Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
- JK4Woods
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2507
Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
Just been wondering why Joseph Smith was killed and had to die at Carthage.
Prime of his life, successful being mouth piece of Heavenly Father for the restoration.
Why were he and his brother killed (silenced) at that inoppertune time?
Why did Hyrum also have to die?
Was it the Lord's doing.... make a martyr of them both...?? (Was that the capstone of their restorative effort...?).
Was it removal from office for straying away from the righteous path...??
Was it secret combinations winning victory over an anointed servant of the Lord...?
Just wondering...
What is beyond the official story? I don't know, and haven't heard of, yet feel there is more to the story.
Prime of his life, successful being mouth piece of Heavenly Father for the restoration.
Why were he and his brother killed (silenced) at that inoppertune time?
Why did Hyrum also have to die?
Was it the Lord's doing.... make a martyr of them both...?? (Was that the capstone of their restorative effort...?).
Was it removal from office for straying away from the righteous path...??
Was it secret combinations winning victory over an anointed servant of the Lord...?
Just wondering...
What is beyond the official story? I don't know, and haven't heard of, yet feel there is more to the story.
- Alexander
- the Great
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Re: Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
He was betrayed by the ones he once called "friends". Just as Joseph of Egypt was sold by his brethren, so was Joseph Smith. He was martyred by conspiracy and the secret chamber because he testified against their wicked deeds.
Helaman 13
26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false eprophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.
2 Nephi 28
10 And the blood of the saints shall cry from the ground against them.
Helaman 13
26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false eprophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.
2 Nephi 28
10 And the blood of the saints shall cry from the ground against them.
- Luke
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Re: Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
- Hebrews 9
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
- Cruiserdude
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Re: Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
I can't give you details or help on that stuff but there is 'something more' to knowingly giving up or ending your mortal probation for the cause of the Savior. Reading about folks that have experienced that sure brings a 'burning in my bosom'.JK4Woods wrote: ↑December 14th, 2020, 1:36 pm Just been wondering why Joseph Smith was killed and had to die at Carthage.
Prime of his life, successful being mouth piece of Heavenly Father for the restoration.
Why were he and his brother killed (silenced) at that inoppertune time?
Why did Hyrum also have to die?
Was it the Lord's doing.... make a martyr of them both...?? (Was that the capstone of their restorative effort...?).
Was it removal from office for straying away from the righteous path...??
Was it secret combinations winning victory over an anointed servant of the Lord...?
Just wondering...
What is beyond the official story? I don't know, and haven't heard of, yet feel there is more to the story.
I love to read about Hyrum and Joseph and that beautiful special brotherhood they shared.
'In June of 1844, as the events at Carthage Jail drew closer and as premonitions of his own martyrdom became ever more prevalent, the Prophet Joseph Smith turned to his brother Hyrum and said: “Hyrum, take your family on the next boat to Cincinnati. I want you to live to avenge me.” To which, Hyrum replied: “Joseph, I will not leave you.” (Cannon, George Q., The Life of Joseph Smith, the Prophet, 435)
If Hyrum had stayed in Nauvoo, it is clear that he would have assumed the Presidency of the Church (Doctrines of Salvation 1:221; Times and Seasons 5:683) but Hyrum would not leave his brother Joseph.
As brothers, they faced an angry mob of over 100 men at Carthage Jail. And as brothers, they died as martyrs for the cause of Christ.'
If their mother's words of what transpired don't break you down, nothing can:
After the [bodies of Joseph and Hyrum] were washed and dressed in their burial clothes, we were allowed to see them. I had for a long time braced every nerve, roused every energy of my soul and called upon God to strengthen me, but when I entered the room … , it was too much; I sank back, crying to the Lord in the agony of my soul, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken this family!” A voice replied, “I have taken them to myself, that they might have rest.”
As I looked upon their peaceful, smiling countenances, I seemed almost to hear them say, “Mother, weep not for us, we have overcome the world by love; we carried to them the gospel, that their souls might be saved; they slew us for our testimony, and thus placed us beyond their power; their ascendancy is for a moment, ours is an eternal triumph.”
And I do very much believe they triumphed over this world and their reward will be eternal with our Savior.
- Lexew1899
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Re: Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
I don’t think he had to die. People just exercised their free will to murder him.
- marc
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Re: Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
D&C 3:5 Behold, you have been entrusted with these things, but how strict were your commandments; and remember also the promises which were made to you, if you did not transgress them.
6 And behold, how oft you have transgressed the commandments and the laws of God, and have gone on in the persuasions of men.
7 For, behold, you should not have feared man more than God. Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words—
8 Yet you should have been faithful; and he would have extended his arm and supported you against all the fiery darts of the adversary; and he would have been with you in every time of trouble.
9 Behold, thou art Joseph, and thou wast chosen to do the work of the Lord, but because of transgression, if thou art not aware thou wilt fall.
Joseph had a way of being persuaded by men. At the end of his life, Joseph was warned by the Lord to flee to the Rocky Mountains. The way had been opened to Joseph. He and Hyrum set out, but was accused of cowardice by his friends and family for abandoning them and the saints. Being persuaded by men to return rather than listen to the counsel of God, Joseph fell prey to the mobs. He could have fallen from grace, but he did fall into Satan's trap.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... e?lang=eng
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... r?lang=eng
6 And behold, how oft you have transgressed the commandments and the laws of God, and have gone on in the persuasions of men.
7 For, behold, you should not have feared man more than God. Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words—
8 Yet you should have been faithful; and he would have extended his arm and supported you against all the fiery darts of the adversary; and he would have been with you in every time of trouble.
9 Behold, thou art Joseph, and thou wast chosen to do the work of the Lord, but because of transgression, if thou art not aware thou wilt fall.
Joseph had a way of being persuaded by men. At the end of his life, Joseph was warned by the Lord to flee to the Rocky Mountains. The way had been opened to Joseph. He and Hyrum set out, but was accused of cowardice by his friends and family for abandoning them and the saints. Being persuaded by men to return rather than listen to the counsel of God, Joseph fell prey to the mobs. He could have fallen from grace, but he did fall into Satan's trap.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... e?lang=eng
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... r?lang=eng
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Re: Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
There are factors that haven't been brought up. First, Joseph offered himself as a sacrifice for his people. Second, Hyrum was the elder brother and Patriarch, Joseph turned to him to make the choice, and he suggested they go back. Also, Hyrum needed to pass on before Joseph, so the Patriarchal role could pass back to Joseph, this happened at Carthage. They are a representation of 2 others who went before. Lastly, the saints weren't worthy of them in a similar way to the Israelites and Moses. They were flawed to be sure as pointed out above, but Joseph was faithful when he passed on, as was Hyrum, and The Lord vouches for the work of Joseph today as well. I don't know much, but this is true.
- Robin Hood
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Re: Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
I believe it was his time.JK4Woods wrote: ↑December 14th, 2020, 1:36 pm Just been wondering why Joseph Smith was killed and had to die at Carthage.
Prime of his life, successful being mouth piece of Heavenly Father for the restoration.
Why were he and his brother killed (silenced) at that inoppertune time?
Why did Hyrum also have to die?
Was it the Lord's doing.... make a martyr of them both...?? (Was that the capstone of their restorative effort...?).
Was it removal from office for straying away from the righteous path...??
Was it secret combinations winning victory over an anointed servant of the Lord...?
Just wondering...
What is beyond the official story? I don't know, and haven't heard of, yet feel there is more to the story.
Revelations had dried up and he had become involved in politics, even running for president.
Also I don't think Joseph strutting around Nauvoo in a military uniform was what God had planned for him either.
The whole situation was becoming toxic, with former friends openly declaring themselves as enemies, and his closest associates out of town.
There was no reason for him to stay.
- Thinker
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Re: Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
It’s all speculation, & my hunch is that Brigham Young has a part in it, & then he led everyone west 2 years after Joseph Smith was killed. Maybe BY used the excuse of JS owing money & other ways JS ticked others off, to help stir up anger. BY had a pattern of murder (MMM, Ute Extermination Order).
My guess is BY wanted to lead the church in his own way - different from JS. And though JS seemed to be mishandling his power, he still didn’t preach & practice polygamy outright, as BY did. It’s like JS still clung to at least ideals.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
This mainly.
Besides that though, there was a conspiracy to kill him by various heads of states. And they even had a federal professional sniper at Carthage that went there specifically to kill him. ( which is speculated)
Definitely a conspiracy in Nauvoo to take him out, but not any of the 12 apostles as some assume.
No, BY was not in on it.
- SJR3t2
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Re: Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
What about all the other prophets who gave a testament, such as Moses who didn't even die?
- nightlight
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Re: Why did Joseph Smith have to die at Carthage...??
He actually fell from a windowmarc wrote: ↑December 14th, 2020, 4:00 pm D&C 3:5 Behold, you have been entrusted with these things, but how strict were your commandments; and remember also the promises which were made to you, if you did not transgress them.
6 And behold, how oft you have transgressed the commandments and the laws of God, and have gone on in the persuasions of men.
7 For, behold, you should not have feared man more than God. Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words—
8 Yet you should have been faithful; and he would have extended his arm and supported you against all the fiery darts of the adversary; and he would have been with you in every time of trouble.
9 Behold, thou art Joseph, and thou wast chosen to do the work of the Lord, but because of transgression, if thou art not aware thou wilt fall.
Joseph had a way of being persuaded by men. At the end of his life, Joseph was warned by the Lord to flee to the Rocky Mountains. The way had been opened to Joseph. He and Hyrum set out, but was accused of cowardice by his friends and family for abandoning them and the saints. Being persuaded by men to return rather than listen to the counsel of God, Joseph fell prey to the mobs. He could have fallen from grace, but he did fall into Satan's trap.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... e?lang=eng
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... r?lang=eng