Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

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LDSNZ
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Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by LDSNZ »

Hi,

1. What does the LORD mean when he says that: " I will make thy horn iron"?

and

2. "I will make thy hoofs brass"?

Your feedback is much appreciated.

Thanks a bunch :)

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Alexander
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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by Alexander »

1.)I will make thy horn iron (power unshakable)

2.)and I will make thy hoofs brass (strength quick)

“signifying that the Lord would give them strength sufficient to such work, and such power their enemies should not be able to resist and overcome; and that they should into their hands, and be crushed, trod, and trampled on by them, and utterly subdued. The allusion is to oxen that have horns and hoofs; and it suggests that they should be as strong as they; have horns like them, that is, power to push down their enemies and hoofs to trample upon them”

https://www.biblestudytools.com/comment ... -4-13.html

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LDSNZ
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Thankyou Alexander

Post by LDSNZ »

That's awesome :)

Alaris
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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by Alaris »

I think another possible meaning is a conditional promise made unconditional - i.e. unbreakable.

Think of the Rod of Aaron budding to show which tribe had the right to the Priesthood, and specifically the office of High Priest. Yet that same rod points forward to the rod of iron of Revelation 12.

D&C 121:46 The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.

The horn is a kingly symbol - they were used for anointing and for announcing, like the Shofar. There's a feast of trumpets as one of the seven high holy days, and the horn symbol is central there. Announcing royalty is absolutely one of the themes there - along with the anointing oil.

Wow ... I didn't think of this connection before for the feast of trumpets but check this out:

1 Samuel 16:1 And the Lord said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Beth-lehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons.

The choosing of a new king ... the one whose right it is.

So I'm sure this all coincidental to where the source reference comes from right?

Mike 4:13 Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.

Would you look at that? The Daughter of ZION .... the heiress to the heir. Who anoints a man at the second anointing? Who anointed Jesus' head? Who anointed Jesus' feet. There you go - make thine horn iron and thy hooves (feet) brass. An everlasting kingdom.


Man ... if only the Lord Himself expounded upon this ..... oh wait, what's this!?

3 Nephi 20:16 Then shall ye, who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them; and ye shall be in the midst of them who shall be many; and ye shall be among them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, and as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he goeth through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.
17 Thy hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.
18 And I will gather my people together as a man gathereth his sheaves into the floor.
19 For I will make my people with whom the Father hath covenanted, yea, I will make thy horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass. And thou shalt beat in pieces many people; and I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth. And behold, I am he who doeth it.
20 And it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that the sword of my justice shall hang over them at that day; and except they repent it shall fall upon them, saith the Father, yea, even upon all the nations of the Gentiles.


Dang - the Lord brings several OT scriptures together here - I'm seeing both Micah and Isaiah in chapter 20 here. The coming kingdom of God, and the king ... and the queen.

Alaris
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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by Alaris »

Oh and hooves... Red heifer is a symbol of matriarchy...

Look at the heifer in facsimile 2.

Hathors yoke is the same symbol of the heifers yoke.

More on that symbol along with other highly synchronous symbols here

viewtopic.php?t=52612

Thy hooves brass.

Weren't there brass feet involved in Nebuchadnezzars dream?

4Joshua8
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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by 4Joshua8 »

Sometimes it helps me to read alternate translations. I might go through 2, 3, or 4 before I feel satisfied. This one is Strong's NASB 1977 of Micah 4. I feel like it catches a lot of the intent.

1 And it will come about in the last days
That the mountain of the house of the LORD
Will be established as the chief of the mountains.
It will be raised above the hills,
And the peoples will stream to it.

2 And many nations will come and say,
“Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD
And to the house of the God of Jacob,
That He may teach us about His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For from Zion will go forth the law,
Even the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

3 And He will judge between many peoples
And render decisions for mighty, distant nations.
Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares
And their spears into pruning hooks;
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
And never again will they train for war.

4 And each of them will sit under his vine
And under his fig tree,
With no one to make them afraid,
For the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken.

5 Though all the peoples walk
Each in the name of his god,
As for us, we will walk
In the name of the LORD our God forever and ever.

6 “In that day,” declares the LORD,
“I will assemble the lame,
And gather the outcasts,
Even those whom I have afflicted.

7 “I will make the lame a remnant,
And the outcasts a strong nation,
And the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion
From now on and forever.

8 “And as for you, tower of the flock,
Hill of the daughter of Zion,
To you it will come—
Even the former dominion will come,
The kingdom of the daughter of Jerusalem.

9 “Now, why do you cry out loudly?
Is there no king among you,
Or has your counselor perished,
That agony has gripped you like a woman in childbirth?

10 “Writhe and labor to give birth,
Daughter of Zion,
Like a woman in childbirth,
For now you will go out of the city,
Dwell in the field,
And go to Babylon.
There you will be rescued;
There the LORD will redeem you
From the hand of your enemies.

11 “And now many nations have been assembled against you
Who say, ‘Let her be polluted,
And let our eyes gloat over Zion.’

12 “But they do not know the thoughts of the LORD,
And they do not understand His purpose;
For He has gathered them like sheaves to the threshing floor.

13 “Arise and thresh, daughter of Zion,
For your horn I will make iron
And your hoofs I will make bronze,
That you may pulverize many peoples,
That you may devote to the LORD their unjust gain
And their wealth to the Lord of all the earth.
Last edited by 4Joshua8 on July 23rd, 2020, 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by BruceRGilbert »

Iron and brass: metals, inferring "technology."

4Joshua8
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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by 4Joshua8 »

4Joshua8 wrote: July 22nd, 2020, 11:45 pm Sometimes it helps me to read alternate translations. I might go through 2, 3, or 4 before I feel satisfied. This one is Strong's NASB 1977 of Micah 4. I feel like it catches a lot of the intent.

1 And it will come about in the last days
That the mountain of the house of the LORD
Will be established as the chief of the mountains.
It will be raised above the hills,
And the peoples will stream to it.

2 And many nations will come and say,
“Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD
And to the house of the God of Jacob,
That He may teach us about His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For from Zion will go forth the law,
Even the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

1 and 2: Zion in America, but I wouldn't be surprised if a similar thing happens in old Jerusalem. I expect pilgrimage to both places to be common for some time.

3 And He will judge between many peoples
And render decisions for mighty, distant nations.
Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares
And their spears into pruning hooks;
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
And never again will they train for war.

4 And each of them will sit under his vine
And under his fig tree,
With no one to make them afraid,
For the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken.

3 and 4: Outstanding conflicts between people and nations will be successfully mediated, and true peace and fellowship will be established.

5 Though all the peoples walk
Each in the name of his god,
As for us, we will walk
In the name of the LORD our God forever and ever.

5: I'm uncertain. It seems like it intended to say that no longer will there be those who go after false Gods, but it might instead be saying that there will still be people with differing beliefs about God but that at least there will be true peace.

6 “In that day,” declares the LORD,
“I will assemble the lame,
And gather the outcasts,
Even those whom I have afflicted.

7 “I will make the lame a remnant,
And the outcasts a strong nation,
And the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion
From now on and forever.

6 and 7: The 10 tribes, the remnant of Lehi and Mulek, and the Jews are all a remnant to be gathered. The remaining Gentiles of covenant Israel who are righteous will be foster fathers and nursing mothers to them and will help provide teachings and ordinances. Other outcasts may be Gentiles who weren't yet sanctified at the beginning of tribulation but who were sanctified through the process of tribulation and became ready thereby for the gathering.

8 “And as for you, tower of the flock,
Hill of the daughter of Zion,
To you it will come—
Even the former dominion will come,
The kingdom of the daughter of Jerusalem.

The promised kingdom is set up, as before.

9 “Now, why do you cry out loudly?
Is there no king among you,
Or has your counselor perished,
That agony has gripped you like a woman in childbirth?

I love this, because I see this very thing happening daily on this forum. How many of us are crying loudly that there is no righteous king among us, even that servant God promised to send? And some are aware that the church is giving birth to the kingdom.

10 “Writhe and labor to give birth,
Daughter of Zion,
Like a woman in childbirth,
For now you will go out of the city,
Dwell in the field,
And go to Babylon.
There you will be rescued;
There the LORD will redeem you
From the hand of your enemies.

This reminds me of Revelations where the church escapes into the wilderness for a few years from the flood sent out, and the earth swallows it.

11 “And now many nations have been assembled against you
Who say, ‘Let her be polluted,
And let our eyes gloat over Zion.’

Enemies see Zion's condition. They conspire against it in a time of tribulation.

12 “But they do not know the thoughts of the LORD,
And they do not understand His purpose;
For He has gathered them like sheaves to the threshing floor.

Little do they know that God suffers them to be there for a wise purpose.

13 “Arise and thresh, daughter of Zion,
For your horn I will make iron
And your hoofs I will make bronze,
That you may pulverize many peoples,
That you may devote to the LORD their unjust gain
And their wealth to the Lord of all the earth.

The "wealth" and possessions that the enemies unjustly gained becomes the possession of the people, who consecrate it to the LORD.
Added commentary.

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righteousrepublic
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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by righteousrepublic »

3 Nephi 20:17-22
17 Thy hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.
18 And I will gather my people together as a man gathereth his sheaves into the floor.
19 For I will make my people with whom the Father hath covenanted, yea, I will make thy horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass. And thou shalt beat in pieces many people; and I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth. And behold, I am he who doeth it.
20 And it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that the sword of my justice shall hang over them at that day; and except they repent it shall fall upon them, saith the Father, yea, even upon all the nations of the Gentiles.
21 And it shall come to pass that I will establish my people, O house of Israel.
22 And behold, this people will I establish in this land, unto the fulfilling of the covenant which I made with your father Jacob; and it shall be a New Jerusalem. And the powers of heaven shall be in the midst of this people; yea, even I will be in the midst of you.

What is the covenant?
Leviticus 26:12
12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.

Compare 3 Nephi 20:19 with Micah

Micah 4:13
13 Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.

Doctrine and Covenants 63:1–6
1 Hearken, O ye people, and open your hearts and give ear from afar; and listen, you that call yourselves the people of the Lord, and hear the word of the Lord and his will concerning you.
2 Yea, verily, I say, hear the word of him whose anger is kindled against the wicked and rebellious;
3 Who willeth to take even them whom he will take, and preserveth in life them whom he will preserve;
4 Who buildeth up at his own will and pleasure; and destroyeth when he pleases, and is able to cast the soul down to hell.
5 Behold, I, the Lord, utter my voice, and it shall be obeyed.
6 Wherefore, verily I say, let the wicked take heed, and let the rebellious fear and tremble; and let the unbelieving hold their lips, for the day of wrath shall come upon them as a whirlwind, and all flesh shall know that I am God.


Horn = Last Days
...........................................................................................................................................................................
Perhaps, so that Israel can thresh the nations, the iron horn and brass hooves are given of God to accomplish the work.

This idea did not originate from me. I got it from: https://feastuponthewordblog.org/2010/0 ... ing-micah/

But it sounds plausible. You decide.

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Pazooka
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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by Pazooka »

Ok, so I thought horn was a seat of power - as in the beast of Revelation with ten horns. The etymology of the word horn can also be linked to “corner,” which might be significant because Jesus is the cornerstone.

There are also four horns on the altar of Israel; are they horns or are they corners? Do these corners represent seats of power having to do with the earth? And why would they need to have the blood of the sacrifice applied to them, ritually?

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nightlight
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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by nightlight »

Spiritual Alchemy.

The changed and added upon.....

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Pazooka
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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by Pazooka »

Taking another look at it - more specifically, John the Revelatory uses horns to represent kings. So who would the hooves be? Probably military? (“Top brass”) - those who do the actual trampling

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righteousrepublic
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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by righteousrepublic »

Pazooka wrote: July 23rd, 2020, 11:36 am Taking another look at it - more specifically, John the Revelatory uses horns to represent kings. So who would the hooves be? Probably military? (“Top brass”) - those who do the actual trampling
Promise of Judgments, Promise of Salvation

(11-10) Micah 4:8–13. If Jerusalem Is Overthrown and Her People Scattered, How Will She Then Become Great?

Micah used the figure of travail or childbirth to illustrate that Judah would bring upon herself the pain out of which would eventually come a new life in the Lord. Shortly she would be driven from her city and find herself a captive of Babylon. This prophecy is amazing because Assyria was mistress of the world in Micah’s day, Babylon being only a province of Assyria. This part of Micah’s vision projected nearly 130 years into the future, but time is nothing to a prophet. Then, looking several millennia into the future, Micah saw Israel return in the strength of God. Using the symbol of horns like iron and hooves like brass, he predicted that Israel would trample her enemies as easily as an ox threshes grain.

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Pazooka
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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by Pazooka »

Just found this, by Robert Smith:
Brass is a common [metaphor] that we have seen often and it stands for messiah. In Acts 21:8-9 we read of the fiery serpents that bit the people on the exodus. Moses made a brass serpent and put it on a pole. When the people who were bitten by a snake looked on it, they would be healed. This is a prophetic metaphor of the coming of the Savior, Jesus Christ, who would be hung on a pole, or cross, and would provide saving power to all who looked to him for eternal life. Both words, nahash and nehosh, snake and brass respectively, are from the same root, nhsh. These two words have a numerical value of 358 which we call their simple gemetria. The word for messiah, moshiach, also has a value of 358. This is one method of encoding and from that relationship, we can decode the two terms, snake and brass to mean messiah.
So, something else to think about is whether or not the Lord’s making the hooves brass could mean that the military-like force doing the trampling will be the Messiah (or a messiah figure) - as in He will fight our battles (??)

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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by onefour1 »

3 Nephi 22:17
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall revile against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

D&C 45:68-70
68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

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Re: Query - 3 Nephi 20:19

Post by abijah` »

makes me think of nebuchadnezzar's dream, "brass" and "iron"
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