LDS Freedom Forum

From the Preparedness Now Newsletter:
Many of the ill-prepared LDS of our day imagine to themselves [/size]and even verbalize to others that when hard times hit they will just go to a prepared persons home and get what they need...but never seem to mention that it will cost them anything. Perhaps they think of themselves like the prodigal son...coming home to enjoy a fatted calf...without taking into consideration that perhaps the goods they expect from their neighbor will not be "without money and without price" as they now suppose.


Perhaps they would be surprised to know that if they could go back in time to the days of Brigham Young...that they could expect no such handout from him. He said "Be not so unwise as to sell the bread that you and your children need...and remember that you cannot buy any from me, unless you pay a fair price for it." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p.256)


"Paying a fair price" does not mean..."come on over and get what you want for free!" The doctrine for "providing in the Lords way" is that if a person can work for what they need...they should.

In the words of Heber J. Grant...

"My experience has taught me, and it has become a principle with me, that it is never any benefit to give out and out, to man or woman, money, food, clothing, or anything else, if they are able-bodied and can work and earn what they need, when there is anything on earth for them to do." (Conference report October 1936, pp. 2-6)

Now...paying a fair price for goods and services is generally now down with the currency of a nation. One must remember that the currency of any nation is only of any worth in a working economy. In a non-working economy...trying to get the things you want and need may take other means.

Ezra Taft Benson told us...

"The Saints have been advised to pay their own way and maintain a cash reserve. Recent history has demonstrated that in difficult days it is reserves with intrinsic value that are of most worth, rather than reserves, the value of which may be destroyed through inflation." (Ezra Taft Benson, “Prepare Ye,” Ensign, Jan. 1974, 68)


So...during "difficult days" it is not money in the bank that we want...but instead "reserves with intrinsic value".

So what are some items with intrinsic value?

F. Enzio Busche helps us to see how a now commonplace food item...was once an item of most value...


“Frequently I am asked, ‘What were the most valuable items in the days of starvation in Germany?’“...As for what we needed, the food item we relied on most was vegetable oil. With a bottle of vegetable oil, one could acquire nearly every other desirable item. It had such value that with a quart of vegetable oil one could probably trade for three bushels of apples or three hundred pounds of potatoes. Vegetable oil has a high calorie content, is easy to transport, and in cooking can give a tasty flavor to all kinds of food items that one would not normally consider as food - wildflowers, wild plants, and roots from shrubs and trees. For me and my family, a high-quality vegetable oil has the highest priority in our food storage, both in times of daily use and for emergency use. When vegetable oil is well-packed and stored appropriately, it has a long storage life without the necessity of refrigeration. We found ours to be in very good condition after twenty years of storage, but circumstances may vary in different countries and with different supplies.” (F. Enzio Busche Ensign,
June 1982)

Many of us have heard the story of how in the "great depression" a car was traded for a sack of potatoes. In day's of prosperity it is hard for many to fathom why someone would ever make such a trade...but when food becomes scarce...or when hyperinflation increases the price of basic commodities to the point where the average person cannot buy them...it will make a whole lot of sense.

It is foolish to expect that the expensive toys we now have will fetch our family the food we need in hard times. When food is priority number one and people's stomachs are growling...no one will want not want your electronic trinkets...your fine twined linens...and crisping pins...they will want eggs and butter!!

Charles W. Nibley related how the saints survived in the Cache Valley during the winter of 1860 and said that "Eggs and butter were the chief currency of the country. There was no such thing as money". (Pioneer stories, pp. 87-98)

I know of many people who might be labeled "survivalists" who when they are at the store...and see a great deal on a certain item...stock up on as much as they can. Their attitude is that if they can't use it...at least they will have extra on hand with which to trade for the things they do need.
As F. Enzion Busche said...

"...so long as there survives more than one family, there will be trading of valuable items. A free market will begin immediately to satisfy the needs of the people, and items in greatest demand will set the price, bypassing the use of money." (Ensign, June 1982 pp. 17-18)

Here is a list that a group put together of the 100 things that will disappear first...that you may consider stocking up on...for bartering purposes. By no means is it a complete list...but perhaps it will get you thinking on what items really matter most...and which may be of most use for bartering when the time comes.
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100 Items to Disappear First
1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
2. Water Filters/Purifiers
3. Portable Toilets
4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)
6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
10. Rice - Beans - Wheat
11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,)
12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - food grade if for drinking.
14. Mini Heater head (Propane) (Without this item, propane won't heat a room.)
15. Grain Grinder (Non-electric)
16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.
17. Survival Guide Book.
18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)
19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc.
20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
22. Vitamins
23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item)
28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit
35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room)
37. First aid kits
38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
41. Flour, yeast & salt
42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first
43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns
47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times)
48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels)
49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc
50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
51. Fishing supplies/tools
52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
53. Duct Tape
54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
55. Candles
56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
58. Garden tools & supplies
59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase
76. Reading glasses
77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
78. "Survival-in-a-Can"
79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog
81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
85. Lumber (all types)
86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's
88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
89. Lantern Hangers
90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
91. Teas
92. Coffee
93. Cigarettes
94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
95. Paraffin wax
96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
97. Chewing gum/candies
98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
100. Goats/chickens

From a Sarajevo War Survivor:
Experiencing horrible things that can happen in a war - death of parents and
friends, hunger and malnutrition, endless freezing cold, fear, sniper attacks.

1. Stockpiling helps. but you never no how long trouble will last, so locate
near renewable food sources.
2. Living near a well with a manual pump is like being in Eden.
3. After awhile, even gold can lose its luster. But there is no luxury in war
quite like toilet paper. Its surplus value is greater than gold's.
4. If you had to go without one utility, lose electricity - it's the easiest to
do without (unless you're in a very nice climate with no need for heat.)
5. Canned foods are awesome, especially if their contents are tasty without
heating. One of the best things to stockpile is canned gravy - it makes a lot of
the dry unappetizing things you find to eat in war somewhat edible. Only needs
enough heat to "warm", not to cook. It's cheap too, especially if you buy it in
bulk.
6. Bring some books - escapist ones like romance or mysteries become more
valuable as the war continues. Sure, it's great to have a lot of survival
guides, but you'll figure most of that out on your own anyway - trust me, you'll
have a lot of time on your hands.
7. The feeling that you're human can fade pretty fast. I can't tell you how many
people I knew who would have traded a much needed meal for just a little bit of
toothpaste, rouge, soap or cologne. Not much point in fighting if you have to
lose your humanity. These things are morale-builders like nothing else.
8. Slow burning candles and matches, matches, matches










The Power Hour Home Page

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© The Power Hour 2003

I have copied the above article and list of 100 things to store and am giving this to all of the sisters I visit teach (especially the inactive ones), plus my family, including my siblings (two of which are non-members), plus I'm giving them to my neighbors. They might think I'm kind of a nut, but at least I am warning all I can.

To the active sisters that I visit teach I included a quote from Pres. Kimball which is in the February visit teaching message: "To be a righteous woman during the winding up scenes on this earth, before the second coming of our Savior, is an especially noble calling. The righteous woman's strength and influence today can be tenfold what it might be in more tranquil times." I have told them as the matriarch of their families, they need to encourage their children to do these things.

I have a lot of members in our ward that are spending stupid amounts of money on the things of the world, swimming pools, new 4x4's, home cinemas, clothing clothing clothing the type that is the latest fashion and not practicle. These same peole also have the belief that the church will be their to aid them when times get hard and thats what fast offerings are for. I have also had a number of them say "jokenly" that they will come and live with my family if they can't survive. I say to them "I will only let you in as long as you bring your years supply with you". I am now at the stage where I don't talk much about my storage and how many years worth we have due to the amount that just want to bum of us later.

I enjoyed reading what President Young said about no free handouts and that one needs to work for it.

I do find it very discouraging on how many saints think that someone else been the church or other members will be there to bail them out of their misfortune should it come.

I removed my swimming pool last july (our winter time) and have now planted 5 different veggie garden in my back yard and I was truely amaized on the amount of negative remarks from poeple (yes I have had a lot of possitive remarks also) saying how dumb I was to remove my pool and that when it hit 40deg C, 110F, that I will wish that I had it back again. Well it is that temp right now and I love what the garden has done for my family in bringing us closer together and turning of the tv, we love eating a meal and having everything on the plate come out of our back yard. One funny thing is the amount of members that drop by for a visit and when they leave, ask for some tomatoes, corn etc. When asked at church why we took our pool out, my lovely wife simply said " we eat more than we swim".

Thanks for the top 100 list, I have found it most useful.

Carl wrote:I have a lot of members in our ward that are spending stupid amounts of money on the things of the world, swimming pools, new 4x4's, home cinemas, clothing clothing clothing the type that is the latest fashion and not practicle. These same peole also have the belief that the church will be their to aid them when times get hard and thats what fast offerings are for. I have also had a number of them say "jokenly" that they will come and live with my family if they can't survive. I say to them "I will only let you in as long as you bring your years supply with you". I am now at the stage where I don't talk much about my storage and how many years worth we have due to the amount that just want to bum of us later.

I enjoyed reading what President Young said about no free handouts and that one needs to work for it.

I do find it very discouraging on how many saints think that someone else been the church or other members will be there to bail them out of their misfortune should it come.

I removed my swimming pool last july (our winter time) and have now planted 5 different veggie garden in my back yard and I was truely amaized on the amount of negative remarks from poeple (yes I have had a lot of possitive remarks also) saying how dumb I was to remove my pool and that when it hit 40deg C, 110F, that I will wish that I had it back again. Well it is that temp right now and I love what the garden has done for my family in bringing us closer together and turning of the tv, we love eating a meal and having everything on the plate come out of our back yard. One funny thing is the amount of members that drop by for a visit and when they leave, ask for some tomatoes, corn etc. When asked at church why we took our pool out, my lovely wife simply said " we eat more than we swim".

Thanks for the top 100 list, I have found it most useful.

Got this from a friend of mine Stephen, from this forum. Can be found on a blog by a really cool, well built, good looking guy that I know found here...
http://kunaprepare.blogspot.com/2009/01 ... house.html

Shawn

Hey everyone, you may want to check out some of these blogs. Stephen who is his Stake preparedness rep, from this site posted his preparedness blog a while back and it is really good. It can be found here...
http://www.preparenownewsletter.blogspot.com/

I liked what he did, so I made my own as I am a ward preparedness rep. Just starting out here, I leveraged pretty heavy off of his blog because I like the way he thinks so much. My blog can be found here...
http://kunaprepare.blogspot.com/

I just noticed that some people have recently been posting some of the things that can be found on these blogs. Thought it might help to go to the source.


Shawn

Thanks for the great links.

Carl.

O were not Sharing, Were bartering.

Carl,

I love what the garden has done for my family in bringing us closer together and turning of the tv, we love eating a meal and having everything on the plate come out of our back yard

you have the right idea. I am making some grow boxes for my back yard to grow more veggies this summer. I will "sacrifice" some patio space but it's not really a sacrifice. I will be sending away for heirloom seeds so I can save the seeds and use them next year.

I think we'll start to see the return of the Victory Gardens that were so popular in WWII.

kathyn wrote:100. Goats/chickens

Man, I hate it when my store runs out of goats and chickens!

I've skimmed through that list a few times - it's popped up in a variety of places - and sometimes when I read it, some of the things sound like stuff people sitting around a campfire just spouted off without really knowing what disappeared in what order. When bad times go down, everything disappears! Still, a good list.

Carl, you and your wife are amazing. There are smart people, and then there are the truly wise who see well over the horizon. Given that there's a nasty drought going on in Ozland for the last few years, I'd think there would be more people understanding what you're doing and follow your lead. I guess us Yanks don't have the market cornered on foolish materialism.

ShawnC wrote:Got this from a friend of mine Stephen, from this forum. Can be found on a blog by a really cool, well built, good looking guy that I know found here...
http://kunaprepare.blogspot.com/2009/01 ... house.html

Shawn

Thanks Shawn - I thought that was great. My favs:

13. "So your plan...is to not plan...and to eat my food when there is no amount of money that could buy food...is that right...?" (restating the question may help them to see that it is an unreasonable thing to say)

18. "Should I expect you on your knees crying or in a mob with a pitchfork?!"

gruden, I don't think I'll try to have goats and chickens. My little corner of suburbia doesn't really lend itself to a goat. But maybe when things look bleak I'll scout around for a few chickens.

Chickens are a must in a back yard and you really don't need a lot of room. I had an extra 3m x 3m shed just holding a few bits and pieces and now I have cleared it out and removed the back wall and a part of the roof and placed a fence around the back. We now have 7 chickens and they give us 7 eggs a day. I had chickens as a child growing up in the suburbs, 21 of them; we didn't have much money and those chickens helped feed the 9 of us and firtelised the veggie garden at the same time.

It really if something special to have a garden and chickens in your yard working together, the scaps from the garden feeds the chooks and the chooks poo goes back on the garden.

If you did not know that the white part of an egg has 2 layers, than its been way to long since you have had a real egg. We have quite a few members wanting to buy any extra eggs we have and they are very sort after. Fresh eggs in times of hardship will be a fantastic bartering tool.

Yes there are many people that think we have gone to far, a farm in the city type of thing; I don't care. I would not be able to live with myself if my family had to suffer due to my stupidity and careless spending on throwaway items.

Carl

It really if something special to have a garden and chickens in your yard working together, the scaps from the garden feeds the chooks and the chooks poo goes back on the garden.

My daughter had three chickens in her back yard. She had a nice little coop for them. She loved them because they kept the back yard free of bugs and also, they fertilized the yard. However, her nosy neighbor called the city (SLC) folks to complain and because her property lacked about 3 more feet depth, she had to get rid of them. They were a smaller type of chicken and weren't noisy at all. But the city said there was a chance of salmonella and they're not tolerated in a yard her size.

She kept those chickens well cared for and they were her pets. But I am seriously considering getting a couple of chickens this spring anyway.

Do you candle your eggs?

kathyn's Question: Do you candle your eggs?

I live in the middle of the suburbs and we are not permitted to have roosters (noise Control) so we just have the 7 chooks. Having them in an old shed really stops a lot of the noise getting out.

Have you gone a spoken to this neighboro asking them (with your daughter in hand) on how you can come to a compromise due to how much your daughter loves the chickens.

Sometimes people just need to be asked so they feel that they have some control over their enviroment and that people are not walking over them. It can be hard having neighbors that you have to walk on egg shells all the time with, but a smile and friendly greeting can go along way.

I wish you success.

Have you gone a spoken to this neighboro asking them (with your daughter in hand) on how you can come to a compromise due to how much your daughter loves the chickens.

Actually, my daughter is 32 and she's had nothing but problems with her back neighbor. I've told her to grow a lot of trees or bushes along her back fence so it cuts off the view.

On NPR recently there was a segment on how raising chickens in urban environments is starting to become a national movement. One guy being interviewed, when asked how his neighbors handled the noise, made the comment that he 'bought off' his neighbors by occasionally giving them fresh eggs. If that became an issue again, it's something to consider!

kathyn wrote: Actually, my daughter is 32 and she's had nothing but problems with her back neighbor. I've told her to grow a lot of trees or bushes along her back fence so it cuts off the view.

Just be careful about getting trees-- when I was a youth we had chickens in the middle of the ghetto in Los Angeles. Biggest problem was having trees because even though we would clip the hens' wings all the time, they would climb up the tree and then fly down into the neighbors' yards. Our chickens lived in the doghouse. Fun times...

My mind was running...and my stomach started to growl (too early of a dinner) so I got up for some leftover tortellini...and sat down to the computer...and came to the forum....and saw...you are talking about some stuff I put together!

I have enjoyed doing that blog. I am glad that people are reading it!. I often write the articles before bed....and then wake up the next morning and rewrite stuff when I have a "new" set of eyes looking at it. If anyone ever signs up for the email notifications...know that whatever you get in email...is probably a bit different from the final product that is actually on the blog....because it emails it before my final draft.

Shawn! Sweet blog. Anyone who wants to cut and paste...or use in whatever way you'd like to get anything from the blog out...are welcome to. Thanks for saying nice things.

I agree with Gruden. Number 18 is one of my favorites. Short and to the point. Since I wrote that I have had some people come up to me and say "I guess I shouldn't plan on coming to your house now!" I had someone else tell me that that article was the kick in the behind that they needed to finally get started. I think some of my candor in the blog is helping to move some people.

The downside of a blog is that I don't get all of the feedback like I do in this forum. Maybe I will post stuff here first...so I can get grilled for doctrinal accuracy before putting it on my blog. I think I'm going to get some of the things I have written on this forum...and rewrite them for the blog.

One quick comment on Wills point regarding sharing vs. bartering. The point of the article was not to say that there is no place for sharing without expecting return...because there is a place for that. There is a big difference between someone asking for you to share and depending upon you for their families support. Without staying up too much later I will say that I wrote the article to an audience where many people for some reason think that someone else will be happy to take them in...and save them from the consequences of their disobedience when times get rough. The churches handbook on welfare is all too clear....people are supposed to 1. Take care of themselves 2. Rely on their families for help 3. Then the church. Note that it doesn't say...go to a prepared members home...but instead to the church! Unless changes are made to the welfare program...what can be "shared" should be given to the bishops...to care for the needy. Like it says in the "All is safely gathered in" pamphlet to "support bishops as they care for others." One can share...and still give an opportunity for the person to earn what they receive. Probably the first thing that many of the prepared and bishops will say in an effort to get people to help themselves in hard times is "Go to them that buy and sell"...and then "Go to your families for help"...and then "See what has been donated to the bishops storehouse."

I really have to go to bed...what I am trying to say in a lot of words is that we should share...but that for many or most...it should be on certain conditions....namely working for it...or trading....not just a handout...because of all of the doctrinal backing to children having claim on their parents...and wives having claim on their husbands DandC 83....and because that is "providing the lords way". Time for bed. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

Thank you for the list. My wife and I were sitting down and trying to imagine what would be valuable for trade. We came up with cigarettes, vodka, toilet paper, and cosmetics.

Zowieink

Thank you for the list. My wife and I were sitting down and trying to imagine what would be valuable for trade. We came up with cigarettes, vodka, toilet paper, and cosmetics.

My first inclination was to get a lot of barter items, but I've decided to make sure I have everything I need first before I worry too much about things to barter.