"The Jaredites were Black" by David Grant Stewart Sr.

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Baurak Ale
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Re: "The Jaredites were Black" by David Grant Stewart Sr.

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I Dont Know... wrote: December 8th, 2021, 9:23 pm
Baurak Ale wrote: December 8th, 2021, 8:54 am
I Dont Know... wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 4:25 am
ransomme wrote: March 17th, 2021, 5:08 am
CURSE 1
In v.24 what was that curse? Wasn't that the curse of Canaan as we read in v.21-22? That curse was not a curse of blackness. Noah cursed Ham's son Canaan because Ham "saw the nakedness of his father". (Genesis 9:20-25)
What does that mean to "[see] the nakedness of his father"? It appears to be a Hebrew idiomatic phrase that means intercourse. In short, Ham had sex with his mom and Canaan was the product of that. That is why Canaan was cursed for Ham's sin.
Audio/podcast - https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/podcast/n ... of-canaan/
Document - https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/5 ... of_Ham.pdf
Thanks brother,
You're both forgetting the JST of the curse on Ham's son:

Genesis 9:29 – 30, JST:
29 And Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done unto him; and he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
30 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant, and a veil of darkness shall cover him, that he shall be known among all men.
...could it be both. I know the Lord was very explicit regarding the nakedness of man/woman/father/daughter/son/mother/son/aunt etc....
I would say maybe except for the provision for inheritance of black skin from before the flood through genetic inheritance according to Abraham:

Abraham 1:21 – 24 (emphasis added):
21 Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.
22 From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.
23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;
24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.
In Enoch's vision of antediluvian events, he identifies what the 'blood of the Canaanites' is:

Moses 7:6 – 8, 10 – 12, 22 (emphasis added):
6 And again the Lord said unto me: Look; and I looked towards the north, and I beheld the people of Canaan, which dwelt in tents.
7 And the Lord said unto me: Prophesy; and I prophesied, saying: Behold the people of Canaan, which are numerous, shall go forth in battle array against the people of Shum, and shall slay them that they shall utterly be destroyed; and the people of Canaan shall divide themselves in the land, and the land shall be barren and unfruitful, and none other people shall dwell there but the people of Canaan;
8 For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people....

10 And the Lord said unto me: Go to this people, and say unto them—Repent, lest I come out and smite them with a curse, and they die.
11 And he gave unto me a commandment that I should baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, which is full of grace and truth, and of the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and the Son.
12 And it came to pass that Enoch continued to call upon all the people, save it were the people of Canaan, to repent....

22 And Enoch...beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.
In summary, Enoch sees the descendants of Cain, who are expressly stated as being black, and is told not to preach to them, the Lord calling them 'the people of Canaan.' This is extremely significant because some people mock Joseph Smith for using the name of Noah's grandson in an anachronistic antediluvian context, but these verses reveal that Ham must have named his son, Canaan, after the land where the descendants of Cain lived (as opposed to the name being something novel that Ham made up).

Hence scriptural references to "Canaanites" before the flood are references to a black people descendant from Cain, and scriptural references to "Canaanites" after the flood are of a black people descendant from Cain, preserved through Ham (though later through mixing with Shem's descendants the Canaanites of the Middle East became lighter skinned). This applies to Ham's other descendants too, according to Abraham, such as Mizraim (Pharaoh), Cush, etc.

So did Ham have sex with his mom? If so, then the blood of the pre-flood Canaanites would have been present in Japheth and Shem too as her children and their descendants too would "of that lineage by which [they] could not have the right of Priesthood" (Abr. 1:27). But this is not so. No, the scriptures bear out that Ham had married someone of the forbidden bloodline, a black woman descended from Cain, and that the incident with Noah's nakedness had something to do perhaps with Ham's attempt to steal rites to the priesthood by way of Noah's garment, the same that Adam received of the Lord in the Garden of Eden. As Abraham again observed, Ham's ruse apparently was interpreted by his descendants as being successful (akin to modern Muslims believing Esau never sold the birthright, justifying their traditions): "The Pharaohs would fain claim [right of Priesthood] from Noah, through Ham" (Ibid., emphasis added).

But that's a discussion for a different time.

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I Dont Know...
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Re: "The Jaredites were Black" by David Grant Stewart Sr.

Post by I Dont Know... »

...thanks that's great. Oh, I am not sure about the Ham and his mother bit. I was actually referring to " seeing the nakedness of his father..."

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Niemand
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Re: "The Jaredites were Black" by David Grant Stewart Sr.

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Luke wrote: December 26th, 2020, 9:41 am Everyone should read this book

I always found it strange that despite the mention of Priesthood throughout all the Book of Mormon, it isn't mentioned in the Book of Ether. Then I discovered things like this:

Olmec Monoliths.jpg

So I have believed for a while now that the Jaredites were black. Well I got the book yesterday and I read all of it (it's only short), and am now convinced that the Jaredites were black

Highly recommend it

So next time someone claims "the Priesthood ban was/is racist"... just tell them to look at what the Lord blessed the Jaredites with. They were in the same boat as Pharaoh:
  • Abraham 1

    26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.
Afrocentrists point to these as proof of African contact (they don't look very Egyptian), but they also look like the more flat faced Mongol types of North East Asia... since the sculptures aren't in colour, we can't see well.
Image

Image

Even Mao has that going on a bit.
Image

This famous Olmec sculpture, "the Wrestler" looks very Chinese... more so than Amerindian.

Image

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Niemand
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Re: "The Jaredites were Black" by David Grant Stewart Sr.

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nightlight wrote: April 2nd, 2021, 3:54 pm The Egyptian ruling class were not black.

Look at Hatshepsut hair.....it's red.
No, they weren't. They were north Africans, or at least north east Africans. They were more Mediterranean in appearance, i.e. white with some black admixture. Some west Asian influences as well. At best ancient Egyptians were Mulattoes, but they were more likely to look like Greeks, Italians or even Persians than a very black person.

It's a myth that red or blonde hair is an exclusively white trait. It occurs occasionally encountered in black peoples in Africa. Some blacks from Papua New Guinea and native Australians also get blonde and red hair occasionally although it's much less common than among whites.

Natural red heads with black skin.
Image
Image

Melanesians with blonde hair. It is more common among them than Africans.

Image
Image

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Durzan
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Re: "The Jaredites were Black" by David Grant Stewart Sr.

Post by Durzan »

Robin Hood wrote: December 8th, 2021, 12:56 pm
Luke wrote: December 8th, 2021, 12:50 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 8th, 2021, 9:44 am
Luke wrote: December 8th, 2021, 8:39 am

Not to my understanding. Paul saw the Lord Jesus Christ (the Son), whom to see evidently requires no Priesthood. The Father, on the other hand:

D&C 84
22 For without this [the Melchizedek Priesthood] no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.
Joseph said he saw two personages, he said nothing about seeing the Father's face.
We have a tendency to read between the lines and make assumptions based upon our own or our cultural perceptions.
Joseph claimed nothing beyond what he said regarding the the first vision experience.

And then of course, we have the account of Stephen seeing the Father and the Son at the time of his stoning. He was a Deacon and therefore did not hold the Melchizedek Priesthood, but still saw the Father.
It doesn’t say that Stephen didn’t have the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Bishops are set apart as Bishops, as far as they already are ordained as High Priests (unless a descendant of Aaron).
Stephen was a Deacon so clearly didn't hold the Melchizedek Priesthood.
Citation Needed. IIRC, the chapters mentioned that there were 70 who were called and ordained to act as missionaries and aids to the Twelve Apostles, and Stephen was among them. Therefore, Stephen did have the MP, and was likely the equivalent to being a member of the Seventy.

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Robin Hood
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Re: "The Jaredites were Black" by David Grant Stewart Sr.

Post by Robin Hood »

Durzan wrote: December 11th, 2021, 1:59 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 8th, 2021, 12:56 pm
Luke wrote: December 8th, 2021, 12:50 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 8th, 2021, 9:44 am

Joseph said he saw two personages, he said nothing about seeing the Father's face.
We have a tendency to read between the lines and make assumptions based upon our own or our cultural perceptions.
Joseph claimed nothing beyond what he said regarding the the first vision experience.

And then of course, we have the account of Stephen seeing the Father and the Son at the time of his stoning. He was a Deacon and therefore did not hold the Melchizedek Priesthood, but still saw the Father.
It doesn’t say that Stephen didn’t have the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Bishops are set apart as Bishops, as far as they already are ordained as High Priests (unless a descendant of Aaron).
Stephen was a Deacon so clearly didn't hold the Melchizedek Priesthood.
Citation Needed. IIRC, the chapters mentioned that there were 70 who were called and ordained to act as missionaries and aids to the Twelve Apostles, and Stephen was among them. Therefore, Stephen did have the MP, and was likely the equivalent to being a member of the Seventy.
That's a good point Durzan. The tradition is that he was a Deacon, but it doesn't say that. However, his responsibilities were those of a Deacon and not a Seventy. The NT clearly states what the responsibilities of Seventy's were. It was a missionary role under the supervision of the Apostles.
Stephen was one of seven men ordained/set apart to assist with serving, collecting, and distributing offerings to the poor and needy. This is clearly nothing to do with the responsibilities of a Seventy, but sits very well with our concept of the role of a Deacon.

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