LDS Freedom Forum

Juliet wrote: ↑December 9th, 2020, 7:57 pm

endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 7:42 pm

djinwa wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 7:06 pm

ajax wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 10:21 am Guys, gals, remember, the Brethren are "churchmen" whose primary importance is to protect the institution. Wholly predictable.

True, but I'm not sure if they're thinking things through. They're reinforcing the idea that groups are dangerous, so where is the future in church gatherings? If it isn't this virus, there will be another one.

Sunday I drove by a big movie theater (multiple theaters) in town, only a couple years old that has been closed since covid started. Saw a For Sale sign at the front door. That may be our churches soon.

Haven’t any of these men read the story of the boy who cried wolf? What happens when there’s an ACTUAL crisis? People will be tuned out due to the lack of credibility.

I think the real crisis is people losing their jobs and then their homes, just so they can be rounded up and gotten rid of just in time for no one to notice. Pretty sure this plan has been tested in hurricane areas where the poor people with no where to go are left behind for no one to miss once they are sacrificed to the devil. It's a very hard world and sufficient today is the evil thereof.

Man, that is brutal. Seems possible. Anything else about this?

Chip wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 2:03 am

Juliet wrote: ↑December 9th, 2020, 7:57 pm

endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 7:42 pm

djinwa wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 7:06 pm

True, but I'm not sure if they're thinking things through. They're reinforcing the idea that groups are dangerous, so where is the future in church gatherings? If it isn't this virus, there will be another one.

Sunday I drove by a big movie theater (multiple theaters) in town, only a couple years old that has been closed since covid started. Saw a For Sale sign at the front door. That may be our churches soon.

Haven’t any of these men read the story of the boy who cried wolf? What happens when there’s an ACTUAL crisis? People will be tuned out due to the lack of credibility.

I think the real crisis is people losing their jobs and then their homes, just so they can be rounded up and gotten rid of just in time for no one to notice. Pretty sure this plan has been tested in hurricane areas where the poor people with no where to go are left behind for no one to miss once they are sacrificed to the devil. It's a very hard world and sufficient today is the evil thereof.

Man, that is brutal. Seems possible. Anything else about this?

Back with Hurricane Harvey there was a video going around of a reporter who asked a homeless man why he wasn't in the shelter. He said because they were killing people in there. I have every reason to believe this.

crabman wrote: ↑December 9th, 2020, 10:44 pm I have to be honest, the wearing of masks, especially at church goes against my conscience at a very deep level. It doesn't feel right. It goes against my feelings and beliefs, not to mention everything I've been taught about freedom, agency,
secret combinations, corruption, etc. Then to see an apostle say what he did about masks is like a punch in the gut.

ArticleofFaith 11:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Why don't we truly believe it? Let me worship according to the dictates of my own conscience

The Article of Faith cited referred to all the other religions on the Earth that believe differently from us. The Prophet himself made that contextually clear when he declared that he was just as willing to die for a Baptist to practice his faith as he was for a Mormon (not sure if that's the direct quote; I'll look it up.) The Nauvoo Charter also showed this amount of religious freedom even giving it to Jews and Mohammedeans (Muslims).

But in our faith there are rules to be followed. If you break some serious ones, like chastity, or embezzling funds if you are a leader, you will be kicked out. Break some minor ones, and you might not be able to participate in temple worship.

If you put out this argument, you would also have to accept that same argument made by the "Progmos" that they want gay marriage to happen in the Church...it is a total misreading of the 11th Article of Faith, and I cannot believe you are making that argument to justify separating yourselves from the temple for not wanting to wear a face covering.

Pioneers in the 19th Century: We traveled thousands of miles through sea and plains and mountains to make it to Zion and the Temple!

My wife's own parents: We traveled thousands of miles through deserts and mountains, and through strange languages and people, to get sealed in the Mesa temple.

Utah Mormons today: Please don't make me wear a mask in order to attend the temple.

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 4:49 am Pioneers in the 19th Century: We traveled thousands of miles through sea and plains and mountains to make it to Zion and the Temple!

My wife's own parents: We traveled thousands of miles through deserts and mountains, and through strange languages and people, to get sealed in the Mesa temple.

Utah Mormons today: Please don't make me wear a mask in order to attend the temple.

It’s not exactly like wearing a lapel pin (and being required to wear a lapel pin that promotes a lie would be bad enough), but masks are worse; they endanger the wearers in many ways AND violate the conscience of those who know very well that Covid is only a political move dressed up as FEAR.

I am surprised you would talk this way to others who cannot wear a lie to the temple. Do you see the irony in that?

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 4:49 am Pioneers in the 19th Century: We traveled thousands of miles through sea and plains and mountains to make it to Zion and the Temple!

My wife's own parents: We traveled thousands of miles through deserts and mountains, and through strange languages and people, to get sealed in the Mesa temple.

Utah Mormons today: Please don't make me wear a mask in order to attend the temple.

Can you really not see through the argument that it's much more than masks? A child is at greater risk of dying from a car accident on the way to school than dying from Covid, and we muzzle them with a mask, distance them from their friends, and destroy their education?! I call this child abuse, but we are being told it is a higher form of christ-like love.... ?

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 4:49 am Pioneers in the 19th Century: We traveled thousands of miles through sea and plains and mountains to make it to Zion and the Temple!

My wife's own parents: We traveled thousands of miles through deserts and mountains, and through strange languages and people, to get sealed in the Mesa temple.

Utah Mormons today: Please don't make me wear a mask in order to attend the temple.

What an unbelievably disingenuous argument.

endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 6:05 am

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 4:49 am Pioneers in the 19th Century: We traveled thousands of miles through sea and plains and mountains to make it to Zion and the Temple!

My wife's own parents: We traveled thousands of miles through deserts and mountains, and through strange languages and people, to get sealed in the Mesa temple.

Utah Mormons today: Please don't make me wear a mask in order to attend the temple.

What an unbelievably disingenuous argument.

The argument stands on itself. It shows how soft and whiny the current generation has become. The pioneers would be rolling in their graves to see their descendants today.

Now I know why the Gentiles are going to be wiped. They are unable to do the simplest of tasks. They fail to see the hypocrisy of their own arguments. They raise up to pedestals the past prophets, while stoning the present prophets.

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 6:48 am

endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 6:05 am

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 4:49 am Pioneers in the 19th Century: We traveled thousands of miles through sea and plains and mountains to make it to Zion and the Temple!

My wife's own parents: We traveled thousands of miles through deserts and mountains, and through strange languages and people, to get sealed in the Mesa temple.

Utah Mormons today: Please don't make me wear a mask in order to attend the temple.

What an unbelievably disingenuous argument.

The argument stands on itself. It shows how soft and whiny the current generation has become. The pioneers would be rolling in their graves to see their descendants today.

Now I know why the Gentiles are going to be wiped. They are unable to do the simplest of tasks. They fail to see the hypocrisy of their own arguments. They raise up to pedestals the past prophets, while stoning the present prophets.

No it doesn't stand up

The people who crossed the plains to go to Zion were going because of the truth

Mask-wearing is based on a lie

As for your reasoning why the Gentiles will be wiped, you have it completely backwards

The Pioneers are actually rolling in their graves to see the false teachings which people like yourself are so easily falling for

Luke wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 7:00 am

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 6:48 am

endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 6:05 am

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 4:49 am Pioneers in the 19th Century: We traveled thousands of miles through sea and plains and mountains to make it to Zion and the Temple!

My wife's own parents: We traveled thousands of miles through deserts and mountains, and through strange languages and people, to get sealed in the Mesa temple.

Utah Mormons today: Please don't make me wear a mask in order to attend the temple.

What an unbelievably disingenuous argument.

The argument stands on itself. It shows how soft and whiny the current generation has become. The pioneers would be rolling in their graves to see their descendants today.

Now I know why the Gentiles are going to be wiped. They are unable to do the simplest of tasks. They fail to see the hypocrisy of their own arguments. They raise up to pedestals the past prophets, while stoning the present prophets.

No it doesn't stand up

The people who crossed the plains to go to Zion were going because of the truth

Mask-wearing is based on a lie

As for your reasoning why the Gentiles will be wiped, you have it completely backwards

The Pioneers are actually rolling in their graves to see the false teachings which people like yourself are so easily falling for

The virus is real. Yes, government has, depending on the case, been exaggerated, but the virus is real. So, not a lie.

The preponderance of evidence shows that mask wearing helps to limit the spread. Not a lie.

Owners of private property reserve the right to refuse service to those who they feel might present a danger to those inside. Same thing happens in our chapels when someone that is wearing revealing clothing shows up to a youth stake dance. They are refused entry. And you know that is not a lie.

This is all whine and crying, a tantrum more fit for a three year old than for a fully grown person that supposedly has all of their mental faculties in place.

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 7:24 am
The preponderance of evidence shows that mask wearing helps to limit the spread. Not a lie.

You’re still on about this? Most people have been wearing masks going on 8 months now. Mask mandates have been implemented all over the world with continued spikes, and ebbs and flows AFTER said mandates. Did you not look at the charts I referenced you to the first time? There is zero correlation with mask wearing and “limiting the spread”. Wearing a mask is nothing but a feel good emotional response where you can signal your virtue to others.

ajax wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 7:47 am

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 7:24 am
The preponderance of evidence shows that mask wearing helps to limit the spread. Not a lie.

You’re still on about this? Most people have been wearing masks going on 8 months now. Mask mandates have been implemented all over the world with continued spikes, and ebbs and flows AFTER said mandates. Did you not look at the charts I referenced you to the first time? There is zero correlation with mask wearing and “limiting the spread”. Wearing a mask is nothing but a feel good emotional response where you can signal your virtue to others.

The mask is but one area where the spread is limited. In combination with hygiene and social distancing, they have been proven to work. As well as a general discipline of the people to the point where the government only has to issue recommendations instead of mandates.

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 6:48 am

endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 6:05 am

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 4:49 am Pioneers in the 19th Century: We traveled thousands of miles through sea and plains and mountains to make it to Zion and the Temple!

My wife's own parents: We traveled thousands of miles through deserts and mountains, and through strange languages and people, to get sealed in the Mesa temple.

Utah Mormons today: Please don't make me wear a mask in order to attend the temple.

What an unbelievably disingenuous argument.

The argument stands on itself. It shows how soft and whiny the current generation has become. The pioneers would be rolling in their graves to see their descendants today.

Now I know why the Gentiles are going to be wiped. They are unable to do the simplest of tasks. They fail to see the hypocrisy of their own arguments. They raise up to pedestals the past prophets, while stoning the present prophets.

Your argument is based on what is called a false equivalency. It’s spurious.

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 6:48 am

endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 6:05 am

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 4:49 am Pioneers in the 19th Century: We traveled thousands of miles through sea and plains and mountains to make it to Zion and the Temple!

My wife's own parents: We traveled thousands of miles through deserts and mountains, and through strange languages and people, to get sealed in the Mesa temple.

Utah Mormons today: Please don't make me wear a mask in order to attend the temple.

What an unbelievably disingenuous argument.

The argument stands on itself. It shows how soft and whiny the current generation has become. The pioneers would be rolling in their graves to see their descendants today.

Now I know why the Gentiles are going to be wiped. They are unable to do the simplest of tasks. They fail to see the hypocrisy of their own arguments. They raise up to pedestals the past prophets, while stoning the present prophets.

Funny guy...

You think folks who are against mask are soft...?

Do you know what hard is?

Are you hard ,my guy?

I'm against mask...does this make me soft?


Our forefathers would laugh at you masked up clowns. America is a bunch of terrified sheep running around with their faces covered... You ever seen so many people be so afraid to die?
You know what they did to people who advocated for the unconstitutional acts back in the day?

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 8:06 am

ajax wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 7:47 am

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 7:24 am
The preponderance of evidence shows that mask wearing helps to limit the spread. Not a lie.

You’re still on about this? Most people have been wearing masks going on 8 months now. Mask mandates have been implemented all over the world with continued spikes, and ebbs and flows AFTER said mandates. Did you not look at the charts I referenced you to the first time? There is zero correlation with mask wearing and “limiting the spread”. Wearing a mask is nothing but a feel good emotional response where you can signal your virtue to others.

The mask is but one area where the spread is limited. In combination with hygiene and social distancing, they have been proven to work. As well as a general discipline of the people to the point where the government only has to issue recommendations instead of mandates.

Bend your knee to mandates...you gritty hard guy . Our pioneers would be so proud of you!!!

How well do you think these government issued mandates would go in 1790??

Careful who you step with.... Don't tread on us. Don't be the advocate of tyrants

you look at the virus and you see it as a bigger deal than the government issuing unconstitutional mandates. Don't let yourself be brainwashed

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 7:24 am

The virus is real. Yes, government has, depending on the case, been exaggerated, but the virus is real. So, not a lie.

The lie is in the fraudulent PCR tests. They know what they're doing.


May I ask a simple question to gauge your knowledge on the subject:


What amplification cycle should PCR tests be set to in order to be accurate? What does the CDC say PCR amplification cycles should be set to?

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 7:24 am

Luke wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 7:00 am

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 6:48 am

endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 6:05 am

What an unbelievably disingenuous argument.

The argument stands on itself. It shows how soft and whiny the current generation has become. The pioneers would be rolling in their graves to see their descendants today.

Now I know why the Gentiles are going to be wiped. They are unable to do the simplest of tasks. They fail to see the hypocrisy of their own arguments. They raise up to pedestals the past prophets, while stoning the present prophets.

No it doesn't stand up

The people who crossed the plains to go to Zion were going because of the truth

Mask-wearing is based on a lie

As for your reasoning why the Gentiles will be wiped, you have it completely backwards

The Pioneers are actually rolling in their graves to see the false teachings which people like yourself are so easily falling for

The virus is real. Yes, government has, depending on the case, been exaggerated, but the virus is real. So, not a lie.

The preponderance of evidence shows that mask wearing helps to limit the spread. Not a lie.

Owners of private property reserve the right to refuse service to those who they feel might present a danger to those inside. Same thing happens in our chapels when someone that is wearing revealing clothing shows up to a youth stake dance. They are refused entry. And you know that is not a lie.

This is all whine and crying, a tantrum more fit for a three year old than for a fully grown person that supposedly has all of their mental faculties in place.

Go for it bro, but not me!

And the LIE is that Covid is some kind of uniquely dangerous condition that justifies seizing peoples’ God-given rights to peaceful assembly, freedom of religion, and shutting down entire economies, wrecking people’s lives and livelihoods. Mask wearing says that the narrative of the tyrants must be true. And there are many other lies embedded in that diabolical narrative. If you want to play along with it in order to go to the temple, have at it.

https://fort-russ.com/2020/05/dr-blaylo ... percapnia/

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 8:06 am The mask is but one area where the spread is limited. In combination with hygiene and social distancing, they have been proven to work.

For shits and giggles:

https://rationalground.com/more-mask-charts/

https://rationalground.com/post-thanksg ... asks-work/

.

crabman wrote: ↑December 9th, 2020, 10:44 pm Then to see an apostle say what he did about masks is like a punch in the gut.

• “What a pity it would be if we were led by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually.” (Brigham Young, JD 9:150, 12 January 1862)

• “We talk of obedience, but do we require any man or woman to ignorantly obey the counsels that are given? Do the first Presidency require it? No, never. What do they desire? That we may have our minds opened and our understandings enlarged, that we may comprehend all true principles for ourselves; then we will be easily governed thereby, we shall yield obedience with our eyes open, and it will be a pleasure for us to do so.” (Joseph F. Smith, JD 16:248, 7 October 1873)

New England Journal of Medicine on May 21, 2020:

We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection.

...It is also clear that masks serve symbolic roles.

Fauci says he wears mask as ‘symbol’ of good behavior

Fauci also said he chooses to wear a face covering “because I want to make it be a symbol for people to see that that’s the kind of thing you should be doing.”

Every morning I wake up to the lackeys on the radio tirading about either the essentials of masking up or how we all need to take the vaccine (they're always astonished how over half the public is planning to refuse vaccines). There's becoming a huge disconnect between actual reality and the reality according to the media. It's also weird to see such coordination among news sites and stations - we now have almost all the trappings of a regular communist state-run news setup.

nvr wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 10:51 am New England Journal of Medicine on May 21, 2020:

We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection.

...It is also clear that masks serve symbolic roles.

Fauci says he wears mask as ‘symbol’ of good behavior

Fauci also said he chooses to wear a face covering “because I want to make it be a symbol for people to see that that’s the kind of thing you should be doing.”

Every morning I wake up to the lackeys on the radio tirading about either the essentials of masking up or how we all need to take the vaccine (they're always astonished how over half the public is planning to refuse vaccines). There's becoming a huge disconnect between actual reality and the reality according to the media. It's also weird to see such coordination among news sites and stations - we now have almost all the trappings of a regular communist state-run news setup.

Yeah, and they believe if they can just shut down the means of people communicating anything contrary to what they want, their version of sanity will prevail and the world will be okay.

The worst thing about all of this is how many Americans have gotten on board with this oppression. They are really not fit to live under the Constitution.

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 8:24 am

samizdat wrote: ↑December 10th, 2020, 7:24 am

The virus is real. Yes, government has, depending on the case, been exaggerated, but the virus is real. So, not a lie.

The lie is in the fraudulent PCR tests. They know what they're doing.


May I ask a simple question to gauge your knowledge on the subject:


What amplification cycle should PCR tests be set to in order to be accurate? What does the CDC say PCR amplification cycles should be set to?

The CDC recommends a MAX of 40 cycles. 30 is usually sufficient to detect an infectious disease with a lot of accuracy.

More charts from a recent Tom Woods email:

In it he says, "Yinon Weiss (@yinonw) has been heroic through this fiasco, and he just released a series of charts, along with commentary, that I can't improve upon. So for today's issue I'm sharing them with you."

From the Yinon Weiss's twitter feed:

"Santa Clara County (CA) was the first in the US to lock down. They 'followed the science' with perhaps the longest lockdown in the world. Gyms never opened. Indoor dining *never* opened. How did that work out?"




"Connecticut is the home of Yale and many intellectuals, so surely they followed the science. Except now they have the highest per-capita case count in the country. What about all those masks, lockdowns, and the almighty #science?"



"Surely progressive Massachusetts, home to Harvard, MIT, and so many esteemed scientists, would follow the science. They used #science to require people to wear masks even if miles away from others in November. No schools, closed businesses, and a curfew. Surely that would work?"

(Continued)


"Let's visit the West Coast where highly scientific California loves following the science! Remember all those beach closures? Curfews, no schools, and destroyed businesses are a high price to pay, but surely it's worth it at the altar of #science. How is that working out?"



"But wait, maybe science was right and it's the people's fault! Even when separated by 2500 miles, the evil residents of CT, MA, and CA all decided to get lazy at the exact same time. So let's not blame false idol scientists and clueless politicians. Let's blame the people!"






"Ok ok, but it would be so much worse if they didn't follow the #science, right? Let's look at Florida, which effectively ended COVID restrictions on Sept 25th. Those crazies with their open schools, open business, and people who get to live their lives. Barbarians!"