LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **December 8th, 2020, 3:11 pm**

Chip wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 2:45 pm I think we Mormons will be the LAST Christians to face persecution, if we even make the list.

They're not going to find much objectionable from the leaders or KSL, or church newspapers, or anything.

Hmmm . . . . interesting thought.

Posted: **December 8th, 2020, 3:15 pm**

Benjamin_LK wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 8:05 am . . . . . There’s also people like me and my family who wore the mask, got it anyways, and now that I am over it, what’s the point of getting the vaccine when my immune system already dealt with it?

So you can get your mandatory vaccination card stamped and approved, allowing you to fly on planes, keep your job, maybe travel from one town to another, or travel out-of-state or to a foreign country, etc., etc.

Posted: **December 8th, 2020, 4:25 pm**

Why must our dear leaders always talk down to us like we are seven?

Posted: **December 8th, 2020, 4:27 pm**

One thing is astounding about the moment we are currently living in. Everybody is showing what side they are on.

Just saw this on zerohedge:

Update (1445ET): After retreating from his threats to impose a nationwide mask mandate, Joe Biden is urging Americans to wear masks when they leave home, claiming wearing them is "a patriotic act" not a "political move". As more scientists claim that schools should be allowed to reopen across the country amid data showing they don't contribute greatly to outbreaks, Biden insisted that reopening schools would be "a national priority", adding that "masks, shots and reopening schools" would be the priority.

This makes me think that some judgment of the Lord on our wicked system may come to pass any day. Those who are wicked, even secretly wicked, have exposed themselves for what they really stand for. It's like the contrast knob got turned way up so everybody can see.

Posted: **December 8th, 2020, 4:27 pm**

Aprhys wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 4:25 pm Why must our dear leaders always talk down to us like we are seven?

Maybe to disguise their true nature?

Posted: **December 8th, 2020, 5:00 pm**

Think about this. For a long time we've all suspected the FBI wasn't really about solving any crimes. It was also pretty apparent that the DOJ was captured. Now, the FBI spends its resources intimidating people who are testifying that the election was stolen. Everybody and institution is now fully ripening into what they've been becoming for a long time. Those early signs from decades ago coming from the FBI are now fully developed into total hostility towards what is right. It's like some kind of accelerant has been poured over every institution and person in the system and they are now sprinting in the direction that they have been slowly and secretly heading in for decades. It seems like this pace can't really be maintained, but is going to go up in a divine flash.

Posted: **December 8th, 2020, 6:40 pm**

I am awaiting for further light and knowledge from Pierre D'Electo!

Posted: **December 8th, 2020, 6:58 pm**

Great8 wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 6:40 pm I am awaiting for further light and knowledge from Pierre D'Electo!

Lololol

Posted: **December 8th, 2020, 7:06 pm**

ajax wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 10:21 am Guys, gals, remember, the Brethren are "churchmen" whose primary importance is to protect the institution. Wholly predictable.

True, but I'm not sure if they're thinking things through. They're reinforcing the idea that groups are dangerous, so where is the future in church gatherings? If it isn't this virus, there will be another one.

Sunday I drove by a big movie theater (multiple theaters) in town, only a couple years old that has been closed since covid started. Saw a For Sale sign at the front door. That may be our churches soon.

Posted: **December 8th, 2020, 7:42 pm**

djinwa wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 7:06 pm
ajax wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 10:21 am Guys, gals, remember, the Brethren are "churchmen" whose primary importance is to protect the institution. Wholly predictable.
True, but I'm not sure if they're thinking things through. They're reinforcing the idea that groups are dangerous, so where is the future in church gatherings? If it isn't this virus, there will be another one.

Sunday I drove by a big movie theater (multiple theaters) in town, only a couple years old that has been closed since covid started. Saw a For Sale sign at the front door. That may be our churches soon.

Haven’t any of these men read the story of the boy who cried wolf? What happens when there’s an ACTUAL crisis? People will be tuned out due to the lack of credibility.

Posted: **December 8th, 2020, 7:45 pm**

endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 7:42 pm
djinwa wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 7:06 pm
ajax wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 10:21 am Guys, gals, remember, the Brethren are "churchmen" whose primary importance is to protect the institution. Wholly predictable.
True, but I'm not sure if they're thinking things through. They're reinforcing the idea that groups are dangerous, so where is the future in church gatherings? If it isn't this virus, there will be another one.

Sunday I drove by a big movie theater (multiple theaters) in town, only a couple years old that has been closed since covid started. Saw a For Sale sign at the front door. That may be our churches soon.
Haven’t any of these men read the story of the boy who cried wolf? What happens when there’s an ACTUAL crisis? People will be tuned out due to the lack of credibility.

An actual crisis will be hidden from you for as long as possible. Just as many believe that people would be dying in the streets without these mandates, those same people would believe whatever excuse was provided for those actually dying in the streets in a real crisis. They would rather believe their masters and have pretend safety than face the truth and have to be responsible for their own lives.

Posted: **December 9th, 2020, 12:24 am**

Perhaps wearing a mask is a sign of Christlike love.

But I don't understand how turning away someone from attending the temple is a sign of Christlike love.

"You aren't being Christlike enough, please leave and attend another time when you are proving you have Christlike love by covering your face."

Posted: **December 9th, 2020, 12:24 am**

larsenb wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 3:15 pm
Benjamin_LK wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 8:05 am . . . . . There’s also people like me and my family who wore the mask, got it anyways, and now that I am over it, what’s the point of getting the vaccine when my immune system already dealt with it?
So you can get your mandatory vaccination card stamped and approved, allowing you to fly on planes, keep your job, maybe travel from one town to another, or travel out-of-state or to a foreign country, etc., etc.

For millions now who have already had it, it will be worthwhile keeping a lookout for a doctor willing to give you a certification on the basis of immunity acquired in the natural way, ie on the basis of antibodies and Tcells. That is also a vaccination, the one given by nature! -- skipping thereby the actual jab or jabs. Please just need the signature, doc! Is possible, this kind of a doctor's discretionary option? Ethical niceties involved?

Looking for a way to get around what is coming.

Posted: **December 9th, 2020, 9:02 am**

Serragon wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 1:08 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 12:04 pm I suggested that people who are not sick just go about their day, without masks, and allow their immune systems and their faith in Christ to protect them.

This is one response (By Common Consent)

——————————————————-
“Sick people should stay home, and healthy people should act normally, and exercise faith, which is a Christlike virtue, unlike mask-wearing.”

Why does this remind me of the fundamentalist Christians who dance with venomous snakes?

I’m wearing a mask and avoiding the people who won’t and who dance with venomous snakes like the plague.
——————————————————
Then they have been dancing with these snakes their whole lives and never known it. A person under 50 has a greater chance of dying of the flu than they do of COVID. Yet that even more venemous snake was never a problem for them.

And these people believe they think for themselves and are wise.

I don’t know about that. I have had the gut virus before and was aware that it could get me at any time, just exercise precautions and realize that it’s not 100 percent in your control.

Posted: **December 9th, 2020, 1:37 pm**

It occurred to me this morning that there is some special irony in the masking to get into the temple.

We do not come to the temple to hide from or escape the evils of the world. Rather, we come to the temple to receive the power of godliness through priesthood ordinances that enables us to confront and conquer the world of evil.”

So, we must go along with a bunch of evil in order to get into the temple where we will learn how to conquer the evil.

Posted: **December 9th, 2020, 2:14 pm**

Chip wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 4:27 pm One thing is astounding about the moment we are currently living in. Everybody is showing what side they are on.

Just saw this on zerohedge:

Update (1445ET): After retreating from his threats to impose a nationwide mask mandate, Joe Biden is urging Americans to wear masks when they leave home, claiming wearing them is "a patriotic act" not a "political move". As more scientists claim that schools should be allowed to reopen across the country amid data showing they don't contribute greatly to outbreaks, Biden insisted that reopening schools would be "a national priority", adding that "masks, shots and reopening schools" would be the priority.
This makes me think that some judgment of the Lord on our wicked system may come to pass any day. Those who are wicked, even secretly wicked, have exposed themselves for what they really stand for. It's like the contrast knob got turned way up so everybody can see.

I think Trump, like it or not, has played a big role in this. His nature is such that many people react to him in a negative way for even different reasons; and many of these project their own foibles/weaknesses onto the man.

This is in addition to his coming out against the globalists, who in turn have come out in full-bore attack on him.

Many of our LDS intellectual patricians can't stand DT, and resort to the nastiest accusatory/condemnatory name calling against him in public, all the while calling for "more civility". They have no inkling of how hypocritical this type of behavior is..

Posted: **December 9th, 2020, 2:24 pm**

nightlight wrote: ↑December 7th, 2020, 5:23 pm Not visiting the infectious is how you show love that is Christ like

(Sarcasm)

The " church " is bleeding.....if not careful........it will haemorrhage and bleed out. It (the church) is not so subtly leading its members......who are already compromised by lack of personal commitment to their own individuality and therefore agency....to be cast aside like seedlings that have fallen into unprofitable ground, where no firm foundation can be found. It is little wonder that the majority of members are oblivious to plain and precious truths God promised those faithful enough to forge a pathway towards spiritual enlightenment, in spite of the clear and present danger of societal degeneration and evils of conspiring men in these last days.

If the Christlike wearing of a face mask (or any other type of symbolic mask) is required by our leaders to a fake pandemic, then what hope do we have of avoiding the perpetuation of mind control techniques that subvert the will of God and His desire for all His Sons and Daughters to be imbued with such agency as is necessary to ascend spiritually.

Heaven help us if we should ever acquiesce, albeit blindly, to follow a pathway that leads directly to the large and spacious building in Lehi's dream.

Sadly, most members believe they are already on the strait and narrow path to the tree of life, when in actuality they probably are not.

The pathway to light and truth must include.....wait for it........light.....and....truth!

Members are far too comfortable relying on past glories and the arm of flesh e.g. relying upon another for ones own spiritual development........ Is it time Lord?

Posted: **December 9th, 2020, 2:26 pm**

larsenb wrote: ↑December 9th, 2020, 2:14 pm
Chip wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 4:27 pm One thing is astounding about the moment we are currently living in. Everybody is showing what side they are on.

Just saw this on zerohedge:

Update (1445ET): After retreating from his threats to impose a nationwide mask mandate, Joe Biden is urging Americans to wear masks when they leave home, claiming wearing them is "a patriotic act" not a "political move". As more scientists claim that schools should be allowed to reopen across the country amid data showing they don't contribute greatly to outbreaks, Biden insisted that reopening schools would be "a national priority", adding that "masks, shots and reopening schools" would be the priority.
This makes me think that some judgment of the Lord on our wicked system may come to pass any day. Those who are wicked, even secretly wicked, have exposed themselves for what they really stand for. It's like the contrast knob got turned way up so everybody can see.
I think Trump, like it or not, has played a big role in this. His nature is such that many people react to him in a negative way for even different reasons; and many of these project their own foibles/weaknesses onto the man.

This is in addition to his coming out against the globalists, who in turn have come out in full-bore attack on him.

Many of our LDS intellectual patricians can't stand DT, and resort to the nastiest accusatory/condemnatory name calling against him in public, all the while calling for "more civility". They have no inkling of how hypocritical this type of behavior is..

Yeah, it's part of the mass delusion of our times.

Posted: **December 9th, 2020, 2:33 pm**

I Dont Know... wrote: ↑December 9th, 2020, 2:24 pm
nightlight wrote: ↑December 7th, 2020, 5:23 pm Not visiting the infectious is how you show love that is Christ like

(Sarcasm)
The " church " is bleeding.....if not careful........it will haemorrhage and bleed out. It (the church) is not so subtly leading its members......who are already compromised by lack of personal commitment to their own individuality and therefore agency....to be cast aside like seedlings that have fallen into unprofitable ground, where no firm foundation can be found. It is little wonder that the majority of members are oblivious to plain and precious truths God promised those faithful enough to forge a pathway towards spiritual enlightenment, in spite of the clear and present danger of societal degeneration and evils of conspiring men in these last days.

If the Christlike wearing of a face mask (or any other type of symbolic mask) is required by our leaders to a fake pandemic, then what hope do we have of avoiding the perpetuation of mind control techniques that subvert the will of God and His desire for all His Sons and Daughters to be imbued with such agency as is necessary to ascend spiritually.

Heaven help us if we should ever acquiesce, albeit blindly, to follow a pathway that leads directly to the large and spacious building in Lehi's dream.

Sadly, most members believe they are already on the strait and narrow path to the tree of life, when in actuality they probably are not.

The pathway to light and truth must include.....wait for it........light.....and....truth!

Members are far too comfortable relying on past glories and the arm of flesh e.g. relying upon another for ones own spiritual development........ Is it time Lord?

I think you are right. Look at what is underneath the umbrella of the church these days. There are consevatives here on LDSFF and communists over on By Common Consent. These two groups are immiscible. It's no business model to court both. It can't work for a church, either, but Oaks' talk on Black Lives Matter was made to appeal to both groups' mutually-exclusive viewpoints. To what end?

Posted: **December 9th, 2020, 7:50 pm**

Perhaps Dale G. ought to read more CS Lewis:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58382

Posted: **December 9th, 2020, 7:57 pm**

endlessismyname wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 7:42 pm
djinwa wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 7:06 pm
ajax wrote: ↑December 8th, 2020, 10:21 am Guys, gals, remember, the Brethren are "churchmen" whose primary importance is to protect the institution. Wholly predictable.
True, but I'm not sure if they're thinking things through. They're reinforcing the idea that groups are dangerous, so where is the future in church gatherings? If it isn't this virus, there will be another one.

Sunday I drove by a big movie theater (multiple theaters) in town, only a couple years old that has been closed since covid started. Saw a For Sale sign at the front door. That may be our churches soon.
Haven’t any of these men read the story of the boy who cried wolf? What happens when there’s an ACTUAL crisis? People will be tuned out due to the lack of credibility.

I think the real crisis is people losing their jobs and then their homes, just so they can be rounded up and gotten rid of just in time for no one to notice. Pretty sure this plan has been tested in hurricane areas where the poor people with no where to go are left behind for no one to miss once they are sacrificed to the devil. It's a very hard world and sufficient today is the evil thereof.

Posted: **December 9th, 2020, 8:02 pm**

I checked out Dale R’s Facebook post featuring this video, and there are thousands of comments. I don’t have the fortitude to read them all, but the one that jumped out at me was along the line of “ I can’t believe how many people are criticizing Elder Renlund’s advise about wearing a mask.....”

So at least he is getting some feedback, and perhaps his media handlers will let the Q15 know there is some pushback.

Posted: **December 9th, 2020, 10:44 pm**

I have to be honest, the wearing of masks, especially at church goes against my conscience at a very deep level. It doesn't feel right. It goes against my feelings and beliefs, not to mention everything I've been taught about freedom, agency,
secret combinations, corruption, etc. Then to see an apostle say what he did about masks is like a punch in the gut.

ArticleofFaith 11:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Why don't we truly believe it? Let me worship according to the dictates of my own conscience

Posted: **December 10th, 2020, 12:23 am**

Crabman: "Then to see an apostle say what he did about masks is like a punch in the gut."

Exactly right! I literally do feel something churning inside. (Another time -- when I saw the Oaks Thanksgiving settee.)

I work through this -- my view versus an apostle's view -- as just an acceptable difference in opinion on something that is merely passingly cultural and situational, not salvific. Plus a daub of an intervening older generational news source habit on their part. I've stubbornly boycotted msm for the last 15 years. So a variance in viewpoints on some things is inevitable. Not a problem. Yet. But I have been surprised lately how fast I see myself starting to wonder about unexpected things.

Posted: **December 10th, 2020, 1:41 am**

I went to Dale Renlund's Facebook page and read a bunch of comments. They ranked like this:

1) Members praising Renlund and the mask message.
2) Members shaming members who were not on board with the mask message.
3) Members against masks because of their inefficacy.
4) Members against masks because the pandemic is a scam designed to steal liberty.

There was one ICU doctor who deals with COVID patients and said members have called him a liar. Another person runs a mortuary that is overly busy and members don't believe him.

I personally think there may be a pathogen out there, but it is mainly shortening old and sick people's lives. It seems to have displaced all occurrence of the regular flu.

I didn't see any comments about the fact that the church going along with the pandemic is just part of a larger package of New World Order involvements.

Overall, I think the church brainwashes a lot of people into seeing it as an infallible authority. It is nice to suppose there are these men that you can just follow and everything's going to be fine. It removes feelings of uncertainty to share this feeling of safety with lots of other members.

LDS Freedom Forum

"Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund

Re: "Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters." - Elder Renlund