The brethren will get the vaccine as soon as possible

[Juliet]

Elder Uchtdorf oversees the Missionary Department. It would make sense for him to answer these things as he did.

He is correct. We live in 2021 now, not the 1800s. The things that we know now about science supercede that which we knew in the 1800s.

He did say that it would not be a policy, and the masks are not a general policy, but there are areas where masks are required and the Church stipulates obeying the local laws. If a vaccine becomes required, the Church likewise will counsel members to take the vaccine wherever it is required. This is actually the policy on missionary work: If you are called to an area where a vaccine or vaccines are required, and you refuse to take them, you will not go to that area on your mission, and will more than likely serve domestically.

In my area, masks will be required to go back to sacrament meeting at the local chapel...along with a temperature check and rubbing your shoes on a mat laced with disinfectant...because this is the local law. If you are coughing or exhibit a temperature more than 99.5F (37.5C) you will NOT be allowed inside. These are procedures that are being followed in literally EVERY business and place that has a large amount of traffic inside in the area where I reside.

Kind of surprising that we have on this board those that would replicate the sins of the Khawarij, the forerunners to the Wahhabi movement, then try to force that interpretation on the LDS Church today, but of course from a Mormon standpoint instead of an Islamic standpoint.

Yeah don't tell me they don't read. They know this is an abomination. The scriptures warn us you won't buy or sell without it. They know full well who their master is. You can't serve God and Mammon.

Every year something different is theorized as the Mark of the Beast. Would you have them tilt at every windmill?

Its the boy who cried wolf isn't it. It is up to you to discern the seasons. From what I have read, the concept of receiving a transcription injection so my cells are manufacturing proteins based on foreign RNA speaks for itself. I have an inherit belief that my physical body is created in the image of God. I don't believe we should have anything to do with gene modification. I don't think we should touch that kind of technology. What a way to shove a fist in God's eyes. History shows what Bayer Monsanto does to genetically modified seeds. They say they are now legally their seeds. Anyone caught with a gmo seed in their farm even if it floated over by wind to it can be sued. Imagine if they do that to seeds what will they do to people? It is the mark of the beast any way you look at it. There is no way it can't be the mark of the beast. Excepting that I am sure that there will need to be a bio-identification marker to go along with it so you can't cheat and say you got it when you didn't.

Daniel 12 I believe may be relevant here.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

[Pazooka]

Total lack of integrity. I’m relieved I don’t feel the need to find excuses anymore for why the Brethren would act in such a disgusting way. They don’t possess secret knowledge from God directing them to lead the people of the Church into Hell through the practice of idolatry, ultimately leading to accepting the mark of the beast - - I’m sure that when the mark is presented, they will herald it, too, as an answer to prayer. And maybe it will be - - we receive according to the desires of our hearts.

It seems they are just like Isaiah said, Sleeping Dogs. They don't even know what they don't know. I think, in their hearts, they mean well, but they are not on the reality page. They are completely misinformed by mainstream media. This explains most everything that we see that doesn't make sense. They believe lies. They don't see danger, just like Isaiah said they wouldn't bark, but sleep..

I really wonder how God's correction will go down.

I pray for His correction to come, on almost a daily basis. At this point, I am willing to undergo whatever personal pain is necessary for the filth the be wiped clean...it is that hard to watch.

[mahalanobis]

Missionaries must vaccinate. That stinks, but not a surprise.

It's a little comforting that it's not going to be a policy to make all members vaccinate. He said it would be an individual decision.

But on the other hand, he says the church stance on vaccines will be "just like the masks". ... Um, they ARE forcing the masks, for temples and chapels at least.

So which is it? Is it our decision? Or will we need to present vaccination records to worship maskless in chapels and temples?

He also said it will keep spreading until we all get it (the vaccine). So it seems they're 100% on board.

If they say "let local leaders decide, according to whatever regulations exist in each region" then it will be forced vaccinations for the lot of us.

Consider: many blue states have currently decreed that you cannot gather for church in groups larger than 20 people. That will soon change to: you can gather in larger groups if you present vaccination records upon entry. Stake presidencies are already conditioned to comply with the edicts of "the state".

That is defacto forced vaccinations. Because you're denying freedom of assembly and freedom of association.

The church leaders need to stand up and say no on principle. Stake presidencies need to push back. It's 4 words: "Freedom, or release me." It's the war in heaven, continued here. Make the church choose freedom or ... another plan. You can guess who authored that "other plan".

[Pazooka]

Elder Uchtdorf oversees the Missionary Department. It would make sense for him to answer these things as he did.

He is correct. We live in 2021 now, not the 1800s. The things that we know now about science supercede that which we knew in the 1800s.

He did say that it would not be a policy, and the masks are not a general policy, but there are areas where masks are required and the Church stipulates obeying the local laws. If a vaccine becomes required, the Church likewise will counsel members to take the vaccine wherever it is required. This is actually the policy on missionary work: If you are called to an area where a vaccine or vaccines are required, and you refuse to take them, you will not go to that area on your mission, and will more than likely serve domestically.

In my area, masks will be required to go back to sacrament meeting at the local chapel...along with a temperature check and rubbing your shoes on a mat laced with disinfectant...because this is the local law. If you are coughing or exhibit a temperature more than 99.5F (37.5C) you will NOT be allowed inside. These are procedures that are being followed in literally EVERY business and place that has a large amount of traffic inside in the area where I reside.

Kind of surprising that we have on this board those that would replicate the sins of the Khawarij, the forerunners to the Wahhabi movement, then try to force that interpretation on the LDS Church today, but of course from a Mormon standpoint instead of an Islamic standpoint.

Yeah don't tell me they don't read. They know this is an abomination. The scriptures warn us you won't buy or sell without it. They know full well who their master is. You can't serve God and Mammon.

Every year something different is theorized as the Mark of the Beast. Would you have them tilt at every windmill?

Its the boy who cried wolf isn't it. It is up to you to discern the seasons. From what I have read, the concept of receiving a transcription injection so my cells are manufacturing proteins based on foreign RNA speaks for itself. I have an inherit belief that my physical body is created in the image of God. I don't believe we should have anything to do with gene modification. I don't think we should touch that kind of technology. What a way to shove a fist in God's eyes. History shows what Bayer Monsanto does to genetically modified seeds. They say they are now legally their seeds. Anyone caught with a gmo seed in their farm even if it floated over by wind to it can be sued. Imagine if they do that to seeds what will they do to people? It is the mark of the beast any way you look at it. There is no way it can't be the mark of the beast. Excepting that I am sure that there will need to be a bio-identification marker to go along with it so you can't cheat and say you got it when you didn't.

Daniel 12 I believe may be relevant here.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

I agree that this has the potential to be the MotB. I’m just waiting to see if it really will come down to not being able to buy or sell without it. If this particular round of VCs isn’t the mark....I’m sure it’ll follow shortly.

[Alexander]

Same video as the one in my OP, different channel. Take a look at the comments.

https://youtu.be/nL94dGsZqh8

[Allison]

I like what he said and agree, my Judgment Day interview will be with Him, and not any other church leaders, as much as we appreciate all of the good they try to do.

And they are in tune enough to constantly emphasize Personal Revelation!

I think they mean well. A good friend is a daughter-in-law of one of the 15. He voted for Trump and believes Trump is trying to take out the Deep State, though he has been labeled a democrat in this forum. He is not.

Yet my friend who knows all about basically all of the conspiracies and that Covid is a hoax, won’t take the vaccine, etc., says forthrightly that she knows things that he doesn’t know. Yet she is also too respectful to push what she knows onto him. Her husband (his son) believed a lot of what her research uncovered, but some stuff (pedovores) was too much for him to believe until a psychologist friend of theirs brought it up and confirmed it. So even his son gets it now but is very respectful and not apt to steady the ark.

That member of the 15 also has a grandson who is involved in an anti-mask and anti-lockdown group. That GA seems to be *gradually* becoming more aware of things.

Then though, he has to interface with the other 14, and my friend said some of those meetings can be rather raucous, as they are all men of strong opinion and conviction, but they are good at staying friends and not getting personal. My friend says that when they act as a united body, they have really gone through a rigorous process to get to that point.

Just for what it’s worth.

We should really be praying for them all.

[Pazooka]

I like what he said and agree, my Judgment Day interview will be with Him, and not any other church leaders, as much as we appreciate all of the good they try to do.

And they are in tune enough to constantly emphasize Personal Revelation!

I think they mean well. A good friend is a daughter-in-law of one of the 15. He voted for Trump and believes Trump is trying to take out the Deep State, though he has been labeled a democrat in this forum. He is not.

Yet my friend who knows all about basically all of the conspiracies and that Covid is a hoax, won’t take the vaccine, etc., says forthrightly that she knows things that he doesn’t know. Yet she is also too respectful to push what she knows onto him. Her husband (his son) believed a lot of what her research uncovered, but some stuff (pedovores) was too much for him to believe until a psychologist friend of theirs brought it up and confirmed it. So even his son gets it now but is very respectful and not apt to steady the ark.

That member of the 15 also has a grandson who is involved in an anti-mask and anti-lockdown group. That GA seems to be *gradually* becoming more aware of things.

Then though, he has to interface with the other 14, and my friend said some of those meetings can be rather raucous, as they are all men of strong opinion and conviction, but they are good at staying friends and not getting personal. My friend says that when they act as a united body, they have really gone through a rigorous process to get to that point.

Just for what it’s worth.

We should really be praying for them all.

None of this is the least bit encouraging. So one of the 15 might come around because their more awake posterity might influence him for the better?

[Sunain]

I think the even more concerning issue here is that this video is technically only available to the leadership of the church. They need to stop with limiting access to church resources. If the mantra that the church pushes is true and that the youth today are the future leaders of the church, then they need to start their leadership training now regardless of their current position!

[Allison]

I like what he said and agree, my Judgment Day interview will be with Him, and not any other church leaders, as much as we appreciate all of the good they try to do.

And they are in tune enough to constantly emphasize Personal Revelation!

I think they mean well. A good friend is a daughter-in-law of one of the 15. He voted for Trump and believes Trump is trying to take out the Deep State, though he has been labeled a democrat in this forum. He is not.

Yet my friend who knows all about basically all of the conspiracies and that Covid is a hoax, won’t take the vaccine, etc., says forthrightly that she knows things that he doesn’t know. Yet she is also too respectful to push what she knows onto him. Her husband (his son) believed a lot of what her research uncovered, but some stuff (pedovores) was too much for him to believe until a psychologist friend of theirs brought it up and confirmed it. So even his son gets it now but is very respectful and not apt to steady the ark.

That member of the 15 also has a grandson who is involved in an anti-mask and anti-lockdown group. That GA seems to be *gradually* becoming more aware of things.

Then though, he has to interface with the other 14, and my friend said some of those meetings can be rather raucous, as they are all men of strong opinion and conviction, but they are good at staying friends and not getting personal. My friend says that when they act as a united body, they have really gone through a rigorous process to get to that point.

Just for what it’s worth.

We should really be praying for them all.

None of this is the least bit encouraging. So one of the 15 might come around because their more awake posterity might influence him for the better?

I can only speak about one of them. That doesn’t mean he is the only one. People here have called him a Democrat and my point is that we have less real insight into their minds than we think we do with the little scraps of information we use to extrapolate our “conclusions.”

And what do you want me to tell you, that they are all omniscient? All I can say is that one of them (and he is not in the shadows), is honest in heart and seems to be on a learning track. Isn’t that better than being subversive, as some suggest?

[Chip]

I like what he said and agree, my Judgment Day interview will be with Him, and not any other church leaders, as much as we appreciate all of the good they try to do.

And they are in tune enough to constantly emphasize Personal Revelation!

I think they mean well. A good friend is a daughter-in-law of one of the 15. He voted for Trump and believes Trump is trying to take out the Deep State, though he has been labeled a democrat in this forum. He is not.

Yet my friend who knows all about basically all of the conspiracies and that Covid is a hoax, won’t take the vaccine, etc., says forthrightly that she knows things that he doesn’t know. Yet she is also too respectful to push what she knows onto him. Her husband (his son) believed a lot of what her research uncovered, but some stuff (pedovores) was too much for him to believe until a psychologist friend of theirs brought it up and confirmed it. So even his son gets it now but is very respectful and not apt to steady the ark.

That member of the 15 also has a grandson who is involved in an anti-mask and anti-lockdown group. That GA seems to be *gradually* becoming more aware of things.

Then though, he has to interface with the other 14, and my friend said some of those meetings can be rather raucous, as they are all men of strong opinion and conviction, but they are good at staying friends and not getting personal. My friend says that when they act as a united body, they have really gone through a rigorous process to get to that point.

Just for what it’s worth.

We should really be praying for them all.

Thanks for this report, Allison. It makes me realize (again) that these men are NOT prophets. They don't even know the time of day, in a sense. They are sitting in a gilded cage, getting news from the NYT and WSJ, oblivious to the big picture that the peons are well-aware of, and we are supposing that if we could just educate them, there would be a turn-around. The thing is, why hasn't God told them anything about any of this? We should be learning from them, not hoping for some improvement by us getting through to them with some idea. Save your own family's life by ceasing to depend on such people for ANYTHING, because they don't have it, and at this late stage, probably aren't going to get it. That they have us revere them as prophets is just damnable.

[Allison]

I like what he said and agree, my Judgment Day interview will be with Him, and not any other church leaders, as much as we appreciate all of the good they try to do.

And they are in tune enough to constantly emphasize Personal Revelation!

I think they mean well. A good friend is a daughter-in-law of one of the 15. He voted for Trump and believes Trump is trying to take out the Deep State, though he has been labeled a democrat in this forum. He is not.

Yet my friend who knows all about basically all of the conspiracies and that Covid is a hoax, won’t take the vaccine, etc., says forthrightly that she knows things that he doesn’t know. Yet she is also too respectful to push what she knows onto him. Her husband (his son) believed a lot of what her research uncovered, but some stuff (pedovores) was too much for him to believe until a psychologist friend of theirs brought it up and confirmed it. So even his son gets it now but is very respectful and not apt to steady the ark.

That member of the 15 also has a grandson who is involved in an anti-mask and anti-lockdown group. That GA seems to be *gradually* becoming more aware of things.

Then though, he has to interface with the other 14, and my friend said some of those meetings can be rather raucous, as they are all men of strong opinion and conviction, but they are good at staying friends and not getting personal. My friend says that when they act as a united body, they have really gone through a rigorous process to get to that point.

Just for what it’s worth.

We should really be praying for them all.

Thanks for this report, Allison. It makes me realize (again) that these men are NOT prophets. They don't even know the time of day, in a sense. They are sitting in a gilded cage, getting news from the NYT and WSJ, oblivious to the big picture that the peons are well-aware of, and we are supposing that if we could just educate them, there would be a turn-around. The thing is, why hasn't God told them anything about any of this? We should be learning from them, not hoping for some improvement by us getting through to them with some idea. Save your own family's life by ceasing to depend on such people for ANYTHING, because they don't have it, and at this late stage, probably aren't going to get it. That they have us revere them as prophets is just damnable.

Not sure they want us to revere them, nor that they pretend to have all of the answers. Did they claim to be walking crystal balls who have the final word on all topics? Why can we not be okay with knowing that we know more than they do on some topics, even important topics? Maybe they would benefit from a courteous letter or flurry of well-spoken, professionally written letters.

[Robin Hood]

They've required vaccination for missionaries for years now so I'm not sure how this is surprising to anyone

Side note: I didn't get them, they still let me go, and didn't say a thing about it.

They said I wouldn't have been able to serve a mission overseas, if I hadn't taken the vaccines. They said if I refused them, I'd go stateside. So I took them. Big mistake. I spoke elsewhere of my vaccine injuries. Did you serve a mission overseas without getting vaccines? If so, how?

I'm sorry to hear that.
I have a daughter who I firmly believe was vaccine damaged. But I can't prove it.
She is autistic.

[BeNotDeceived]

To make a wonderful airplane analogy, wouldn't that be like a passenger in the economy section trying to alert someone who is in the cockpit, wearing a captain's uniform, that a missile is incoming, but the radar has been switched off and there is a policy that the radar not be turned back on?

Sounds like a great synopsis for a story about the Davidic Servant arriving on the seen, and getting short shrift. Perhaps an outline is more appropriate for submitting works of non-fiction. And I thought True Stories, the movie was a weird deal. Weird deal squared, is that it stars a guy named David, that drives a DS.

[BeNotDeceived]

Not sure they want us to revere them, nor that they pretend to have all of the answers. Did they claim to be walking crystal balls who have the final word on all topics? Why can we not be okay with knowing that we know more than they do on some topics, even important topics? Maybe they would benefit from a courteous letter or flurry of well-spoken, professionally written letters.

They’re the ones putting their lives at risk for what they likely believe is for the greater good. Perhaps we should show a little appreciation. Then again their not of child bearing age, which makes a ginormous difference.

Difference, but not Ginormous. dbnp

[Pazooka]

I like what he said and agree, my Judgment Day interview will be with Him, and not any other church leaders, as much as we appreciate all of the good they try to do.

And they are in tune enough to constantly emphasize Personal Revelation!

I think they mean well. A good friend is a daughter-in-law of one of the 15. He voted for Trump and believes Trump is trying to take out the Deep State, though he has been labeled a democrat in this forum. He is not.

Yet my friend who knows all about basically all of the conspiracies and that Covid is a hoax, won’t take the vaccine, etc., says forthrightly that she knows things that he doesn’t know. Yet she is also too respectful to push what she knows onto him. Her husband (his son) believed a lot of what her research uncovered, but some stuff (pedovores) was too much for him to believe until a psychologist friend of theirs brought it up and confirmed it. So even his son gets it now but is very respectful and not apt to steady the ark.

That member of the 15 also has a grandson who is involved in an anti-mask and anti-lockdown group. That GA seems to be *gradually* becoming more aware of things.

Then though, he has to interface with the other 14, and my friend said some of those meetings can be rather raucous, as they are all men of strong opinion and conviction, but they are good at staying friends and not getting personal. My friend says that when they act as a united body, they have really gone through a rigorous process to get to that point.

Just for what it’s worth.

We should really be praying for them all.

Thanks for this report, Allison. It makes me realize (again) that these men are NOT prophets. They don't even know the time of day, in a sense. They are sitting in a gilded cage, getting news from the NYT and WSJ, oblivious to the big picture that the peons are well-aware of, and we are supposing that if we could just educate them, there would be a turn-around. The thing is, why hasn't God told them anything about any of this? We should be learning from them, not hoping for some improvement by us getting through to them with some idea. Save your own family's life by ceasing to depend on such people for ANYTHING, because they don't have it, and at this late stage, probably aren't going to get it. That they have us revere them as prophets is just damnable.

Not sure they want us to revere them, nor that they pretend to have all of the answers. Did they claim to be walking crystal balls who have the final word on all topics? Why can we not be okay with knowing that we know more than they do on some topics, even important topics? Maybe they would benefit from a courteous letter or flurry of well-spoken, professionally written letters.

I spent 10 seconds finding this statement from Boyd K Packer (1979). Do you know how many similar statements I could have drummed up in a whole minute?

The whole burden of my message can be said in three simple words: FOLLOW THE BRETHREN. Though I may elaborate and attempt to illustrate and emphasize, there is the fact, the disarmingly simple fact, that in the three words, FOLLOW THE BRETHREN, rests the most important counsel that I could give to you.

[JohnnyL]

But neither was Ammonihah the gathering place of Israel, with billions in real estate, farms for the poor, or land of the leaders. Maybe the Holy Spirit is telling them to do as they are doing--at least that's my hope.

It could be far more complex than any of us realize, what the Brethren are confronted with behind the scenes, and cannot openly discuss.

But with all of that, and their mask-wearing, President Nelson never stops imploring each of us to Hear Him (Christ). There is a wonderful new article out on the Church web site about growing into the principle of revelation.

I honestly believe he is trying to get us to tune in to where all of the answers really are. I think he is saying that if there is any discrepancy between official church policy and the whisperings of the Spirit, to go with the Spirit every time.

It could be that the anti-mask and anti-vaxx movement needs to be a true grassroots movement. It’s hard to judge a Prophet whose primary message to the members is to be prophets themselves. That is not what a man who is trying to mislead people would say.

IDK...

When an abusive man hits his wife but also tells her he loves her... It could be true, but what's more important to the woman?

"Get your own revelation............about me "

I don't think the 15 are trying to be deceptive and whatnot.... I believe they, along with they're parents & predecessors, are deceived themselves.

Our history, our theology, etc...all lead to a conclusion that :

they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

You’re right, it could be exactly that, and they might not yet know the right questions to ask. And yet the one thing coming through loud and clear is to teach and teach and teach us to get our own revelation. Thank Heaven for that!

A flurry of letters just might get their attention, as well as a noticeable number of missionaries going home rather than taking the vaccine.

Maybe they don’t know where to begin to research our side of the vaccine question. Maybe they could use some powerful information, given respectfully and with kindness and love.

I'm pretty sure one didn't even bother to look when sent to him--it was passed straight on; it seems the missionary vaccine policy was basically set by MD's working for the Church.

Perhaps now a flurry of letters WOULD be helpful, lol.

[Chip]

I like what he said and agree, my Judgment Day interview will be with Him, and not any other church leaders, as much as we appreciate all of the good they try to do.

And they are in tune enough to constantly emphasize Personal Revelation!

I think they mean well. A good friend is a daughter-in-law of one of the 15. He voted for Trump and believes Trump is trying to take out the Deep State, though he has been labeled a democrat in this forum. He is not.

Yet my friend who knows all about basically all of the conspiracies and that Covid is a hoax, won’t take the vaccine, etc., says forthrightly that she knows things that he doesn’t know. Yet she is also too respectful to push what she knows onto him. Her husband (his son) believed a lot of what her research uncovered, but some stuff (pedovores) was too much for him to believe until a psychologist friend of theirs brought it up and confirmed it. So even his son gets it now but is very respectful and not apt to steady the ark.

That member of the 15 also has a grandson who is involved in an anti-mask and anti-lockdown group. That GA seems to be *gradually* becoming more aware of things.

Then though, he has to interface with the other 14, and my friend said some of those meetings can be rather raucous, as they are all men of strong opinion and conviction, but they are good at staying friends and not getting personal. My friend says that when they act as a united body, they have really gone through a rigorous process to get to that point.

Just for what it’s worth.

We should really be praying for them all.

Thanks for this report, Allison. It makes me realize (again) that these men are NOT prophets. They don't even know the time of day, in a sense. They are sitting in a gilded cage, getting news from the NYT and WSJ, oblivious to the big picture that the peons are well-aware of, and we are supposing that if we could just educate them, there would be a turn-around. The thing is, why hasn't God told them anything about any of this? We should be learning from them, not hoping for some improvement by us getting through to them with some idea. Save your own family's life by ceasing to depend on such people for ANYTHING, because they don't have it, and at this late stage, probably aren't going to get it. That they have us revere them as prophets is just damnable.

Not sure they want us to revere them, nor that they pretend to have all of the answers. Did they claim to be walking crystal balls who have the final word on all topics? Why can we not be okay with knowing that we know more than they do on some topics, even important topics? Maybe they would benefit from a courteous letter or flurry of well-spoken, professionally written letters.

But why would prophets need professionally-written letters to learn about what is going on? The YouTube prophets all know what is going on because they actually want to know. That would be funny to write letters to all the YouTube prophets, encouraging them to be more professional. They could wear suits, improve their grooming, and talk more like lawyers. Our prophets are administrators.

[SmallFarm]

"know what's going on" what a loaded statement colored by perception

[JohnnyL]

Missionaries must vaccinate. That stinks, but not a surprise.

It's a little comforting that it's not going to be a policy to make all members vaccinate. He said it would be an individual decision.

But on the other hand, he says the church stance on vaccines will be "just like the masks". ... Um, they ARE forcing the masks, for temples and chapels at least.

So which is it? Is it our decision? Or will we need to present vaccination records to worship maskless in chapels and temples?

He also said it will keep spreading until we all get it (the vaccine). So it seems they're 100% on board.

Missionaries are not required to vaccinate, and haven't been, at least for a while. The Church just never told anyone that unless specifically asked, lol, and I guess it was rare someone asked, because it said on the form, "required."

Good questions about whose decision.

[Silver Pie]

They've required vaccination for missionaries for years now so I'm not sure how this is surprising to anyone

Side note: I didn't get them, they still let me go, and didn't say a thing about it.

The doctor I went to for my physical said I didn't need one of the vaccines the Church required because I was going stateside, so he didn't give it to me. In the MTC, they told me I had to have it. At the time I was ignorant of my actual rights.

Years and years later, an older couple I know applied to go on a mission. When the Church said they had to have vaccines, the husband said, "Then we won't go." The wife threw a tearful fit on the phone to someone in the missionary department (she was the one who related the story to me). The Church relented and they went on their mission sans vaccines. I don't know if it was the tears of the woman who really wanted to go or the threat of "We won't go. End of subject," that made that happen.

[Silver Pie]

Did you notice his body language? He was uncomfortable.

Yes. As soon as he started talking about them getting vaccinated iirc.

[Chip]

"know what's going on" what a loaded statement colored by perception

Sounds like you're quite in-step with the brethren, yourself.

[Silver Pie]

In my area, masks will be required to go back to sacrament meeting at the local chapel...along with a temperature check and rubbing your shoes on a mat laced with disinfectant...because this is the local law. If you are coughing or exhibit a temperature more than 99.5F (37.5C) you will NOT be allowed inside. These are procedures that are being followed in literally EVERY business and place that has a large amount of traffic inside in the area where I reside.

I am SO glad I do not live in Mexico right now.

[InfoWarrior82]

Maybe they would benefit from a courteous letter or flurry of well-spoken, professionally written letters.

I know you know that you were not the first one to think of this and even the 28492247th person to think of this. It's been attempted many many many times. Do you truly think that they will all of a sudden listen now because someone somewhere will have a special way with words that others did not?

[Allison]

I like what he said and agree, my Judgment Day interview will be with Him, and not any other church leaders, as much as we appreciate all of the good they try to do.

And they are in tune enough to constantly emphasize Personal Revelation!

I think they mean well. A good friend is a daughter-in-law of one of the 15. He voted for Trump and believes Trump is trying to take out the Deep State, though he has been labeled a democrat in this forum. He is not.

Yet my friend who knows all about basically all of the conspiracies and that Covid is a hoax, won’t take the vaccine, etc., says forthrightly that she knows things that he doesn’t know. Yet she is also too respectful to push what she knows onto him. Her husband (his son) believed a lot of what her research uncovered, but some stuff (pedovores) was too much for him to believe until a psychologist friend of theirs brought it up and confirmed it. So even his son gets it now but is very respectful and not apt to steady the ark.

That member of the 15 also has a grandson who is involved in an anti-mask and anti-lockdown group. That GA seems to be *gradually* becoming more aware of things.

Then though, he has to interface with the other 14, and my friend said some of those meetings can be rather raucous, as they are all men of strong opinion and conviction, but they are good at staying friends and not getting personal. My friend says that when they act as a united body, they have really gone through a rigorous process to get to that point.

Just for what it’s worth.

We should really be praying for them all.

Thanks for this report, Allison. It makes me realize (again) that these men are NOT prophets. They don't even know the time of day, in a sense. They are sitting in a gilded cage, getting news from the NYT and WSJ, oblivious to the big picture that the peons are well-aware of, and we are supposing that if we could just educate them, there would be a turn-around. The thing is, why hasn't God told them anything about any of this? We should be learning from them, not hoping for some improvement by us getting through to them with some idea. Save your own family's life by ceasing to depend on such people for ANYTHING, because they don't have it, and at this late stage, probably aren't going to get it. That they have us revere them as prophets is just damnable.

Not sure they want us to revere them, nor that they pretend to have all of the answers. Did they claim to be walking crystal balls who have the final word on all topics? Why can we not be okay with knowing that we know more than they do on some topics, even important topics? Maybe they would benefit from a courteous letter or flurry of well-spoken, professionally written letters.

I spent 10 seconds finding this statement from Boyd K Packer (1979). Do you know how many similar statements I could have drummed up in a whole minute?

The whole burden of my message can be said in three simple words: FOLLOW THE BRETHREN. Though I may elaborate and attempt to illustrate and emphasize, there is the fact, the disarmingly simple fact, that in the three words, FOLLOW THE BRETHREN, rests the most important counsel that I could give to you.

Yes, and yet Elder Oaks said not so much!