"The Jaredites were Black" by David Grant Stewart Sr.

[larsenb]

Wayne May does a short presentation on this issue and demonstrates that the Jaredites being black is much more likely than not.
He also says they sailed to America from England.

This would fit w/the latest ideas about the early 'Brits' around the time of Cheddar Man, who are judged to have very dark skin, curly hair, but blue eyes.

But the Olmec statues don't really fit Wayne May's ideas of the Jaredites, because they are found down around the Vera Cruz area of Mexico, which, though in North America proper, isn't Wayne May's North America.

[ransomme]

Are you claiming you have more " Priesthood" than the Brother of Jared & Ether ?

If the Jaredites indeed are black, then yes, I suppose so

But do I have more knowledge of and relationship with God than those men? No. They outpace us all by lightyears

I know the trap you're trying to set

Ether was a prophet of jesus christ....

What good is your "Priesthood" when a man without it is a prophet, has more relationship and knowledge of God?

Lol who can claim a man has less than himself when said man walk , talks, and prophesies with Jesus Christ?

You don't have more "Priesthood" than Ether, my guy. Your skin color means nothing. What comes out of your mouth means everything

As usual my point goes over your head... probably because you keep arguing against what you think I'm saying

Again, you might want to read this...

• Abraham 1
  
  26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

You can be blessed immensely and not have Priesthood

It just says that he cursed Pharaoh, not that he cursed his seed necessarily. I don't think that that could be evidence enough that all blacks are cursed.

Also if the Jaredites were black they obviously had the priesthood, because they had seers to use the Urim and Thummim. And the promises given to the Jaredites are akin to the everlasting covenant as God covenanted with Abraham, including a promised land, posterity, prosperity, etc.

Abraham 2:11 "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee; and in thee (that is, in thy Priesthood) and in thy seed (that is, thy Priesthood), for I give unto thee a promise that this dright shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal."

It does sound like he had the priesthood. “[The brother of Jared] could not be kept from beholding within the veil” (Ether 3:19). And, “the Lord could not withhold anything from him, for he knew that the Lord could show him all things” (3:26). TBOJ was given a vision of “all inhabitants of the earth which had been, and also all that would be . . . even unto the ends of the earth” (3:25). And the Lord told TBOJ to "seal" up the writings of those visions for a later time (v. 27; see also 2 Nephi 27:7, 10). Sounds like the sealing power, as that is in the sealed portion of the gold plates of Moroni.

[Robin Hood]

If the Jaredites indeed are black, then yes, I suppose so

But do I have more knowledge of and relationship with God than those men? No. They outpace us all by lightyears

I know the trap you're trying to set

Ether was a prophet of jesus christ....

What good is your "Priesthood" when a man without it is a prophet, has more relationship and knowledge of God?

Lol who can claim a man has less than himself when said man walk , talks, and prophesies with Jesus Christ?

You don't have more "Priesthood" than Ether, my guy. Your skin color means nothing. What comes out of your mouth means everything

As usual my point goes over your head... probably because you keep arguing against what you think I'm saying

Again, you might want to read this...

• Abraham 1
  
  26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

You can be blessed immensely and not have Priesthood

It just says that he cursed Pharaoh, not that he cursed his seed necessarily. I don't think that that could be evidence enough that all blacks are cursed.

Also if the Jaredites were black they obviously had the priesthood, because they had seers to use the Urim and Thummim. And the promises given to the Jaredites are akin to the everlasting covenant as God covenanted with Abraham, including a promised land, posterity, prosperity, etc.

Abraham 2:11 "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee; and in thee (that is, in thy Priesthood) and in thy seed (that is, thy Priesthood), for I give unto thee a promise that this dright shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal."

It does sound like he had the priesthood. “[The brother of Jared] could not be kept from beholding within the veil” (Ether 3:19). And, “the Lord could not withhold anything from him, for he knew that the Lord could show him all things” (3:26). TBOJ was given a vision of “all inhabitants of the earth which had been, and also all that would be . . . even unto the ends of the earth” (3:25). And the Lord told TBOJ to "seal" up the writings of those visions for a later time (v. 27; see also 2 Nephi 27:7, 10). Sounds like the sealing power, as that is in the sealed portion of the gold plates of Moroni.

Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim before he had the priesthood.
The brother of Jared being able to pierce the veil has nothing to do with priesthood, but with faith, as the scripture clearly demonstrates.

According to Joseph Smith the Jaredites were descended from Ham. According to the BofA the descendents of Ham were a cursed lineage as pertaining to the priesthood.

Sealing up writings is not the sealing power.

There is simply no scriptural reference to the Jaredites having any priesthood. We know that priesthood authority only resided with the descendents of Jacob at that time. So for the Jaredites to have priesthood they would to be of that lineage.
And yet we read that they ate pigs.

[ransomme]

Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim before he had the priesthood.

The brother of Jared being able to pierce the veil has nothing to do with priesthood, but with faith, as the scripture clearly demonstrates.

Sealing up writings is not the sealing power.

Ture, true, fair points, that was just late night shoddy answers
"...ye shall write them and shall seal them up, that no one can interpret them; for ye shall write them in a language that they cannot be read." (Ether 3:21–22)

There is simply no scriptural reference to the Jaredites having any priesthood. We know that priesthood authority only resided with the descendents of Jacob at that time. So for the Jaredites to have priesthood they would to be of that lineage.
And yet we read that they ate pigs.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And as Moroni wrote his abridgment did not contain the “hundredth part” of what was written. Obviously, the Jaredites must have been taught by TBOJ about God, Christ and they must have had some religion, but none of that is written in Ether either.

How many specific references of "priesthood" are in the scriptures? (I was surprised by these such results on lds.org, but did not look for non "priesthood" references to priesthood.)
The Book of Mormon? 8
The Bible? 8
The Book of Enoch? Zero (I think)

This is an interesting read on the topic as well:
https://thelunchisfree.com/2016/09/22/t ... jaredites/

Looking at these passages there appear to be two curses that are conflated:
Abraham 1:21-26
"21 Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.
22 From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.
23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;
24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.
25 Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.
26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood."

CURSE 1
In v.24 what was that curse? Wasn't that the curse of Canaan as we read in v.21-22? That curse was not a curse of blackness. Noah cursed Ham's son Canaan because Ham "saw the nakedness of his father". (Genesis 9:20-25)
What does that mean to "[see] the nakedness of his father"? It appears to be a Hebrew idiomatic phrase that means intercourse. In short, Ham had sex with his mom and Canaan was the product of that. That is why Canaan was cursed for Ham's sin.
Audio/podcast - https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/podcast/n ... of-canaan/
Document - https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/5 ... of_Ham.pdf

CURSE 2
In addition, we have in v.26 a separate curse specific to Pharaoh that reads, "Noah...cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood."


Also, it makes no sense that a people cursed pertaining to the priesthood (which I do not think that the Jaredites were) would be given a land of inheritance, a promised land from God. And God wouldn't make so many promises, via a covenant, to the Jaredites. And give the Jaredites prophets.


What's more not giving blacks the priesthood does not fit with the rest of the scriptures such as:

2 Nephi 26:33 "...and he invited them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile."

Acts 10"34-35 "...God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

The Lamanites who were cursed received the priesthood when they converted.

etc.

[JK4Woods]

Of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, did they all have the Priesthood..?
I think not... Levites had the Priesthood to officiate in Temple ordinances.

What about the rest...?

[Robin Hood]

Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim before he had the priesthood.

The brother of Jared being able to pierce the veil has nothing to do with priesthood, but with faith, as the scripture clearly demonstrates.

Sealing up writings is not the sealing power.

Ture, true, fair points, that was just late night shoddy answers
"...ye shall write them and shall seal them up, that no one can interpret them; for ye shall write them in a language that they cannot be read." (Ether 3:21–22)

There is simply no scriptural reference to the Jaredites having any priesthood. We know that priesthood authority only resided with the descendents of Jacob at that time. So for the Jaredites to have priesthood they would to be of that lineage.
And yet we read that they ate pigs.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And as Moroni wrote his abridgment did not contain the “hundredth part” of what was written. Obviously, the Jaredites must have been taught by TBOJ about God, Christ and they must have had some religion, but none of that is written in Ether either.

How many specific references of "priesthood" are in the scriptures? (I was surprised by these such results on lds.org, but did not look for non "priesthood" references to priesthood.)
The Book of Mormon? 8
The Bible? 8
The Book of Enoch? Zero (I think)

This is an interesting read on the topic as well:
https://thelunchisfree.com/2016/09/22/t ... jaredites/

Looking at these passages there appear to be two curses that are conflated:
Abraham 1:21-26
"21 Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.
22 From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.
23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;
24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.
25 Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.
26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood."

CURSE 1
In v.24 what was that curse? Wasn't that the curse of Canaan as we read in v.21-22? That curse was not a curse of blackness. Noah cursed Ham's son Canaan because Ham "saw the nakedness of his father". (Genesis 9:20-25)
What does that mean to "[see] the nakedness of his father"? It appears to be a Hebrew idiomatic phrase that means intercourse. In short, Ham had sex with his mom and Canaan was the product of that. That is why Canaan was cursed for Ham's sin.
Audio/podcast - https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/podcast/n ... of-canaan/
Document - https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/5 ... of_Ham.pdf

CURSE 2
In addition, we have in v.26 a separate curse specific to Pharaoh that reads, "Noah...cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood."


Also, it makes no sense that a people cursed pertaining to the priesthood (which I do not think that the Jaredites were) would be given a land of inheritance, a promised land from God. And God wouldn't make so many promises, via a covenant, to the Jaredites. And give the Jaredites prophets.


What's more not giving blacks the priesthood does not fit with the rest of the scriptures such as:

2 Nephi 26:33 "...and he invited them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile."

Acts 10"34-35 "...God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

The Lamanites who were cursed received the priesthood when they converted.

etc.

The Book of Mormon refers to priests, teachers, high priests, as well as temples and sacrifices. No such things are mentioned among the Jaredites.

[ransomme]

Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim before he had the priesthood.

The brother of Jared being able to pierce the veil has nothing to do with priesthood, but with faith, as the scripture clearly demonstrates.

Sealing up writings is not the sealing power.

Ture, true, fair points, that was just late night shoddy answers
"...ye shall write them and shall seal them up, that no one can interpret them; for ye shall write them in a language that they cannot be read." (Ether 3:21–22)

There is simply no scriptural reference to the Jaredites having any priesthood. We know that priesthood authority only resided with the descendents of Jacob at that time. So for the Jaredites to have priesthood they would to be of that lineage.
And yet we read that they ate pigs.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And as Moroni wrote his abridgment did not contain the “hundredth part” of what was written. Obviously, the Jaredites must have been taught by TBOJ about God, Christ and they must have had some religion, but none of that is written in Ether either.

How many specific references of "priesthood" are in the scriptures? (I was surprised by these such results on lds.org, but did not look for non "priesthood" references to priesthood.)
The Book of Mormon? 8
The Bible? 8
The Book of Enoch? Zero (I think)

This is an interesting read on the topic as well:
https://thelunchisfree.com/2016/09/22/t ... jaredites/

Looking at these passages there appear to be two curses that are conflated:
Abraham 1:21-26
"21 Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.
22 From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.
23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;
24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.
25 Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.
26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood."

CURSE 1
In v.24 what was that curse? Wasn't that the curse of Canaan as we read in v.21-22? That curse was not a curse of blackness. Noah cursed Ham's son Canaan because Ham "saw the nakedness of his father". (Genesis 9:20-25)
What does that mean to "[see] the nakedness of his father"? It appears to be a Hebrew idiomatic phrase that means intercourse. In short, Ham had sex with his mom and Canaan was the product of that. That is why Canaan was cursed for Ham's sin.
Audio/podcast - https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/podcast/n ... of-canaan/
Document - https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/5 ... of_Ham.pdf

CURSE 2
In addition, we have in v.26 a separate curse specific to Pharaoh that reads, "Noah...cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood."


Also, it makes no sense that a people cursed pertaining to the priesthood (which I do not think that the Jaredites were) would be given a land of inheritance, a promised land from God. And God wouldn't make so many promises, via a covenant, to the Jaredites. And give the Jaredites prophets.


What's more not giving blacks the priesthood does not fit with the rest of the scriptures such as:

2 Nephi 26:33 "...and he invited them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile."

Acts 10"34-35 "...God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

The Lamanites who were cursed received the priesthood when they converted.

etc.

The Book of Mormon refers to priests, teachers, high priests, as well as temples and sacrifices. No such things are mentioned among the Jaredites.

That is true Moroni hardly put anything into the account of their religion other than mentioning that they had prophets. And obviously, they started with a belief in God the Father and Christ, as those things were revealed to TBOJ as well as, as Moroni put it, "the very things which the brother of Jared saw; and there never were greater things made manifest than those which were made manifest unto the brother of Jared." (Ether 4:4)

[ransomme]

Of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, did they all have the Priesthood..?
I think not... Levites had the Priesthood to officiate in Temple ordinances.

What about the rest...?

yes and no.
No, only the Levites held the lesser priesthood.

Yes, or at least they all could have held the higher priesthood if they had not rejected the higher law.
Various prophets did have the higher priesthood and they came from different tribes. Obviously, The Prophet Jesus Christ was from Judah. Some Nephites had it as well.

[ransomme]

Also, consider the lineage of people that we know that had the priesthood.

Who was Menasseh's and Ephraim's mother? Their mother was the Egyptian Aseneth.

Abraham's father seems to have been a Hamite, which is why his father was a priest with Nimrod.

[I Dont Know...]

Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim before he had the priesthood.

The brother of Jared being able to pierce the veil has nothing to do with priesthood, but with faith, as the scripture clearly demonstrates.

Sealing up writings is not the sealing power.

Ture, true, fair points, that was just late night shoddy answers
"...ye shall write them and shall seal them up, that no one can interpret them; for ye shall write them in a language that they cannot be read." (Ether 3:21–22)

There is simply no scriptural reference to the Jaredites having any priesthood. We know that priesthood authority only resided with the descendents of Jacob at that time. So for the Jaredites to have priesthood they would to be of that lineage.
And yet we read that they ate pigs.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And as Moroni wrote his abridgment did not contain the “hundredth part” of what was written. Obviously, the Jaredites must have been taught by TBOJ about God, Christ and they must have had some religion, but none of that is written in Ether either.

How many specific references of "priesthood" are in the scriptures? (I was surprised by these such results on lds.org, but did not look for non "priesthood" references to priesthood.)
The Book of Mormon? 8
The Bible? 8
The Book of Enoch? Zero (I think)

This is an interesting read on the topic as well:
https://thelunchisfree.com/2016/09/22/t ... jaredites/

Looking at these passages there appear to be two curses that are conflated:
Abraham 1:21-26
"21 Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.
22 From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.
23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;
24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.
25 Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.
26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood."

CURSE 1
In v.24 what was that curse? Wasn't that the curse of Canaan as we read in v.21-22? That curse was not a curse of blackness. Noah cursed Ham's son Canaan because Ham "saw the nakedness of his father". (Genesis 9:20-25)
What does that mean to "[see] the nakedness of his father"? It appears to be a Hebrew idiomatic phrase that means intercourse. In short, Ham had sex with his mom and Canaan was the product of that. That is why Canaan was cursed for Ham's sin.
Audio/podcast - https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/podcast/n ... of-canaan/
Document - https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/5 ... of_Ham.pdf

CURSE 2
In addition, we have in v.26 a separate curse specific to Pharaoh that reads, "Noah...cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood."


Also, it makes no sense that a people cursed pertaining to the priesthood (which I do not think that the Jaredites were) would be given a land of inheritance, a promised land from God. And God wouldn't make so many promises, via a covenant, to the Jaredites. And give the Jaredites prophets.


What's more not giving blacks the priesthood does not fit with the rest of the scriptures such as:

2 Nephi 26:33 "...and he invited them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile."

Acts 10"34-35 "...God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

The Lamanites who were cursed received the priesthood when they converted.

etc.

Thanks brother,

I totally agree. I have witnessed more light and truth...more love and peace....more faithfulness and kindness from many of my dark skinned brothers and sisters than from anywhere else I am afraid to say.....

So, I don't pay too much attention to what others may say about my black brothers and sisters. For me it is a nonsense that they will not be entitled the fullness of a kind and loving God.

[Luke]

Also, consider the lineage of people that we know that had the priesthood.

Who was Menasseh's and Ephraim's mother? Their mother was the Egyptian Aseneth.

Abraham's father seems to have been a Hamite, which is why his father was a priest with Nimrod.

The idea that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and Ephraim had dark skin is ridiculous

Look at an Ephramite...

Do they look dark skinned?

[nightlight]

The Egyptian ruling class were not black.

Look at Hatshepsut hair.....it's red.

[ransomme]

Also, consider the lineage of people that we know that had the priesthood.

Who was Menasseh's and Ephraim's mother? Their mother was the Egyptian Aseneth.

Abraham's father seems to have been a Hamite, which is why his father was a priest with Nimrod.

The idea that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and Ephraim had dark skin is ridiculous

Look at an Ephramite...

Do they look dark skinned?

That is part of the point. By and large, Egyptians weren't black! In fact, they were less black in ancient times than they are today. Ancient Egyptians have DNA related more closely to the Levant, Turkey, and Europe. Hebrews probably had an "olive" complexion, not that that matters.

Also despite their partial Egyptian heritage Ephraim and Manasseh still received the priesthood. Not only that but Ephraim also received the Birthright.

[Alexander]

In the Midrash and Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, Asenath is said to be the daughter of Dinah and Shechem.



The traditions that trace Asenath to the family of Jacob relate that she was the daughter born to Dinah following her rape by Shechem son of Hamor. Jacob’s sons wanted to kill the infant, lest it be said that there was harlotry in the tents of Jacob. Jacob brought a gold plate and wrote God’s name on it; according to another tradition, he wrote on it the episode with Shechem. Jacob hung the plate around Asenath’s neck and sent her away. God dispatched the angel Michael to bring her to the house of Poti-phera in Egypt; according to yet another tradition, Dinah left Asenath on the wall of Egypt. That day Poti-phera went out for a walk near the wall with his young men, and he heard the infant’s crying. When they brought the baby to him, he saw the plate and the record of the episode. Poti-phera told his servants, “This girl is the daughter of great ones.” He brought her to his home and gave her a wet nurse. Poti-phera’s wife was barren, and she raised Asenath as her own daughter. Consequently, she was called “Asenath daughter of Poti-phera,” for she was raised in the home of Poti-phera and his wife, as if she were their own daughter. This narrative teaches that all is foreseen by God. Each of Jacob’s sons was born together with his future spouse, except for Joseph, who was not born together with his mate, since Asenath daughter of Dinah was fit to be his wife. God directed matters so that Joseph would find a wife when he went down to Egypt, and Asenath was suitable for him.
(Pirkei de-Rabbi Eliezer [ed. Higger], chaps. 35, 37; Midrash Aggadah [ed. Buber], Gen. 41:45).

[Landhigh12]

Ether was a prophet of jesus christ....

What good is your "Priesthood" when a man without it is a prophet, has more relationship and knowledge of God?

Lol who can claim a man has less than himself when said man walk , talks, and prophesies with Jesus Christ?

You don't have more "Priesthood" than Ether, my guy. Your skin color means nothing. What comes out of your mouth means everything

As usual my point goes over your head... probably because you keep arguing against what you think I'm saying

Again, you might want to read this...

• Abraham 1
  
  26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

You can be blessed immensely and not have Priesthood

It just says that he cursed Pharaoh, not that he cursed his seed necessarily. I don't think that that could be evidence enough that all blacks are cursed.

Also if the Jaredites were black they obviously had the priesthood, because they had seers to use the Urim and Thummim. And the promises given to the Jaredites are akin to the everlasting covenant as God covenanted with Abraham, including a promised land, posterity, prosperity, etc.

Abraham 2:11 "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee; and in thee (that is, in thy Priesthood) and in thy seed (that is, thy Priesthood), for I give unto thee a promise that this dright shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal."

It does sound like he had the priesthood. “[The brother of Jared] could not be kept from beholding within the veil” (Ether 3:19). And, “the Lord could not withhold anything from him, for he knew that the Lord could show him all things” (3:26). TBOJ was given a vision of “all inhabitants of the earth which had been, and also all that would be . . . even unto the ends of the earth” (3:25). And the Lord told TBOJ to "seal" up the writings of those visions for a later time (v. 27; see also 2 Nephi 27:7, 10). Sounds like the sealing power, as that is in the sealed portion of the gold plates of Moroni.

Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim before he had the priesthood.
The brother of Jared being able to pierce the veil has nothing to do with priesthood, but with faith, as the scripture clearly demonstrates.

According to Joseph Smith the Jaredites were descended from Ham. According to the BofA the descendents of Ham were a cursed lineage as pertaining to the priesthood.

Sealing up writings is not the sealing power.

There is simply no scriptural reference to the Jaredites having any priesthood. We know that priesthood authority only resided with the descendents of Jacob at that time. So for the Jaredites to have priesthood they would to be of that lineage.
And yet we read that they ate pigs.

Jacob, the grandson of Abraham, was born hundreds of years AFTER the Jaredites left from the Tower of Babel area. But the Priesthood existed before the Jaredites, during Adam's time. (See Moses 6:7) There were baptisms and the gift of the Holy Ghost given during Adam's time (See Moses 6:52, 66, and 67)

[Luke]

Question: Did Joseph Smith have any Priesthood when He saw the Father and the Son in 1820?
Answer: No

Last year I made this comment in ignorance. I want to correct myself. Joseph Smith did have Priesthood when saw the Father in 1820. D&C 84 teaches that this is necessary.

[Robin Hood]

Question: Did Joseph Smith have any Priesthood when He saw the Father and the Son in 1820?
Answer: No

Last year I made this comment in ignorance. I want to correct myself. Joseph Smith did have Priesthood when saw the Father in 1820. D&C 84 teaches that this is necessary.

I think this is incorrect.
Joseph had no more priesthood when he saw the Lord in the grove than Paul had on the road to Damascus.

[Luke]

Question: Did Joseph Smith have any Priesthood when He saw the Father and the Son in 1820?
Answer: No

Last year I made this comment in ignorance. I want to correct myself. Joseph Smith did have Priesthood when saw the Father in 1820. D&C 84 teaches that this is necessary.

I think this is incorrect.
Joseph had no more priesthood when he saw the Lord in the grove than Paul had on the road to Damascus.

Not to my understanding. Paul saw the Lord Jesus Christ (the Son), whom to see evidently requires no Priesthood. The Father, on the other hand:

D&C 84
22 For without this [the Melchizedek Priesthood] no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

[Baurak Ale]

CURSE 1
In v.24 what was that curse? Wasn't that the curse of Canaan as we read in v.21-22? That curse was not a curse of blackness. Noah cursed Ham's son Canaan because Ham "saw the nakedness of his father". (Genesis 9:20-25)
What does that mean to "[see] the nakedness of his father"? It appears to be a Hebrew idiomatic phrase that means intercourse. In short, Ham had sex with his mom and Canaan was the product of that. That is why Canaan was cursed for Ham's sin.
Audio/podcast - https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/podcast/n ... of-canaan/
Document - https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/5 ... of_Ham.pdf

Thanks brother,

You're both forgetting the JST of the curse on Ham's son:

Genesis 9:29 – 30, JST:
29 And Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done unto him; and he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
30 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant, and a veil of darkness shall cover him, that he shall be known among all men.

[Robin Hood]

Question: Did Joseph Smith have any Priesthood when He saw the Father and the Son in 1820?
Answer: No

Last year I made this comment in ignorance. I want to correct myself. Joseph Smith did have Priesthood when saw the Father in 1820. D&C 84 teaches that this is necessary.

I think this is incorrect.
Joseph had no more priesthood when he saw the Lord in the grove than Paul had on the road to Damascus.

Not to my understanding. Paul saw the Lord Jesus Christ (the Son), whom to see evidently requires no Priesthood. The Father, on the other hand:

D&C 84
22 For without this [the Melchizedek Priesthood] no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

Joseph said he saw two personages, he said nothing about seeing the Father's face.
We have a tendency to read between the lines and make assumptions based upon our own or our cultural perceptions.
Joseph claimed nothing beyond what he said regarding the the first vision experience.

And then of course, we have the account of Stephen seeing the Father and the Son at the time of his stoning. He was a Deacon and therefore did not hold the Melchizedek Priesthood, but still saw the Father.

[Luke]

Last year I made this comment in ignorance. I want to correct myself. Joseph Smith did have Priesthood when saw the Father in 1820. D&C 84 teaches that this is necessary.

I think this is incorrect.
Joseph had no more priesthood when he saw the Lord in the grove than Paul had on the road to Damascus.

Not to my understanding. Paul saw the Lord Jesus Christ (the Son), whom to see evidently requires no Priesthood. The Father, on the other hand:

D&C 84
22 For without this [the Melchizedek Priesthood] no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

Joseph said he saw two personages, he said nothing about seeing the Father's face.
We have a tendency to read between the lines and make assumptions based upon our own or our cultural perceptions.
Joseph claimed nothing beyond what he said regarding the the first vision experience.

And then of course, we have the account of Stephen seeing the Father and the Son at the time of his stoning. He was a Deacon and therefore did not hold the Melchizedek Priesthood, but still saw the Father.

It doesn’t say that Stephen didn’t have the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Bishops are set apart as Bishops, as far as they already are ordained as High Priests (unless a descendant of Aaron).

[Robin Hood]

I think this is incorrect.
Joseph had no more priesthood when he saw the Lord in the grove than Paul had on the road to Damascus.

Not to my understanding. Paul saw the Lord Jesus Christ (the Son), whom to see evidently requires no Priesthood. The Father, on the other hand:

D&C 84
22 For without this [the Melchizedek Priesthood] no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

Joseph said he saw two personages, he said nothing about seeing the Father's face.
We have a tendency to read between the lines and make assumptions based upon our own or our cultural perceptions.
Joseph claimed nothing beyond what he said regarding the the first vision experience.

And then of course, we have the account of Stephen seeing the Father and the Son at the time of his stoning. He was a Deacon and therefore did not hold the Melchizedek Priesthood, but still saw the Father.

It doesn’t say that Stephen didn’t have the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Bishops are set apart as Bishops, as far as they already are ordained as High Priests (unless a descendant of Aaron).

Stephen was a Deacon so clearly didn't hold the Melchizedek Priesthood.
A bishop is also the presiding High Priest.

Clearly D&C 84 refers to seeing the face of the Father, which appears to be something different from seeing him as a personage.

My personal view is that seeing the face is linked to conversing.

[larsenb]

Everyone should read this book

I always found it strange that despite the mention of Priesthood throughout all the Book of Mormon, it isn't mentioned in the Book of Ether. Then I discovered things like this:

So I have believed for a while now that the Jaredites were black. Well I got the book yesterday and I read all of it (it's only short), and am now convinced that the Jaredites were black

Highly recommend it

So next time someone claims "the Priesthood ban was/is racist"... just tell them to look at what the Lord blessed the Jaredites with. They were in the same boat as Pharaoh:

• Abraham 1
  
  26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

Recent analysis of the Cheddar Man genome indicates he had a gene marker indicating he was black. I.e., some of the earliest Brits were black.

Heck, just look at Ray Dorset, aka Mongo Jerry at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um-xl9EVqvs

[Robin Hood]

Everyone should read this book

I always found it strange that despite the mention of Priesthood throughout all the Book of Mormon, it isn't mentioned in the Book of Ether. Then I discovered things like this:

So I have believed for a while now that the Jaredites were black. Well I got the book yesterday and I read all of it (it's only short), and am now convinced that the Jaredites were black

Highly recommend it

So next time someone claims "the Priesthood ban was/is racist"... just tell them to look at what the Lord blessed the Jaredites with. They were in the same boat as Pharaoh:

• Abraham 1
  
  26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

Recent analysis of the Cheddar Man genome indicates he had a gene indicating he was black. I.e., some of the earliest Brits were black.

Heck, just look at Ray Dorset, aka Mongo Jerry at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um-xl9EVqvs

Interestingly Wayne May has presented evidence that the Jaredites set sail for their promised land from England.

[I Dont Know...]

CURSE 1
In v.24 what was that curse? Wasn't that the curse of Canaan as we read in v.21-22? That curse was not a curse of blackness. Noah cursed Ham's son Canaan because Ham "saw the nakedness of his father". (Genesis 9:20-25)
What does that mean to "[see] the nakedness of his father"? It appears to be a Hebrew idiomatic phrase that means intercourse. In short, Ham had sex with his mom and Canaan was the product of that. That is why Canaan was cursed for Ham's sin.
Audio/podcast - https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/podcast/n ... of-canaan/
Document - https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/5 ... of_Ham.pdf

Thanks brother,

You're both forgetting the JST of the curse on Ham's son:

Genesis 9:29 – 30, JST:
29 And Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done unto him; and he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
30 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant, and a veil of darkness shall cover him, that he shall be known among all men.

...could it be both. I know the Lord was very explicit regarding the nakedness of man/woman/father/daughter/son/mother/son/aunt etc....