Help me buy my first gun

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

You will be lucky to hit general area of the body in a rush situation. Most people don't have the training for percision under pressure. That is where your AK and shotgun type of weapons come in.

Just out of curiosity do you live in a high crime area? I do not ever see a need to kill if we are living the gospel. Of course I think it is good to have some preparation. 8)

[Blip]

Just out of curiosity do you live in a high crime area? I do not ever see a need to kill if we are living the gospel. Of course I think it is good to have some preparation. 8)

I am on a 3 month vacation in a very low crime area.

I do not ever see a need to kill if we are living the gospel.

This is the kind of mentality that concerns me. Bad things happen to good people all the time.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

Just out of curiosity do you live in a high crime area? I do not ever see a need to kill if we are living the gospel. Of course I think it is good to have some preparation. 8)

I am on a 3 month vacation in a very low crime area.

I do not ever see a need to kill if we are living the gospel.

This is the kind of mentality that concerns me. Bad things happen to good people all the time.

I believe I said that preparation is a good thing. Maybe I am wrong. Well that is what I meant. Pray for the best but prepare for the worse.

[M249Gunner]

I do not ever see a need to kill if we are living the gospel. Of course I think it is good to have some preparation. 8)

I am willing to bet the "Stripling Warriors" as well as Nephi, and many others lived the gospel, however I have a feeling they had to do a lot of killing to survive. It is extremely naive to believe that good gospel living people are never put in a position where they have to kill to keep themselves or their families safe or to preserve freedom.

If we were never to be put in a position to fight and kill if necessary to survive, I doubt the Lord would have told us what he did in Alma 43: 46

"46 And they were doing that which they felt was the duty which they owed to their God; for the Lord had said unto them, and also unto their fathers, that: Inasmuch as ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither the second, ye shall not suffer yourselves to be slain by the hands of your enemies."

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

I just re-read the posted question and I do not see where the writer asked "What gun should I buy so that I can become a one man killing machine?" They asked what gun to begin with and made it clear that expense was an issue. I think if money were not a factor and you wanted a gun with good killing ability then a simple 9mm would do. The best one I know of is the Springfield XD-9. It runs around $500 at most sports store. 8)

[Blip]

The best all round pistol in my opinion is the glock 20. The 10mm is a killer round. The kick is not bad with 20 and you can hunt with it.

[M249Gunner]

[quote="Gman007"]

How do you prepare to kill people?

[quote]

I suppose most people in the military are prepared to kill through their training. I have often prayed that I don't ever have to kill someone, however I have prayed that if I have to, it will be as clear to me as it was to Nephi when he killed Laban. I really don't want to be in hell for eternity, especially after trying very hard on earth to be righteous (not saying that I always succeed at trying).

[M249Gunner]

.22 rifle, Ruger 10-22.
.22 pistol (uses same ammo.)

I hear a lot of people who buy the powerful guns like AK-47, but I think a barrage of .22 from a semi auto can do as much damage and the ammo cost a lot less. Besides, what are you going to use it for? Hunting? The poor deer will be extinct within a few weeks of a major crisis. Personal protection will be the primary use. I have witnessed two people gunned down by a .22 pistol and sadly they both died. I think a .22 will be the most useful gun to you.

If our troops in Viet Nam and currently in Iraq and Afghanistan have had a hard time killing enemies with the lousy .223 (5.56), I wouldn't even consider a .22lr unless it were all I had. Then maybe I would throw rocks first (just kidding).

However, .22lr is great for training. Though, pellet rifles are too. The best shot in my former company (who was one of the sniper platoon) said he perfected his shooting abilities by setting up a target in his hallway in his home and practicing with his bb gun. You use the same principles to shoot a bb gun as you do a sniper rifle (breath, relax, aim, stop, squeeze; correct sight picture and sight alignment; proper shooting stance, windage, elevation, etc..). Except the bb gun recoils forward (I suppose that is a contradictory statement) and a sniper rifle recoils backward.

There are volumes of anecdotal evidence that a .22lr will kill, however it would be my very last choice. Especially when much better options are available. MAYBE, if you only had one weapon, and you couldn't afford to practice much with a real weapon, but you could afford to practice a lot with a .22lr, MAYBE then I would recommend buying one instead of something more substantial. Practice is one of the most important aspects to shooting.

I don't know how many fights would give a defender ample time to send a barrage of .22lr fire at one target. If it is a one on one fight, maybe. Even then, I would prefer a barrage of 7.62x39.

Here's another anecdotal story re: .22lr-A school cop told a high school class that I was in that a cop who was interrogating a prisoner shot the guy because he thought he was drawing a weapon on him. The prisoner reportedly asked him why he had punched him. He didn't even realize that he had been shot in the face. It turned out that the cop had overacted and the prisoner was unarmed. I don't know any more details to this story, so don't ask.

I guess the bottom line in my slightly humble opinion is the .22lr may be better than a kick in the pants as a defensive weapon.

[Blip]

With a 77 grain the 5.56 does just fine, but their have been some complaints. I didn't mind them, but we always had a few with a little more punch to compensate. That is why they developed the 6.5 and 6.8 ar-15 styles. Most of the 5.56 complaints have been at ranges over 400 meters. That round will go much farther than that but it is easy to get pinned down by heavier caliber weapons at let us say 800 meters. The 5.56 will kill at that range though, but I wold personally say that it has a range of no more than 400 meters (some say 800). I have argued this with people till we were blue in the face. Everyone will say something different and it might be right for them. The 7.62 x 39 packs a deadly punch but it gets 2 thumbs down for anything over 250 meters. Infact I would say the max effective range is 225 meters at the most. You can expect a 10 foot drop in the bullet at 500 meters the 5.56 is much less than that and you can carry twice as much ammo. If you don't like any of that then get a 6.5, 6.8, or a 308. They are far superior rounds for long range.

I have seen some people make some crazy shots with the 5.56 though. It really gets down to whatever is right for you, but stick with the more popular rounds. We don't need 50 different type weapons running around with weird calibers. That would be a mess.

[Blip]

I wanted a Saiga 12 but the want darn near 600 for them now.

[Blip]

I could have picked up a Robinson Arms XCR

Excellent choice. Better design. Try about 1400 now you lucky..........If you can find them, or anything right now for that matter. I got an extra spring kit for my little M4 and was very happy with that. Oh, how times is changing.

[Blip]

Get them all. You will be able to deal in a few. We will all be black market specialists in the future. Or hunted down. Either way it will be fun.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

Just tools...need different tools for different jobs...KIS though!

I think if I am going to grab a gun for self defense I do not want to be saying "This is good but I like this one. Gosh, which one do I want to use?" I just want to have one that does the job and stops the attack. I think if you have some time what you do is grap your 9mm or .45 and tell your wife to lock the bedroom door with the kids and call 911. Leave a shotgun with her and tell her to only open up if it is you or the cops. That way if the handgun fails you and you get killed then she can take them out as they come through the door. Worst case scenario!

[lamanite]

Just tools...need different tools for different jobs...KIS though!

I think if I am going to grab a gun for self defense I do not want to be saying "This is good but I like this one. Gosh, which one do I want to use?" I just want to have one that does the job and stops the attack. I think if you have some time what you do is grap your 9mm or .45 and tell your wife to lock the bedroom door with the kids and call 911. Leave a shotgun with her and tell her to only open up if it is you or the cops. That way if the handgun fails you and you get killed then she can take them out as they come through the door. Worst case scenario!

In a societal breakdown situation, it will be useful to have multiple guns. Family and friends may be staying with you once they lose their homes. You may end up at their place once it becomes too difficult to constantly protect your own home by yourself. Neighborhoods may band together to do neighborhood patrols and you would probably gladly let your neighbor use your spare AR-15 instead of him covering you with his bolt action 22. Also, guns and parts could become scarce and backups are always good to have. How does that saying go? When it comes to preparedness two is one and one is none?

[bobhenstra]

I know well my house and property, where all the hiding places are, I have a weapon hid but easily accessible in every place. I'll let the bad guy come to me----

A shotgun is a good choice. Mine is a Winchester 1200 with a scoped separate slug barrel, it's very accurate out to 150 yards. I pour and load my own slugs using a very inexpensive Lee Loader. I also have plenty of 00 buckshot, #4 buckshot and plenty of birdshot. The birdshot is also very effective at short range as a weapon, it'll blow a big hole in any flesh out to about ten yards, but not carry into another room or neighbors home. And anyone shot in the face with birdshot isn't likely to offer up much resistance.

However, I have several other choices if needed.

Bob

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

Of course it would be fun to have a AR-15 that would let you go full on Rock and Roll. BooYah! 8)

[ShawnC]

I know well my house and property, where all the hiding places are, I have a weapon hid but easily accessible in every place. I'll let the bad guy come to me----

A shotgun is a good choice. Mine is a Winchester 1200 with a scoped separate slug barrel, it's very accurate out to 150 yards. I pour and load my own slugs using a very inexpensive Lee Loader. I also have plenty of 00 buckshot, #4 buckshot and plenty of birdshot. The birdshot is also very effective at short range as a weapon, it'll blow a big hole in any flesh out to about ten yards, but not carry into another room or neighbors home. And anyone shot in the face with birdshot isn't likely to offer up much resistance.

However, I have several other choices if needed.

Bob

I know where all your hiding places are also Bob.

[Oldemandalton]

The birdshot is also very effective at short range as a weapon, it'll blow a big hole in any flesh out to about ten yards, but not carry into another room or neighbors home

This is the philosophy behind the ‘improvised slug’ I wrote about earlier in this thread.

Improvised slugs: Take any shell with bird shot, pry it open, pour out the shot. While replacing the shot add melted wax. Make sure all the pellets return, then close shell back up. This creates the equivalent of a Glazer safety round for your shot gun. The majority of the pellets stay together instead of spread and their energy is transferred to the target. Less likely to over penetrate the walls of your home and hit a family member. When they hit they spread out inside the target doing lots of damage

OMD

[bobhenstra]

"Have I tested this "theory?" Yes, against plywood at ten yards. As I mentioned before, I load my own, but adding wax isn't necessary. I mentioned that I have a scope on my shotgun rifled barrel, I can also shoot birdshot through that barrel from the hip with good close range accuracy. I wanted an all around weapon and the shotgun serves that purpose. The only drawback being bulky ammo, being limited to 7 rounds without reloading I don't consider a problem, one will be sufficient.

Shawn, I won't be expecting "you" to test me, if you know me, you'd know that'd be very unwise of you---

Bob

[Oldemandalton]

The wax allows the shot to stay together down range. This makes bird shot more effect at longer ranges. If it's all you have left then the 'improvised slug' will improve your chances in a combat situaltion.


OMD

[NoGreaterLove]

I have a question. Who needs a gun anyway?

[Blip]

I have a question. Who needs a gun anyway?

Because sister. There are 6 billion people in this world and half of them want to kill us.

[NoGreaterLove]

Why do you think that?

[Blip]

Why do you think that?

Because our foreign relations sucks. And people around the world want to kill us.

Why do you think they don't?

[NoGreaterLove]

Just messin with ya Blip. Got me own pea shooters.