LDS Freedom Forum

Certainly good points, DrJ!

OMD,

What you can do until they come a’ callin’ is to get neighbors together and form patrols to keep the trouble makers at bay. If the criminal minded see a well defended town or farming area they will move to greener pastures.

What if those who come a callin' are UN troops, invited by the PTB? Or even special US military, with orders to take you to FEMA camps? This is where what one thinks about 9/11 etc. comes into sharp focus!

(PS -- I'm traveling, gone for a time... best)

straightarrow wrote:Certainly good points, DrJ!

Dr.J! I like that. I'm gonna use that if it's OK with you Steven?

Shawn

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Survival-R ... 36&sr=1-11

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Weapons-Ca ... 536&sr=1-6

http://www.amazon.com/Ragnars-Urban-Sur ... 536&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Starting-New-Life ... 536&sr=1-1

Dr. Jones, I do worry about a large quake along the Wasatch Front. I think that might be the start of our woes. Do you not worry about the New Madrid fault and a possible quake in your area?

[From Straightarrow;
What if those who come a callin' are UN troops, invited by the PTB? Or even special US military, with orders to take you to FEMA camps? This is where what one thinks about 9/11 etc. comes into sharp focus!]

Remember they will be dealing with the big cities on both coasts and mid-west which they will feel are more important than small towns/rural areas or even the cities on the Wasatch Front. I believe that the anarchy that will be experienced in Utah and Idaho will be over long before the Troops can pacify the big cities, even if it is possible. Maybe they’ll just give up, cordon off the city and let it die like in the movie “Escape from New York”. Like I said, anyone will welcome the FEMA/refugee camps over starvation and anarchy. Unless of course you are single and can survive on your own. Just make sure you are watching the sign posts and take the exit in time.

Dr Jones, you may be right about earthquakes. This would be my choice, stay in Las Vegas and try and guard my house from; looters, gangs, pyromaniacs, anarchists, and then UN troops, OR weathering an earthquake in a tent in my brother’s backyard in Provo Valley. I think I’ll take the earthquake. Another option I have is to buy a vacation/retirement home/retreat nearby in central Nevada or southern Utah. This is my goal but I have not the funds yet. Otherwise it’s my brother’s backyard.

As for all the Girls Camps that the Church owns, these will not hold a fraction of the refugees that will be pouring into the Rockies. Idaho/Utah will be the last place in America that will be upholding the Constitution and all freedom loving people will be flocking there. If you think about it 2 or more families can live in a modern US home where only 1 lives today. So I imagine most of the Saints will open up their homes to the refugees or at least to relatives who will be arriving. Most of the refugees will be sent to smaller communities and valleys all along the Rockies. It would be a waste of resources to put them all in Salt Lake/Provo Valleys. They will be distributed so that farms and gardens could be tended and food grown for all of the influx of people. I bet you that the Brethren has all of this planed out and are preparing right now for this eventuality. Why would the Lord and His Prophets teach a year supply and preparation to the members since Brigham Young and not do it themselves?

OMD

oldemandalton said

If you think about it 2 or more families can live in a modern US home where only 1 lives today. So I imagine most of the Saints will open up their homes to the refugees or at least to relatives who will be arriving. Most of the refugees will be sent to smaller communities and valleys all along the Rockies

This is how I think it will go down, also. That's why I am storing extra food. I have many relatives and others who could possibly seek shelter with my family. That's the scenario I'm hoping for, at least.

With the economy the way it is, I think we'll see families sharing their homes anyway. My sister and her husband rent our basement apartment and my father lives with us. Many other cultures already do this, too, so it's going to be one solution for stressed families.

The problem, OMD, is that less than 15% of the LDS have ANY food storage along the Wasatch front, according to the informal statistics that we have, with roughly 3% having a year's supply. So let's say that is all shared, 3% shared amongst all the people. How long will that last? I get LESS THAN TWO WEEKS, you can stretch that a week or two more maybe, then it's gone. You see the problem?

AS A PEOPLE, IT SEEMS CLEAR WE'RE NOT DOING WHAT THE PROPHETS HAVE ASKED about food storage, or about getting out of debt either. People seem to think "all is well in Zion" 2 Nephi 28 warning ignored?

So -- is that the place you want to come to, along with its high earthquake potential, for the last days? With inadequate farm land to feed themselves for very long? Can anyone show me where modern prophets have urged people to come to the Wasatch front?

Please think of a better "place of refuge"... There are several IMO!
(True, it depends on the emergency... that's why we need more than one to go to, and we need INSPIRATION for our own families/stewardships.)


Kathyn:

Dr. Jones, I do worry about a large quake along the Wasatch Front. I think that might be the start of our woes.
Do you not worry about the New Madrid fault and a possible quake in your area?

The New Madrid fault is near Paducah KY and is a long ways from Adam-ondi, about 500 miles away. That's about TWICE the distance from Provo to St. George. Really not much danger from equakes that far away. Note that NW Mo is not where I spend most of my time lately, however...

Dalton, come on man, no camping trailer?? Nothing to pull it with? All simple fixes! I have 5 acres of great farming land. Except for my rather large drive way, 3 maybe four camping trailers there, (already claimed by my kids) not many tents or camping trailors will fit, my farm will be farmed. My ward has a great preparedness program, the ward and stake leaders know who all the dr's and nurses are, who the electricians are, how to creat our own power to pump water using woodgas, security, what house will be the hospital, every needed catagory is covered. Even netting fish from the lake is covered. Each family is required to do its best.

After an earthquake or other disaster, it'll take a bit of time for people to pull together, but when that happens amazing things will happen. I've seen it before, what people can do when they pull together with a great someone in charge. To be honest, I can hardly wait! We have more then several great someone's! For we who are as prepared as possible, it's going to be an exciting time! And if your not prepared, and scared spitless, who's fault is that?

Steve talks about getting together with small groups of families, that's great, exactly what we have here. I wouldn't move outa this town for all the gold in Ft Knox,--- paving roads isn't my thing!

Bob

[From Dr Jones;
So -- is that the place you want to come to, along with its high earthquake potential, for the last days? With inadequate farm land to feed themselves for very long? Can anyone show me where modern prophets have urged people to come to the Wasatch front?
Please think of a better "place of refuge"... There are several IMO!]

Brigham Young said”…It will be Christian against Christian, and man against man, and those who will not take up their sword against their neighbor must flee to Zion. We are blessed in these Mountains; this is the best place on earth for the Latter day Saints. Search for the history of all nations and every geographical position on the face of the earth, and you cannot find another situation so well adapted for the Saints as are these mountains. Here is the place in which the Lord designed to hide His people…It has been designed, for many generations, to hide up the Saints in the last days, until the indignation of the Almighty be over. His wrath will be poured out upon the nations of the earth.” Deseret News, Vol.11, No 9, May 1, 1861. Orson Pratt, Wilford Woodruff, and others echoed Pres Young’s statements. See “Prophecy-Key to the Future” by Duane S. Crowther pages 58-62.

What Brigham Young said is true. Look at a geographical map of Idaho, Utah, and Eastern Nevada. You will see how God prepared this area and how it was “designed to hide His people”. You have the Rockies in the East and North, The Grand Canyon on the South, the Nevada desert on the West. In between you have fertile valleys.

I did a little internet search and found that Utah has a wide variety of food and manufacturing available. There’s; Natural gas, oil, and coal. There are almost 4,000 manufacturing firms producing everything from guns, furniture, machine shops, etc. There are steel and oil refineries and sawmills.

There is a great deal of food production too. In 2004 Utah produced; 3.44 million bushels of barley, 696,000 bushels of wheat, and 624,000 bushels of oats. You will also find; corn, fruits, vegetables, dairy, cattle, mutton/wool, and poultry. This production could increase with more man power and a great need.



[From Bob;
Dalton, come on man, no camping trailer?? Nothing to pull it with? All simple fixes! I have 5 acres of great farming land. Except for my rather large drive way, 3 maybe four camping trailers there, (already claimed by my kids) not many tents or camping trailors will fit, my farm will be farmed. My ward has a great preparedness program, the ward and stake leaders know who all the dr's and nurses are, who the electricians are, how to creat our own power to pump water using woodgas, security, what house will be the hospital, every needed catagory is covered. Even netting fish from the lake is covered. Each family is required to do its best.

After an earthquake or other disaster, it'll take a bit of time for people to pull together, but when that happens amazing things will happen. I've seen it before, what people can do when they pull together with a great someone in charge. To be honest, I can hardly wait! We have more then several great someone's! For we who are as prepared as possible, it's going to be an exciting time! And if your not prepared, and scared spitless, who's fault is that?

Steve talks about getting together with small groups of families, that's great, exactly what we have here. I wouldn't move outa this town for all the gold in Ft Knox,--- paving roads isn't my thing!]

I envy you Bob, sounds like your Ward has it together. I just hope you are not in the path of gangs, marauders, or armies. I have a M715 w/ trailer, mini-van, and small car. Looking to purchase a small camp trailer soon too. I like to rough it but am getting soft in my old age. I wont be able to stay here long. Vegas Valley has close to 1.5 million people. We are surrounded by desert, no food or water. This place will be one big dead zone if anarchy hits.

I believe that the gathering will begin with the Stakes. If it is safe for them then The Lord just may leave them where they be. On the other hand don't be like the Saints at Hawn's Mill. They were told by the Prophet Joseph to move closer in to the rest of the Saints. The Bishop and other members felt safe and tarried too long. Many we killed and wounded during the masacre. We need to make sure we listen to our Prophet. There in lies safety and salvation.

OMD

oldemandalton said;

I believe that the gathering will begin with the Stakes. If it is safe for them then The Lord just may leave them where they be. On the other hand don't be like the Saints at Hawn's Mill. They were told by the Prophet Joseph to move closer in to the rest of the Saints. The Bishop and other members felt safe and tarried too long. Many were killed and wounded during the masacre. We need to make sure we listen to our Prophet

This is truly the key. Again, it comes down to listening to the Prophet. I do believe that the Lord wants to protect most of the righteous. They'll be needed in the days to come. There will be much for the Saints to do while the rest of the world is in commotion. After the initial cleansing, if we survive that, I believe the Lord will have a great purpose for us. Personally, if I am righteous and doing what I've been asked, it doesn't matter if I survive these trials or not. I'll still be okay. I'd like to be around to help my children and grandchildren if it doesn't interfere with the grand scheme of things.

The Rocky Mtns are a big place, OMD. I'm concerned that many along the Wasatch Front are not paying heed to warnings about earthquake potentials along this front. There is a huge amount of energy stored in the Wasatch fault zone. Ditto the San Andreas fault zone.

Getting out of Vegas seems a very good idea. But will you move to the Wasatch front, or somewhere else in the rockies?

The Savior warned about earthquakes in the last days, and something about difficulties commencing -- where?

It is not enough to store our food, we must all learn to make our food. Make our tools. Make our clothes. The time for learning is best before the need, not during the need.

[From Dr Jones;
The Rocky Mtns are a big place, OMD. I'm concerned that many along the Wasatch Front are not paying heed to warnings about earthquake potentials along this front. There is a huge amount of energy stored in the Wasatch fault zone. Ditto the San Andreas fault zone.
Getting out of Vegas seems a very good idea. But will you move to the Wasatch front, or somewhere else in the rockies?
The Savior warned about earthquakes in the last days, and something about difficulties commencing -- where?]

I am sure that there will be earthquakes since the Lord told His servants to shore up the foundations of the Tabernacle. Never the less I don’t think they will be strong enough to destroy Salt Lake Temple or the re-enforced Tabernacle. If someone can check and see what those buildings can withstand, that will probably be the worst type of earth quake we’ll see. In order to release energy building up in the faults you will need one big one, or a number of smaller ones. If the people are righteous there will be smaller ones. If the Saints become wicked, then one big one.

I am looking for a retirement home/retreat in the St George/Cedar City area. I like the climate and its small enough to miss the worst of the anarchy and big enough to be protected by its populace against marauders and large gangs.

OMD

joseph said:

we must all learn to make our food. Make our tools. Make our clothes. The time for learning is best before the need, not during the need.

This is a very important part of our preparations. Thanks for the reminder.

I'm a firm believer that God is in charge of all things, let the earthquakes, storms, anti-christ inspired wars and whatever else "supposed natural disaster" come, it's the wickedness of the people that concerns me most. The mobs and gangs of the cities will have a hard time reaching us, and we have sufficient resources to protect us from those few who live amongst us.

Very soon there's going to be a lot more people moving here, this is our Zerahemla, come what may! Utah is now the fastest growing state in the union, somebody is getting the message!

Were I forced to live outside this area because of a job or some other unfathomable reason, I'd have a diesel pick up hooked to a nice fifth wheel trailer with 50 to 100 gallons of extra fuel and pretty much all my food storage already to load and go. I've got all that anyway, it's all old, but I'm going nowhere. This town is my victory or my Waterloo, but to say I care which, isn't correct, I'd feel the winner either way.

Bob

I see a lot of anxiety in and out of the church and it only makes sense that we make preparations. How long have we been instructed to have a year supply of food. I doubt if twenty percent of church members have three months. How can we expect to be blessed with safety if we don't prepare like we've been told.

I'm guilty too, but I do have about eight months of food supply and I add to it as I can. I do have a 72 hour emergency survival kit that allows me to evacuate immediately if necessary, along with my family.

The gun grabbers don't like it but I buy an extra box of ammo ever month or so for my pistol, rifles and shotgun. Rumor has it that instead of taking our guns, just raise the tax on ammunition by 2 or 3 thousand percent.

The important thing to remember is that we have a prophet leading the Lords kingdom. We need to be alert, listen and heed the council we are given.

I don't live in the west but Zion is wherever the Saints are gathered together.

This may get deleted but I'm concerned enough to start a company to help. www.thewaytosurvive.org

We're planning to add a lot of things but we have a good start.

http://www.thewaytosurvive.org

Gman007. For myself, I think I'll try to be as invisible and under the radar as I can. Hopefully, TPTB will have no reason to come after me.

Yes, I have thought about this a lot. I've prayed about it a lot.

I posted my answer previously in regard to the Melchizedek Priesthood. It is my conviction that this will be the ONLY means of dealing with the trials we most certainly will experience.

I did hear a Christian minister refer to 2 Corinthans 10:3-6 as the means of overcoming the threats we face, but that passage only confirms what I said before.

[2 Corinthians 10:3-6
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Notice in the footnote for verse 4 the reference to Ephesians 6:10-14.

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

I read these scriptures as having literal application. We must be worthy of association with angels and with the power available to us from Heaven.

As Dr. Monteith often says, "We are involved in a spiritual war." Yes, indeed we are! It is the War begun in Heaven brought into the physical creation. Our work is to wage this war in mortality according to the Principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ; through His Holy Priesthood Power.

Buffalo-girl, if you remember what the early Saints in Paul’s time went through then you will realize what Ephesians 6:10-14 was referring too and what we may through in these Latter Days. I think you may be right that we may go through the horrendous persecutions that Paul and the early Saints suffered. We mustn’t forget what the Saints over the centuries have gone through. The righteous Nephites suffered at the hands of the Lamanites and dissident Nephites and how our pioneer ancestor’s persecution from the mobs. We are any different from them and must go through a refiner’s fire before the Savior comes.

Bob, I am not afraid for myself for what is coming. My children have been warned and are finally getting the message. One, I am worried about but there is not too much I can do now. Just be a good example, pray and hope her non-member husband will make the right decisions when the time comes. I have gone through my own trials and have a testimony strong enough to withstand what awaits. If we are prepared we shall not fear. We’ll know what to do and we will know where we are headed if we pass through the veil before it’s all over. I tell my wife she has nothing to worry about because I won’t resurrect until I grow to an age of a tree and then I’ll change in the twinkling of an eye.

Old Man

oops

Buffalo-girl, if you remember what the early Saints in Paul’s time went through then you will realize what Ephesians 6:10-14 was referring too and what we may through in these Latter Days. I think you may be right that we may go through the horrendous persecutions that Paul and the early Saints suffered. We mustn’t forget what the Saints over the centuries have gone through. The righteous Nephites suffered at the hands of the Lamanites and dissident Nephites and how our pioneer ancestor’s persecution from the mobs. We are any different from them and must go through a refiner’s fire before the Savior comes.

It may well be that many of us will suffer persecution and death because of wickedness - either our own or from those who have committed themselves to an evil plan. No doubt many innocents will suffer - even as they are now.

Nevertheless, the Work of the Lord must go forward. In order to preserve the necessary knowledge, records, skills, and Priesthood Keys it will be essential to protect the organization and the individuals who will carry the Work forward. We have been told in just about every Temple dedication of which I am aware that these sacred houses of worship will be refuges from the storm.

When we are worthy, we have many powers available to us which will serve to protect, defend, warn, rebuke, and/or guide. As a student at BYU many years ago the only useful bit of counsel I remember specifically in all those various Religion classes I took, was from a teacher whose name I cannot recall, "If miracles are not occuring daily in your life, you are doing something wrong."

I concur with his counsel.

Moses 6:7
7 Now this same Priesthood, which was in the beginning, shall be in the end of the world also.

5:00 CST - There is a law enforcement officer speaking with Dr. Monteith at this very moment on the issue of gun control legislation and violation of constitutional rights:

http://www.gcnlive.com/

Go to Listen Live. Dr. Monteith's show is on Network Three. Click on any of the players along Network 3.

There will be a replay of the interview beginning at 7:00 PM CST for 24 hours.

Go to school for criminal justice like I am so that you are not on the recieveing end of riot control. You should also be able to get plenty of guns, training, food, and gear.

You should also be able to restock your supplies when you go house to house. And it will all be legal under martial law.

Can you all provide me with some info or quotes on exactly why you believe martial law is coming and how you think it could be feasibly carried out in the U.S.? I know that I'm hijacking the thread but I'm asking out of pure ignorance and a sincere desire to know, so please forgive me.

I always thought this would be incredibly hard to implement in our country using native forces since the US military is outnumberedby the civpop about 300:1. Even if every local sheriff and deputy were compliant and subjected themselves to the fed ,these guys would be working round the clock to assure any kind of enforcement? Also sheer geography persuades me that it would be relatively easy to evade martial law in the U.S. It would seem more likely that localized martial law in larger cities or metropolitan corridors like the NY-DC area are plausible because you have so many people in such a tight spaces. From there , I would think it would be psyops like commerce control that forced the rest of the nation into compliance - not necessarily submission at gunpoint.

What is scarier to me is the idea of indoctrinating our youth and entire generations such that they become dependent on and agents of government - like the 1984 scenario or Gattica where little brothers are always watching. I think with the increasing social isolation, a natural byproduct of technological advances like the internet, people become less and less able to relate, to empathize, to dialogue with civility, etc... and more likely to be dogmatic and to abdicate thinking in favor of compliance to a zero tolerance social policies.

Anyhow - I'm just curious (and rambling
Cate