LDS Freedom Forum

How could King Herod tell the wise men where the Lord would be born and much more.

Micah prophesied approximately seven hundred years earlier. Micah 5:2 But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.K.J.V.

Matthew 2 K.J.V.

1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judæa in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judæa: for thus it is written by the prophet,

6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

Bethlehem. The city of David. Ancient homeland of Israel's greatest king. In Hebrew it is called Beth Lechem. Literally, Beth Lechem means "The House of Bread." How perfect that He who was to take the throne of David and become Israel's ultimate king should come to earth in the city of His illustrious ancestor! How fitting that He who would be known as the "Bread of Life" should enter mortality in the tiny village called "The House of Bread." (See John 6:35.)

In Bethlehem today stands the Church of the Nativity. Beneath the church is a large grotto or cave. In southern Judea, including the area around Bethlehem, limestone caves are common. Such caves provided natural shelter for the flocks and herds of ancient Israel. They were warm, safe from inclement weather, and could easily be blocked to keep the animals safe for the night. The tradition that this grotto was the stable of Luke's account is very old and accepted by many scholars. President Harold B. Lee, then of the Council of the Twelve, visited this grotto in 1958 and confirmed that in his mind it was "a hallowed spot, . . . a sacred place."

So there in the sheltered warmth of the cave, beneath the limestone hills of Bethlehem, He who was to become the Good Shepherd—not of the sheep that grazed the hills of Israel, but of the human flock—was born and cradled in a manger.

One of these verses is frequently misquoted: "Keeping watch over their flocks by night." But the verse does not say flocks, plural, but flock, singular. One scholar explained the significance: "There was near Bethlehem, on the road to Jerusalem, a tower known as Migdal Eder, or the watchtower of the flock. Here was the station where shepherds watched the flocks destined for sacrifice in the temple. . . . It was a settled conviction among the Jews that the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem, and equally that he was to be revealed from Migdal Eder. The beautiful significance of the revelation of the infant Christ to shepherds watching the flocks destined for sacrifice needs no comment." The flock mentioned in the scripture, then, apparently was the one used for temple sacrifices, and the shepherds thus had responsibility for the most important flock in the region. https://www.ldsliving.com/-The-Birth-of ... se-/s/5127

“There were Shepherds Staying Out in the Fields…”

Many have proposed the shepherds of Luke 2:8 were out in the fields at night because it was lambing season, with the implication that it was early spring.

Israeli meteorologists tracked December weather patterns for many years and concluded that the climate in Israel has been essentially constant for at least the last 2,000 years. The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible states that, "broadly speaking, weather phenomena and climatic conditions as pictured in the Bible correspond with conditions as observed today" (R.B.Y. Scott, Vol. 3, Abingdon Press, Nashville, 1962, p. 625).

The temperature in the area of Bethlehem in December averages around 44 degrees Fahrenheit (7 degrees Celsius) but can drop to well below freezing, especially at night. Describing the weather there, Sara Ruhin, chief of the Israeli weather service, noted in a 1990 press release that the area has three months of frost: December with 29 F. [minus 1.6 C.]; January with 30 F. [minus 1.1 C.] and February with 32 F. [0 C.].

Snow is common for two or three days in Jerusalem and nearby Bethlehem in December and January. These were the winter months of increased precipitation in Messiah's time, when the roads became practically unusable and people stayed mostly indoors.

This is important evidence to disprove a December date for Messiah's birth. Note that, at the time of Messiah's birth, the shepherds tended their flocks in the fields at night. “Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields,” wrote one Gospel writer, “keeping watch over their flock by night” (Luke 2:8). A common practice of shepherds was keeping their flocks in the field from April to October, but in the cold and rainy winter months they took their flocks back home and sheltered them (emphasis added).

The Companion Bible, Appendix 179 says:

Shepherds and their flocks would not be found “abiding” (Gr. agrauleo) in the open fields at night in December (Tebeth), for the paramount reason that there would be no pasturage at that time. It was the custom then (as now) to withdraw the flocks during the month Marchesven (Oct.–Nov.) from the open districts and house them for the winter.

This information indicates the shepherds could have been out in the fields with the sheep at night by Nisan 1, from mid-March to early April (cf. https://www.hebcal.com/holidays/rosh-chodesh-nisan), but not earlier in the winter. biblearchaeology.org

4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judæa, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)

City of David is used nearly 40 times in the Old Testament...always referring to Jerusalem.

I've always puzzled over why Ceaser or the regional beuracrats would care to make their subjects travel to their birthplace to pay taxes or be counted, probably not a popular demand, in a place already full of tension. Why not make them pay taxes where the people were? Orrrrrr...make them pay when they gather in crowds for their religious rites in the spring, in their capital city, where the Romans had a large fortress and many soldiers. In the City of David, Jerusalem.

Book of Mormon says Jerusalem.
Just something to think about.

Its beyond words to describe the feelings of wonder that the Very God and King of the Universe came to this earth and was born in lowly circumstances, what a humble and loving God we have in Christ Jesus.

Thanks Mac.

As I grow older I've witnessed countless examples of humans stooping to devious measures to gain fame or power for themselves. Like Cain, people employ every kind of deception and manipulation to preserve a little advantage for themselves. It is the fundamental weakness of humans which tempts all of us.

Then there is Christ.

He humbly turned from fame. Every temptation to exercise power for his advantage he rejected.

Still his persona was so powerful he could walk unharmed through an angry mob who moments before wanted to stone him.

So calm, so assured, so patient, so forgiving.

I hope he comes back soon.

Yes.... Jesus is the God that practises what He preachs.

Like the old Christian Hym.....He could of called ten thousand Angels.

They bound the hands of Jesus in the garden where He prayed;
They led Him thro' the streets in shame.
They spat upon the Savior so pure and free from sin;
They said, "Crucify Him; He's to blame."

He could have called ten thousand angels
To destroy the world and set Him free.
He could have called ten thousand angels,
But He died alone, for you and me.

Upon His precious head they placed a crown of thorns;
They laughed and said, "Behold the King!"
They struck Him and they cursed Him and mocked His holy name
All alone He suffered everything.

When they nailed Him to the cross, His mother stood nearby,
He said, "Woman, behold thy son!"
He cried, "I thirst for water," but they gave Him none to drink.
Then the sinful work of man was done.

To the howling mob He yielded; He did not for mercy cry.
The cross of shame He took alone.
And when He cried, "It's finished," He gave Himself to die;
Salvation's wondrous plan was done.

Interesting information that is verified in other sources as well.

In the Holy Land, our guide continued, the followers of the itinerant preacher known as Jesus were not interested in challenging anyone or anything. They practiced their faith quietly and gladly left matters of government to Rome and its agents. Hadrian, however, had had to deal with a number of bloody uprisings in what was left of Jerusalem after its destruction by Roman legions a scant 40 years before he came to power. Hence, he assumed that the followers of Jesus in nearby Bethlehem might well be troublemakers and ordered that they be harassed and especially that their holy places be destroyed or at least desecrated.

One of those holy places was, of course, the cave which had been thought for almost a century to be the site where the Savior was born. Hadrian knew exactly what to do. He ordered his imperial architects to surround the area near the cave with a grove of trees and to build on top of the cave a temple to the pagan god, Adonis, whose sexual exploits were expected to shock the Christians and cause them to avoid the area at all costs.

The grove was planted, the temple was built and two centuries passed. In the year 313 after Christ, the Emperor Constantine seized power, permitted the followers of Jesus to practice their faith, tore down Hadrian's Temple to Adonis, and replaced it with the Church of the Nativity, whose foundation remains to this day, even though the structure above it has been rebuilt several times over the past 1,700 years.

"Constantine knew where the cave of the Nativity was," our guide announced with evident pleasure, "simply because Hadrian had tried to make everyone forget where it was and his shameful Temple to Adonis ensured that no one would."https://www.cny.org/stories/hadrians-te ... s&town_id=