What do you suppose is the role of the one referred to as the marred or Davidic Servant, in relation to the function and

[Being There]

this is not about the Davidic servant,
It's about who or what is the Holy Ghost; which I believe is
that it's simply Christ's spirit, as these scriptures say it is.

If you don't believe the Holy Ghost is Christ, Christ's spirit - how do you account for these scriptures
and all the others I've posted.

2 Nephi 32
3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear MY VOICE, and open the door, I WILL COME IN TO HIM, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Revelation 3:20)

So the 'Spirit' speaking in Revelation was Jesus Christ Himself
-------------------
Matthew 18:20 ...'For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.'

John 14:16-20 ...'And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.'

Acts 1:1-2 ...'The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, until the day in which he was taken up, after that
HE through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen.'

"Now, many people look at this 'comforter' quote in John above and just automatically think that Jesus was talking about sending someone else. And yet Jesus reveals in these verses exactly who the comforter was going to be.
Jesus told the disciples that they knew the comforter, because He was actually with them in physical form. Who was with them? Christ Himself! Jesus told the disciples that He would not leave us comfortless,
HE would come to us HIMSELF!
And Jesus also confirmed that HE would be the one inside us,
not someone else!

[Being There]

how do you resolve this below -
and who the Holy Ghost really is -
about the Holy Ghost being someone other than the Lord's spirit.

This one scripture lays to waste the hundreds of pages posted
saying the Holy Ghost is someone else.
There's nothing else to say - the scriptures speak for themselves.

"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore,
they speak the words of Christ.
Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ;
for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
(and who guides you and teaches you, and "tells you all things what ye should do" ?
The Holy Ghost - The Lord's spirit)
2 Nephi 32




Doctrine and Covenants
Section 36
2 And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon,
and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;


John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

[ransomme]

how do you resolve this below -
and who the Holy Ghost really is -
about the Holy Ghost being someone other than the Lord's spirit.

This one scripture lays to waste the hundreds of pages posted
saying the Holy Ghost is someone else.
There's nothing else to say - the scriptures speak for themselves.

"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore,
they speak the words of Christ.
Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ;
for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
(and who guides you and teaches you, and "tells you all things what ye should do" ?
The Holy Ghost - The Lord's spirit)
2 Nephi 32




Doctrine and Covenants
Section 36
2 And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon,
and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;


John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Are you saying that the bother of Jared saw the Holy Spirit?

Is this a Trinity thing?

How does the redirected Lord send His own Spirit out of His body? Or is it some other type of manifestation? Just trying to understand your concept.

[Bronco73idi]

how do you resolve this below -
and who the Holy Ghost really is -
about the Holy Ghost being someone other than the Lord's spirit.

This one scripture lays to waste the hundreds of pages posted
saying the Holy Ghost is someone else.
There's nothing else to say - the scriptures speak for themselves.

"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore,
they speak the words of Christ.
Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ;
for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
(and who guides you and teaches you, and "tells you all things what ye should do" ?
The Holy Ghost - The Lord's spirit)
2 Nephi 32




Doctrine and Covenants
Section 36
2 And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon,
and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;


John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Are you saying that the bother of Jared saw the Holy Spirit?

Is this a Trinity thing?

How does the redirected Lord send His own Spirit out of His body? Or is it some other type of manifestation? Just trying to understand your concept.

I’m just spit balling, the lord’s apostles did not receive the Holy Ghost until 10 days after the lord’s ascension, what does that mean or why?

[ransomme]

how do you resolve this below -
and who the Holy Ghost really is -
about the Holy Ghost being someone other than the Lord's spirit.

This one scripture lays to waste the hundreds of pages posted
saying the Holy Ghost is someone else.
There's nothing else to say - the scriptures speak for themselves.

"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore,
they speak the words of Christ.
Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ;
for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
(and who guides you and teaches you, and "tells you all things what ye should do" ?
The Holy Ghost - The Lord's spirit)
2 Nephi 32




Doctrine and Covenants
Section 36
2 And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon,
and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;


John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Are you saying that the bother of Jared saw the Holy Spirit?

Is this a Trinity thing?

How does the redirected Lord send His own Spirit out of His body? Or is it some other type of manifestation? Just trying to understand your concept.

I’m just spit balling, the lord’s apostles did not receive the Holy Ghost until 10 days after the lord’s ascension, what does that mean or why?

Of course, because that was the moed, or appointed time.

It's also not a proof for the idea of the Holy Spirit being Jesus actual spirit.

How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?

So did He receive the Holy Ghost (His Spirit) in the womb or not until after His baptism (which is the order or the Word of God)?

Personally I think Being There's interpretation on this is not truth.

[Bronco73idi]

Are you saying that the bother of Jared saw the Holy Spirit?

Is this a Trinity thing?

How does the redirected Lord send His own Spirit out of His body? Or is it some other type of manifestation? Just trying to understand your concept.

I’m just spit balling, the lord’s apostles did not receive the Holy Ghost until 10 days after the lord’s ascension, what does that mean or why?

Of course, because that was the moed, or appointed time.

It's also not a proof for the idea of the Holy Spirit being Jesus actual spirit.

How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?

So did He receive the Holy Ghost (His Spirit) in the womb or not until after His baptism (which is the order or the Word of God)?

Personally I think Being There's interpretation on this is not truth.

“How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?”

What Biblical scripture reference says baptism by fire was for anyone before the Lord’s ascension? We know that his apostles did not have the gift of the Holy Ghost until after his ascension.

We know Jeremiah was prophesying in the womb, before he took on the Everlasting Covenant. The story of Jeremiah tells us we are not all equal.

I’m not siding with anyone here, these are just things I think about.

[ransomme]

I’m just spit balling, the lord’s apostles did not receive the Holy Ghost until 10 days after the lord’s ascension, what does that mean or why?

Of course, because that was the moed, or appointed time.

It's also not a proof for the idea of the Holy Spirit being Jesus actual spirit.

How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?

So did He receive the Holy Ghost (His Spirit) in the womb or not until after His baptism (which is the order or the Word of God)?

Personally I think Being There's interpretation on this is not truth.

“How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?”

What Biblical scripture reference says baptism by fire was for anyone before the Lord’s ascension? We know that his apostles did not have the gift of the Holy Ghost until after his ascension.

We know Jeremiah was prophesying in the womb, before he took on the Everlasting Covenant. The story of Jeremiah tells us we are not all equal.

I’m not siding with anyone here, these are just things I think about.

Others did from Adam (Moses 6) to the Messiah.

[An Eye Single]

I’m just spit balling, the lord’s apostles did not receive the Holy Ghost until 10 days after the lord’s ascension, what does that mean or why?

Of course, because that was the moed, or appointed time.

It's also not a proof for the idea of the Holy Spirit being Jesus actual spirit.

How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?

So did He receive the Holy Ghost (His Spirit) in the womb or not until after His baptism (which is the order or the Word of God)?

Personally I think Being There's interpretation on this is not truth.

“How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?”

What Biblical scripture reference says baptism by fire was for anyone before the Lord’s ascension? We know that his apostles did not have the gift of the Holy Ghost until after his ascension.

We know Jeremiah was prophesying in the womb, before he took on the Everlasting Covenant. The story of Jeremiah tells us we are not all equal.

I’m not siding with anyone here, these are just things I think about.

The idea that the gift of the Holy Ghost was not available to people before Christ’s ascension is incorrect. I posted this on another thread, but I’ll post it here, too, because I think that it would clear up some common misconceptions about the availability of the Holy Ghost throughout history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD02qIKzCg4

[jonesde]

Joseph Smith taught false doctrine about the Holy Ghost

Post by I AM » July 18th, 2018, 12:48 pm
viewtopic.php?p=871446&hilit=holy+ghost#p871446

They all can't be right.
So who is right - the Bible, the Book of Mormon, or Joseph Smith ?
you decide by the scriptures below.

The content of that post claiming to be what the Bible says does not seem to be what it says at all, but rather misinterpretations of the Bible. This is the purpose of the Book of Mormon and the revelations given to Joseph Smith in the Doctrine & Covenants: to clarify misconceptions and misinterpretations of the Bible. The literal text of the Bible is rarely at fault (even the KJV which is full of errors, changes, moving text, and removing text), but the interpretations of these by the understanding of men do cause great confusion, and contention.

The position of the The Church of Jesus Christ is clear: the Book of Mormon and the words of the prophets supplement and correct the literal text of the Bible, and even moreso the incorrect interpretations of the Bible made without greater light and inspiration.

I find this quote from President Young inspired: "It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost." --JD 1:51, Brigham Young, April 9, 1852 This reveals that the Michael (who became Adam) is represented in the Deity as the Holy Ghost. Besides, it is revealed in revelation (2BC 23) that Adam did take upon himself the office of the Holy Ghost when he died."

This quote, and the Adam/God theories it inspired by the misunderstanding of those who chose to interpret it beyond what it says, give me a feeling of sorrow.

Brigham Young did not say that Michael was the Holy Ghost. The language is clear: he was simply using the Godhead as an example of the operation of 3 individuals working together in a heavenly pattern. It is an analogy, just as one might say that the 2nd Counselor in the First Presidency, or even in a Bishopric, holds a position similar to the Holy Ghost in the Godhead.

Is this really that confusing? I don't fully understand where these ideas and interpretations come from, or what they are based on. It is sad that it leads people away from the truth and light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Bronco73idi]

Joseph Smith taught false doctrine about the Holy Ghost

Post by I AM » July 18th, 2018, 12:48 pm
viewtopic.php?p=871446&hilit=holy+ghost#p871446

They all can't be right.
So who is right - the Bible, the Book of Mormon, or Joseph Smith ?
you decide by the scriptures below.

The content of that post claiming to be what the Bible says does not seem to be what it says at all, but rather misinterpretations of the Bible. This is the purpose of the Book of Mormon and the revelations given to Joseph Smith in the Doctrine & Covenants: to clarify misconceptions and misinterpretations of the Bible. The literal text of the Bible is rarely at fault (even the KJV which is full of errors, changes, moving text, and removing text), but the interpretations of these by the understanding of men do cause great confusion, and contention.

The position of the The Church of Jesus Christ is clear: the Book of Mormon and the words of the prophets supplement and correct the literal text of the Bible, and even moreso the incorrect interpretations of the Bible made without greater light and inspiration.

I find this quote from President Young inspired: "It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost." --JD 1:51, Brigham Young, April 9, 1852 This reveals that the Michael (who became Adam) is represented in the Deity as the Holy Ghost. Besides, it is revealed in revelation (2BC 23) that Adam did take upon himself the office of the Holy Ghost when he died."

This quote, and the Adam/God theories it inspired by the misunderstanding of those who chose to interpret it beyond what it says, give me a feeling of sorrow.

Brigham Young did not say that Michael was the Holy Ghost. The language is clear: he was simply using the Godhead as an example of the operation of 3 individuals working together in a heavenly pattern. It is an analogy, just as one might say that the 2nd Counselor in the First Presidency, or even in a Bishopric, holds a position similar to the Holy Ghost in the Godhead.

Is this really that confusing? I don't fully understand where these ideas and interpretations come from, or what they are based on. It is sad that it leads people away from the truth and light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

“This quote, and the Adam/God theories it inspired by the misunderstanding of those who chose to interpret it beyond what it says, give me a feeling of sorrow.”

I’m sorry you feel this way

Gospel of Thomas
15 Jesus said: When you see him who was not born of woman, fall down upon your faces and worship him; that one is your Father.

Jospeh Smith papers

“instructing them in the principles and order of the Priesthood, attending to washings, anointings, endowments and the communication of Keys pertaining to the Aaronic Priesthood, and so on to the highest order of Melchisedec Priesthood, setting forth the order pertaining to the ancient of Days, and all those plans and principles, by which any one is enabled to secure the fulness of those blessings, which have been prepared for the Church of the first born, and come up and abide in the presence of the Eloheim in the Eternal worlds.“

Did anyone else get all dominion over the whole earth from Elohim? Genesis 1:26-28

Before the flood men of old, men of renown were 120 years old Genesis 6:3-4. Adam (940 years) and the sons of Adam were way older, until Moses, he only lived to 120 years.

[Bronco73idi]

Of course, because that was the moed, or appointed time.

It's also not a proof for the idea of the Holy Spirit being Jesus actual spirit.

How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?

So did He receive the Holy Ghost (His Spirit) in the womb or not until after His baptism (which is the order or the Word of God)?

Personally I think Being There's interpretation on this is not truth.

“How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?”

What Biblical scripture reference says baptism by fire was for anyone before the Lord’s ascension? We know that his apostles did not have the gift of the Holy Ghost until after his ascension.

We know Jeremiah was prophesying in the womb, before he took on the Everlasting Covenant. The story of Jeremiah tells us we are not all equal.

I’m not siding with anyone here, these are just things I think about.

Others did from Adam (Moses 6) to the Messiah.

I know others did, every prophet that prophesied did. I think this is why John the Baptist had his own disciples.

The common children of Abraham may not have, ie Jesus’s and John’s disciples, apostles. The Holy Ghost did not come after John’s be heading

Just random thoughts on this subject.

[BeNotDeceived]

He identified when the seventh seal opened.

[ransomme]

He identified when the seventh seal opened.

Except no seals have been opened yet.

[ransomme]

“How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?”

What Biblical scripture reference says baptism by fire was for anyone before the Lord’s ascension? We know that his apostles did not have the gift of the Holy Ghost until after his ascension.

We know Jeremiah was prophesying in the womb, before he took on the Everlasting Covenant. The story of Jeremiah tells us we are not all equal.

I’m not siding with anyone here, these are just things I think about.

Others did from Adam (Moses 6) to the Messiah.

I know others did, every prophet that prophesied did. I think this is why John the Baptist had his own disciples.

The common children of Abraham may not have, ie Jesus’s and John’s disciples, apostles. The Holy Ghost did not come after John’s be heading

Just random thoughts on this subject.

Yeah I think either there is the Trinity or they are three distinct individuals.

And upon further examination, that Three as One and One as Three is truth.

[BeNotDeceived]

He identified when the seventh seal opened.

Except no seals have been opened yet.

The seventh seal opened in 2010.

[ransomme]

He identified when the seventh seal opened.

Except no seals have been opened yet.

The seventh seal opened in 2010.

Interesting belief. So the 144k have already been sealed and sent out?

In John's Endtime vision, he sees the sealed book. Key word, sealed. Those seals will only be open at the Day of the Lord (not during their corresponding dispensations) which is not yet here.

Jesus is the only one who can open the book. And he could only open the seals after His victory:

Revelation 5
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof...Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

[Bronco73idi]

He identified when the seventh seal opened.

Except no seals have been opened yet.

The seventh seal opened in 2010.

What if you witnessed the start of something different then what you think?

Revelation 17
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

[Bronco73idi]

Others did from Adam (Moses 6) to the Messiah.

I know others did, every prophet that prophesied did. I think this is why John the Baptist had his own disciples.

The common children of Abraham may not have, ie Jesus’s and John’s disciples, apostles. The Holy Ghost did not come after John’s be heading

Just random thoughts on this subject.

Yeah I think either there is the Trinity or they are three distinct individuals.

And upon further examination, that Three as One and One as Three is truth.

You know I believe in Adam is our Father.

Again, just putting this out there, if we break down Joseph words from May 4th 1842 and place each member of the Godhead into them, the Holy Ghost would be Elohim.

“which have been prepared for the Church of the first born, and come up and abide in the presence of the Eloheim in the Eternal worlds.“

We say The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost.

What if it’s The Holy Ghost, The Father and The Son?

Or they are all equal? I know we say the are equal but when we say them in a certain order we subconsciously might put one over the other.

[BeNotDeceived]

Except no seals have been opened yet.

The seventh seal opened in 2010.

Interesting belief. So the 144k have already been sealed and sent out?

In John's Endtime vision, he sees the sealed book. Key word, sealed. Those seals will only be open at the Day of the Lord (not during their corresponding dispensations) which is not yet here.

Jesus is the only one who can open the book. And he could only open the seals after His victory:

Revelation 5
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof...Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

That is your opinion of what those verses mean, but it is not the opinion of all.

DBNP

The above phraseology conforms as a deep, but not profound word tuple of the second order.

[ransomme]

The seventh seal opened in 2010.

Interesting belief. So the 144k have already been sealed and sent out?

In John's Endtime vision, he sees the sealed book. Key word, sealed. Those seals will only be open at the Day of the Lord (not during their corresponding dispensations) which is not yet here.

Jesus is the only one who can open the book. And he could only open the seals after His victory:

Revelation 5
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof...Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

That is your opinion of what those verses mean, but it is not the opinion of all.

DBNP

The above phraseology conforms as a deep, but not profound word tuple of the second order.

Well the events which we are given by which we may know the signs of the times haven't been fulfilled.

Multiple prophets in scripture give the signs and events of the Sixth Seal, and they clearly have not yet taken place.

Right there in Revelation it says that the 144k of the Sixth Seal "are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

So unless you are also saying that that portion of the great tribulation has also happened, then how could one think that the sixth and even the seventh seals have been opened?

[Being There]

Are you saying that the bother of Jared saw the Holy Spirit?

Is this a Trinity thing?

How does the redirected Lord send His own Spirit out of His body? Or is it some other type of manifestation? Just trying to understand your concept.

I’m just spit balling, the lord’s apostles did not receive the Holy Ghost until 10 days after the lord’s ascension, what does that mean or why?

Of course, because that was the moed, or appointed time.

It's also not a proof for the idea of the Holy Spirit being Jesus actual spirit.

How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?

So did He receive the Holy Ghost (His Spirit) in the womb or not until after His baptism (which is the order or the Word of God)?

Personally I think Being There's interpretation on this is not truth.

first of all, it's not MY INTERPRETATION -
the scriptures speak for themselves.

But you can go right ahead and trust your and others opinions and interpretations all you want.
But I will trust what the scriptures say.

and as I just posted in another thread -

I tend to believe more in The Book of Mormon - (than I do in anything that JS says)
and what it says about - The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost being ONE GOD - even Jesus Christ.

to repeat - what I've said before

unless English has become useless,
and if all you had were these scriptures -

Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son,
because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


The Book of Ether
Chapter 4

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

8 And he that will contend against the word of the Lord, let him be accursed; and he that shall deny these things, let him be accursed; for unto them will I show no greater things, saith Jesus Christ;
for I am he who speaketh.

11 But he that believeth these things which I have spoken,
him will I visit with the manifestations of my Spirit, and he shall know and bear record.
For because of my Spirit he shall know that these things are true; for it persuadeth men to do good.

12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me.
I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me.
For behold, I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

The Book of Ether
Chapter 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people.
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

[Being There]

I’m just spit balling, the lord’s apostles did not receive the Holy Ghost until 10 days after the lord’s ascension, what does that mean or why?

Of course, because that was the moed, or appointed time.

It's also not a proof for the idea of the Holy Spirit being Jesus actual spirit.

How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?

So did He receive the Holy Ghost (His Spirit) in the womb or not until after His baptism (which is the order or the Word of God)?

Personally I think Being There's interpretation on this is not truth.

first of all, it's not MY INTERPRETATION -
the scriptures speak for themselves.

But you can go right ahead and trust your and others opinions and interpretations all you want.
But I will trust what the scriptures say.

and as I just posted in another thread -

I tend to believe more in The Book of Mormon - (than I do in anything that JS says)
and what it says about - The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost being ONE GOD - even Jesus Christ.

to repeat - what I've said before

unless English has become useless,
and if all you had were these scriptures -

Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son,
because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


The Book of Ether
Chapter 4

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

8 And he that will contend against the word of the Lord, let him be accursed; and he that shall deny these things, let him be accursed; for unto them will I show no greater things, saith Jesus Christ;
for I am he who speaketh.

11 But he that believeth these things which I have spoken,
him will I visit with the manifestations of my Spirit, and he shall know and bear record.
For because of my Spirit he shall know that these things are true; for it persuadeth men to do good.

12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me.
I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me.
For behold, I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

The Book of Ether
Chapter 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people.
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

so take all these scriptures (above)
along with the ones I already posted (below)
and you'll have your answer

"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore,
they speak the words of Christ.
Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ;
for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
(and who guides you and teaches you, and "tells you all things what ye should do" ?
The Holy Ghost - The Lord's spirit)
2 Nephi 32


Doctrine and Covenants
Section 36
2 And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon,
and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;


John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

[Being There]

and as I've repeated many times in this forum -
about the 7 seals.

as what you are saying about the opening of the 7th seal,
I don't believe that it opened in the year 2000 or that D&C 77:7 is accurate.
And as far as the " silence in heaven about the space of half an hour"
Rev. 8
1. And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. which is approx. 20.8 years; which is around now: according to thinking that the 7th seal opened at the year 2000. (because this is the Year 2020)
But if you read that Chapter ( 8) in Revelation, it's obvious that these things that are to happen when
the 7th seal is open, won't happen right now. (**** please see at bottom)



I'm sure many do not know this
but, I believe that the 7 seals are NOT in chronological order,
and are 7 plagues to be poured out during the tribulations - that time is starting NOW.

Besides the fact that they are end-day judgments, all one would have to do
is read them to see they have not yet been fulfilled.

D&C 77:7
7 Q. What are we to understand by the seven seals with which it was sealed?
A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the first thousand years, and the second also of the second thousand years, and so on until the seventh.

If you think they are in order - and each one for each 1000 years - please tell me how you can explain this ?
These things, happen at the opening of the sixth seal.
When did this happen ?
Has this already happened ? I don't think so.
sounds to me more like the end, after the 7th seal has been opened.

LDS.ORG

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Then we have these verses.
Do you see any words that are similar to the verses above ?

D&C 88:93,95,96

93 And immediately there shall appear a great sign in heaven, and all people shall see it together.

95 “And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour, and IMMEDIATELY after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up,
AND THE FACE OF THE LORD SHALL BE UNVEILED;

96 "And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him."

so this is definitely talking about the time of the second coming.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Inspired Prophetic Warnings To All Inhabitants of the Earth

EPISTLE OF ELDER WILFORD WOODRUFF

To the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and to all the world

http://jaredc.chaosnet.org/proph/lundwall4.html

(in part)
"These events referred to are but a very limited portion of the revelations of God which are about to be fulfilled upon the heads of this generation. I wish to warn all nations of the judgments of God which are at their doors. Thrones will be cast down, nations will be overturned, anarchy will reign, all legal barriers will be broken down, and the laws will be trampled in the dust. You are about to be visited with war, the sword, famine, pestilence, plague, earthquakes, whirlwinds, tempests, and with the flame of devouring fire. By fire and with the sword will God plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord will be many. The anger of the Lord is kindled and his sword is bathed in heaven, and is about to fall upon Idumea, or the world. And who is able to abide these things? And who will stand when he appeareth?
The fig trees are leafing and the signs of heaven and earth indicate the coming of the Son of Man.
The seals are about to be opened; the plagues to be poured forth. Your rivers and seas will be turned into blood and to gall. And the inhabitants of the earth will die of plagues. And the unbelief of great Babylon, with the whole Christian world, will not make the truths of God without effect."
Millennial Star, Vol. 41, pp. 241, 245-6., April 21, 1879.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Seals of the Book of Revelation Do Not Represent Each 1000 Years

quote

The Seals of the Book of Revelation Do Not Represent Each 1000 Years

This post will treat another error in the Doctrine and Covenants: The exposition on the book of Revelation found in D&C 77.

Say the Joseph Smith Papers Project for this text, "[Sydney] Rigdon probably served as the original scribe for the explanation, but Jesse Gause could have been the scribe instead. The earliest surviving copy is an undated one made by John Whitmer in Revelation Book 1, where it is identified only as 'Revelation Explained.'" There is no known original copy. Of Revelation Book 1, the JSPP says, "Revelation Book 1 contains the earliest known copies of many revelations and, in some cases, the only surviving early manuscript copy." Many of "the revelations and other items are out of chronological order. Manuscript pages 128–148 contain fourteen items dated December 1831–April 1832 that were copied into the manuscript book after April 1832. The manuscript source of these revelations and other items is unknown, but JS and other church leaders possibly brought them to Missouri in April 1832. While these fourteen items are out of order chronologically, Whitmer copied more of them into Revelation Book 1 than other scribes copied into Revelation Book 2, which was begun in late February or early March 1832 and kept by JS and his scribes at church headquarters in Ohio."

Revelation Book 1 was highly edited. JSPP says:
"Many redactions were made before selected items were published in Missouri, while others were made in Ohio before the 1835 publication of the Doctrine and Covenants. Changes made in Sidney Rigdon’s hand are among the earliest, and evidence indicates that he made them in Ohio before the book went to Missouri in November 1831....John Whitmer and Oliver Cowdery could have made redactions in either Ohio or Missouri as early as 1831 or as late as 1835, though the majority of redactions they made first appear in print in 1833 or earlier. Whitmer’s marks often reversed changes made by Sidney Rigdon, and his later editing also modified some of the wording in the revelations. Though not as frequent, changes in Cowdery’s hand were often more substantive in nature, clarifying and expanding the meaning of several items in preparation for the publication of the Book of Commandments and the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants. William W. Phelps had neither reason nor opportunity to edit the items in Revelation Book 1 until he and his associates began preparing the texts for publication in Missouri. As printer of The Evening and the Morning Star and the Book of Commandments, Phelps provided much of the punctuation and versification and many of the other copyediting changes. Only rarely did he alter the original language."

With that historical background, the text of D&C 77 consists of several questions asked about the Book of Revelation (not Revelation Book 1, but rather the last book in the Bible). Historically speaking, if other doctored LDS documents are to be taken as precedent, it is very unlikely that the entire section as printed came from Joseph Smith, but also very unlikely that the entire section was fabricated. Instead, the most likely modifications were to themes, passages, or individual words.

This passage is highly suspect:
"6 Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?
A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.
7 Q. What are we to understand by the seven seals with which it was sealed?
A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the first thousand years, and the second also of the second thousand years, and so on until the seventh." (D&C 77:6-7.)
Why? Because if this passage were true, it would mean that those events associated with the 1st-6th seals must already have transpired. While sufficient effort could successfully pin some items, such as the four horsemen, on past events, it does not seem that any of the many commentators have been able to find plausible subjects that have garnered as much attention from history as they do in John's revelation. In other words, though candidates for some of the items pertaining to seals 1-6 exist, they certainly are not prominent enough to be the singular feature used to describe each period. For example, in seal 2 there goes forth "another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword." Was peace somehow more abundant in the first 1000 years of the earth than the 2nd thousand years? What event heralded the change?

Other events simply have not yet occurred, no matter how hard we try to shoehorn them into past events. For example, during the 6th seal we read: "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" (Revelation 12:17.)

But all of this is merely speculation, right? Not exactly.

It turns out we do have teachings from Joseph Smith on the Book of Revelation outside of D&C 77. This comes from "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith":
There is a grand difference and distinction between the visions and figures spoken of by the ancient prophets, and those spoken of in the revelations of John. The things which John saw had no allusion to the scenes of the days of Adam, Enoch, Abraham or Jesus, only so far as is plainly represented by John, and clearly set forth by him. John saw that only which was lying in futurity and which was shortly subject: "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John: who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of his prophecy and keep those things that are written therein: for the time is at hand." Also Rev. 4:1. "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven; and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter."....Now, I make this declaration, that those things which John saw in heaven had no allusion to anything that had been on the earth previous to that time, because they were the representation of "things which must shortly come to pass," and not of what has already transpired. John saw beasts that had to do with things on the earth, but not in past ages. The beasts which John saw had to devour the inhabitants of the earth in days to come. ....The revelations do not give us to understand anything of the past in relation to the kingdom of God. What John saw and speaks of were things which he saw in heaven; those which Daniel saw were on and pertaining to the earth.
What is the source for this teaching? It comes from William Clayton's first hand contemporary record found in Words of Joseph Smith 8 April 1843. It is also found (a briefer version) in Joseph Smith's diary of the same date kept (at that time) by Willard Richards.

So, given the proven alterations in Revelation Book 1 that filtered into D&C, and given a solid source for the above passage, we are forced to decide: Did Joseph Smith teach that each seal corresponded to 1000 years of the earth's existence, or did John's revelation consist only of events of the future reckoned from John's time (circa AD 96)?

If he taught one but not the other, certainly the TPJS passage is more reliable. If he taught both, certainly the TPJS passage, which came around ten years after D&C 77, would reflect his more developed understanding.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so according to D&C 77:7 the 7th seal would be opening now;
and there's no way that these things are going to happen now;
other things of the tribulations must happen first.

****
Revelation
CHAPTER 8

1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

[BeNotDeceived]

… how could one think that the sixth and even the seventh seals have been opened?

An absolute truth: the seventh seal opened in 2010.

Propeller

Add the word propeller to your search queries and you’ll find plenty validation.

[ransomme]

Of course, because that was the moed, or appointed time.

It's also not a proof for the idea of the Holy Spirit being Jesus actual spirit.

How about this reasoning... if Jesus fulfilled all righteousness then He was also baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. Right?

So did He receive the Holy Ghost (His Spirit) in the womb or not until after His baptism (which is the order or the Word of God)?

Personally I think Being There's interpretation on this is not truth.

first of all, it's not MY INTERPRETATION -
the scriptures speak for themselves.

But you can go right ahead and trust your and others opinions and interpretations all you want.
But I will trust what the scriptures say.

and as I just posted in another thread -

I tend to believe more in The Book of Mormon - (than I do in anything that JS says)
and what it says about - The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost being ONE GOD - even Jesus Christ.

to repeat - what I've said before

unless English has become useless,
and if all you had were these scriptures -

Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand
that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son,
because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


The Book of Ether
Chapter 4

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

8 And he that will contend against the word of the Lord, let him be accursed; and he that shall deny these things, let him be accursed; for unto them will I show no greater things, saith Jesus Christ;
for I am he who speaketh.

11 But he that believeth these things which I have spoken,
him will I visit with the manifestations of my Spirit, and he shall know and bear record.
For because of my Spirit he shall know that these things are true; for it persuadeth men to do good.

12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me.
I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me.
For behold, I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

The Book of Ether
Chapter 3
14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people.
Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.
In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

so take all these scriptures (above)
along with the ones I already posted (below)
and you'll have your answer

"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore,
they speak the words of Christ.
Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ;
for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
(and who guides you and teaches you, and "tells you all things what ye should do" ?
The Holy Ghost - The Lord's spirit)
2 Nephi 32


Doctrine and Covenants
Section 36
2 And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon,
and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter,
which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;


John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I wasn't using "interpretation" as a pejorative.

And thank you for expounding why you take a trinitarian view.

Is Jesus a lamb?

The scriptures explicitly say that He is a lamb. So God is a lamb.

Interpretation and understanding are still required