-spoken, professionally written letters.

I know you know that you were not the first one to think of this and even the 28492247th person to think of this. It's been attempted many many many times. Do you truly think that they will all of a sudden listen now because someone somewhere will have a special way with words that others did not?

A surge of letters on a given topic could certainly get their attention. Do you think they softened on gay marriage and courting gays because they weren’t getting any mail on that subject?

[CosmicMind]

Maybe they would benefit from a courteous letter or flurry of well-spoken, professionally written letters.

I know you know that you were not the first one to think of this and even the 28492247th person to think of this. It's been attempted many many many times. Do you truly think that they will all of a sudden listen now because someone somewhere will have a special way with words that others did not?

A surge of letters on a given topic could certainly get their attention. Do you think they softened on gay marriage and courting gays because they weren’t getting any mail on that subject?

Maybe normal people are figuring out how the church really operates instead of how they wish it to operate. One has to understand what the head is concerned about most. The head is concerned about most how many people receive suchandsuch ordinance-that is the measure of success. Anything that threatens that metric can be tossed.

If enough people turn in their temple recommends over homosexual issues (for/against) the church will bend one way or the other. If enough people say I'm not paying tithing over this or that, the church will bend.

[Pazooka]

Thanks for this report, Allison. It makes me realize (again) that these men are NOT prophets. They don't even know the time of day, in a sense. They are sitting in a gilded cage, getting news from the NYT and WSJ, oblivious to the big picture that the peons are well-aware of, and we are supposing that if we could just educate them, there would be a turn-around. The thing is, why hasn't God told them anything about any of this? We should be learning from them, not hoping for some improvement by us getting through to them with some idea. Save your own family's life by ceasing to depend on such people for ANYTHING, because they don't have it, and at this late stage, probably aren't going to get it. That they have us revere them as prophets is just damnable.

Not sure they want us to revere them, nor that they pretend to have all of the answers. Did they claim to be walking crystal balls who have the final word on all topics? Why can we not be okay with knowing that we know more than they do on some topics, even important topics? Maybe they would benefit from a courteous letter or flurry of well-spoken, professionally written letters.

I spent 10 seconds finding this statement from Boyd K Packer (1979). Do you know how many similar statements I could have drummed up in a whole minute?

The whole burden of my message can be said in three simple words: FOLLOW THE BRETHREN. Though I may elaborate and attempt to illustrate and emphasize, there is the fact, the disarmingly simple fact, that in the three words, FOLLOW THE BRETHREN, rests the most important counsel that I could give to you.

Yes, and yet Elder Oaks said not so much!

It would be helpful if you could provide an actual quote.

[JohnnyL]

The following is a video of church leaders from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints supporting the vaccine. It was captured during a church leadership training in the U.S.

Wow. They really do buy the main stream deception...... Is their any reason to think he was faking that???

Man...... Is it us? Are we messed up? I wonder if it's me? and my thinking?
How can I seem to be this contrarian to the Brethren??

When you question your own reality, it is a sign you are being gaslighted. Remember if the Holy Spirit is within us, we will know then the truth. By their fruits ye shall know them. Good leaders don't gaslight their followers. They enlighten you (D&C 50) not confuse you.

Good leaders do not get stuck in confirmation bias nor encourage their followers to have it. They instill people to challenge their own paradigms. The Holy Spirit confirms truth, and sometimes the truth can be uncomfortable, but needs to be followed.

The Church is run by the Holy Spirit. The Apostles have it, and are privy to information that oftentimes the general membership, even those that are considered to be "awakened" on one side and "woke" on the other side, do not have...

And sometimes they are not, such as in these matters, if this is their willing and true stance. Are they unaware that the G.r. own CNN, the NYT, etc.? With the hundreds, thousands of websites that show proof of so many things contrary to "official" stories, it seems like it's by choice of either not wanting to believe, not wanting to know, or being forced.

Why are apostles so caught up in vaccines, masks, Biden winning the election, etc.? Maybe they have seen Biden win, and know they must support him? Anyway, it would seem, lol, that saving matters should be more important than non-saving matters--things they have said themselves, before.

[JohnnyL]

Sounds like it's time to write letters!

I'm doing it now.

[buffalo_girl]

I think the even more concerning issue here is that this video is technically only available to the leadership of the church. They need to stop with limiting access to church resources. If the mantra that the church pushes is true and that the youth today are the future leaders of the church, then they need to start their leadership training now regardless of their current position!

Well, yes, let's 'all see eye to eye'!

Is this clip manipulated? How was it obtained?

Whoever this is - I'm not saying he isn't Elder Uchtdorf - seems more like a doubleganger. Psychological operations can be pulled off any number of ways,. The power elite have been creating reality for us all of our lives.

You do recall that early on the luciferians running this 'live exercise' intended to employ church leaders to convince their followers to go along with the 'plan'. We really are on our own in any case. Interestingly, the new Liahona Magazine is all about Personal Revelation.

Isaiah 52
8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the Lord shall bring again Zion.

Doctrine & Covenants 38
25 And again I say unto you, let every man esteem his brother as himself.
26 For what man among you having twelve sons, and is no respecter of them, and they serve him obediently, and he saith unto the one: Be thou clothed in robes and sit thou here; and to the other: Be thou clothed in rags and sit thou there—and looketh upon his sons and saith I am just?
27 Behold, this I have given unto you as a parable, and it is even as I am. I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine.
28 And again, I say unto you that the enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives.
29 Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land.
30 I tell you these things because of your prayers; wherefore, treasure up wisdom in your bosoms, lest the wickedness of men reveal these things unto you by their wickedness, in a manner which shall speak in your ears with a voice louder than that which shall shake the earth; but if ye are prepared ye shall not fear.
31 And that ye might escape the power of the enemy, and be gathered unto me a righteous people, without spot and blameless

[BeNotDeceived]

The following is a video of church leaders from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints supporting the vaccine. It was captured during a church leadership training in the U.S.

Doppelganger of Dr. Hans Krock, President of Krock Design Associates and Professor Emeritus, Dept. Ocean & Resources Engineering at UH, about OTEC, exploring in more detail how the technology works, and discussing its competitive advantages over other energy.

He should be 13 of 15

You will be assimilated.

[Chip]

Thanks for this report, Allison. It makes me realize (again) that these men are NOT prophets. They don't even know the time of day, in a sense. They are sitting in a gilded cage, getting news from the NYT and WSJ, oblivious to the big picture that the peons are well-aware of, and we are supposing that if we could just educate them, there would be a turn-around. The thing is, why hasn't God told them anything about any of this? We should be learning from them, not hoping for some improvement by us getting through to them with some idea. Save your own family's life by ceasing to depend on such people for ANYTHING, because they don't have it, and at this late stage, probably aren't going to get it. That they have us revere them as prophets is just damnable.

Not sure they want us to revere them, nor that they pretend to have all of the answers. Did they claim to be walking crystal balls who have the final word on all topics? Why can we not be okay with knowing that we know more than they do on some topics, even important topics? Maybe they would benefit from a courteous letter or flurry of well-spoken, professionally written letters.

But why would prophets need professionally-written letters to learn about what is going on? The YouTube prophets all know what is going on because they actually want to know. That would be funny to write letters to all the YouTube prophets, encouraging them to be more professional. They could wear suits, improve their grooming, and talk more like lawyers. Our prophets are administrators.

I say professionally written because of an experience I had long ago wherein I was trying to get some evidence to our Area President about a problem of our Bishop and Stake President giving aid and comfort to the two perpetrators who molested our children.

When I contacted his office about that, his secretary was so helpful. She suggested I write a one to one and a half page cover letter, double spaced. I asked why and she explained that they get so much mail, they (clerical staff) had to basically triage the mail. Basically, if a letter was handwritten, or pages long, or single spaced, it came across as coming from...shall we say, an eccentric type?

That’s just the harsh reality in a huge church like ours. If we want to be taken more seriously, we should strive for professionalism.

I agree, Allison, that such an approach would be more likely to get traction. I guess I'm kind of frustrated that we have to appeal for such things, in the first place. I often wonder if it was not God's intent that huge churches form, because this is the mode in which they operate - unless they somehow manage to maintain the influence of the Spirit, which is maybe unrealistic.

[Allison]

Not sure they want us to revere them, nor that they pretend to have all of the answers. Did they claim to be walking crystal balls who have the final word on all topics? Why can we not be okay with knowing that we know more than they do on some topics, even important topics? Maybe they would benefit from a courteous letter or flurry of well-spoken, professionally written letters.

I spent 10 seconds finding this statement from Boyd K Packer (1979). Do you know how many similar statements I could have drummed up in a whole minute?

The whole burden of my message can be said in three simple words: FOLLOW THE BRETHREN. Though I may elaborate and attempt to illustrate and emphasize, there is the fact, the disarmingly simple fact, that in the three words, FOLLOW THE BRETHREN, rests the most important counsel that I could give to you.

Yes, and yet Elder Oaks said not so much!

It would be helpful if you could provide an actual quote.

From Trust in the Lord, October 2019:

“As to all of these, the wise cautions of Elders D. Todd Christofferson and Neil L. Andersen in earlier general conference messages are important to remember. Elder Christofferson taught: ‘It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church.’5

“In the following conference, Elder Andersen taught this principle: ‘The doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk.’6 The family proclamation, signed by all 15 prophets, seers, and revelators, is a wonderful illustration of that principle.

“Beyond something as formal as the family proclamation, the prophetic teachings of the Presidents of the Church, affirmed by other prophets and apostles, are also an example of this.”

[Chip]

"know what's going on" what a loaded statement colored by perception

Sounds like you're quite in-step with the brethren, yourself.

The brethren suffer from people holding them to a higher standard than what they deserve; supporters and detractors.

They've mired people to themselves with the expectation that only they can provide God-like leadership. That people even need such leadership from other people is something they've promoted, too. Now, in crisis time, people are thirsting for truth, which exists on YouTube, but members think it would be wrong to seek anything other than the diet of watered-down skim milk they are being fed by the church.

[SmallFarm]

"know what's going on" what a loaded statement colored by perception

Sounds like you're quite in-step with the brethren, yourself.

The brethren suffer from people holding them to a higher standard than what they deserve; supporters and detractors.

They've mired people to themselves with the expectation that only they can provide God-like leadership. That people even need such leadership from other people is something they've promoted, too. Now, in crisis time, people are thirsting for truth, which exists on YouTube, but members think it would be wrong to seek anything other than the diet of watered-down skim milk they are being fed by the church.

...and some hold YouTube prophets to a higher standard then they deserve as well it seems

[Pazooka]

I spent 10 seconds finding this statement from Boyd K Packer (1979). Do you know how many similar statements I could have drummed up in a whole minute?

Yes, and yet Elder Oaks said not so much!

It would be helpful if you could provide an actual quote.

From Trust in the Lord, October 2019:

“As to all of these, the wise cautions of Elders D. Todd Christofferson and Neil L. Andersen in earlier general conference messages are important to remember. Elder Christofferson taught: ‘It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church.’5

“In the following conference, Elder Andersen taught this principle: ‘The doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk.’6 The family proclamation, signed by all 15 prophets, seers, and revelators, is a wonderful illustration of that principle.

“Beyond something as formal as the family proclamation, the prophetic teachings of the Presidents of the Church, affirmed by other prophets and apostles, are also an example of this.”

You’re countering Elder Packer’s “FOLLOW THE BRETHREN” statements with another “follow the brethren” statement?

[buffalo_girl]

It's imporant to read the entire Christofferson address, The Doctrine of Christ - including all the footnotes. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Mormon+Doctri ... 9-1&ia=web

Are we still supposed to uphold some of the more egregious notions put forth in the first edition of Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie? President McKay was shocked & embarrassed by 'doctrine' put forth in that book.

We are at the threshold of becoming Spiritually Sanctified Beings!

The Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis 14 regarding the Melchizedek Priesthood should give a pattern to follow on that journey: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 4?lang=eng

We also have at least one adult son struggling with behaviors I suspect were caused by vaccine reaction. An older son, seems also to have changed in his behaviors after receiving a series of vaccinations around age 17-month.

I will not bow to extortion - that isn't Christ's way. I'll take my chances with the promptings of my heart. Each one of us must make a choice. I cannot speak for anyone but for myself.

[Luke]

Are we still supposed to uphold some of the more egregious notions put forth in the first edition of Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie? President McKay was shocked & embarrassed by 'doctrine' put forth in that book.

Should have been called "False Doctrine". In fact according to the First Presidency review there were 1067 doctrinal errors in there (though I suspect there were probably more)

[Robin Hood]

Are we still supposed to uphold some of the more egregious notions put forth in the first edition of Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie? President McKay was shocked & embarrassed by 'doctrine' put forth in that book.

Should have been called "False Doctrine". In fact according to the First Presidency review there were 1067 doctrinal errors in there (though I suspect there were probably more)

On the whole though, it was an excellent resource in it's day.

[Luke]

Are we still supposed to uphold some of the more egregious notions put forth in the first edition of Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie? President McKay was shocked & embarrassed by 'doctrine' put forth in that book.

Should have been called "False Doctrine". In fact according to the First Presidency review there were 1067 doctrinal errors in there (though I suspect there were probably more)

On the whole though, it was an excellent resource in it's day.

Yeah there's some good stuff in there, don't get me wrong, but also plenty of Bruce's opinions

[Robin Hood]

Are we still supposed to uphold some of the more egregious notions put forth in the first edition of Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie? President McKay was shocked & embarrassed by 'doctrine' put forth in that book.

Should have been called "False Doctrine". In fact according to the First Presidency review there were 1067 doctrinal errors in there (though I suspect there were probably more)

On the whole though, it was an excellent resource in it's day.

Yeah there's some good stuff in there, don't get me wrong, but also plenty of Bruce's opinions

On a forum absolutely brimming with opinions, what's wrong with that?
I would also point out that McConkie was not an apostle when he published the book. It was published in 1958, but he wasn't ordained until 1972.

[Luke]

Should have been called "False Doctrine". In fact according to the First Presidency review there were 1067 doctrinal errors in there (though I suspect there were probably more)

On the whole though, it was an excellent resource in it's day.

Yeah there's some good stuff in there, don't get me wrong, but also plenty of Bruce's opinions

On a forum absolutely brimming with opinions, what's wrong with that?

Because I'm not publishing my opinions to the world and calling it "Mormon Doctrine", trying to make it out to be eternal truth

[Allison]

Yes, and yet Elder Oaks said not so much!

It would be helpful if you could provide an actual quote.

From Trust in the Lord, October 2019:

“As to all of these, the wise cautions of Elders D. Todd Christofferson and Neil L. Andersen in earlier general conference messages are important to remember. Elder Christofferson taught: ‘It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church.’5

“In the following conference, Elder Andersen taught this principle: ‘The doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk.’6 The family proclamation, signed by all 15 prophets, seers, and revelators, is a wonderful illustration of that principle.

“Beyond something as formal as the family proclamation, the prophetic teachings of the Presidents of the Church, affirmed by other prophets and apostles, are also an example of this.”

You’re countering Elder Packer’s “FOLLOW THE BRETHREN” statements with another “follow the brethren” statement?

It’s not follow the Brethren. It’s take what we say with a grain of salt unless it’s signed by all 15. Do you think we should discount those few pronouncements? If so, which? The Living Christ? The Family? The latest one on the Restoration? What’s wrong with them, exactly?

[Robin Hood]

On the whole though, it was an excellent resource in it's day.

Yeah there's some good stuff in there, don't get me wrong, but also plenty of Bruce's opinions

On a forum absolutely brimming with opinions, what's wrong with that?

Because I'm not publishing my opinions to the world and calling it "Mormon Doctrine", trying to make it out to be eternal truth

Do we take it that you've now shelved your book idea then?